Associated Press
To put in perspective who won last night's debate, consider a polling tidbit. A few weeks ago, after the first contest between President Obama and Mitt Romney, a CBS poll of undecided voters taken immediately after the event showed the Republican winning the debate by 24 points.
CBS polled undecided voters again last night, and found Obama winning this debate by 30 points.
Debate analysis is a bit like art evaluation -- not everyone sees the same thing -- but I not only thought the president excelled last night, I think Romney very nearly embarrassed himself. After six years of campaigning for the nation's highest office, asking voters to make him the leader of the free world, the former one-term governor conveyed an unnerving message to the nation in the year's final debate: he neither knows nor cares about international affairs. As a New York Times editorial noted, Romney at times "sounded like a beauty pageant contestant groping for an answer to the final question."
As best as I can tell, Romney adopted a three-pronged strategy for the event in Boca Raton, Fla.
Part One: Agree with Obama
For months, Romney, Paul Ryan, and their Republican allies have been desperate to paint Obama as pursuing a weak and misguided foreign policy.
Last night, while the president was on the offensive throughout, exposing Romney's contradictions, reversals, and overall ignorance, the Republican did the opposite, playing down differences, and endorsing the president's position on everything from Afghanistan to Iranian sanctions to Syria to Egypt. In some cases this meant abandoning positions Romney has long held, and in other cases, it meant pretending his agenda isn't his agenda.
It left voters with a detached message that bordered on incoherence: Obama has a failed foreign policy ... which I intend to implement if elected.
Part Two: Change the subject
Romney had ample time to prepare to discuss foreign policy, and a team of Bush/Cheney administration officials to tell him how to at least sound like he's answering the questions, but he repeatedly tried to change the subject away from foreign policy during the debate on foreign policy. Over the course of 90 minutes, Romney mentioned Osama bin Laden twice, mentioned food stamps three times, and mentioned school teachers eight times.
Plenty of strategists have said voters will find this compelling, since domestic issues trump international affairs in 2012, but no candidate benefits from appearing weak. This was a debate in which Romney was supposed to appear ready to lead a nation during a time of war and international "tumult." Instead, Romney appeared to be running for governor, not president.
Part Three: Make stuff up
We'll explore some of the key issues in more detail as the morning progresses, but when Romney wasn't agreeing with Obama and trying to change the subject, he was relying on his signature move -- saying things that aren't true and hoping no one notices.
The president got exactly what he wanted out of this debate. He demonstrated a command of international affairs, and took Romney apart, point by point. In contrast, by the time the event was over, I wasn't at all clear what Romney even hoped to accomplish. In his closing statement at the foreign policy debate, he didn't mention foreign policy.
The larger takeaway for voters is that the Republican candidate just doesn't seem to care -- and also doesn't think he has to care.
To revisit an anecdote from the summer, I often think about this story the Wall Street Journal published.
Mr. Romney made that clear at a July fundraiser in Montana as he rehashed the challenges Mr. Reagan faced when he took office. He recounted how Mr. Baker, a former secretary of state, held a national security meeting about Latin America during the first 100 days of Mr. Reagan's presidency.
"And after the meeting, President Reagan called me in and said, 'I want no more national-security meetings over the next 100 days -- all of our time has to be focused on getting our economy going,' " Mr. Romney recalled Mr. Baker saying.
In reality, this exchange between Reagan and Baker never happened. I don't know who told Romney this or whether Romney simply made it up out of whole cloth, but Reagan dealt with plenty of national-security meetings early in his presidency -- as all presidents do.
But the anecdote, when combined with last night's debate, makes me wonder if Romney fully understands the nature of the responsibilities he's seeking.
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It's The Economy Stupid!
And since the economy IS improving, despite what Rush tells you, Sweetie, and since Willard wants to take us back to what crashed the economy, IT'S A SLAM DUNK WIN FOR THE PRESIDENT, STUPID!
It is indeed Hank. It is indeed.
It is indeed Hank. It is indeed.
Especially when you want to distract from some other issue, say, a pathetic debate performance where your incompetance was really illuminated.
Thanks, but we need a POTUS who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Pay no attention to the trolls
Largenose, even the Democrat House Organ MSNBC is giving Romney props for a decent showing. But it doesn't really matter. Obama's expertise seems limited to bowing and scraping, installing radical Islamist governments, dissing both Britain and Israel, leaving his ambassador to die ignominiously, and furiously lying about it all.
Obama isn't even the Commander in Chief. He had to ask permission to kill Obama, his one real success, from Valerie Jarrett. How pathetic is that?
The President was overconfident the first debate and underprepared. He did not make that mistake last time AND this time. He was also surprised by the extent to which the Governor was lying and making stuff up. He has accepted that there is no way to avoid dealing with that now. In the last debate, Romney continued to try to bully, but ended up looking thuggish and overbearing. This time, he changed tact and embraced everything this Administration did, often times simply repeating everything Obama said. When he did revert back to bullying, he overstepped, stumbled and stepped on his own toe. Game over. Back to rebooting and reinventing himself. Time running out.
