Google Maps
Way back in February, I remember hearing Mitt Romney claim that Syria is Iran's "route to the sea."
Even at the time, it was immediately laughable. Iran and Syria don't share a border, and Iran already has two long coastlines. I remember thinking to myself, "Well, that's embarrassing. I bet Romney doesn't screw that one up again."
And yet, eight months later, there he was in last night's debate, saying the exact same thing.
"Syria is Iran's only ally in the Arab world. It's their route to the sea."
Look, this isn't complicated. For one thing, there are large countries in between Iran and Syria; one is not a route for the other.
For another -- and this is key -- Iran has a massive coastline and its own navy. Iranians don't need to hopscotch over other countries in order to reach water; they merely have to go to their own north or south coasts. There are landlocked countries in the region, but Iran isn't one of them.
I don't think it's too much to ask that if you're running for president, and you're participating in a debate over foreign policy, you take a minute to look at a map of the Middle East. Indeed, I'd put this in the "bare minimum" category.
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"Aw, no fair, Benen! I didn't know we were going to use MAPS in this debate!"
Maps are so conventional, so old-fashioned. In these modern times, we don't need maps - We can get there in our mind, with the help of interpretive dance.
To be fair, many Americans had NO IDEA where Iraq was before we invaded that nation. Do you really think that the low-information group uses "MAPS", this is the same group against education so Mitt can screw up the "geography" all he wants to, they don't know and don't care!
I have yet to find the map of the Earth before all the Continents separated. I've seen one at the Grand Canyon but, can't find one elsewhere. Good luck Benen, trying to fold that map back up. Tehran by the sea, I wonder what their beaches are like?
Maps have a known liberal bias.
Perhaps you are forgetting the power of the Etch A Sketch! -Kevo
The new and improved Etch-a- Sketchy. Which now comes in many styles, religions , forms, colors, prices. You name it they even come in new designer colors, for the rich and famous , along with your very own traveling case. Don't forget it's little side kick, Etch-a- Ryan. This one includes a Math component, which never really adds up, but have fun anyway. Romney does.
What do you expect he sees the middle east in terms of Israel and the Levant. Anything else is outside his field of vision. When he was talking about north Africa I think he was just spitting back the names of countries he hadn't heard of till last week in debate prep and the only reason he knows anything about Pakistan is that he has considered outsourcing companies there
Obviously, to Dan Senor the only sea that is the Mediterranean Sea.
Holy crap is Shooter grasping at straws. Obama's supposed 57 state gaffe was nothing of the sort. It was a joke. If you watch the tape, which I have, you can see that Obama's smiling wryly. He was joking because he had been traveling around the country so much, it seemed as if he had been to 57 states. But, predictably, Republicans went crazy over it. The idea that anyone in this country thinks that Obama doesn't know, or forgot, how many states are in the union is beyond laughable. And another thing, you are criticizing Democrats for highlighting Romney's middle east map gaffe, as if that is the only fault we were able to find with his performance last night. Again, laughable. Check out the blog entries before and after this one; there was no shortage of serious, substantive issues on which Romney was completely wrong, lied through his crooked teeth, or simply agreed with the President. It was a pathetic display from a man who wants to be the leader of the free world.
This is worthy of a post?
This proves Obama's toast.
How? Shooter you didn't watch the same debate everybody else watched last night. Mitt the Unsteady proved he is Mitt the unready.
Mornin Shooter, How are things on your planet?
Shooter's sweating as much as Romney was last night! His go to guy doesn't even know where Iran is. Yep, them's foreign policy bonafides.
It's hard to determine exactly which one of Romneys screw-ups should be deemed the most worthy for a post...The senseless blathering, the over-aggressive puffery on China's currency, the over-aggressive puffery on Russia, the lack of understanding of the various relationships in the ME...So many to choose from.
Well, at least he didn't screw up on Libya again...Mostly by keeping his mouth shut this time, instead of putting his foot in it.
This was a comment worth reading?
This proves Romney's base is nutty.
Really? He's a lot more ready than Obama was. More importantly, Romney will backstop Israel.
Having read the additional comments, it looks like the echo chamber here has produced epistemic closure.
Rochester be nice Shooter works very hard everyday to remind us we're the ones with sense and sanity.
He's sorta like that weird senile uncle at family dinners...just keep him away from the knives
When I add up all that stuff that was not important and that did not matter in the past year, because you did not like your candidate's performance, there is not much left for him to do as a president if - IF - he is elected.
Yes, because when your guy wants to go to war with a country, it's handy to know where the eff it actually is.
Besides, Shooter baby, the Israeli defense minister said not that long ago that the US had never shown itself to be as supportive as it has under Obama.
