Associated Press
It was early on in last night's vice presidential debate -- indeed, it was after Paul Ryan's very first answer -- that Joe Biden went on the offensive.
BIDEN: With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey.
RADDATZ: And why is that so?
BIDEN: Because not a single thing he said is accurate.
And it was at that moment when it became clear that this week's debate would not be anything like last week's debate.
Perhaps the clearest indication of who won and lost came quickly on the heels of the event itself: the Democratic post-debate message was that Joe Biden scored a clear win; the Republican message was that Joe Biden was too mean to Paul Ryan. The former is a boast of success; the latter is an excuse for failure.
In the larger context, it's hard to overstate how much Democrats needed a shot in the arm like this. The surface-level goals of any vice presidential debate is for the candidates to demonstrate a capacity to step up in the event of a crisis, while defending their ticket's agenda and knocking their rivals' agenda. But for Biden, the overarching benefit was about the basic morale of his party with less than four weeks to go until Election Day: he wanted to give Democratic voters something to feel good about, and he did.
Note, for example, that the vice president referenced Mitt Romney's infamous "47 percent" video five times last night -- which is five more references than we heard in Denver last week.
The point is not that Ryan's performance was awful; it wasn't. Rather, Ryan was simply overpowered -- where Biden was on the offensive; Ryan was on the defensive. Where Biden was direct; Ryan was evasive. Where Biden was confident; Ryan was in over his head. This line from John Dickerson rings true: "There’s an old line attributed to Bill Clinton: It’s hard for the other guy to talk when your fist is in his mouth. Biden was up to his elbow."
CBS News did a poll of undecided voters who thought Biden won by a fairly large margin, but they also reached an even more interesting conclusion: whereas before the debate, these voters thought Ryan was better prepared to serve as an effective president, after the debate, the results flipped in Biden's favor.
Some of this, I suspect, is the result of lowered expectations -- for much of the country, the only time they see the vice president is when he's caught making some kind of goofy "gaffe." With that in mind, many Americans probably tuned in last night assuming they'd see a caricature. Instead, they saw an accomplished, extremely well prepared vice president and former senator take his young "friend" to school.
Ryan's biggest trouble came on issues, details, and substance, and I'll be fleshing many of those areas out as the morning progresses, but when it comes to an overall take on the event, I saw Joe Biden overwhelm the right-wing congressman, and it didn't appear close.
Leave a Comment:
The reason Romney still has any chance at all is that the public has such a short attn span. We need a 30 second ad illustrating the republican obstructionism over the last 4 yrs.
I think that should have been FRONT PAGE news since it was discovered. Sedition is defined as " attempting to overthrow a duly elected President". This was traitorous by lyin ryan and the cabal who met in secret to sign a secret pledge. Signing that pledge to mcconnell and norquist is traitorous and derelection of duty. They were voted in ' by the people' and instead swore alliegence to serve private masters.
Paul S Campbell....your comment made my morning! SO EXACTLY RIGHT!
It was nice to see someone shove Romney/Ryan lies down Ryan's mouth. Biden did an excellent job of countering Ryan's statements but in the final analysis it's up to Obama to win or lose the election for the team. If Obama can't win by proving how Romney/Ryan want to do away with Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, etc then he doesn't deserve to win. The real losers if Romney/Ryan win are people like myself who are receiving Social Security retirement benefits and are covered by Medicare. At the end of the day this is what is really at stake; politicians jabbing at each other is just the warmup to the main event-the election.
Joe Biden is the real deal and he demonstrated that last night. Paul Ryan is a plastic phony, which he also demonstrated last night. He was just oozing phoniness all over the place.
Joe Biden showed last night that Vice-President choices matter.
If over the next four years (for example) if for some reason our President becomes incapacitated or deceased and an unforeseen transistion is required, who would be more able to step in and maintain the security of the Nation.
When a VP is asked to step in as acting President, like GHW Bush did for Reagan, his first and foremost qualification should be foreign policy and national security expertise because it is at that moment, our nation is most vulnerable. It is an absolute necessity for the VP to know who is most likely to take advantage of the opportunities made available during such a time of chaos.
In these two cases, it is undenibale that VP Biden is ready at a moment's notice to step in and take over the national security issues,..... Paul Ryan, not so much. It was only 18 months ago that Paul Ryan was making magazine covers proudly labeling himself as a "Young Gun". Now he wants us to believe he's morphed into Vice Presidental material in just over the last year and a half.