How pathetic is that?
Not as pathetic as your sad little screed full of lies.
Awww Blankman, are you feeling a bit sore and bruised for your candidate? Just face it, Robme doesn't have a clue, nor does he care and WE have been there and done that with Shrub, enough with detached President's already! President Obama handed Robme his butt on a Silver Platter decorated with garnish! Your boy on the other hand was indecisive, stumbled thru, kept agreeing with the President and never even bothered to articulate the logic & reasoning so very necessary for making the tough calls! You can fight it as hard as you want to the fact is is that Mittens is unprepared, not leadership material, and he falls far short in the "multi-tasking" abilities that are so required to deal with this nation and the world! Now, deal with it, the same way that I dealt with Shrub that took US down the rabbit-hole for 8 miserable years!
Obama/Biden 2012!!
And the such as...Syria!
Shooter242 #1.5
In spite of what Mr. Romney said last night, his vision of foreign policy for the past 4 years (which matches the vision of the second Bush Administration) has been to install democracy in places where it does not exist (by force if necessary) and declare we have a new friend on the international stage. This ignores the fact that these nations have little or no experience in democratic institutions and will have little or no stake in the government we created for them. It did not work when the British tried it and it will not work until the PEOPLE OF THOSE NATIONS create THEIR OWN SAFEGUARDS FOR THEIR SECURITY AND HAPPINESS like Ghandi did in India and our patriots did 236 years ago. I will remind everyone that it took 7 years of revolution and 4 years of internal wrangling to establish the government we enjoy today. To paraphrase Thomas Paine from The American Crisis: what is bought too cheaply is valued too lightly; it only makes sense that such a celestial object as FREEDOM should demand the dearest price. We spent 10 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and these peoples still have to sort these issues out among themselves. Who did we help?
President Obama chose to allow FREE PEOPLES to decide FOR THEMSELVES their own safeguards for their security and happiness. No one wants it to take 11 years for these nations to sort this out but it will not be THEIRS unless they do. The President acted with NATO allies and United Nations approval to stop wholesale slaughter by these dictators but allowed these peoples to EARN their freedom from tyranny instead of force feeding it to them. Those who paid this much for their freedom will not hand it over to tyrants again or try to take it away from other free peoples. President Obama wants nations around the world that earned the right to be called governments of the people, by the people and for the people to be partners in peace so that there are fewer places like Iran or North Korea threatening the peace. This means not picking the 'good' rebels in Syria - that is what a free people do for themselves. It also means not being a security force for a sovereign nation because you cannot do that AND allow them to choose their own safeguards for their security and happiness at the same time.
President Obama's experience is 'limited' to ending a war, winding down another, decimating the enemies that REALLY attacked us and restoring our moral authority around the world that was so severely damaged during the Bush Administration. Mr. Romney's experience is limited to checking on his accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.
Our choice is this: we can demand the obedience of weak nations we create or earn the trust of strong ones we nurture. Choose wisely and vote Democratic.
The Dow Jones industrial Average is down 250 points today due to weak revenue and earnings as a result the weakening economy and uncertainty. DuPont is laying off 1500 workers due to weakening sales. United Technologies reported weaker earnings today and cut its sales forecast for the rest of this year due to weakening demand from airlines and uncertainty about the economy.
No voters are not casting their ballots based on foreign policy or social issues, they are voting on who will do a better job on the economy and which man will enable the unemployed to get a new job or keep their current job. This one is Hoping for a Change come Nov 6.
Roll back to the bad old days that got us into this mess? I don't think so.
Once again, the troll that calls itself Shooter242 puts its desperation on display. It's candidate crashed and burned quite spectacularly last night, and all it can do is try trolling the other side to get the fleeting satisfaction of making them mad.
Just keep in mind, folks, that the troll doesn't even believe the bull@!$%# it shovels. Don't take it seriously enough to actually respond to its lies and distortions. Just laugh at it, and enjoy the spectacle of its desperate flailing.
because of what's happening in Europe, not America.
Then why is it when you get schooled on economic issues you bring up foreign policy and social issues and you continuously blog on social issues and foreign policy?
When did any of this happen and how do you know about any of this happening?
When did this happen?
Roll back to the bad old days that got us into this mess? I don't think so
So these days are better????
31 months of private sector job growth.
No American soldiers dying in Iraq for a lie.
Health insurance guaranteed to all Americans after 70 years of trying.
Medicare prescription drug 'donut hole' and preventative screenings for cancer and diabetes covered for our seniors.
Yes, these days are definitely better.
Bet you that the 1500 DuPont workers laid off today nor the 23 million workers unemployed think these days are better.
