Associated Press
It was early on in last night's vice presidential debate -- indeed, it was after Paul Ryan's very first answer -- that Joe Biden went on the offensive.
BIDEN: With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey.
RADDATZ: And why is that so?
BIDEN: Because not a single thing he said is accurate.
And it was at that moment when it became clear that this week's debate would not be anything like last week's debate.
Perhaps the clearest indication of who won and lost came quickly on the heels of the event itself: the Democratic post-debate message was that Joe Biden scored a clear win; the Republican message was that Joe Biden was too mean to Paul Ryan. The former is a boast of success; the latter is an excuse for failure.
In the larger context, it's hard to overstate how much Democrats needed a shot in the arm like this. The surface-level goals of any vice presidential debate is for the candidates to demonstrate a capacity to step up in the event of a crisis, while defending their ticket's agenda and knocking their rivals' agenda. But for Biden, the overarching benefit was about the basic morale of his party with less than four weeks to go until Election Day: he wanted to give Democratic voters something to feel good about, and he did.
Note, for example, that the vice president referenced Mitt Romney's infamous "47 percent" video five times last night -- which is five more references than we heard in Denver last week.
The point is not that Ryan's performance was awful; it wasn't. Rather, Ryan was simply overpowered -- where Biden was on the offensive; Ryan was on the defensive. Where Biden was direct; Ryan was evasive. Where Biden was confident; Ryan was in over his head. This line from John Dickerson rings true: "There’s an old line attributed to Bill Clinton: It’s hard for the other guy to talk when your fist is in his mouth. Biden was up to his elbow."
CBS News did a poll of undecided voters who thought Biden won by a fairly large margin, but they also reached an even more interesting conclusion: whereas before the debate, these voters thought Ryan was better prepared to serve as an effective president, after the debate, the results flipped in Biden's favor.
Some of this, I suspect, is the result of lowered expectations -- for much of the country, the only time they see the vice president is when he's caught making some kind of goofy "gaffe." With that in mind, many Americans probably tuned in last night assuming they'd see a caricature. Instead, they saw an accomplished, extremely well prepared vice president and former senator take his young "friend" to school.
Ryan's biggest trouble came on issues, details, and substance, and I'll be fleshing many of those areas out as the morning progresses, but when it comes to an overall take on the event, I saw Joe Biden overwhelm the right-wing congressman, and it didn't appear close.
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Last night is exactly why Joe Biden is on the ticket. This is just what the president needed after his own less than stellar showing in Denver. Biden expert dismantled the radical and out of touch proposals put forth by the Romney-Ryan ticket -- all with a smile, of course. Voters needed to hear the truth and needed to understand the real choices in this election. Ryan was overwhelmed and out of his league. The "genius" showed just how clueless he really is when it comes to how this country works and what real Americans are experiencing. Biden has stopped the Mitt surge in its tracks. - progressive
But, but Mommy that mean old man busted my fantasy.
See what you have done Mr. Biden? You have poisoned the well of delusions with truth! Our republican base is not ready for reality and they will not ever be ready for the harsh truth you tried to deliver. I have a good mind to report you to the department of social services for this but we slashed funding for all those liberal socialistic programs in this state.
It made me wonder - Do I want a cranky, old, seventy-something President?
Maybe this is why this administration has had such great success working with those on the other side of the aisle in Congress to pass legislation that reflects the wishes and needs of all Americans.
"DownHere" must be Down South; because only a southern white man could possibly mangle the history of the last four years so thoroughly.
Go whine to Senator McConnell, whose ONLY priority was denying President Obama a second term. "Working with those on the other side of the aisle" my fat ass-- you can only do that when the mendacious swine on the other side of the aisle are ALSO willing to work.
FromDownHere...really? You know when this President first came in he TRIED to work with the other side and they turned their backs. He invited them to the WH and they refused to come. The Dems proposed legislation and ideas on legislation and invited their feedback and they stuck their heads in the sand. Then when things passed they whined about 'bipartisanship'. You should check your facts.