Blanks doesn't think it's important that our president knows basic geography? No, he probably doesn't need to know where a country is when he sends in ships, the Navy will have maps. But, if I was the leader of a country in the region, I would think he was unprepared, uninvolved....or just plain stupid.
What surprises me is that Shooter seems like a fairly intelligent troll, yet he doesn't notice the complete incompetence of the man. Rmoney won't do an "apology tour", he'll do an "ignorant and I don't care" or "I'm rich and only need to know where the Cayman Islands are" tour.
Dragoon, I suppose the responsible thing would be to stop feeding the troll.
In summary: Realists form their opinions on history... nutjobs like Shooter recreate history (and maps) based on their opinions.
Morning Blankman :-)!
So nice of you to show up spouting your nothings as usual. Please google Sensata, it's a company partially owned by Bain Capital, you know the place that Rawmoney still gets a check from - they're closing down and had the nerve to bring the Chinese replacements over here so that the American workers could train them right before they loose their jobs! That vulture capitalist model is exactly what was perfected under Rawmoney and under a Rawmoney Presidency would be unleashed on US all! Not only is your boy NOT likely to "deal with China" in a way that helps working Americans but that "model" would leave US all on the unemployment lines!
As far as helping Israel, they don't need our help, we've already given them nuclear weapons and they have proven their warmongering abilities on the Palestinians! And if you really want to know what's going on over in the Middle East for real with Israel and its neighbors here is a link:
http://www.wrmea.com/
As for his "foreign policy" experience - just this past summer Mittens went to Europe and Israel, he pissed them all off and they are praying that WE don't elect another dimwitted selfish idiot into the Presidential office!
Shooter
The only thing Mitt is going to do, in regards to Israel. Is let Netanyahu talk him into fighting his war with Iran for him, while he sits back and does nothing.
The fact that Mitt has no idea where Iran in on the map is news, for one very good reason. One would think the guy running for POTUS would know where these countries are. That he keeps saying are a threat to our National Security. And only a moron would think him not knowing, was a waste of time reporting on.
Rochester...see your catching on, besides serious things demand occasional comic relief or people would just throw their computers out fourth floor windows. It would be a public safety nightmare!
It's interesting to watch denial. Have you all forgotten?
"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." --at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon -Obama
So let's see... which gaffe do you think the American people will forgive faster? Not being intimately familiar with Syria, or one's own country?
Shooter saying something once is a gaffe. The fact that Mitt has been saying this about Syria and Iran since April. Excludes it from being a gaffe. And firmly places it in the category of "He has no clue wtf he's talking about."
Hello, Hello, Hello, is anybody in there? You are just coming through in waves, your lips move but, I can't hear what you say.
That doesn't even qualify as a gaffe, Calvin. Saying fifty when you meant to say forty is human. It's even more understandable when you are talking about what a whirlwind tour you've been on and are visibly tired.
Romney possibly confusing Iraq for Iran, twice, separated by months...forgetting about Basra...not really the same.
Why oh why didn't Mitt use his hand for the crib notes like all respectable Republican Candidates.
It was like the Navy ship count. It had been debunked everywhere except in the Faux bubble.
Sorry Willard , this is not talking point central. The whole world is watching
There isn't enough fabric softener in the world for the spin cycle they are going to have to run through on FOX
Oh but there is ...you really should go over to Faux and click on opinion. You will find out EXACTLY how Willard won the debate and how Obama was a lie spoutin' looser.
Where they answer the phone Hello , , alternate reality may I help you ?
Mitt Romney has convinced my husband, a lifelong conservative republican, to vote for Obama. He is a Navy vet, and I thought I was going to have to call 911 when Romney began talking about numbers of ships. "How stupid is this guy?" My teenage daughter was even fact checking Romney on his facts. "What is he talking about?" I saw Obama as strong, presidential and also a strong example of what a Commander-in-Chief is. Romney? Ugh.
Remember those old commercials "I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV..."? That is Romney in a nutshell. "I'm not a President, but I would like to play one on TV..." No spine, no backbone and an enormous lack of character. Frankly, he reminds me a lot of Lyle Waggoner playing president on the Carol Burnett show. Or used car salesman, or game show host......NOT the man who we should even THINK about putting in charge of anything.
I'm glad someone else noticed this. Just about fell out of my chair when Romney said "Iran's route to the sea".
Sometimes, he makes Palin look slightly less stoopid when bumbling around in foreign affairs.
My only guess on this is that Romney has been getting all his foreign-policy advice from Iraq-obsessed neocons, but he hasn't been paying much attention because he doesn't really care. Way back when Iraq invaded Kuwait, I seem to recall that part of the motivation was that they were afraid that Kuwait could cut off their access to the sea to export their oil. I know I'm grasping at straws to come up with the most charitable interpretation, but that seems like the only somewhat sane possibility.