I will see that and raise you the hundreds of thousands of families who have loved ones home instead of on the line in Iraq and Afghanistan, the millions with jobs because of the auto bailout, those hired over these 31 months, the seniors no longer paying for prescriptions and finding out about health issues before they are too serious to treat . . .
I'll Call that with the millions of permanently unemployed workers over 50, the decrease in our annual income, the halving of our collective individual net worths, gas prices of $5 in CA, out of control federal and state deficits with a national debt equal and soon to surpass our GDP - thats Greece, Spain and Italy territory.
So we are not undecided - good. We can let the scoreboard decide the winner in less than two weeks. Til then, get your popcorn out.
The problem with all that is most of the people blame the Republican Congress and its sit down strike for us being there. It is just my opinion but I feel the scoreboard will have the President ahead.
No, more than half of the country elected the Tea Party as a check to Pelosi, Reid and Obama's run away big government spending excesses. This majority does not blame the republican congress. Remember repubs only control half of Congress, the senate is still controlled by the dems. Those freshman Tea Party republicans fulfilled their campaign promises which got them elected and deserve to be re-elected. We will soon see who is the better prognosticator about the final score.
The same polling that says this country is on the 'wrong track' also blames Congress for being there. The Tea Party , aided by the fillibuster in the Senate, fulfilled its promises in Congress by staging a sit down strike instead of taking care of the people's business. They may be able to get elected but they have to put themselves in the game before they can affect the scoreboard.
But wait don't you believe in union workers right to strike and bring their employer to its knees?
Correct me if I am wrong, but are our Congresspeople and Senators not supposed to LEAD? Our elected representatives are supposed to serve the people; these Republicans want the people to GIVE THEM what they want like spoiled brats. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette found out the hard way governing does not work like that. Let us hope the only thing these Republicans in Congress and the Senate lose is their jobs. For everybody's sake vote Democratic.
Instead, Romney appeared to be running for governor, not president.
I thought he was running to be Obama's Secretary of State, with all that agreeing going on.
My take: Romney knew that his foreign policy was a weak suit against Obama, so he loaded up on facts. During the debate, he discharged those facts in long-winded, confused, garbled chunks.
I think Hilary might have something to say about that. :)
largenose...your synopsis is right on.....romney was rattling off memorized facts as if he was trying to do a book report..
if he were lucky enough (or if the majority of american voters were naiive enough) to win the election, we would be either the laughing stock of the world and/or lose all alot of credibility
stphil...
... or if he and the rest of the Republicans are good enough at voter suppression, voter fraud and electronic voting machine hacking,,,
I thought he was running to be Obama's Secretary of State, with all that agreeing going on.
By the time it was all over, I thought Romney would be asking Obama if he could carry his briefcase for him! I doubt Obama has such an accomplished YesMan anywhere in his current administration! Good ol' Mitt. Just shake that Etch-a-Sketch.
Or, to paraphrase Forrest Gump, "My Momma says, Mitt is just like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get!"
Mr. Romney admitted to everyone Monday night that he cannot run this nation's foreign policy any better than the President. The part that really concerns me is that 90 minutes of debate contradicted 4 years of campaigning so thoroughly. The choice, then, is between someone who cannot (or will not, I am not sure which is worse) settle on a foreign policy position or someone who crafted the foreign policy position both candidates agree on. Vote Democratic.
It has been noticeable again on how the Republicans are trying to justify Romney’s total lack of leadership on what it takes to be a President. These justifications that Republicans try to make is unbelievable, especially when they want to take us to what is really some fake fantasyland that never really existed. This fantasyland would be the absolute worst way to go and really any man or woman speaking of actually wanting to follow these falsehoods are really promoting abuse in the world with their delusional thoughts of a male dominant society that doesn’t work in the end. But does cause some serious abuse, misery, despair, and death. I have lived in that world these Republicans, extremists of hatred, and extreme wealthy talk about and it is no bed of roses. Men are basically taught to beat their wives and children into submission which consists very much of hatred. Just because some so-called men and women had a better life does not mean that is what really existed or was the realities of every day living. But there is another aspect to this and that this does exist in other countries with these extreme religious leaders of hatred. But that does not mean we should go to war with every country just so we can fix it, when it is really the people of their own countries that need to come to realize these wrongs and stand up against these extremists of hatred, otherwise you will never succeed. You have to remember these people’s minds have been twisted by being subjected to abuse and can be prone to violence too easily, especially with some very ignorant men. What these people need is probably more like a therapist or psychologist to work threw their problems. President Obama’s approach in reality is much better suited for the situation. Romney will never be adequate enough or even be able to solve these problems, since he has no concept of any of these problems, except to cause more problems. Romney is incompetent. In additional, it would be these extremists of hatred delight to have a war so many more people can be murdered by their devious hands. There is always better ways to fix problems than to start a World War III that would just put people in abuse, misery, despair, and death.