DownHere..Biden was born in 1951. Not even close to 70 something. He is not to blame for the GOP's refusal to work with a black president.
He did check his facts. Then he promptly ignored them. But here's the ironic part:
"Maybe this is why this administration has had such great success working with those on the other side of the aisle in Congress to pass legislation that reflects the wishes and needs of all Americans."
Oddly, without ANY help from the "other side of the aisle", the actual measures Obama has managed to push through are incredibly popular with Americans, as long as they're presented truthfully and not through the Republican prism.
?? VP Biden was born in 1942 - he will be 70 next month! But you're absolutely right that he is not to blame for the GOP's extreme intransigence to the point of treason to the suffering American people.
And Reagan was almost 70 when he was elected for his first term in 1980, so the point is...?
The Biden who was born in 1951 is Jill, not Joe. I will note that if one wishes to think in terms of age, there is not much a difference between Romney (age 65) and Biden (age 69, soon to be 70).
DownHere- 3 Republicans in his Cabinet, and many more in high posts. Republican bills on immigration, cap and trade, taxes, healthcare, and more. The President has been bipartisan from the get-go. His hand has been slapped away at every point, because GOP leaders bet on people not knowing better and blaming the President for what they were actually doing. Like you just did.
Wow, I really must have hit a nerve. I don't think I've ever seen a 46 vote comment.
So which comment really is to blame for the colon block in Congress? Was it McConnell's "My first priority is to make this a one term President" or was it Obama's "Hey we won, Get over it"? What Congressional actions are really to blame? Is it the Republican's filibuster of hundreds of Democratic bills or is it the shelving of hundreds of House passed Republican bills by the Democratic Senate Leader Harry Reid? Truth is every previous President has had to face the evil Devils of their opposing party, like Gingrich and Tip O'neal, and it is actually the job of every party Leader to do everything they can to get their party elected to the Grand Prize of US Presidency. The difference is every other President has found a way to make it work, and I suggest it is the job of the President to do just that. The Republicans, like Lucy of Peanuts, has pulled the ball out every time the President, like Charlie Brown, has attempted to kick the ball. But instead of Charlie Brown out smarting Lucy and convincing her to keep her finger on the ball Charlie Brown has his feelings hurt and will show Lucy by taking the game ball home so no one can play. Now the American citizens have been left to wrangle in the cold. So the question becomes does the President have the will and can set aside his ego long enough to produce the proper enema to relieve Congress constipation or is it time to try someone else for the sake of the country?
Neither Conservatives or Liberals would endorse any law, especially major legislation, that forces the will of one party on the whole and is passed through back room deals, arm twisting, fuzzy math budgets, procedural manipulations, and hidden content without even a single vote from their side, no matter how much they liked it.
Biden represents the old government Establishment and has been in the DC bubble for way too long. Obama and Biden, if re-elected, offer a future of Congressional gridlock, higher taxes, no national budget, trillion plus deficits, and a 20 plus trillion dollar debt left to be paid by our children and grandchildren. This does not serve the people. Will the Romney, Ryan ticket do much better? I doubt it, but I'm willing to try someone different and not reward irresponsible governing with my vote in hopes that these politicians will get the fact that if they don't perform they will be replaced and replaced again until we get effective people in office that represent the needs and wishes of the whole.
Someone is eager to go from the frying pan into the fire...isn't that special!
Ryan got schooled.
Initially, I thought the moderator's aggressive questioning on Lybia was a little over the top, and the conversation got bogged down and veered (As Biden indicated) into classified territory. I thought her initial questions skewed Right, and she was letting Ryan run way over time...Then Biden took control.
A little condescending, yes, but Ryan kept asking for it. The "Palin" shot was priceless. Raddatz bore down on Ryan over his numbers, and he looked weak. Nearing the end, Ryan's smirk had turned into into something of a grimace.
Biden's answers on abortion and faith were heartfelt, while Ryan came off as mechanical. During his closing arguments, Ryan looked like a stepford wife with a gun to her head...A wooden parrot marching forward to a doom of his own making.