The comparison with Palin is apt, though. Romney is as bumbling and incoherent on foreign policy as Palin was; the only reason he hasn't gotten the same treatment is that he speaks in complete sentences and he "looks presidential" -- i.e., he's a white male who looks good in a suit.
This is like man o live to watch these Republicans. These Republicans have got to be majorly flippy coo coo that do not live in any real reality of what life is about. And care to say learn anything well about history. They have Sununu on there who is a lying sack of crap and constantly talk some real off ways that are not even true and than tries to inject things that Romney has never said. Sununu claiming he knows Romney so well is a load of crap and if he actually told the real truth about Romney and the others no one would be voting Republican. Because people would never be putting up with what the Republicans, extremists of hatred, and the extreme wealthy want to do. And on top of it that last debate showed how really incompetent Romney is for being a President. President Obama won that debate hands down and showed how Romney again is a big liar and just looking to confuse people into thinking Romney is a nice guy and would never do anything to hurt anybody. Wrong Romney your actions have spoken volumes you power craving, hypocrite, arrogant, corrupt, greedy, and deceiving bastard. The light never lies when it speaks and it has definitely called you out for what you really are plus all those others who are right in there with you.
Deb--- Why is Romney a liar? You Libs do the Bark. Here I'll start one with you. The Lilly Ledbetter act was nothing but show for Obama. Prove me wrong!!!!!!!! She had poor Liberal Representation (Attorney) period........... One other, where did Obama win on this debate???????
horses and bayonets
globalove!
Weak statement and lost for words from Obama. Special forces did use horses in Afghanistan and yes the marines use bayonets. Obama lost period.
Lilly lets women sue their employer at the time they discover the discrimination (it won't be 'too late' any longer). They don't need to worry about any statute of limitation restrictions as much or at all anymore. That's called progress!
Why is Romney a liar? Ask him - maybe it's because he has no actual agenda he can publicly mention prior to the election, maybe because it's his best chance to get elected; pick one. If your question of Deb was to provide proof of Romney's lies, well do you actually expect every post to provide such proof? You do realize you're on a site that has chronicled his lies for the last 39 weeks - why don't you go through them and prove them wrong. Let's say you actually do debunk half of them, that leaves hundreds of proven lies - why would you find that acceptable in your candidate? Is the pigment of the incumbent's skin the over-riding factor?
One other, where did Obama not win this debate??????
Our most excellent President said "fewer" horses and bayonets, not none. "Fewer", not none. And he is 100% correct.
And basing our perceived naval strength strictly on the number of vessels is silly. One 21st Century destroyer would wipe out an armada of 1917 whatever you got. An aircraft carrier would wipe out 10 armadas.
Building a paint by numbers fleet for the sake of building a fleet sounds like out of control zombie military/industrial procurement at it's finest.
FUBARRomney got his butt kicked, period.
I think Bronzestar fell asleep on his bayonet.
A P.S. to bronzestar77, if your handle refers to actual service in the military and a recognition awarded, thank you for your service. It is much appreciated.
via Wikipedia: The Bronze Star Medal is an individual military award of the United States Armed Forces. It may be awarded for acts of heroism, acts of merit, or meritorious service in a combat zone. When awarded for acts of heroism, the medal is awarded with the "V" device.
The medal is sometimes referred to as the Bronze Star and is the fourth-highest combat decoration and the ninth highest U.S. military award in order of precedence. Officers from the other federal uniformed services are also eligible to receive the decoration if they are militarized or detailed to serve with a service branch of the Armed Forces.[
Bronzestar77: When a person like Romney has flipped flopped on everything he has said constantly everything he says than is a lie, because with all this confusion he creates you cannot even tell what the actual truth is and what he would even actually do. Thus all you can do is go by his actions and that does speak volumes. Romney has not done really anything for anybody, except himself and what he dictates to make huge wealth for himself. Romney is a MAJOR LIAR!!!
You have to be living in a delusional fantasy land not to see what Romney has been doing. How much are they paying you Bronzestar77 to be here?
I just wish Obama had taken the time to point out these facts. It would've been the end of Mitt. It certainly would've wiped that sanctimonious smirk off his face.
Obama should have asked Romney to cancel the transfer of Sensata to China since he does own 51% of the stock! Put your money (literally) where your mouth is!!
"We're not going to let this campaign be dictated by the cartographers"
Romney FELL FLAT on his face! He claimed Syria was Iran's route to the sea -- for pete's sake! Has he never even heard of the Persian Gulf or the Straits of Hormuz??!! What kind of idiot is that.
What he did show us was that being a successful businessman doesn't take much in the way of knowledge of world affairs in any serious way.
He sounded absolutely like an hysteric screaming "the Middle East is in flames!" over and over again. (??!!)