We can understand completely why Republicans held their nose and picked W. We can even see why they need the McCain maverick brand to go against a neophyte young Senator. However, this choice of Romney indicates the koolaid has taken its toll. They chose somebody who is NOT conservative, not middle class, not self-made, not intelligent, and most of all extremely narcissistic and self-promoting. How can anyone vote for him when he cannot even pass the Republican base test?
Typical Obama rhetoric but full of flaws in respect to truth. You'll find in the next few days many of the things Obama stated were not true, but conservatives will realize rhetoric is much more important than truth to the Liberals once again. The 1/10,000,000 percent of the people in this country that will read this will still be in the dark. Sorry, I over exaggerated on the number of people that will read this. Just saying. The little argument about keeping some troops in Iraq was one for starters.
Also, Obama has run around the country bragging about how he got the troops out of Iraq, but the agreement was made between Bush and Iraq before Obama was even elected president. All he did was follow the agreement. If McCain had been elected we would have removed the troops from Iraq on the same time schedule, so Obama uses the previous president's agreement as his success. Wish he would take credit for the request for security since April 2012 from Chris Stevens and not providing it for him. He has this bad habit of taking credit for only the good things and blaming others and other things for his failures.
Barack Obama, You Might Be a Sociopath…
http://rogueoperator.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/barack-obama-you-might-be-a-sociopath/
WHITE HOUSE INSIDER NEWS – New Information Confirms Bin Laden Report From 2011
http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/04/26/white-house-insider-news-new-information-confirms-bin-laden-report-from-2011/
Are you totally insane, Sixpick? McCain would have pulled all the troops out of Iraq? No way! He'd have forces there forever, ala Korea. Just look at his comments these days. He wants to fight Syria and Iran - NOW!
McCain said he wasn't going to follow the agreement put into place by Bush. And Romney did state that he did not agree with pulling troops out of Iraq- that he would have left 10-30k- in the primary debates. I can understand why you're confused, however, because he then back peddled that statement immediately. The problem with "fact checking" Romney is that it depends on how much of the benefit of the doubt you give him. Do you go from the last time he back peddled or the initial statement that he made?
This request went to Deputy Director Lamb and was never responded to. If it was never responded to then it didn't go up the chain of command. Sorry, but that's how the chain of command works. You can't blame someone for something they never heard about. Additionally that security request was not in Benghazi and had it been fulfilled it would have in no way impacted the events in Benghazi. That was for increased security in Triopli, Libya which is over 100 miles away from Benghazi. And it was not made by Chris Stevens, it was made by the head of the security task force in Tripoli.
Received phone call from Tom Donilon who stated that the President made a decision with regard to AC1 [Abbottabad Compound 1]. The decision is to proceed with the assault.
The timing, operational decision making and control are in Admiral McRaven’s hands. The approval is provided on the risk profile presented to the President. Any additional risks are to be brought back to the President for his consideration. The direction is to go in and get bin Laden and if he is not there, to get out. Those instructions were conveyed to Admiral McRaven at approximately 10:45 am.
Do right wingers ever read the articles they link before making claims about them?
This is how all missions are carried out by the military, for the record. But I do love that the last little portion is highlighted as though it were a part of the initial CIA document that blasts Obama as having given operational command...to the operational commander...so that if something went wrong he could shift blame.
No doubt, Romney won all three debates. It's over for Obama.
Sure! Robme won hands down! That is, if you live in an alternate universe where unicorns live and chocolate rivers flow!
Or: if you get all your news from fake news.
Independent321: your perception looks very different from early polling.
We need more Coal tenders for the navy! I could not believe that he went with that talking point that has been debunked on every liberal blog and progressive tee vee show since he started using it . He rehearsed this? Same deal as the act of terrorism comment , he walked into it. Sorry there independent , it shows that both you and Romney spend wayyyyy to much time in the faux universe starting to believe what you hear in the bubble
Unicorns do live - I've seen one. Those who fantasize about an external creator inevitably occupy an alternate universe.
Robme wants to be president... well, because he wants to be president (review his final statement). After all, when you've tricked, deceived and robbed the citizenry what else is left?
You really should take off those blinders.
You are getting paid for this right?
I think this is the troll that got experimental braids, and also a degree in backward masking.
I see you've snorted your early morning fairy dust.
Are you smoking weed or something my friend?????
You're silly.
Could you explain your reasoning? Saying something doesn't make it true. How did he win all 3 debates. Most people believe Romney won the first and lost the last two. President Obama beat him on the facts and the ease at which he presented them while Romney agreed with the President on subjects, so how does that make him a winner? He spent a year disagreeing with everything the President said and has done and gets into a debate and agrees with the President's ideas. Why the change in ideas?
Sure he won. Every single debate so far, I see the crowd gather around the President and his wife, and embracing them. Everywhere he goes, people takes off from work and comes out to see him. The early voting and absentee voting are pouring in for him, from overseas and from different, diverse communities.
