During yesterday's White House press conference, NBC's Chuck Todd tried to pin President Obama down on taxes. "Is there no deal at the end of the year if tax rates for the top 2 percent aren't the Clinton tax rates, period? No ifs, ands, or buts?" Todd went on to ask whether the president was prepared to draw "a red line."
Obama did not, saying instead he's "open to new ideas," and if lawmakers "have a great idea for us to raise revenue, maintain progressivity, make sure the middle class isn't getting hit, reduces our deficit, encourages growth, I'm not going to just slam the door in their face." It led some to suggest the president is already inching towards a major concession, but there's another way to look at this.
These comments came in response to a separate question from Jessica Yellin, who noted that Obama gave Republicans the extension they wanted two years ago, and asked whether the president might accept new revenue from the wealthy through closed loopholes and fewer deductions, rather than higher rates.
Obama said 2010 was "a one-time proposition," and made his position unambiguous: "What I'm not going to do is to extend Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent that we can't afford, and according to economists, will have the least positive impact on our economy."
"I think that there are loopholes that can be closed, and we should look at how we can make the process of deductions, the filing process easier, simpler. But when it comes to the top 2 percent, what I'm not going to do is to extend further a tax cut for folks who don't need it, which would cost close to a trillion dollars.
"And it's very difficult to see how you make up that trillion dollars -- if we're serious about deficit reduction -- just by closing loopholes and deductions. The math tends not to work."
This wasn't laying the groundwork for caving; this was giving Republicans a homework assignment they can't complete.
In effect, Obama was establishing the parameters for the rest of the debate -- if congressional GOP leaders are so desperate to shield millionaires and billionaires from paying a higher top marginal rate, they should try to find a comparable amount of savings from loopholes and deductions. But therein lies the point: there aren't enough loopholes and deductions to make up the difference. The arithmetic just isn't there.
Which makes Obama's proposed solution -- Clinton-era rates on income above $250,000 -- practically unavoidable. As a consequence, Republicans' challenge isn't to find imaginary savings in the tax code, it's to decide whether to force higher taxes on everyone because they're so committed to tax breaks for wealthy people who don't need them.
What's more, Obama already looked to the next step, arguing yesterday that if/after Republicans agree to freeze lower rates on the middle class, then policymakers can tackle a larger, comprehensive tax-reform plan, which he said he's eager to do.
There just isn't much in the way of wiggle room here; Obama said the top rates have to go up, and also said there's no math that would allow an alternative. As best as I can tell, the president seemed quite resolute on this, leaving the ball in his rivals' court. Indeed, over the next six weeks, there's really only one driving question that needs an answer: just how much damage are Republican lawmakers prepared to do in order to protect the wealthiest 2 percent?
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A landslide election defeat has apparently changed nothing for the Republican Party. Americans delivered a sweeping mandate to politicians in Washington, demanding that they govern responsibly and honor the reelection of President Obama. So far, the GOP is up to its old tricks of protecting billionaires at the expense of the middle class and the entire nation's fiscal stability. When will they understand that tax cuts for the rich cannot be the answer to every policy question posed to them? It's time for these bums to shape up or get thrown out. - progressive
What we need to do is extend the campaign into the most vulnerable GOP held House seats and focus on 2014. Canvass for new voters to register and get them to the polls; the long game. We need to flip the house.
Meanwhile, GOP will dangle tax reform rather than rate increase on top earners as a way to delay, divert, and confuse what is otherwise Obama's clear mandate.
> just how much damage are Republican lawmakers prepared to do in order to protect the wealthiest 2 percent?
I assume this is rhetorical?
Since we default to Clinton rates, they will be with us for a very long time. That should make you folks very happy, yes?
@shooter. That would be a good start but is not enough. We need to get the top marginal rate over 50% again. It's been proven that we have the most stable and largest growth in the economy over the long term. When the top rate is under 50% it produces a bubble that will pop in the short term. When that bubble pops, it doesn't affect the top. It hurts the middle class. I personally have no problem with my taxes going up a little if it helps society. But I already pay 35% percent of my salary in taxes. Look at it this way. If I make $30k a year, after taxes I would have $19k to survive on. If I make $1 million a year and the tax rate for me was still 35% that would leave me with $650k a year to survive off of. Do you see the difference? That top tax rate could go up to 50% and that would still leave me with $500k a year to survive off of. Why should the middle class give up more of that $19k a year? It is a third of what they make already! In the meantime, the rich get a 15% tax rate that is 1/6th of their salary. So, the rich are paying half of what the middle class are paying in taxes. It is time for the rich to pay their fair share. I don't get it, in my above example the rich one would still have all of that money left over. If you can't live off of $500k a year then there is a huge problem.