I've heard all the morning chatter from the righties about how VP Biden was mean and rude to the young Congressman, but I would point out that those feelings come with losing and needing an excuse. Everybody knew Joe Biden was coming after Congressman Ryan. Righties said he couldn't do it.
How do we know who won? Both partys are talking about Joe Biden this morning. Any mention of Paul Ryan is done so in a consulting tone, or "pity" if you will.
Paul Ryan is playing in the big leagues now, and that's a lot more demanding than being a hedge fund bill writing Congressman for hire in some plush office in DC.
The difference in these two men was on display last night. People who feel freaked out by Smokin' Joe's confidence should pause for a moment and ask themselves this question,...
"If we were to find ourselves in a state of transition from VP to President, who would the terrorists around the world feel more insecure about dealing with, our current no BS straight forward speaking Vice-President ..... or the cute guy who you feel sorry for this morning?"
America won the debate last night
Last night I viewed Ryan as Peyton Manning in 1998. Manning was 1-15 his first year…but it is Peyton Manning. This guy will be a force the dems will have to deal with for the next 20 years. If you don’t think so…can any ANY VP candidate do that well verse a sitting VP in a debate? The answer is absolutely not. So, in that regard, Ryan’s
performance was unprecedented. I saw CNN…a middle-left outlet giving Ryan a 48-44 victory. Biden got his base excited again…the right is calling him disrespectful…but I don’t think anyone is going to switch votes on those two sides. The key is the middle…how did they see it? Had a neighbor over, center left guy who voted for Obama last time…this time he is either not voting or voting for Obama. My friend said, 30 minutes into it, “I mean Joe is Joe, but does he know there is a split screen, this is not coming off well.” I also think of other VP debates, or any debates in general…does anyone ever remember what was said? Our subconscious of viewing demeanor and body language is incredibly perceptive and carries as much, maybe more weight than what is verbally said. So, who knows. Left got what they wanted, laughing at right views
to stop the bleeding from the last debate…right got their young rock star
holding his own like no other VP candidate in history…but the question is how
the middle saw it. Since I’m center-right, my friend is center-left…and we both saw Biden’s demeanor not coming off great…he answered better...maybe by a little bit…but his demeanor lessened the impact. Regardless…nobody changed their mind last night. Scoring in the debates, 14-3 first quarter, 14-5 second quarter (Biden got a safety and
good defense)….halftime. Obama making the adjustments and getting the ball first next half. This is going to come down to the last play in the game.
Let's all agree on one thing shall we?! Last night wasn't about getting the "Undecided Voter" votes..who the hell is still undecided anyway?!
No, last night was about firing up our bases. After Obama's dismal debate last week people were getting nervous and Rachel hit the nail on the head, Democrats needed a shot in the arm and boy, did we get it!
Joe Biden came out swinging after the bell and as soon as I heard him call Ryan's BS for what it was/is, MALARKEY, I knew it was going to be a knockout kind of fight. FINALLY! Finally someone had the balls to stand up to Romney/Ryan and say "Yanno what? You're full of @!$%#!" Romney/Ryan has been spewed whatever they can possibly think of to win the election and no one has been saying diddley squat about it, for years Democrats have been letting the GOP steamroll all over them and just taking it.
Joe Biden made Ryan look like the inexperienced child he is. All Ryan did was parrot Romney like a trained little monkey, it was like listening to a broken record. I LOVED that Biden was smiling and chuckling at Ryan, it made my heart smile, because you know in his head he is thinking like we are, "What the @!$%# are you talking about bro?"
Fact checkers from the debate give the nod to the VP who told less whoppers than Ryan, and he was actually able to still stick it to Ryan anyway. Biden said that he and the Pres were unaware that extra security was asked for in Bengazi, but the State Dept was made aware of the request and it was denied. BUT Ryan voted to cut security so Biden was correct in lumping him in with that.
Abortion/Closing Statements- I felt it was inappropriate to ask the question about their religion. There is supposed to be a SEPARATION between Church and State in this country although we all know that when it comes to the GOP, they govern with their bible in their hand. After I heard their answers though, I felt a bit better about it. Biden said what his believes shouldn't be imposed on people, that he had no right to tell anyone what to do with their own bodies, whilst Ryan came across as the Theocratic tea bagger he is, and flat out said that if they got elected, they were going to ban abortions. How interesting that 2 men feel that they have the right to tell people, especially WOMEN, what they can and can't do. I don't think so buddy.