Sure Mitt won! After he connected Syria to Iran by water, after he pretended now to be pro-choice and catered to woman issues, after he interjected on the world stage and kissed Israel's butt ... Sure he won ...when conservatives continue to hold their nose and wonder if they have gone mad and destroyed themself with this foolish pick.
I'm with Greg on this one. Please explain how you're coming to this conclusion. The analysts and polling reflect that Romney won the first debate and lost the last 2. If you disagree, OK fine, but explain how and why.
Hard to imagine that a foreign policy debate could be a game changer in an election where the economy is number one, but last night probably came very close to shifting the dynamics of this race. President Obama thoroughly outclassed, outgunned, out-maneuvered and generally whipped Mitt Romney. It was almost a complete reversal of Denver, with Mitt looking tired, shaky, disengaged and reluctant to offer anything of substance. The elite pundits are wrong; Obama won big. But foreign policy only has so much influence on swing voters. - progressive
The only problem I see coming out of this is that Romney is going to try to play the "He was such a Bully and beat me up" bit. Which on the face of it at is absolutely ridiculous but it might be enough to keep the momentum of his base going. The thing is Romney needed Obama to look overly aggressive last night. The American people are tired of war and if these things are won or lost on body language and tone them Obama definitely looked aggressive
So Romney is going to portray himself as being a tough defender of the US while whining that a debate opponent hurt his feelings? good luck with that one.
Dragoon, even if he tries that, it won't be a problem. If it convinces anyone, it will only be the Faux "News" lemmings, who were going to vote for him anyway. That kind of weak sniveling and whining would repel far more people than it would attract.
I was hoping Obama would tell Tagg, "take a swing, kid."
Post debate it looked like Tagg apologized. Did you see that?
If he did, then good for him. We all get carried away at times but should have
the "intestinal fortitude" to apologize.
Good that Tagg may have apologized? Will he apologize for owning those voting machines in the swing state of Ohio?
NeedMoreCoffee, you expect too much of Tagg. He can only handle one Decent Gesture per year.
I doubt he will apologize for the voting machines. Ohio's election is going to be the most closely watched process that day, I think (and hope and pray, lol)!!! It's been hidden for a long time, but it's coming out now and getting larger and louder!! I'm hoping Rachel, Ed, Chris or someone at MSNBC REALLY covers this!!
Ed at Freeport (excuse me, Bainport) Ill, on Friday night's show was outstanding!
Yes, Barrack engaged Tagg, and they had a good chat. As a matter of fact, after every single debate, Michelle has walked over, extended her hand to Mitt's family and last night they both interacted with all the children and grandchildren. Some people just have better class and manners.
A Dictatorship Of No Alternative.
After the debate i listened to comments from our supposedly analysts and i kept asking myself "what on earth they are talking about?"Maybe being a foreign born makes me set a higher bar on foreign policy and Economy.
Our culture of perception,credit and calories is killing us--We are living in an epoque of superficialities that forces one to wonder,How low can the bar be set for any candidate seeking public office?
Romney is clearly unqualified for the office he's seeking yet he is running a close race and may win this thing,without articulating any "vision" for this country or presented a road map,besides a return to the Gilded age.
-When i look back at his two main qualifications,as portrayed by his people.
The Olympics--They fail to say that,that cost the taxpayers more than four times the previous four winter olympics combined.With that kind of money,"anybody" could have done the job,you just need to surround yourself with competent people who know what they're doing.
-The MA health care,People fail to realize that he just walked into an open door because the democrats in that state had thinking about it and they had a framework.Plus the fed had to pay for it.
So Romney isn't an astute manager or a leader,as we saw last night,he was clearly out of his league.Agreeing with your opponent on almost everything(even though you've been running around claiming he's a bump and you can do better) means you clearly do not have an alternative and you don't know what to say.If he wins,he wouldn't have the intellectual mindset that elaborated Obama's vision and we'd find out pretty quick that the emperor has no cloth--and that my friend,is when the neocons make their comeback.
As a Democrat,i like tough policy debates,i like my ideas to be challenged,I want the president's ideas to be challenged,because that would help him refine and trim his own thoughts and we didn't get that from Romney in all three debates.
I must say,i was deeply disappointed when i heard Steve Schmidt say Romney looked presidential.Again perception trumps substance and depth of knowledge.
If that doesn't concern you,it should.I hope Americans will fall for this nonsense.
Looking "presidential" and actually being Presidential are vastly different things. Obama IS the President, and while Mr. Romney is an attractive man (in a smarmy way), he does not comport himself in a presidential manner, not in my opinion. Presidents should be clear and steady in their message - and Obama is that. Romney prevaricates, postulates and outright lies to the American people. I am so totally shocked at the polls - goes to show that the general electorate is uninformed and more concerned with style than substance. It is appalling that the average person could get behind an bold-faced liar like Romney.
Romney's character reflects a mulitude of sins in our culture, sins because we're human aren't going away. There will always be people to support someone like Romney, because he gives permission to others who chose to act as he does.