I agree it seemed the wording of some of her questions were a little one-sided in the way she presented them, adding her own opinion. Joe didn't let her get away with it though, he went back and set her straight.
Oh largenose I couldn't agree more!! Ryan's closing argument was so rehearsed and mechanical, and I LOVED how Biden called him on his BS, it's about time!
"Biden's answers on abortion and faith were heartfelt, while Ryan came off as mechanical"
Ryan is the sort of Roman Catholic that conservative Protestants said John F. Kennedy was. Romney is the Mormon version of that.
"Ryan got schooled."
He was more than "schooled", Uncle Joe took that a$$ to the woodshed, worked it over, and then made Paulie-boy sit in his own mess! At times Ryan looked like he wanted to say "please, stop, but I love you" and at other times he looked like he was blinking back the tears! Uncle Joe stepped up and showed out, and I have a much greater respect for Martha Radditz - she steered the conversation and unlike the other moderator she did ask for more specifics!
Ryan had his butt handed to him and America, with a smile!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!
I agree with you on everything except Ryan's closing statement. I though Ryan made a far better closing statement than Biden (not that Biden's was bad). Ryan looked directly in the camera and had that genuine look of compassion on his face when he was delivering it. The words don't matter as much as the body language, and I thought the closing statement was one of the only areas where Ryan outperformed Biden. If facts actually mattered to the entire public, would this race be as close as it is now? Overall Biden crushed him after a slow start.
And Biden's statement on abortion was just as sincere and heart-felt in my opinion. He was also correct in his view where Ryan was not. Abortion is an unfortunate necessity that should be between a woman and her own conscience and physician NOT dictated by a law with vague religious "morality" as it's justification.
Ryan struck me as an elementary school boy with his hair slicked back and doing that weird flip thing--getting ready for his class picture. It was like mom just put in the pomade. Everything about him was rehearsed. It was so apparent he had all those prepared anecdotes. They were stale and far from heartfelt. Joe seemed more genuine and he exposed Ryan for what he is--short on substance and like the man he is running with--willing to say anything, flip flop on any issue if pandering means you might be able to pick up a few votes. There is no integrity on the GOP ticket.
Love your analogy, couldn't have said it better. I am STILL amazed at how many people just don't get it. But I am convinced that it is all about race and greed. I hope that the 47%ers got the message. There is no turning back for Robme, no matter how much he shouts that he is for 100% of the country. Liar....Liar.....Liar. And I am not even American (German) and I understood it all in plain English.
Sraleigh
That was exactly what I was thinking watching the debate last night. Little Paulie grammar school boy. I expected him to actually pout!
If being mean is what it takes then be mean. What's really mean are the policy's and plans that Romney and friends have in store for this Country. I just have to keep my mental image of Romney after the election is over. It's either Biff washing cars or Dan Akroyd wearing a Santa claus suit and hiding that big dead fish in his coat riding a bus. That works for me you can borrow it anytime or make up your own.
How fast Republicans cry and complain when you have a compassionate VP Joe Biden show and explain the facts. And how literally lacking Congressman Paul Ryan was. If a Republican politician had done what VP Joe Biden did, they would have been cheering and saying what a great guy and he or she did it right. VP Joe Biden won that debate all the way ignore those whining Republicans when they can dish it out, but can’t take when Republicans are finally put in their place as the power cravers, corrupt, arrogant, hypocrites, deceivers and liars they really are. Republicans are badly trying to put up a smoke screen of deceptions again, but again just shows how really pathetic they really are.
Well said Deb3596991! :D
The Democrat base finally got what they wanted, a reflection of themselves. Rude, entitled, angry, and dishonest.
Awwwww.......Poor widdle whinin' Ryan couldn't keep up with the big boys.
Time to go home.
@Shooter
Yeah right. Look in the mirror, buddy. Look. In. The. Mirror. To quote: "You lie!"
How much do you get paid to do this claptrap day in, day out? Has to get tiring, trolling every day, knowing full well you're full of fluff.
