We talked last week about an unexpected challenge for Republicans: the party was heavily invested in attacking President Obama for an unemployment rate above 8 percent, and found itself in an awkward position when the jobless rate dropped to 7.8 percent.
How the GOP and Romney/Ryan deal with these improving conditions is of great interest, since the results may help dictate the 2012 election. On ABC yesterday, Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) offered a great example of how not to deal with the facts.
For those who can't watch clips online, Jake Tapper noted a clip from the vice presidential debate in which Paul Ryan said the unemployment rate is going up "all around America" -- an argument that happens to be wrong. The host asked Portman a simple but important question: "Now, senator, this has been weak economic recovery, without question, but it is a recovery, and unemployment is going down, just as a factual matter. Why would Congressman Ryan, in defiance of facts, suggest otherwise?"
To which Portman responded:
"I think that what he was saying was the truth: which unemployment is higher today than when the president took office. Unfortunately, in the meantime, we've created net zero jobs, Jake."
This is genuinely remarkable. Ryan was caught presenting a false claim to the nation, and asked to explain why, one of the Romney campaign's leading surrogates told a national television audience, in effect, "The lie is accurate." When the book is written on the evolution of post-truth politics, this anecdote should be in the first chapter.
As an objective matter, unemployment is lower today than when the president took office, and we've seen a net increase in job creation. Portman -- a sitting U.S. senator and former budget director -- surely knows this, but chose to say the exact opposite. Why? Because he thinks he can get away with it. Post-truth politics is liberating that way.
You see, Portman doesn't like our reality, so he has no qualms about making up his own version of facts, and asking Americans to believe him -- even though he's blatantly, shamelessly lying.
Putting aside all other considerations, it's just not healthy for a political system when one side of the political divide decides to substitute one version of reality for another. Words, facts, arithmetic, and objective truths must maintain some sort of meaning or our basic ability to have a political conversation will deteriorate into chaos.
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I agree with your last paragraph there. It is very sad to see the Republican party degrade themselves like this. A total disregard for 'truth' and 'objective facts'.
Everything in their world is subjective, and subjected to the echo chamber where only one thing matters: Getting back into power.
Nothing else matter to them. Nothing. Not honesty, not the future, not pride, nothing other than saying or doing whatever is necessary to get back into power.
I agree, but if they win using these tactics then they meet their goal. The media needs to report the truth.
Or Jake could simply ask the logical followup question:
"Is the Romney campaign's assessment that the bulk of the American electorate is unable to understand that you just lied?
Or Tapper could attend the Soledad O'brien school of journalism , course 101, wherein you reject talking points by saying . "that is a talking point and not factual , followed by the actual statistics"
I agree, it drives me crazy when the media present comments like this from Portman without calling it what it is, a lie. They seem to think that it is "balanced" reporting to report both sides of an issue even when one side is fact based and the other is not.
Unemployment is down, employment is up. If you count from 6 months after the president took office, which Romney said was the minimum place to start because it takes time for a executive's actions to have impact, employment is up significantly.
"Nothing else matter to them. Nothing. Not honesty, not the future, not pride, nothing other than saying or doing whatever is necessary to get back into power."
Exactly right. Power corrupts, and the National Republican hierarchy is thoroughly corrupted.
Jake Tapper is the reason this crap lives to stink up another day. Other's in teevee pseudo-journalist land are just as bad, but in this instance, in this outstanding example of the FUBARRomney cabal lying it's ass off to perpetuate a false narrative, it's Jake Tapper who is solely at fault for letting this slide. He knows the facts. He knows Portman is full of crap. He knows that Portman is lying. But he does no follow up and he basically is completely useless. He absolutely has done nothing to justify anyone spending the time they have just spent watching his exercise in chair warming.
Here's how a real journalist, wanting to make perfectly clear to the audience and the interviewee that he would not cotton being lied to or snow-balled, would deal with having lies and talking points as responses to direct question:
"Sir, what you just said is false. Is it the case that you know it is false and are simply lying and expect the American public to believe the lie, or are you just ignorant to the truth?"
The press is the scandal of this country. The press is the reason Republicans feel empowered to lie about anything and everything. The press has more to answer to than even the Republican party. Today's Republican party could not exist without the cowardice, impotence, and technical incompetence of the press.
If the use of the word "lies" is impermissible, why not have fun and call them "Karl Rove neocon WMD facts"?