However...
The perfect take-away message from Election 2012 would be that solid upstanding citizens of the United States who do want our nation to move in positive directions will vote and Obama will win, keeping his seat in spite of the right's very lie, every cheat, every bit of misinformation, every Super Pac dollar wasted.
Too bad, though. the Romney mindset appears too molded to learn much of anything.
By "looks presidential" what is generally meant is "he's white".
I watched all three debates so I don't need anyone to tell me what I saw and heard. Last night I saw Romney agreeing with Obama about foreign policy strategies. I think he did so to avoid debating something he knows very little about and it was painfully evident. Romney keeps up his mantra of being a "job creator" without ever giving any specifics. When all else fails he simply says "I know how to create jobs" while the other side of his mouth says "government doesn't create jobs". Romney will say anything. He looked frightened and out of his depth.
Obama has continued Bush's foreign policy and has even been more aggressive than Bush with his undeclared wars with drone strikes. Romney was just agreeing with Obama's advancement of Bush's foreign policy.
"Mr. President, Oslo is calling, they want their Peace Prize back"
Hank-2924329
If after four years you can't articulate or see Obama's foreign policy acumen,then boy we are screwed,because i am sure there are lots of you out there and you guys vote.
Running around saying the Bush's foreign policy thing is what conservatives have left.
That's why the world was laughing at Bush, because he was so articulate in foreign policy?
He was good at dodging shoes on foreign soil, I'll give you that, Hank.
@Kaasan, completing a point you made:
So, Mr. Romney, why do you think you would be effective working in government then?
Imagine how you all would be up in arms if Bush authorized drone attacks for government sanctioned assassinations in Yemen, Libya and Pakistan with hundreds of civilian casualties including killing civilians attending funerals of those the US government just killed. How about if Bush sanctioned killing US citizens? The MSM and all you poseurs on here would be enraged.
Bush was not as articulate as Obama - no one is, however he did not not wage undeclared CIA drone wars with the ferocity that Obama has waged. So I don't disagree with Obama's assumption of Bush's foreign policies. I find so very amusing that y'all don't recognize it when I point this out. I find it amusing that the peaceniks of the left have been muzzled.
This is why Al Qaeda is alive and well and organized the attack on Benghazi.
If you had actually looked into why Barack won the Nobel peace prize you wouldn't be babbling like that. As distasteful as the drone strikes are they are cleaner for all sides then boots on the ground.
So Hank your argument here is that you're the same hypocrite because you weren't bothered by Bush policies, but you're bothered by Obama policies? So you're as bad as the liberals you're deriding? Interesting.
No I am making the point that I am OK with BO's foreign policy. I am pointing out the irony that the Nobel Peace Prize winner has embraced Bush's foreign policy of nation building and spreading democracy in the middle-east. BO's use of drone strikes in sovereign countries in which we have not declared war or have had Congressional authorization could not have happened if Bush were to employ this or when Romney is President. The peacenik left and mainstream media would be all up in arms if a Republican President sanctioned these drone killings.
Thats why I am OK with Romney bear-hugging BO's foreign policy last night because BO's foreign policy is Bush's foreign policy on steroids.
then boy we are screwed,because i am sure there are lots of you out there and you guys vote.
Yup, I have voted early and will vote often.
Running around saying the Bush's foreign policy thing is what conservatives have left.
Would you say Jon Stewart is a conservative? He just said in tonight's broadcast at the end of his A block, "All in all last night made a fine a fine conclusion though to the trilogy of debates between the two candidates' sincere belief in a peaceful world and their eager acceptance of remote controlled hell-fire drones to achieve that end.
We learned that Mitt Romney has basically come around to Barack Obama's position on foreign policy and Barack Obama has pretty much come around to the Bush Administration's policy on aggression overseas."
I rest my case.
Last night on just about every subject the President would announce US policy and why the policy exists. Romney would then yammer on and on in response and then agree with the President. Sometimes, when Romney got the question first he would yammer on and on saying nothing, then the President would do his President thing and Romney would say "me to." Frankly, I have never heard so many words used to say "me too."
After the debate Richard Engle told us that the President had made nuanced news.
By the way, telling the DOD it is going to get an unrequested and unneeded raise in the mist of cuts in other discretionary funding might sound good inside the beltway, but outside certain zipcodes in the DC area Romney's position on the defense budget goes over like a lead balloon.
I took a huge breathe of relief when I heard Reverend Al give his take on the debate, because he saw exactly what I did, but he had a more eloquent way of stating it. He put it all into words. Ed the Walrus was right on the mark, and Rachel brought up a very important, if not the most important point about the soldiers who are in Afghanistan and how lightly Romney seems to take the whole business of foreign policy. Every aspect of our Country and world is important, there isn't one subject that the American people think about more than any other. We have the ability to take on several responsibilities at once, and our President has showed time and time again just how to manage that. Chris Matthews made a great point about Romney's lack of passion for anything he stands for or believes, whatever that might be, we don't know. Lawrence won the intimidation round with his piercing eyes and lazer like attention when it came to interviewing mere mortals. Chris Hayes is as always razor sharp and he reminds me of a new set of encyclopedias, very exciting.