He had less than nothing and its showed up big time.
Actually, Romney said at least twice that the Middle East is "in tumult." He seemed to like that word and had no idea he was using it incorrectly.
Basic geography fail plus basic grammar fail. You have earned the Democrats' contempt for you, Mittens. You have no one to blame but yourself.
I think Mitt was just trying to use a bad metaphor. It was like saying Syria is Iran's foothold in the region. Of course with Iran having long coastlines, it comes off as foolish
Syria - between Iraq and a wet place.
I thought I also heard him claim he could see Russia from his house!
I thought I heard him say he could see Iran's wet spot from his house.
two choices: his staffers either don't care that he appears as an idiot, or Romney doesn't listen to them. It does not make the man much of a presidential candidate.
good to see that shoots is just as willfully ignorant as ever. It's like having big flag on his back so everyone knows that some conservatives aren't terribly bright when it comes to forums and especially forums that have members that value facts and reality.
Obama's "We have less horses and bayonets in the military too.." comment was price-less! He had to explain to Romney that we actually have ships that go under water, they're called submarines!!
Yup, Romney's naval battle ship was sunk on his, "we have fewer naval ships in our military now."
I thought his pinched, contorted face was going to implode.
How about when Romney went on about going into other countries and fixing them?? He wants to educate women, feed the poor, expand other countries economies with government money but here in the US, no, you can not fix our economy with government monies, NO... that's government welfare.
I'm sure if he was called out on that, he'd say, "I didn't say that!"
Maps have a well known liberal bias.
Seriously though. The idea of R-Money as commander in chief?
I have to say, even Shooter of lame-assery and trollery fame is more qualified.
LMAO when Mr Binder showed up to Dis Mr Romney's close. Guess Mr Binder sayes" no map for you"
Ann, Gosh Darnit, for Pete's sake you forgot to pack the maps. That dogs' going up on the roof. But, Dad! I would have been mortified if my Dad put Frankenweanie on the roof of the car.
The likeliest reason Romney said Syria was Iran's route to the sea was that he mixed up Iran with Iraq.
Which still is not a good thing, because he can't tell one country from another.
Mitt understands that at night Iran moves around so it is understandable he gets confused.
As Texas is San Francisco's gateway for it's critical access to The Gulf of Mexico.
Last night, after the debate, Rachel and a friend of mine - retired Army Special Forces, Lt. Colonel - were the only people appearing to have caught Mitt's big mistake.....see his comments below detailing the military significance of such a lack of awareness:
He did say that Syria was Iran's only ally and access to the sea. MSN caught it. Iraq is in between Syria and Iran. This blunder is major to a military man like me because it shows that Romney does not understand the strategic significance of the Straits of Hormus. We have at least two, if not three, carrier task forces in the Persian Gulf (which Iran borders) to insure that the oil flow to the world is not cut off if Iran decides to blockade the straits. The Iranians have gun boats, a couple of submarines, mine layers, and missile batteries at the straits. This is significant and these civilian journalists are clueless!! If the Iranians block the Straits of Hormus, oil goes to $200.00 per barrel and the stock market crashes!!! Really! No, this man is not, is not, qualified to be Commander in Chief!!!
Perhaps Romney was thinking of the ancient Persians, who needed to reach the Mediterranean (the sea at the time) in order to attack the Greeks.
Steve: If by "the sea" Romney means "the Mediterranean" (and by extension, the Atlantic), then Romney's statement is substantively correct. There's a lot to criticize Romney for, but I don't believe this is.
Okay, let's pretend you're correct; then what is Iran's route to Syria, since they do not share a border? I don't think Iraq would cooperate and I don't think that's an understatement.
Also, what exactly would they do in the Mediterranean, and by extension, the Atlantic - send warships to the east coast of the U.S.? Imagine an Iranian "fleet" leaving Syria enroute to the U.S. sailing passed Greece, Italy, France and Spain and Portugal; something tells me those countries would cooperate with us and that they wouldn't get too far.
The part of this that needs more underscoring is that this isn't just a gaffe with no consequences - it's his reasoned "strategic thought", which was simultaneously a) based on geography and b) done while getting the map wrong.
While we're on the middle east.
As I recall Romney chided Obama for not making progress on the Israeli - Palestine issue
But recall Romney said this behind closed doors when he was giving his 47 percent speech
"And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there's just no way. And so what you do is you say you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that it's going to remain an unsolved problem. I mean, we look at that in China and Taiwan. All right, we have a potentially volatile situation, but we sort of live with it. And we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve. We don't go to war to try and resolve it."
How do you chide the president for not making progress when your view is that the only solution is "kicking the ball down the field" and hope something will happen.
How does Romney stand up with a straight face and do this?