And for another example of how outrageous this really is , after the ussc handed down the aca ruling , george stephenopolous would not allow the dems on the program to call the "tax penalty", for not buying HC insurance , " A PENALTY ".......Several times he attempted to correct the dems in the tv segment , , but they can not correct the stream of lies the romney team comes on and pukes out every sunday
And they think mAnn Colter is a legitamate politcal voice ??? I will never watch that show again
Clearly they have been studying and applying the principles in "1984"
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
Wow, all you people keep expecting Legend-in-his-own-mind Jake Tapper to not be the incompetent drooling moron he is, despite his years-long trail of demonstrable fact otherwise. I swear, if the Beltway Media is what is now meant by a "free press," I can well do without it. Jefferson must be spinning in his grave to watch these idiots, that he ever wasted breath devising a First Amendment. It's sad that you have to read the foreign press to find out anything about what is actually happening here.
Recall that Jefferson had his own newspaper in which he put forth suggestions that Hamilton had an extra marital affair and was involved in a fraud involving the cuckold husband who was blackmailing Hamilton. He had the information because Monroe had conducted an investigation and part of Hamilton's defense was to divulge the source of the husband's animus. He was promised confientiality but Monroe gave the letters to Jefferson who 5 years later used the information to wound Hamilton politically.
It was all appearance over substance. The substance was that Hamilton had not violated the public trust regarding the financial allegations, and both of them had affairs outside of marriage. (Unlike Hamilton's adultery, Jefferson's long term relationship with his slave Sally Hemmings was five years after his wife's death. Hemmings was 15 or 16 when Jefferson in his late 40s began sexual relations with her. Some historians state there was a coercive deal that Jefferson offered for sex: that he would free her children for continuing to consent to sex with a man 3 decades her senior.
All this happened prior to Jefferson being elected President, and was a common rumor. With modern journalism, there would undoubtedly have been more information in the public's hands. The information would have been factual- and the early american version of a drudge report blogger, pampleteer James Callender knew about both the Hamilton and Jefferson affairs was true. He was in the business of selling information that consumers would pay good money for. He did not care that the information misled people about the truth of who these men were.
If Callender had been able to reach the wide audiences that modern media can, his stories would not have been the triumph of truth. It would have been a triumph of appearances over substance. Jefferson had a crucial role contributing to the substance of our democracy. Yet the appearance of a serious character flaw would have disqualified him in today's world.
Daddy, where do babies come from? The stork son. You screw the stork? Portman must get his facts from a toilet seat.
I wonder what goes through Portman's mind while he's playing the role of Obama in the debate preps. "Wow, how refreshing it is to say something that's true..." And then he has to trudge back out into the real world, where the GOP expects - no, demands -him to lie his a$$ off.
The GOP has this lying thing down pat. Unfortunately, its working for them.
Why doesn't the media, blast this fact all over the air waves? Are they afraid. Why do they not call a lie a lie, on both sides. I watch msnbc because I want to hear what they say. Is what is said the facts, the truth. If not why should I bother.
The answer of course is the media has a financial stake in the horserace. The truth is not in their economic best interests. Pure market capitalism at work.
and they might lose "access" .
If you are mean to me I won't come on your show and lie anymore.
sick- but wouldn't it be sort of cool if Republicans were only welcome on Fox and no one else will allow them on their show ? Might make it tougher for them to get the 'bull' out there if they only end up with one network. Fox can't carry the false credibility all by themselves.
just a thought....
Actually, pure market capitalism relies on all actors being perfectly informed. This is not pure market capitalism. This is asymmetric, rip-the-face-off-the-customer capitalism, just like what happened in the financial crisis. One side has the information and the press is not motivated to make sure the honest picture of reality is presented. It hides behind it lameass fake-balance and false equivalence.
"It is not credible to expect a man to act in a certain way when his economic interests require him to do the opposite." -- George Orwall
It sounds like sarcasm, but it isn't. That's really how it is. But the truth is, reporting is better without 'access'. If a reporter sands off the rough edges of their reporting in exchange for 'access' (read: spin), then obviously the reporting is less truthful and useful. 'Access' lets politicians control the media. This won't stop Rachel from pleading for Republicans to come on the show, but their refusal is actually helping her do her job better.
"Maybe it wasn't such a great idea to allow individuals to own blanketing media ability"
The eighties calling and wanting its innocence back , its a new morning !
I'm starting to get the impression they want to be called liars by the Obama Administration just so they can then bemoan Obama's lack of civility in our national discourse.
They also want the "liberal media" to call them liars so they can turn to the base and say "See? We told you, you can't trust the 'liberal media,' look at them calling us liars when all we're doing is asking the questions you want asked/that we told you you wanted asked?"
In the Days of Yore we measured time by AD and BC.
Now,- since 9/11,-it seems we have TWSYF (The Truth Will Set You Free)
And FDM (Facts Don't Matter).