Full of Fluff? Methinks more like the output of a Bull's posterior.
awwe poor Shooter "got hiz we wittle freelings hurt by de bid bad man." I wish the GOP would grow up, I mean seriously, it's like they all forgot that Cheney was the rudest VP in modern history. And what is even more ironic, you people are criticizing Biden,for doing the exact same thing Mitt did during his debate. Mitt butt-in, interjected but instead of smiling, he used that self-entitled snob of a smirk he has. That The GOP try to pass off as a smile, when it's the most condescending smirk ever on a Presidential Candidate.
Secondly when Karl Rove,Reince Priebus and Ann Coulter are all talking about how Joe 'laughed too much", you know your side lost.
And Shooter you have what you want...a lying jerk that won't tell you what he's for.
Exactly Shooter. Biden looked and acted in a pathetic manner totally unbecoming a VP. Not Presidential at all. Acted more like one of the 3 stooges on laughing gas. When pushed on Libya and the murder of our ambassador and three others, Biden gave yet another unfounded false narrative on what happened. Last night, Joe Biden became this generations Sprio Agnew. A corrupt politician. But of course, after all it was just over a video on You Tube. Nobody asked for more security. The CIA fouled up here. That part I can ALMOST believe, the intelligence community headed by that moron James Clapper screwing that up. One got the impression that Biden was doing his best (overly nervous foolish behaviors) John Cleese as basil in Fawlty Towers.
Joe Biden could not get HIS facts straight about Libya.
His pointing and hand gestures and moving forwward at his questioner as well as his overly emotional displays and voice elecusion and constant smirking & laughing is a definate sign ( for those of us who investigate and interview crimes for a living) of false testimony.
Ryan, as clearly pointed out by CNN and other polling resources WON this debate. Joe Biden was a FOOL.
Only msnbc calls this one for Biden. Maddow and her phoney crew had the "talking points" all in a row before the debate ever started. Direct from the Obama Administration.
Ryan 48% Biden 44% CNN A universal opinion polling sample.
Shooter you really do reside in a delusional bubble. The people who have been rude and disrespectful for 4 years is the lying Republicans. Party before Country is their motto. Romney and Ryan have been called out repeatedly by fact checkers as liars. The only ones promoting hate, anger and are race baiting are the Republican Politicians and the Republican Religious Zealots.
As is to be expected, the trolls are busy spewing verbal vomit.
Why is it when a neocon puts up a troll response they either have terrible grammar, terrible spelling, or both. IrishPat7, you should really get either a dictionary or learn to use the spellcheck on your computer. You make yourself look stupid.
My guess is that they are paid trolls...
When your debate opponent has you so flummoxed that you’re spending time explaining what winter is, it might be a clue that you’re getting your ass handed to you.
Actually Pat, smirking and smiling are NOT definitive signs of lying. That is just one of the ways to interpret it. It can also mean that one is nervous, not taking the situation seriously, a reaction to the situation in disbelief, or simply a personality trait.
Secondly if we take your assumption as completely true. That would mean that Mitt and Paul were also lying during their debates. Because they both also laughed and smirked, Mitt smirked for most of his quite frankly.
Thirdly the CNN Poll was conducted with a sample of already COMMITTED Voters, not likely or swing voters. But those who have already made up their minds. Completely different sample pool. 48-44 is also within their +/-5 margin of error, and after CNN admittedly said that they polled more self identified Rep than Dems. Rep (34%) Dems (31%) Indep (34%).
Fourthly even Reince Priebus first statement about the debate said that Biden hit all of his talking points, then said he laughed too much. Anyone who fallows politics knows, when one side is overly criticizing "style points" you lost on substance.
- From the fine print under the CNN Poll.
SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.
Its so amusing how many people are talking about this poll but not mentioning that bit.
Blanks is right....about the angry part. The rude, entitled and dishonest sounds more like Mitt than Joe
Jamelle Bouie said it best over at American Prospect. “This is like the Avengers, when the Hulk grabbed Loki and smashed him on the floor.”
For your pleasure, that scene.
This will make you feel even better....