Republicans take note, even after a clear win and even knowing he can not run again Obama is open to ideas. This is diplomacy in action. This is why he beat you. You have become far too arrogant and refuse to yield even to your own constituency.You are doomed as I see it.Rejoice in the fact that you are now officially the party of racist evangelistic whack jobs.
Obama is merely taking away the Republican argument that he doesn't believe in their magic unicorn. Bring it on, Ryan. Show us how it flies.
Dear Concerned Troll: do us all a favor and go back to peeing on the fire hydrants in wacko world? Do they have fire hydrants in wacko world, or are you all responsible for fighting your fires yourself?
Boehner said last Friday that now is the moment for our president to work to offer a plan that can pass both chambers of Congress. Sequestration ALREADY PASSED BOTH CHAMBERS, Speaker Boehner.
And, it is not a fiscal cliff (thank you Bernanke and MSM), but rather a slope or ramp, since not all cuts occur on January 1. Going down the slope does NOT mean an irreversible choice.....
Thank you Concerned troll boy, for your demonstration of how low one has to flunk the IQ test by to be one of you.
Once the GOP proves once and for all that their real constituency are the millionaire and billionaire donors to their campaigns, their party is dead.
Don't forget that there are 241 millionaires in Congress, me thinkest that they are also protecting their own by their refusal to budge on tax rates going up! Not to mention that they signed that pledge to that odious devil Grover Norquist to never raise taxes!
Shorter Obama:
"Hey, Dummies! You need to lose 20 pounds. Go on a diet, or cut off your head. The choice is up to you."
("Speaking of heads, you may find a horse's head in your bed tonight.")
Unfortunately for the Republicans, their whole "But we thought we were going to win big right up until the very very end!" shtick just reinforces the idea that they Can't Do Math. So maybe, just maybe, their "we have a plan!!" claims will be met with a bit more skepticism from the media.
Well, given that we just had an election, and that the Republicans were continually going on and on about how they had this amazing plan to reduce the deficit and keep tax rates the same, this should be easy for them to....oh wait...
Maybe they didn't really have any idea after all.
Maybe that is why the Republicans and their 'ideas' (or lack thereof) lost...
Good point , lets ask them how that was going to work.
Kind of like one of Johny Macks "secret" plans in 2008
What happens on January 1, 2013? Taxes go up for everybody, but for most people the tax increase will be relatively small. For some the tax increase will be larger but managable. If memory serves for a small group of millionaires and billionaires the tax increase will be dramatic because they will lose their precious capital gains rate. That January 1, 2013 tax increase is automatic. Obama's hands aren't on it. After January 1, 2013, I am sure the President will be available to discuss an Obama tax plan.
That's what I say . Back the MF's into a corner and let them try to vote in a tax break for millionaires or a tax increase on the middle class .
We would be overjoyed to hang that around your neck in 2014
As I see it, the problem with closing loopholes to increase revenue is that the wealthy will just move to different loopholes. Anybody who believes the Republicans will give away all loopholes for the wealthy is dreaming.
This is a one-sided debate. Harry Shearer at least allows us a glimpse of the other side of the issues. TRMS should interview Dr. Stephanie Kelton, University of Missouri Kansas City, and Levy Institute economist, and Modern Monetary Theorist. Here is her interview with Shearer. She makes it clear that we are having the wrong public debate.
'edsiegel' That was incredibly educational.
Hey Republicans - Show me the Middle Class Tax Cut!
You say you are for tax cuts, and now is the time to come through for the Middle Class! Pass the Senate Bill that gives 98% of your constituents a tax cut on January l, 2013!
Tax rates on all of us will go up if this readied Senate Bill is not passed by the House!
Republicans, your whole destiny is before you! Where's Norquist on this? A tax increase on 100% of Americans is just around the corner, and we have a readied Bill that can spare 98% of us a tax hike, and Norquist isn't saying a thing about that?
Hey Grover and your signers - My taxes will go up in January, and I will blame you!
And, you ready?
I will also see that you can't keep your promises as your pledge says no new taxes! WTF do you think 98% of us are gonna feel on Jan. 1st, that we shouldn't have to feel, if only your little club of Republicans will do the right thing and pass the Senate Bill!
