Associated Press
For much of the campaign, Mitt Romney seemed to forget that the United States is still fighting a war in Afghanistan, culminating in his convention speech which inexplicably ignored the war and American troops altogether.
Last night, we were reminded of why the Republican ticket says so little about the conflict: they haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about. In reference to Paul Ryan, Charles P. Pierce wrote overnight, "He was more lost in Afghanistan than the Russian army ever was."
In a debate which had plenty of ups and downs, the congressman's efforts to be coherent on the war were cover-your-eyes awful. One the one hand, Ryan supports the Obama administration's withdrawal timetable:
"Now, with respect to Afghanistan, the 2014 deadline, we agree with a 2014 transition."
On the other hand, Ryan thinks the Obama administration's withdrawal timetable is dangerous:
"[W]e don't want to broadcast to our enemies 'put a date on your calendar, wait us out, and then come back.' ... What we don't want to do is give our allies reason to trust us less and our enemies more -- we don't want to embolden our enemies."
What's the Romney-Ryan ticket's position on the war? No one has a clue because the Republican candidates, four weeks from the election, haven't picked one yet. As Rachel noted in the post-debate coverage, "The Romney-Ryan ticket is not credible on the issue of the war.... Paul Ryan embarrassed himself on Afghanistan tonight in a way that he embarrassed himself on no other issue. He did not understand the question well enough to know that he was making a mistake because he's just learned this for the test. He doesn't understand any of it. I find that terrifying."
Incidentally, Dan Senor, a leading Romney-Ryan adviser on foreign policy, told Fox News yesterday that the Romney-Ryan position on Afghanistan "is the same as the president's," adding that Romney "obviously supports the president's position." Senor also said, "We have some disagreements with the president on Afghanistan." After endorsing 2014 withdrawal, Senor added, "If you're the Commander-in Chief, to broadcast timelines so our enemies are in the know about our next move" is a mistake.
If this wasn't so critically important, I might even feel sorry for the Republican ticket.
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Even if they agree with the 2014 timeline I think there is still an idea that they are going to just start another war. They are following the idea that if there is anyone in the middle east that disagrees with America let alone stands up to us or says "No" that we can use hard power to get what we want. If the religious right and the fiscal interests of the Republican party are the guiding forces on the Domestic front it's definitely the NeoCons who are very much still in charge of foreign policy
Yes...the debate last night (and nod's to debate coach Dan Senor) showed they WANT to get out of Afghanistan so they can use those troops when we bomb Iran.
Bob Dylan - "Senor (Tales Of Yankee Power)"
Since they just found a trillion dollar lithium vein in Afghanistan, what makes you think we are actually going anywhere before WE get the contract to mine it?Greed always wins out with the republicans. It's always money that drives them to war. Enough!
We can't get out of "the graveyard of empire" fast enough.
It is appallingly pathetic that they have crossed-opinions on Afghanistan, and yet are still beating the war-drums over Iran and the neo-cons goal of owning Tehran.
It is the 'take as many positions as possible' game so they cam point at a group and a position and say 'see, that's us' as well as pointing at the President saying 'he's wrong' even when they agree.
It has gotten to the point of psychosis.
It's "Multiple Choice Mitt" - on any topic.
Talk about cringe factor. A particularly embarrassing moment for Ryan. I for one loved ALL the moments that Joe was laughing at Ryan. It's exactly what I'd hoped Joe would do. How can you not laugh at a guy who's pretending he's qualified to hold the same office that you do while knowing virtually nothing about what he's talking about?
Bingo!
They say "laughter is the best medicine", and Joe just gave Ryan a horse pill!
How is laughing at your opponent beneficial? All America saw of Joe was a steamrolling bureaucrat who made his party look childish - America wants to know the issues and have a real debate - Joe Biden made a mockery of the event. I'm sure many people enjoyed his antics, but did they really help move the dial? No bounce, no positive feelings, nothing.....the next few days of the news cycle should prove to be interesting - today's new headlines are all about his behavior
But when Romeny takes over a debate and pushes back and puts a smirk on his face you praise him to no end for his steamrolling. You people are such hypocrites!
imageshack.us/a/img99/8412/russianl.jpg
eddieVroom - thanks, that's funny!