Don't forget the IOKIYAR time stamp also!
Oh if the truth will set us free immediately. So tired of lie after lie. Is anyone seeking truth on the GOP side? Anti-Obama by any means necessary. The thing about liars pants being on fire is that the fire can damage the truth seekers as well as the liars and those who are "looking the other way", wearing blinders, etc. Meanwhile our young people are dying whether they believe the lies or not. His truth is marching on but is surrounded by an entourage of lies, dig around in the cloud people and discard self- serving falsehood. The devil is a liar and a cheater too. People in media,give us a break and expose falsehood immediately.
Republican still refuse to accept reality when it comes to the economy. They're simply fearful because they understand job growth means less of a chance that Mitt wins. Romney and the other Republicans bashing the President for his jobs policies are going to have to surrender to reality soon enough and change their talking points or risk being laughed off the national stage. Millions of jobs were created last year, something every Republican has consistently lied about. Now is not the time to cut off the growth of jobs with a toxic conservative agenda of spending cuts and more government handouts to billionaires. - progressive
So when will the Obama campaign go after this blatant falsehood by using it to undermine the entire Romney/Republican foundation. How can we trust a guy who thinks the most important action we can take to help the millions of people struggling in this great nation is to give the richest people a tax cut? Ask the American people how we can trust the Republicans and Mitt Romney when they live in a world of talking points that are at odds with reality. Bush did it with tax cuts and WMD, Romney is doing it with just about everything else.
Things like this are why we need new words:
1. truthiness (noun)
1 : "truth that comes from the gut, not books" (Stephen Colbert, Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report," October 2005)
2 : "the quality of preferring concepts or facts one wishes to be true, rather than concepts or facts known to be true" (American Dialect Society, January 2006)
Like most people who are being honest, if I had money to spend beyond the basics, I would be spending. Reality screams that buying products and services grow the economy and not a few rich people looking to get richer.
There ya go.... that really says it all.
Don't worry, today's latest polls shows comeback for Obama. Wash Post, ABC poll shows Obama is up 3pts: http://www.pollheadlines.com
It's like an SNL skit, but it's not funny and it was the hosts responsibility to reply, "NO senator, you just twisted my question." Talk about insulting ones intelligence!
The GOP has a plan and that's to win at all costs. What's the plan if they win? They sure as hell know what the plan is because that's why they "pete and repeat pete" but they're not telling us!
If you're asked to go on national TV and lie, wouldn't you need to know why and the details of the BS you're about to sling?
Any which way but loose, the skewing begins...bend over people. That's the plan...Mittens, the man with the plan...
Way too many people under 35 now believe that everyone in politics lies and have taken to "believing" what agrees with their bias. That is why those on right and left "know" they can lie and get away with it. Some of them believe everything is a matter of opinion - even scientifically provable facts because they no longer believe scientists either.
False equivalence, pal. There's one side that is bald-faced lying without shame to the public: Republicans. They have no problem denying objective facts. None, whatsoever. Bad sides are not equally at fault. Face up to the hard truth. It is just too easy to pat oneself on the back and conclude "they both do it."
Or you could go into the media business if that is too hard for you.
Hey, why haven't you reported this?
Is TRMS disguising the truth about Liarwatha and her goon thug Union Supporters?
Elizabeth Warren Supporters Tease Gay Scott Brown Staffer
3:10 PM, Oct 12, 2012 • By MICHAEL WARREN
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Supporters of Democrat Elizabeth Warren's Senate campaign in Massachusetts have been accused of mocking a staffer of Republican Scott Brown outside a recent debate in Springfield.
A GOP source sends two videos taken immediately after the incident outside the Springfield debate (where a union member also admitted on camera that he would be fined for not showing up and supporting Warren). The first shows a man holding a United Auto Workers sign and wearing a UAW t-shirt walking away as the woman with the camera asks another Warren supporter if the UAW man is "homophobic." The Warren supporter says, "He [the UAW man] says he [the Brown staffer] likes it up the a--." Watch the video below:
In a phone interview, Ellen Wallace, the director of the UAW's Massachusetts subregion, responded to a description of the above video with, "Yeesh." Asked if the UAW condones those type of attacks, Wallace responded, "Absolutely not."
"We certainly don't condone attacks on people's staff," Wallace said. "That doesn't sound like anybody I know."
A second video of another Warren supporter shows a man admitting to ridiculing the staffer. The cameraman asks the man if he was chanting "Sounds kind of gay" toward the staffer.
"Oh yeah, I did," the man says, laughing. He then adopts an effeminate voice to mock the staffer saying, "We want Scott, we want Scott."