Sorry - Here's the /s1078.photobucket.com/albums/w498/tesshera/?action=view¤t=Ryan_Loki.jpg" target="_blank">"> link
Shooter...just so you know...that's exactly what we Democrats have believed about Republicans since Bush's day and age. So, you can think we're angry, entitled and dishonest. Your party can tout religious myth and belief all day every day and it doesn't make it true or based in any kind of fact. However, when you get so old you can't take care of yourself or when something really bad happens in your life and you need help...Just remember, it will be my party that provides the laws that will enable you to pick yourself back up. Have a good day. :)
Laugh too much?! How could anyone not laugh at the stuff Ryan was spewing. It was hilarious bunch of obvious lies.
How pathetic and hypocritical that the right think Joe was disrespectful after the appallingly disrespectful treatment by Romney of President Obama and Jim Lehrer barely a week ago. I think Joe was just flabbergasted by the bullcra- I mean malarkey coming out of Ryan's mouth. His reactions were real, natural, and understandable.
And if anyone really thinks that Ryan has the chops to be VP just because he can spout some obviously well-rehearsed lines about the fighting season in Afghanistan, they have downed the malarkey and are drunk on essence of excrement.
As Joe said, "Trust your instincts on this one." Biden 2016.
Thank you so much, MarloG. Finally someone mentions the leader of interruption and breaker of rules, not to mention the disrespecter of the President of the United States.
For the GOP to start whining about the Vice President's behavior during the debate after the way their candidate over ran the moderator, the rules and the President last week is absolutely ludicrous. They were floating on clouds over the idea that Romney could Gish Gallop like Attila the Hun (and in the opinion of some won the debate). Now when the Vice president does nothing more that stop the lies midstream, they as usual, pull out their double standard garbage. The nice thing is that they now know what we were thinking and feeling last week and I'm tickled pink that they have the experience. I can really resonate with the woman that said she wanted to punch Vice-President Biden. I wanted to not only punch Gish Romney in the face, I wanted to step on his face when he was lying on the floor. What is bad about that is that I really don't believe violence is ever appropriate.
Again, thank you, Marlo. Great post, great point!!!!!!!
When Peggy Noonan calls it a draw, you know that's a good night for the Democrats.
I had the same thought...strange how one party reacts with analysis and a reality check (ok, for some, overanalysis and hand-wringing) and one reacts with total denial and a retreat into the bubble.
Wonder what Jack Welch (or any of the other OWMOT) will whine about today regarding the decline in unemployment claims. Got to be some kind of plot against Truth, Justice, and The American Way.
I would say Joe hit an in the park home run.
You see those frown and stress lines sticking right out of Congressman Ryan's head that he was so exposed as the liar he really is plus that deer in the headlights was just too good. VP Joe Biden so exposed Ryan for what he really is a delusional fantasy land boy brought into reality. Time to wake up to reality Congressman Ryan.
Also, I thought Raddatz wasn't supposed to call Ryan "Congressman," but she did it repeatedly. Which was awesome. After all, he IS a congressman.
.....and not a very good one. Look at his home district in Wisconsin,see how pathetic he actually is!
Argh, my cousin stated something to the tune of "Oh goody, she kept them both accountable about the mudslinging" and I threw up a little.. Amercians (including my cousin, bless her heart..) are "stupider" than I thought. I guess she did not realize that all of her fair minded bull@!$%# was actually mass produced by all media outlets on a scale rivaling the chicken and beef industries. More "both sides do it" horseshet for the easily deluded.. Really, I have got to move regardless of how this "election cycle" turns out. I wonder if I can rent a seat on a Russian space vehicle? I might as well be in orbit..
Cpt. Buzzkill
Sounds like a really good idea for you. Especially since you are so superior to the rest of the country.
I'm not sure what you are looking for in this country, but obviously you aren't finding it. Fortunately, in this country, you are allowed to leave any time you choose. I'm not sure they would let you on the Russian space vehicle (security, you know) but they would probably be willing to let you in to Russia. I sure hope you like it there, because I hear leaving can be difficult.