"As they say in Russia..." or, as they allegedly say in Ireland, "stuff"!
;-)
Interesting comment, IDSprout. As you can see here, "all of America" did not see that at all. Really? You speak for all of America? I think you've been watching too much of Fox News. They love to speak for all of America over there. If you like and support Joe Biden, then you were thrilled with his performance and debate skills last night. He crushed that little ankle-biter, Paul Ryan. Plain and simple. If you saw a "steamrolling bureaucrat" then you know how some of us see Romney. Although he's not even a bureaucrat. He's just an arrogant douchebag.
Joe did a good job negating Ryan's arguments last night by poiinting out that Afghan troops will fully take over security in 2014 and that we are phasing them in now, which allowed us to withdraw the surge troops last month. It's not as if there will be nobody left to fight the Taliban in 2014 when we leave. Ryan and Romney are clueless on this issue.
Shhhhh, we can't tell the enemy when we're leaving. We'll just sneak out, and hope they don't notice we're gone.
starting to think ryan smokes opium, no other reason to want to stay in afghanistan, they haven't harvested the current crop lol
It was important to note that the only reason we are withdrawing the surge troops is because we trained the Afghans and it is time they took responsibility for their own country. VP Biden also reminded Mr. Ryan that the Commander-in-Chief does not take a poll of military leaders. He makes decisions. There will always be someone who disagrees. That is why the buck stops at the top. The Veep was also great explaining to the kid, the military difference between intervening in a densely populated small country and one 5 times as large with a smaller population. We are safer in this administrations' hands.
I loved when the Almighty Lyin' Ryan started to lecture the moderator and audience about the war in Afghanistan (???????????????)
Stick to your numbers, Mr. "Numbers Guy"... oh, yeah...I forgot...you're not very good with those either!!
Joe Biden And The Abortion Question
In the the bizarro Veep
debate last night, the candidates were asked how their mutual Catholic faith informs their views on abortion.
Rep. Ryan answered that his view that one cannot reasonably separate their privately held belief from their public view. He then said he is pro-life not only because of his Catholic faith, but also because of reason and science. I cannot tell you how much I like that part of his answer.
He then went on to say that the Romney administration would oppose abortion except in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. He clarified later that his principle is that all life begins at conception, but the the policy position of the Romney administration would support the exceptions.
Ryan clearly understands that the policy does not match the principle, but obviously Governor Romney believes that a policy without exceptions is not achievable at this time. That is a debate for another time, but Ryan fairly defends the reason, science, and the Church's teaching on when life begins.
Vice President Joe Biden, on the other hand, attempts the Mario Cuomo two-step (personally opposed publicly pro in a simple 4/4 rhythm.) Quoting in full.
So Joe Biden accepts as a "de fide" tenet of the faith that life begins at conception, but that it is perfectly ok to take that innocent life. Yet Biden would take myriad other positions that do not rise to the level of 'de fide' pronouncements and happily impose them on everybody.
Joe Biden's position is as disingenuous as his smile.
You cannot possibly really believe that life, innocent human life begins at conception and support abortion on demand. It is not possible. Paul Ryan tried to undercut this ridiculous duplicity before Biden even answered but it skittered right off his teflon intellect and bounced right off his kevlar conscience. It is the worst of lies, but the once pro-life Biden does not care, after all he is the same man who danced for joy when his support for Justice Souter resulted in the Supreme Court upholding abortion in Casey. You do not dance for joy if your personal belief is that life begins at conception.
One thing is true, however. Joe Biden does not want to impose the tenets of Catholicism on anyone, especially himself.
See you tommorow on this one!
He said that he accepted the teaching which is not quite the same as believing it.
It is the same position that Mario Cuomo articulated.