"I'm like, 'Sounds kind of gay, sounds kind of gay," the man says before laughing again. "We're not going to say that anymore, because they're ready for us," he adds.
The man says they'll continue to use the chant, "Wipe the Scott, flush the Brown." Watch the video below:
Related Stories
More by Michael Warren
Lisa De Pasquale first reported the incident on her blog:
Hemminger received an apology from Warren's campaign manager, which De Pasquale obtained:
I stopped reading after "goon thug union supporter"
Typical poor ol' lovelorn Paddy, coming here without a clue or a hope of salvation. The story YOU provided shows that if this happened, and I've no reason to believe otherwise, the Warren campaign did what NO republican would do, they apologized. There is also, at this point, no information on whether the staffer kept his job. If he did, THAT will be a story. Will you come back to post a long diatribe that ends with the information the jackass was fired? I'm guessing ... no.
You managed to get past "Liarwatha"?!! Wow...
Get Enraged and Engaged:
Mooch the Vote 2012!
;-)
Pat
You call her Liarwatha and expect us to believe that you're outraged by the bigotry displayed?
Seriously?
Folks, the ol' boy is losing it. Unless there's a connection between Portman and Warren, our poor ol' Vatican wingnut troll is in the thralls of mental decline that begun from a lower point that most of us have ever had to deal with. Is it any wonder that the decline has accelerated considering his reading material, e.g. The Weekly Standard.
Report him. He's way off topic.
80' Girl: get those boots a swingin'
Awwwww... poor Pattie (Paddie? Patty? Paddy?) got himself collapsed again. What an asswhole.
Wait I'm confused. Scott Brown's STAFF makes racist remarks towards Warren and then Scott Brown himself never apologizes for it, but instead insists that it was a good thing to do....and that's now OK because a Warren supporter (not a staffer or anyone associated with Warren in any way) made a comment about someone liking it up the arse?!
Seriously Pat do you just enjoy defending the most disgusting acts known to mankind???? Here you are defending racism and homophobia and this after your multiple posts defending pedophilia. You have serious issues man
Good catch Cartoonthenews! I had read the story that poor ol' Paddy posted but somehow missed that this was a supporter, not a staffer. Sheesh. Reading too fast again.
Or This!
Elizabeth Warren Claims Not to 'Know' Whether Union Members Were Fined for Not Supporting Her
12:21 PM, Oct 13, 2012 • By MICHAEL WARREN
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Elizabeth Warren, the Massachusetts Democrat challenging Republican Scott Brown for the U.S. Senate, dodged questions about claims that a local union was fining its members for not publicly supporting her campaign. This week, Warren repeatedly told Boston's local FOX TV affiliate, "I don't know anything about" the possibility that union members were threatened with fines if they did not attend a debate and hold signs to support the Democrat. After being pressed about her thoughts on those allegations several times by the reporter, a visibly agitated Warren said that she is "very proud of the union endorsement" she's received.
"Is that [fining union members] something you would tolerate, something you would accept, is all I'm asking," the reporter says.
"No!" Warren responds. "No. I mean, no. But I don't know anything about this story, and I don't know anything about the truth of it, so the answer is, no." Watch the video below:
The original video shows a union member wearing a t-shirt with the logo of the New England Carpenters Union, a spokesman for the union confirmed.
Related Stories
More by Michael Warren
“The New England Carpenters Union never has and never will fine a member for not participating in political activity and does not pay members for their participation," said Mark Erlich, secretary-treasurer of the New England Regional Council of Carpenters, in a statement to THE WEEKLY STANDARD.
The unidentified man in the video claims first he was threated with a fine of $150, then $250, if he did not come to support Warren at an earlier debate in Lowell.
"Did you guys get fined if you weren't there?" the cameraman asks.
"Yeah," the union member replies.
At the same debate in Springfield, a Warren supporter admitted on camera to mocking a gay staffer for Scott Brown, and another claims that a fellow Warren supporter (and possible United Auto Workers union member) also mocked the staffer.
Troll. Moderator, please remove these posts.
Pat is an institution here.. typically ignored-- and always amusing...
Hoo boy! Pattie (Paddie? Patty? Paddy?) has really lost it in his old age. Now he can't even stay on topic. Just copy some wall-of-text and insert it in whatever Maddow blog topic he clicks on.
This is what happens when you started out with an inferior brain and it starts to deteriorate.
To Everybody,
You need to report him on this one. His normal stuff is bad enough; he's never on topic. But this is just near stream-of-consciousness nonsense.
It's too bad that there aren't any reporters willing to ask Romney about the coal miners in Ohio.
Just report him.