Maybe you can find some "smarter? people there.
Oh goody, another sanctimonious hyper-nationalist!
Are parting gifts advisable? I'm trying to learn to be more sensitive in gesture.
Seems to me like what we have here is a failure to communicate. Trollop is a regular (and IMO generally progressive) commenter on this blog, and I think the main point she's making here is directed at the well-known "both sides do it" fallacy which it sounds like her cousin was falling into (to Trollop's evident considerable frustration).
gramapoetmn-4177227 has also commented here numerous times before and, from those comments (and the others you can see on her vine "homepage") is also generally progressive in her views. I think she may have just misunderstood Trollop's frustrated lament about our national state of affairs (I'm pretty sure that Trollop wasn't necessarily intending her travel plans to be understood literally).
I would think that the same gramapoetmn-4177227 who posted the following, just over a week ago:
Obama, Romney face off in presidential debate - Comment #157.1
might be more empathetic (than the above series of comments would suggest) to Trollop's momentary urge to leave our country by less lethal means. Of course, I'm also pretty sure (at least, I certainly hope) that gramapoetmn-4177227 didn't really mean that to be taken literally.
You know, I bet if you kids just got together and talked things out, you could even end up being friends... :D
Gee, I didn't even know that I had a "homepage". I'm going to have to look it up. I also didn't think my words were memorable enough for anyone to remember them enough to go back a week to resurrect them. Thank you for the realization, Pretzelogic, I feel honored.
The fact of my statement is that I did mean the lethal method literally. I have no intention of living in this great country to spend my declining years living in increasing penury and failing health, watching the Republicans dismantle our democratic system. If you think for one second that they won't do the same thing nationally that they have been doing in the states that they control, you haven't been listening to Newt Gingrich. Their intent is to make sure that the Democratic Party is never going to have a chance to win another election, and given the opportunity they will not hesitate to institute the Big Brother program on Day 2. (They are going to be too busy on Day 1 dismantling Obamacare, instituting the legislation of overturning Roe v. Wade, increasing taxes on the middle class and poor, etc.)
I am sorry if I misunderstood Trollop, and I apologize for that. The small difference between our positions is that the posting sounded like wanting to get out while the shameful politics currently in vogue are in process, while I will wait to see if the country can be bamboozled into voting these inveterate liars into office. At my age, I don't think anywhere else is better than what this country has been for my life up to this day.
Like many seniors, I am feeling dreadfully vulnerable to what is being said, threatened and proposed that bodes badly for those of us who are now considered "irresponsible and useless". I have worked and paid taxes (and still do) all my life or at least since I was 15 when I had my first job. I supported my 3 sons through my jobs, thanks to my beloved mother who cared for them while I worked. I have had to continue to help my 2 disabled sons and therefore am still working and still having Social Security deducted from my wages. Yet, all that means nothing to the GOP. I'm old, I have used up my value to the country, I am ready for the ash heap, because I am now a drag on the budget.
Yes, I am a liberal, I believe we have a responsible to help those who need help, I believe we have no right to dictate to others what they can do with their lives or their bodies, I believe we were truly all created equal whether in color, sexual orientation, "class" or belief. I believe the Christians (the real ones), the Muslims, the Buddhists, the Jews, the Native Americans all have a right to practice their beliefs freely. And perhaps more shameful in this current campaign, I believe that it is incumbent on those who want to run this country or stand for office have a duty and responsibility to tell the truth. I believe that like any employer, we have a right to expect an employee to be honest as to intent, truthful about their past, straight forward about what they intend to do on their jobs and respectful of their opponents. I also believe that lying, distortion, misinformation and hate are more than adequate reasons to clearly show disdain and a lack of respect for such behavior.
Sorry, as usual, I talk too much. Thank you again, Pretzelogic and I apologize again, Trollop, if I misunderstood.
In 2008, I thought Biden was a really risky, off-the-wall pick for VP. Last night proved -- again -- just how smart Obama is.
Joe Biden rules.