We are not electing a pope after all.
What's this "innocent human life begins at conception" nonsense? I thought you Catholics believed in "Original Sin."
Perhaps you do not understand, Irish- after all, Ireland has an established religion- but the POTUS is just that. President of ALL the people. Even godless atheists.
Why are you posting about abortion in a thread on the war in Afghanistan?
Because he is an ass!
Pat:
The Pope no longer rules the Christian world and even Joe Biden recognizes that under the U.S. Constitution neither the Pope, Childman Ryan , nor you have a right to impose your own religious upon others, so STFU!
Hmmm... My take on this subject--
Pat-
Joe Biden is a sitting Vice President. Not a private citizen. He swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. In doing so, he recognizes that his own personal belief system can NOT cross the line set by separation of church and state. He is extremely correct in NOT imposing his beliefs on others. His oath literally prevents him from imposing Catholicism on others as a function of his day job.
Get over it.
I read that as an admission that it's sometimes appropriate to construct government regulations that diverge from one's own personal values.
Such as abortion being legal.
Excuse me Mr Vice President. That "holding hostage" the American middle class is OLD Bill Clinton 1994 rhetoric. It's still garbage.
America is LAUGHING at Joe Biden and President Obama this morning.
Pat what is the color of the sky under your bubble?
Rose colored, I'm sure.....
The Romney-Ryan ticket does not prioritize the safety of our troops high enough.
Joe Biden made that clear why they choose to train Troops in Afganistan.
I found the most telling exchange about what the Romney-Ryan ticket stands for in the exchange toward the end of the discussion about Syria when Mr. Ryan was asked by Ms. Radditz about humanitarian aid and he did not answer the question. She asked him again, "No humanitarian?"
And he said, "Each situation will come up with it's own set of circumstances, but putting American troops on the ground, that's got to be in the national interests of the American people." then he suggests embargos, sanctions and overflights....but no humanitarian.
No humanitarian??
Are we that insensitive? Well, their whole platform runs on this!
When Martha said to Ryan "No humanitarian?" the look on Ryan's face said it all. It was obvious that he and his party care nothing for humanitarian efforts.
And his general "in the national interests" response (completely avoiding the question asked about their criteria) means "we'll decide what's in the national interests once we're in office and start new wars of our choosing - you folks just leave that up to us."
I agree we should give humanitarian aid, but we give way too much to countries when they have natural disasters. we need to take care of our own people before we take care of others. We don't do that very well, so helping someone else should be regulated for each situation.
Its incredibly ironic to me, and I hope this wasn't missed by the American people, that when it comes to abortion, Ryan is all for imposing his Catholic beliefs on others, but when it pertains to humanitarian relief he doesn't feel the need to help others. I think its disingenuous to pick and choose where you apply your supposed values.
Romney/Ryan is a grifter ticket. They are willing to outsource American foreign policy to the Neo-Cons and Israel because they don't give a crap about anything but their scam. In this case Romney is doing everything he can to keep his 15% max tax rate. It is all that matters, except lowering taxes for his friends and steering money to his defense contractor buds.
First off Romney/Ryan have all of the failed miscreants from BushCo.'s failed imperial adventures! These guys haven't learned anything and are itching to start another war in the Middle East; I get it, those defense contractors are cleaning up and sending their money to Cayman Island banks! However, our troops are NOT G.I. Joe toy soldiers to be used like toys for the imperial ambitions of the GOTP!! Ryan (boy blunder) showed exactly why the GOTP ticket is so dangerous for this nation - they are oblivious - from what is going on, to how to extricate ourselves - because let's face it - IT IS THEIR COUNTRY and its time the Afghans start defending themselves! Bring our troops home and lets do a bit of "nation building" right here in the USA!!
John Bolton.