"The larger takeaway for voters is that the Republican candidate just doesn't seem to care -- and also doesn't think he has to care."
Of course he doesn't have to care- because the voters don't care.
After four years Obama hasn't parted the Red Sea or delivered Cold Fusion, so it is time to vote for the White Guy.
You see the point here....there's folks that clearly see the inequities and the false representation of this guy, Mitt Romney...
But that does'nt matter...truth or justice, or even competency for the job of President don't matter....it's just a case of "putting the 'white' back in the White House".
You people truely disgust me!!
Gregharris with all due respect what Day was saying was snark/sarcasm.
It's like a no miss. Day says something snarky and someone completely falls into the Sarchasm.
Day - You are a racist Troll - Stop feeding Him!!!
LOL HANK. You know what a "Sarchasm" is? It's the vast pit separating sarcasm from the one who gets it. You just fell in.
And way to capitalize "Him". I didn't know Day was a deity. Maybe we should start a Holy Church of Day.
HA!HA! AnnaBe - Gotcha!
You fell for my sarcasm of sarcasm!!! How deep is that Sarchasm???
Oh it just doesn't end....
it was a continuance of the same strategy (Gov. Romney). He has little to no personal convictions that can be interpreted as his own. What seems clear to me is that the Rep party knows that their ideology is outdated so they are attempting to either buy the election or outright steal it with different methods. They are not being honest and I doubt the American public is fooled. The approach toward this President appears to be less ideological as it disdain at was demonstrated in the second debate when Mr Romney say "hold on a minute, you'll get your chance". smh. (when did they start talking to the President of the United States like that?)
Romney was petulant and prissy. His blurting at the president made him look foolish and immature.
His eyes are starting to flip me out, especially when he gets interrupted.They start turning in different directions, as if he's lost radio transmission. It must be those cheap batteries.
Ah well, I watched Romney's facial expressions. They were very different last night. His features were contorted, his face was extremely pinched up. For the first 30 minutes and then piodically through-out, I kept thinking he was going to belch or that he was in pain. When his eye brows were raised, his mouth was normal, but when his brows were scrunched, his entire face was in a pinch and his eyes were "crazy eyes" I think he looked uncomfortable.
His language was crazy too, "bad guys...we're going to kill all those bad guys!?"
The Rev. was right on the money last night when he said Romney sounded like he wanted to fix/ help the entire world... feed the poor, educate women, grow their economy...in other countries, but what about here, in the good old US? No government help for us, just cut out all programs that help the poor.
Have a look at that "horses and bayonets" clip again; watch it through Romney's lead-up and the President's response. At the exact moment that phrase is uttered, Romney's eyes go from clear and focused to a series of rapid eye blinks. Once you notice it, it's really quite marked.
It's like he heard a meme escape into the wild at that moment, and you could see the panic from that point.
A good psychologist or psychiatrist would be able to measure the panic from that.
Nefarious Wheel: ..those were my thoughts exactly.
Obama at times showed frustration but remained calm and focussed. Romney could NOT control his facial contortions. He looked crazy!
HIS ANGER IS RIGHT BELOW THE SURFACE, CONTROLLED BUT CLEARLY VISIBLE.
Just goes to prove that being wealthy solves nothing. Mitt isn't happy, he isn't content, he isn't connected, his heart is off-line, and his brain is soft.
Yeah, Mitt Romney has an elevator in his garage, and an empty soul in his chest. Being president won't change that, it'll only change life for the rest of us.
Les Miserables.
"Following its defeat in the election of 2008, the Republican Party has been engaged in the healthy process of re-examining and re-organizing its political priorities. Rescued from destruction and once safely upon the relief train, the Republican Party has had the opportunity --- the luxury in fact --- to sit down, relax and catch its breath. What it had just been through, and put the nation through, was indeed traumatic. Once the picture stopped spinning, there would be time for a shave, a shower, a hot meal and a beverage. It could re-group. It would thereafter claim a re-doubled effort on the elusive goal of smaller government."
This has been the stated goal since Barry Goldwater, the conservative icon, and the election of 1964. But, while running on a platform of limited government, have ordinary citizens ever gotten limited government from the Republicans?
Read more at
http://lifeamongtheordinary.blogspot.com/2012/10/recent-currents-from-tea-party-to-2012.html
Historical revisionism...I know after reading Nineteen Eighty Four, it's Orwell on the brain. Citizens United, ALEC, all sounds pretty Orwellian to me.
Smaller government? By mandating the personal health choices of every woman in America? By advocating a hundreds of completely unconstitutional changes in the voting laws?By too many more ridiculous fascist examples? You're silly.