I find that amazing. I LOVE Joe Biden and have for years. The 'gaffe' machine is a media exaggeration of Joe...they always have to stereotype people. Joe has always been a passionate defender of the middle class.
Joe had some great deliberate and well studied "gaffes" last night. Gotta love him.
"When a successful person says 'Nobody helped me,' what they're really saying is 'Don't expect me to do anything for anyone else.'
...
"Can we place our trust in the face of capitalism (e.g. - the Republican ticket) whose fortune derived through benefit from things that need fixing now?"
Read more at
http://lifeamongtheordinary.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-face-of-capitalism-part-three.html
Ryan was a much easier opponent than Romney, as Ryan actually believes what he says. He is wrong, but at least he believes the bat guano he spews. Romney says whatever is necessary at a particular moment to achieve an intended result. A moving target like Romney is incredibly hard to prepare for because you never know what he will say. Our President will need a much more forceful and far less respectful approach to the lack of facts used by the "Great Prevaricator" if he intends to make an impact. Unfortunately, the very respect and seriousness with which our President treats Romney is a perceived validity of the statements Romney makes. From all reports, the Republicans loathed the smiles and chuckling that Biden displayed towards Ryan last night, and they should have. It was the simplest and most straight forward way to express both the ridiculousness and lack of substance of Ryan's positions. I hope our President learned that lesson.
No, he doesn't believe what he says at all, except maybe about abortion. Unless he's just actually stupid.
He's constantly crying about debt and deficits, yet he didn't oppose a single dollar of debt or deficit spending under GWB.
So either he's a liar, or he has what Orwell called doublethink-the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct. Which is a little nuts.
People mistake Obamas treating people with dignity and respect as a weakness. He didn't lower himself to Romney's level and I appreciated it.
BUT....there is a way to call someone a liar in a respectful way and I sure hope Obama figures it out.
I was happy to hear the abortion question and the way it was phrased. I think all politicians who are anti-women should be asked why would a woman get an abortion but there are several other questions that should also be asked. Who will support the woman during pregnacy? How acountalbe will the sire be held? Who will support the child? Why do they want government out of business but want to dictate my private life? No bc no abortions no way.
I was tense all week waiting for the VP debate - like many of my fellow Obama supporters, I was devastated by his debate performance last week and then Obama started loosing ground in the polls... Joe Biden typified what I love about the Democratic party, an honest and heartfelt philosophy of caring, respect for every individual - as the President says "a fair shot and a fair shake"! I'm so glad, Joe was Joe!
Can we please expunge the phrase "With all due respect" from the English language?
Ryan deserves none at all- and that's the "respect" he got from the VP!
In this case, all the respect that's due is NONE.
Details are hard to ignore when your opponent knows them and you don't. or choose to withhold them because they may cause you problems with the electorate. Vice President Biden was forceful and kind as he eviscerated Mr. Ryan. I love the quote from Esquire by Charles Pierce. "You know the difference between Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan? Lipstick.
Four years ago the American people chose Joe, not Sarah because she was not qualified to be a heartbeat away from being the President of the United States. The American people saw last night, again, that Joe Biden IS qualified, and Paul Ryan, is not.
There is a lot of talk on the Republican side about Joe's smiling and laughing, but I had the impression that the smiling was Joe being Joe. He was being genuine and the laughing was not an act. I agree that Ryan didn't commit a gaffe but that makes Joe's victory all the more important. Joe stood like a rock and gave back better than he got.
The GOP has now switched it to 'rude' and 'manic'...lovely. Especially when it comes from that snarky liar, Preibus.
Will someone tell me where the guy Preibus came from. He is a scary dude.
I have renamed him Rancid Pria pus. Fits, dontcha think??
I've heard him called "Rancid Pubis". How disrespectful (and funny)!
As John Fugelsang enjoys pointing out, if you remove each of the vowels from his name, Reince Preibus becomes "RNC PR BS".
It's funny 'cause it's true...
Get Enraged and Engaged:
Mooch the Vote 2012!
;-)
only idiots who had fallen for the MSM's media portrayal of Eddie Munster Ryan as ' serious' would think he's qualified to be President.