I rest my case.
i read one news wire service report this morning (i didn't watch the debate) which lamented that ryan ventured into foreign affairs because "...his real strength is in entitlements and the budget".
well, no it isn't. if anything, he is even more clueless there, because he approaches it from the perspective of his patron saint, ayn rand, and a inpenetrable right wing echo chamber. all things even, i'd rather have him mucking around in afghanistan than in social security or medicare. he can do a helluva lot less harm. but, this is typical msm obtuseness. (i mean, like he's like, a very serious person, isn't he?).
I'm curious as to how he can be both a follower of Ayn Rand and a believer in the tenets of Jesus Christ. Their socail philosophies are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Its confusing and I get the sneaking suspicion that he only espouses his Catholic faith when it is convenient to him.
Meanwhile their base of Armageddon seeking zealots and just plain war loving red necks are frothing at the mouth knowing the republican war profiteers are now dumping tons of money into the campaign.
Romney and Ryan want us out of Afghanistan in 2014 so the troops can come home and get a quick rest before being deployed to Libya, Syria and Iran!
The idea of 'not giving a timeline' is frankly ludicrous. Either you stay forever, or at some point you have to say 'we're leaving'. And if you're leaving its going to have to be pretty clear when and how, if only for your own logistical purposes.
What does Ryan think the alternative is? That the Taliban would wake up one morning and suddenly find the US was gone? Vanished overnight? Without warning? Bizarre.
And how exactly do the Afghan government get prepared to take up the mantle if they are not given time to plan?
Just nonsense. Typical of a republican meme that Obama is wrong even if they agree with him or would do nothing different.
Have you ever seen the old footage of our military's sudden and essentially unannounced departure from Vietnam? That is the kind of chaos Ryan appears to be advocating. And Ryan claims to be concerned about our international image...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdR2Iktffaw
Even scarier was Ryan's attempt to explain their position on Iran. Couldn't define what the threshold is for military action, they'd do the same thing that the Obama administration is doing but not really? WTH?
Polling generals for disagreement with the CinC is stupid and dangerous. A general usually needs war to get another star. The CinC has to make difficult thoughtful decisions and POB shines in comparison to GWB who let his ego and business buddies push us into Iraq. We were better off when the military handled logistics instead of the waste and theft by Cheney and Rumsfeld's corporate sponsors in the war business.
I think what he was saying was "we plan to leave in 2014, but we might change our mind about it." Given how unpopular the war is, I imagine Biden won a big point by saying "we are going to leave in 2014, period." And given Iraq has ended, the administration has the credibility to make that promise. On a related note, Ryan referred several times to Obama failing to get a "status-of-forces" agreement in Iraq. I'm not really familiar with that argument- can anyone explain what it means, and if I should care?
A "status-of-forces" agreement is something Bush pursued to get the privilege of a permanent military force in Iraq. I don't think Obama 'failed' to get one, he wanted us out.
I think the last status of forces agreement was under Bush. Bush failed to get one not Obama. Obama merely followed up on what Bush agreed to in writing. Signature and all
Just another in the endless litany of FOX "News"/Wingnut nation talking points.
Reince Priebus would be glad to enlighten you...as soon as someone enlightens him.
I feel ALOT safer knowing that Joe Biden & the POTUS have a grasp on foreign policy. The Repub nitwits are clueless and its scary to think of either of these 2 clowns protecting our country.
God how I wish we could stick these two worthless traitors in an unarmored Humvee and send them on a campaign tour through Kandahar Province.
I am wondering if anyone knows why the Congress decided to cut funding for embassy security this year while the U.S. is engaged in military actions and maneuvers all over the planet, including the China Sea. Are there any reports or information on that? Are there any security assessments to have warranted reduced funding? When did the cuts happen?
I am not sure I understand the confusion. This is the one thing that Ryan said that made sense to me. While they agree with the 2014 transition date, they did not agree with publicizing it. By have the date publicized, the bad guys can just hang out and wait till we leave, give the Afghan military a false sense of accomplishment, and then attack and take over.
Sort of like not posting on Facebook every time you leave the house so that the thieves know you are not home.
Now just about everything else he said had me scratching my head.