Hey Boehner and McConnell, if your obstruction causes a tax hike on 98% of us, we will not look kindly on your Brand for a couple generations! -Kevo
Everyone seems to be forgetting that 47% of us do not pay federal income taxes and therefore our taxes will not go up. 0 x whatever is still 0.
SS receipiants will get a .17% increase in their SS -- only about $25.00 a month but that is still a lot of money going into the economy.
bflynch - Your observation is a bit flawed!
It is only in the minds of the likes of Mitt Romney and his uber rich brethren that 47% of us pay 0% federal income taxes!
Payroll taxes are income taxes, paid by both the employed and the employer. The increase of income taxes will affect a higher paycheck deduction which will in turn lead to a lesser disposable income to be stretched over the same pay period! Now, if one's income is not sufficient, those payroll taxes will be rebated to the earner. But, if an income is above $45,000, and below $125,000 for the individual (and there are millions of us out here), our taxes will be increased!
And, as I stated above, come January 1st, 2013, I, along with millions of Middle Classers will be greatly pissed at the Republican Brand! -Kevo
Can anyone explain to me when enough is enough when it comes to the 1%? I mean, you have the Papa John's dude telling his franchisees to cut worker's hours to avoid Obamacare yet he lives in a 40,000 sq. ft. home on a golf course and moat, 22 care garage (and, I'm sure he has 22 cars to fill it). The coal magnet that immediately fired over 100 employees because Obama won the election. The list goes on. Now the President wants to make good on the promise he consistently ran on during the election and the GOP is again balking at raising the tax rate 4% for those 1%ers. They poop 1% of their wealth every morning. So they can't get that 23rd car or 6th home....cry me a river.
Mr, Papa said previously that Obamacare would raise the price of his pizza 11 cents. He is a liar.
Not to mention his pizza is baaaaaad.
He stated that it would raise the cost of his pizza 14 cents per each pie, but his company actually raised the price by 20 cents per pie to make a 6 cent profit by his own admission. Forbes did an in depth analysis of this and found that to keep everything the same as is (or at least as it was at the time of the analysis) in terms of profits and number of employees working Papa Johns would only have to actually raise the price per pie by 5 cents each. The 20 cent raise, in other words, had absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare. It's an increase that Papa Johns has been wanting to do that had zero to do with the health care reform bill. For the record that same article stated that the total cost of coverage would be between 8 and 12 million dollars for his current staff, but they would be raising roughly 32 million dollars in revenues. Which means they are, by their own admission, making anywhere from a 20 million dollar to 24 million dollar profit in doing this. Obamacare, in other words, actually made Papa Johns money instead of costing them money (that is assuming they don't experience fallout from people boycotting the company as a result of this asinine increase). The company now cutting employee hours so that they no longer have to pay health insurance, likewise, is just another ploy to raise more revenues for the business that they don't actually have to raise.
I will not at all be surprised to find out that the reason for the increase has to do with mismanaged funds or other problems that the company is trying to keep from the public view. Everyone remember this post if Papa Johns goes bankrupt. I can almost guarantee you they'll blame Obamacare and I am telling you now that had nothing to do with it.
No. SATSQ, &c., &c.
I so wish this amazingly tough Obama had been in charge before the public option had been stripped from Obamacare...
For us to think, that the republicans, will work on this tax plan, is wishing you had some of the cheese from the moon. There is no cheese on the moon, and the republicans will not work on the tax plan. They will for ever be labeled the party of the rich, by the rich, and only for the rich, so help us, almighty money GOD! Their entire campain was for the rich, like Romney/Ryon, was defeated, with a lop-sided defeat, and they will continue this no matter what the voters voted for. In their minds, only the rich should live in America!!! And the 98% of Americans, should clean their feet with their tears, and thank them for making life in America,like hells center pit
Instead of Clinton era tax rates, they should be called prosperity era tax rates, or the prosperity era tax rates of the 1990s that grew the economy and created a budget surplus
So if I heard/read right the tax increase on the wealthy would bring in $1.6 Trillion over 10 years or about $160 Billion a year. Considering we are averaging over $1 Trillion a year deficits that would cover about a month and a half of a given year's deficit (October was actually $120 Billion over). OK, it's better than nothing, but what about the other 10 1/2 months per year of overspending.
you propose we just throw people out on the streets? that will solve the problem, right? stop giving these leeches a living wage, a roof over their heads, basic preventive health care, and a bite to eat every day. let them fend for themselves like all other animals.
how about 'defense' spending?
how about we, as human beings with a brain, act on more than instinct and impulse and help our fellow american because it's the humane thing to do?