Biden's closing argument came off as heartfelt and sincere, while Ryan pandered and puppeted the well know, same 'ol GOP rhetoric and looked stiff and over-rehearsed.
Who won the fight? Biden, by KO. OK Obama, now it's your turn. I want you to fire me up, let's do this.
Love your observations. One thing to add, Biden also called Ryan out about the Republican agenda for continued WAR on the middle east.
"You're so full of ..." was the top line of the night. I was perplexed that VP Biden's comment didn't recieve any attention from the media last night. I thought that one single comment summed up the entire Romney campaign.
Good catch on your part.
The religion question was appropriate. It showed clearly that Biden believes in seperation of church and state while Ryan does not. I have read critiques of the question as an abortion question in religious framing. I think it is more appropriately described as a religion question framed by abortion.
Did anyone count how many times Ryan did his Google Eyes thing. I saw it only once on the abortion question, but I was distracted by others in my living room yelling at the tv. Ryan thinks his Google Eyes thing makes him look sincere, but obviously his campaign told him "don't go pop eyed on us everybody knows you are lieing then". Ryan also has another "tell" when he is lieing he twiches his left shoulder. He was working on that last night too. I only saw it once.
I was more concerned about Ryan trying to drown himself last night ... hahahaha ... it seemed to me like everytime Joe would call him out on a lie, Ryan took to the water.
We noticed it too! Really seemed to be nervousness. Can you imagine what SNL will do with the water drinking!
I don't know about SNL, but The Cycle group really played with that today.
Funny to watch and they were having so much fun with it.
The Republicans will whine about this one but it wasn't even a close match. Ryan is SO unprepared for much of anything and the country saw that clearly. However, people don't vote for the VP as much as they vote for POTUS. Biden at least showed clearly the tissue of lies upon which the entire Republican platform is built. Hopefully, even the less educated got the message last night.
Biden washed the "malarkey" out of Ryan's mouth!
Maybe that's why Ryan was drinking so much water!
Biden was great! His smiling was spontaneous and clearly worked to show Ryan was lying! Also what's with all the water Ryan was drinking!!! We couldn't help but notice that it seemed to be a nervous habit.
Just a little free advice to our young, inexperienced republican candidate friends: Do not bring up Jack Kennedy in a debate. Don't do it. Don't even think about it. Terra prohibito.
Biden has always been outstanding in all his undertakings. No difference here. He wiped the floor with the big dumb cluck from WI.
The debate aired for me at 02:00h and therefore, I could not watch it live, if it was even on a cable channel here. I live in Switzerland and I just finished watching the video.
I must be honest, it was difficult to watch. It is clear now that the Romney/Ryan ticket thinks that we are all imbecils with late-stage Alzheimers. The number of falsehoods and misrepresentation spewing from the mouth of Ryan were preponderous in their scope and size. There were times when I had to pause the feed and walk away for a while but I made the sacrifice of returning later and resuming from where I paused it. Ryan was pretty hard to take.
The problem is not with where Biden failed to counter all of Ryan's voluminous spew (it is difficult to drink from a firehose) it is with what I clearly remember of historical fact and Ryan's version of history is seriously at odds with that.
There is one phrase that Ryan used repeatedly that could more correctly be attributed to his own campaign.
Would have liked to hear about Mr Romney's statement from the first debate.
OF Course, you CAN"T have FREE MARKET without REGULATIONS.
Wasn't ANTI Regulations their platform.
Will this flip flopping get him on dancing with the stars. if it would get him the presidency, he would choose Ryan for platform. So them your chest Pual.
I think it is very important for MSNBC to stress what VP Biden said regarding abortion. Individuals may be opposed to choice, but they have no right as an individuals or as part of the government to impose their beliefs on anyone else or restrict a person's right to choose. It is between the women, her significant other, her doctor and possibly her family, depending on her age. Goverment has no right to interfere. I don't want to live in a theocracy. What's happened to separation of church and state?
It's funny to see the reversed comments on this debate re: Biden's rudeness. When Romney was interrupting it was "showing force and knowledge", when Biden does it (either with smiles or whatever), it is "rudeness." Biden was showing what he thinks of "boy wonder" Ryan lying and lying and continuing to lie. Again Ryan had no specifics. He is truly a lap dog. I don't want him anywhere near the White House. Even Congress is too close for this person. I liked Ryan's answer to the abortion question, finally, he said (not so much in direct words - both Romney and him never use direct words), that they would fight to make abortion illegal. This guy needs to go back to Wisc. where he belongs - somewhere in the back woods.