Sorry, but I am unlikely to be impressed by anything the Tea Party or ALEC have to say.
Watching a pissed off Scarborough whine about killing a few civilian's in drone attack's.He hate's that,but he does'nt mind killing thousand's of American's if the health care act is repealed.Amazing!
On Fox debate poll last night, the vote slowly turned. With base voting it started out for Romney. By midnight, the final tally registered Obama 59.4, Mitt 40. Even on Fox, Romney lost.
I watched a few moments of Fux this a m to hear them fact check POB about less 'horses and bayonets' and their debunk "was a tweet from a marine reminding them that the marines still use bayonets". Imho Mitt is still trying to sell his land of milk and honey to lactose intolerant diabetics.
I turned them on for about 2 seconds last night, all I heard was Romney won and the President acted desperate. I said "No, no, no President Obama won and Romney and Fox and friends are desperate." Do they really have friends?
The bayonets and marines meme started last night on social networks. I seem to remember our special forces guys in 2001-2002 taking riding lessons because horses were the best way to get around the mountains of Afghanistan, being narrower and nimbler than Hummvees.
Obama said fewer, not none is the antidote.
Romney sees the world through the eyes of a CEO--"How can I benefit?"
And to make sure he doesn't come across as totally self-absorbed--"Israel!"
Exactly! If he can't make money off this sale, he's not interested.
independ321 you obviously didn't have your ears attached to your brain to comprehend what either candidate said.
And you, Barbara Jakopac, obviously don't understand that you don't score points by insulting people. How very childish!
It puzzles me how this race can be virtually a dead heat. Is there that much hate and stupidity in this country?
I'm not willing to write off half the nation as having such dark intentions. So I'd call it fear, Quazarz, mainly fear of death. Among the reasons why so many people refuse to hear other opinions or face facts, is the notion that progressive ideals are in direct conflict with religion, and that the left will kill god. There's the sanctity of these deserving individuals route to that magic Jesusland called heaven at stake here, and much of what I understand of conservatisim, aside from taxes, is their need for reassurance that this life we humans so callously mess up, is not all there is.
Fox and other conservative outlets are insidiously clever about not challenging the religion fantasy, and using God and patriotism as cover, get to machine any ugly greedy agenda they want. So as long as folks remain convinced this or that ancient tome is the passkey to life eternal, we'll have these democratic wars and these regression politics.
Sadly, YES!
Vlamb is right. Sadly, that is true. Our education system has seriously dumbed down our people. Otherwise, why would Limbaugh, Beck and Coulter be able to make a living with their outrageous routines?
you really should Benen, get that clip of Maddow from last night where she explains, in great detail, while changing your mind about issues is one thing, denying you said what you've been running on for YEARS, is quite something else.
Maddow was on fire, and that clip of her deserves further exposure.
You are so right !! The whole MSNBC coverage is great. I also loved her opening tonight. Finally someone has said outloud things I have been thinking and trying to express . I try not to yell at my television but I found myself throwing my hands in the air and yelling "Hallelujah!!!"
Rachel is right...it's a matter of character...Mr. Romney has none.
Did you catch Ann Romney at the end. You could see her ice up standing next to Michelle. And she kept trying to get her husband off the stage but, because the Obamas were continuing to (genuinely) interact with the audience, the Romney's had to grin and bear it.
The Mitt's simply have no class.
It's hard to stomach the idea that these two have a chance to darken the honorable tradition of our nation's White House and blacken the noble intention of a government for and by the People the Obamas currently keep alight.
I thought it very telling that while Romney was basking in the familial love-fest ("look at how many people love me!!"), Obama & Michelle went over to the edge of the stage and started shaking hands. Within seconds, Mitt had dashed over to do the same. What a childish mope.
Oh, he understands alright. He just doesn't CARE... BIG Difference.
Going back and forth between the Giants vs Cards at AT&T park....and the debates...I found the final scores of both events to be the same...."Giants win 9-0 and are going to the World Series....Obama wins 9-0 and is going to stay in the White House!!!
It truely was the "Blowout in Boca"....
did romney realize he can't continue to make arguments based on the alternate reality of fox news conservative world?
See Reference #21
His comments about Reagon and Baker omgoodness, can he tell the truth about anything..but wait, I blame his team of advisors...they are feeding him crap and do have a problem with it...I guess we are suppose to be stupid and not realize that he doesn't know how to tell the truth...he's weak on all levels...commander in chief..I don't think so...dog walker...yes..
he aint walking MY dog
DOG WALKER? OMG!
Remember when he tied Seamus to the top of his car???
http://www.dogsagainstromney.com/
NEVER leave this guy alone with a dog!
My concern is that some voters thinks this election is all about jobs.
There is a lot at stake in the election and Mitt Romney scares me.
I surely hope the undesided voter does not look at this debate and beieve what Romney said...That would be sad.