Love that reference! Maybe SNL will have their Ryan impersonator dress up as Eddie Munster this Saturday (or perhaps for the Halloween episode in two weeks).
Vice President Biden took a little boy to school and showed him that it takes real men to the job of President and Vice President and Lying Ryan and Bumbling Romney are not up for the job
I cannot imagine either Ryan or Romney dealing with Putin. Vlad knows exactly who these two clowns are. By contrast, President Obama forces Putin to think. I would prefer any disagreements between Russia and the US be handled by the President.
Mitt is succeeding at an incredible sleight-of-hand. By serially lying on an unprecedented scale, he has distracted anyone who would hold him to account, whether Democrats or the "press" from his real Achilles heel: his taxes. He succeeded in stonewalling the issue of his taxes when he ran for Governor, and he's trying to do it again. Voters, and especially his base are very cynical about lying politicians, and he thinks he's safe on that account. He has tiptoed around the tax laws of the country he wants to govern...
Biden did nothing Romney didn't do last week. the difference - Romney interrupted and contradicted with the air of a CEO at a board meeting who gets to say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, because he's the boss, dammit; whereas Biden did so in the manner of a grandfather being teased by his grandkids ("Aw, come on, Paulie, that's not true, isit?")
I've admired Joe Biden since the Iran-Contra hearings. He's always said what he means and means what he says, even when he's guilty of "gaffes" (speaking "inelegantly" as Romney would put it). Last night he was outstanding! Funny how the Republicans lauded Romney for being "assertive" and criticize Biden for being "rude". Sour grapes.
I think that Biden was shooting from the hip and Ryan's reliance on talking points (zone defense) was not capable of shutting down his blitz. Another fact that goes against Ryan is that he was 2 years old when Biden became a senator. If memory serves, Palin came up against the same lack of experience claim when she was campaigning. It will be interesting to see how or if Ryan can combat the negatives stacked against him.
Biden was obnoxious. Like a mean old man. Condenscending. Ryan was cool and proved he has what it takes to be VP or if necessary the President of the USA. Can you say that about Biden?
Perfectly well said Bob Both
Thank You
Two residents of Bizarro World.
If "coolness" and not being obnoxious is your criteria, Obama kicked Rmoney's butt.
Sorry, Vice President Biden was not obnoxious, and showed exactly why he is and should continue to be Vice President. Pinocchio Jr and his running mate Pinocchio Sr are the liars. The only thing Paul Ryan proved last night was that he is not ready to be Vice President and that he and his running mate pander to whomever they are addressing. They have one set of convictions when talking to Extreme Right Republicans, another set of convictions when speaking to moderates and a third when trying to reach Independents.
"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son."
(Not that you're fat or drunk-- but as evidenced by this comment, boy you sure are stupid.)
When you are sitting only a few feet from a guy who is lying every time he opens his mouth, smiling and shaking your head is pretty darn polite.
I do think the sit-down style makes it feel more like a Sunday talk show than a formal debate, and both acted appropriately.
I never liked the two-minute, one-minute drill type of debates, but last week's format was too open-ended, and Lehrer and Obama wer too polite for too long. The town hall format on Tuesday will be much better for countering Romney's lies.
Romney was a bully and proved that he doesn't have to follow the rules. Are those traits you want in a president?
Obnoxious would have been Biden saying, "You are a liar, little boy!"
Yes, I sure can say that Biden is far more qualified to be Vice President or President than Paulie Ryan ever will be.
If nothing else, Vice President Biden wouldn't have to stop important meetings to run to the biffy from sucking on his water glass every two seconds. Seriously, you cannot run a country on the basis of memorized lines, distorted facts, false positions or an inability to understand 99% of the people you are leading.
The present administration has managed to restore our standing on the world stage by not playing cowboy politics. We truly cannot afford to lose that standing again by electing a group that has no comprehension or desire to understand people for whom greed is not their primary priority.
Thank God for the decency and strength of Joe Biden to stand up to the kid and call out his crap.