VP Biden stepped into the ring knowing what he must do, and he followed through.
However lacking we found the President's retort to Romney's rude, two-faced round-a-bout on policy positions, evasive maneuvers, and lies; we all know the right wing would have raised a hissy fit if the President (as a black man) had called him out harshly on these during the first debate.
Romney made it necessary for Biden to call Ryan out IMMEDIATELY during the VP debate with facts and clear party ideological differences. Joe Biden landed serious blows to Romney's evasive tax plan, his ineptness on foreign policy, the radical RW's planned state assault on women's constitutionally protected reproductive rights, and the manipulated definition of "small business". (BTW - Thanks to the Republicans in 2010, Billion dollar corporations are STILL deceptively claiming "small business" status to take government contracts away from America's legitimate small businesses.)
If the Romney ticket thought the Democrat's higher understanding of professional and respectful values were forever going to allow the RW to ride on their rude, evasive, and LYING ways, they're in for a wake up call. It's time to backburn.
I don't give a *%#! how polished a used car salesman's pitch is, I want the freakin CARFAX !!!
I forgot...
Republicans, KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY FUTURE MEDICARE and SOCIAL SECURITY ! I'm saving up for a taser modified cane if necessary, and I forecast I wont be afraid to use it in my old age.
One very important point to take from last night's medicare discussion is that Paul Ryan made it very clear, perhaps unintentionally, that under his and Romney's plan an 80 year old senior citizen will indeed be given a voucher to use to attempt to find an insurance company who will insure that person.
So, you're 80 and you got a RomneyCare Insurance Coupon for $8,000 and two pre-existing conditions. Those pre-existing conditions will matter because ObamaCare will have been repealled, leaving services and costs back in the hands of the insurance companies.
Add the fact that Romney has already declared he would reduce regulations, you can rest assured that insurance companies will be even more deregulated than ever before.
I was intrigued by VP Biden's example of what privatizing medicare would look like. He pointed out that in 2005, GW Bush and Paul Ryan was proposing privatizing Social Security, remember that? Had that plan to bet your retirement future on Wall Street been implimented in 2005, it would have met the same demise as home mortgages, 401k's, and personal investment accounts when the markets crashed in 2008-09.
It would all be gone now.
I remember trying to help my mother fill out all the doctor's forms and go through medicare forms for her. What a HORROR that robme /lyin ryan would expect an elderly person to be able to search for an insurance company , compare policies, ask the right questions ( perhaps with sight or hearing impairments) and try to wade through all the paperwork. They know it, they just don't care! Go to an emergency room is robme's answer. I say you go to the emergency room and get the hell out of this election process you lying scumbag. You are not going to save your country club and yacht club buddies on the back of our elderly and poor! Privatizing Social Security would have resulted in WALL STREET HOODS(Bain) and thieves raiding and ruining the Soc .Sec. trust. OBAMA/BIDEN
Have I missed anyone else notice how many times Biden had to interrupt Ryan to explain the real facts, that he told it from a position of being in the room. He knew what happened because he was there. He sounded informed and presidential. He smiled a lot when Ryan misspoke the facts. Why are republicans so troubled about the # of times he interrupted Ryan, that is what Romney did.
All I have to say is - Biden KICKED BUTT last night!
Joe gave the fake congressman a Master Class in statesmanship.
Vice Pres. Biden WON with facts over lies. He called lyinRyan out. When asked for FACTS , lyin ryan couldn't produce. He is full of distortions and outright lies. This lyin ryan was one of the traitors meeting in secret to swear alliegence to mcconnell and obstruct congress for 4 years. This snake took part in sedition against a duly elected President of the United States. Why isn't this being pointed out on the front pages everyday? lyin ryan also signed a pledge to a scumbag lobbyist . Why didn't he go about doing what he was elected to do BY THE PEOPLE? Signing pledges to norquist and agreeing to sedition with mitch mcconnell. This is NOT acceptable. We , the people, will NOT have our government taken over by traitors to the American people.
Ryan was pushing and swinging for Joe Biden's midsection while the V.P. simply held out his arm and planted his hand on his Eddie Munster forehead. Ryan only connected with air.
What I loved about Joe last night was he actually verbalized, and visually showed, the things that so many of us have been saying to our computer and TV screens for a veeeeery long time!!
My husband had a class during the debate, and asked me how it went when he got home. I said, "the Democratic Party has cajones, and they are named 'Joe Biden'".
I also told him the new synonym for "bs" is "malarky"! Loved it.