The Dem party should buy an hour of network TV and just show an hour of lie's by the Rep party and give the factual answers to each and everyone! Call them out and make damn sure every answer beats the fact checker, The truth will blow them away!
The GOP would respond by calling it "lamestream media" and would negate any influence because the low-information base would buy "lamestream media" more than the facts.
I think that is just what happened during the first Presidential Debate. Based on what he had said in past "performances", we heard a succession of lies from Mitt (many sided) Romney.
Sticking pins into a POB doll is the gist of the voodoo economics Mitt is presenting. A farmer to save money began by substituting some sawdust into his horses feed each day and it seemed to work. One day the farmer complained that just as he got up to 100% sawdust. the damn horse died. Starving half of the economy to support a few will as surely kill the economy.
Hey, why haven't you reported this?
Is TRMS disguising the truth about Liarwatha and her goon thug Union Supporters?
Why as a matter of fact , yes we are . You see Pat we are using the Republican playbook of lie , cheat steal. Anything to win the election .
Like Fox news we report only what our side wants to hear and you can go pound sand with your "facts"
"Liarwatha"? God, he's even dumber than the usual dumbass Southie.
Creating an alternate reality and then finding the data to back it up later! Isn't this what the fascists did after the first world war? To my republican friends......be careful about what you believe and what you allow to stand as the truth. There were a lot of good intentioned people who stayed silent and thought that silence would lead to normality in the long run.
With the support of the sold out corporate propagandist media , you got it
Where is Tapper in this?? As a reporter, he shouldn't just allow people to lie right to his face and the country. The media knows the facts (presumably). Why do they let anyone get away with making bold faced lies and not challenge them? The Republicans are going to lie. We know that. That's what they've been doing for months. But the media has a responsibilty to report on that too. To paraphrase Jon Stewart: when did "fact checkers" and reporters become two separate things???
There. Fixed that.
Looks like he did get away with it. At some point, and I've reached it, you can't really blame the politicians and you have to put the blame on the media.
The Romney campaign is taking advantage of the media cowardice when it comes to calling out their lies.
This happens so much that I'm beginning to believe that cowardice is not the right c-word to describe the MSM approach to the Romney camp's lies.
Maybe the right word is complicity.
Complicity sounds so complicated , why not call it the right wing media ? After all the schqueaky wheel here is the one consolidated by single entities controlling print , talk , and telvision .
Yesterday, I caught a bit of some show on CNN and there were various media folk complaining that VP Biden had made the mistake of being too "laughy" and now that's all anyone was talking about. No one wanted to talk about the issues because there was too much "making fun of Biden" to talk about.
I scared my cat and my husband screaming at the teevee that THEY ARE THE ONES who decide what to talk about. Complete and utter morons.
At some point you would imagine the supposed media PROFESSIONALS might get sick of the gop playing them like they are a bunch of imbeciles , sarah palin style , , but for some strange reason , some of them actually seem to be into it , and embrace it , it is disturbing to witness
Yesterday, I caught a bit of some show on CNN
And now you know why it's called the Cretins' News Network.
He did get away with lying because the interviewer let him say it with no rebuttal
I'm an Obama supporter, but Ryan is *not* factually wrong. On a state-by-state basis, there are many states whose unemployment have started to tick up again. The US trend is down, sure. But, since the presedential election is won on a state-by-state basis, it matters. You can plausibly say that it's 'going up all over'. You can also say 'it's going down, too'. But again, the states matter, and it's not a lie.
Go take a look at the BLS numbers.
There are always geographic pockets around the country where things go worse than the overall economy (i.e. there's never a time when everyone is average or above - it's impossible). But for Ryan to phrase a general statement that unemployment is up "all around America" is clearly intended to mislead low-information viewers into believing that things are getting worse everywhere. Even though it can be interpreted as a true statement for the reason you stated, Ryan's intent was to mislead.
cherry-picking stats is method 2 on lying with statistics.
it's how you lie while saying true things.
The GOTea House had a chance to focus on jobs, jobs, jobs with the AJA. They chose to focus on traitorous obstruction, obstruction, obstruction in the hopes the economy would plummet and entice stupid Americans to not notice and vote for Romney.
The GOTea should love the Boehner economy of 2012. They're the ones who stood in the way of progress. It's their stalled economy.
Let's be fair here, Conservatives don't need the truth on their side. Because there is so much hate in the base of this party, any comment that casts a bad light on this administration is considered welcome news. I have given up on trying to state facts because they just doesn't matter anymore. Up is down, in is out stop is go and black is white. Well maybe I was wrong on that last one but I think you get the picture.
Yer confusin' is amuzin' !