Jim Beckel/AP
First up from the God Machine this week is a religio-political story out of Oklahoma that's more amusing than most.
A Ten Commandments monument is up on the grounds of the state Capitol, but it didn't pass spell check.
"Remember the Sabbeth day, to keep it holy," reads one.
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidseruent," reads the last one.
Obviously, the Ten Commandments monument is itself problematic as a matter of constitutional law and the separation of church and state. Though the religious display was financed with private funds, its placement on the grounds of the state Capitol suggests officials are endorsing one faith's religious text over all others -- and legally, government is supposed to be neutral on matters of religion, not playing favorites.
What's more, note that Oklahoma's state-endorsed religious display uses the Protestant version of the Ten Commandments, not the Catholic or Jewish versions, and no other tradition's tenets will receive equal treatment.
But even putting the legality aside, it didn't occur to folks to check the spelling of the Ten Commandments? It's one thing to fail to read the Constitution or court rulings on church-state separation, but it's another to fail to read the sacred text you're trying to promote.
Those responsible for the granite monument have promised to fix the errors.
Also from the God Machine this week:
* A discouraging court ruling last night: "A federal judge Friday night sided with a Christian publishing company in a lawsuit against the requirement included in Obamacare to provide co-pay free contraception to employees. US District Court Judge Reggie B. Walton issued a temporary stay on the rule. The company, Tyndale House Publishers, sued to be exempt from providing any contraception it equated with abortion, including Plan B and intrauterine devices (neither is actually an abortifacient)."
* The Rev. Franklin Graham claimed this week that President Obama only won because "evangelicals did not go to the polls." In reality, evangelical turnout went up as compared to 2008, and they voted Republican in greater numbers than four years ago.
* As if Oklahoma's Ten Commandments display weren't troubling enough, a state judge this week ordered a teenager accused of manslaughter to attend church services every Sunday for 10 years (thanks to reader E.W. for the tip).
* Voters in Florida crushed Amendment 8, a ballot measure that would have allowed state officials to use public funds to subsidize religious ministries. Despite the enthusiastic support of the religious right and Roman Catholic leaders, the measure lost 61 of the state's 67 counties en route to an 11-point defeat.
* Note to those using "Jesus" as an online password: it's one of the "most frequently used and easily guessable log-in phrases" (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
* And radical TV preacher Pat Robertson excused David Petraeus' sex scandal this week, arguing that the former CIA director is "a man" who was overcome by "a good-looking lady throwing herself at him."
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Do you think that Rev. Pat is working the refs for his eventual scandal?
I just threw up in my mouth a little just thinking about that scenario.
Sorry, I had the thought, and could not keep the horror to myself.
"he's a man" absolves him of the task of using his mind to control his body, of using his brain to intellectually overcome his instincts, of placing his marital vows over his lust, and for Pat, to put the devils work before the lords?
Okay, sure. Perhaps a stone copy of the ten commandments should be placed on Petraeus' lawn, with an addendum: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidseruent (Oklahoma spelling)...unless you are a man."
So what is the punishment for her then, in this Fox faux-Christian (We don't love the idea of Sharia much) America?
newtons.third - high probability. However, it's more likely the same old "It's God's will, or somebody else's fault!" that fundamentalists around the world fall back on. Eve invented sin. Adam (despite being a man, i.e. rational, not controlled by his glands or the tides) was compelled by the evil woman to eat the apple.
The Teaparty/Taliban are justified in shooting women in the head for disagreeing with the local patriarch because women have this wicked power over men(in spite of the fact that men are rational, not controlled by their hyster).
This has been part of my thought for awhile. The anti-woman feelings from the conservatives (worldwide) may stem from the male thought that a man can't control himself, so a woman has to exhibit that control for both. Whether it is through modesty (burka) or by not trying to enter a "man's" world. Because it is not a man's fault, to paraphrase Raul Julia in "Tequila Sunrise", which way his manhood points. That would be like blaming a compass for pointing North. This has always felt to me as an attempt at a get-out-of-jail-free card, to excuse any poor behavior.
This even plays into the negotiations between the owners and players in professional sports. The owners saying, "players have to stop us from giving them so much money. We can't help ourselves, so you have to stop us instead."
Newtons.third: You have voiced my suspicion exactly.
And I miss Raul Julia.
In moral terms, it's the concept "ought implies can", which means if one cannot do something, they are under no moral obligation. If a man physically just can't control himself, then that conveniently absolves him of blame. So, under Robertson's patriarchal worldview, it's all those shameless hussies who should know better and stop tempting all these poor, helpless men into sin. It's a way to subjugate women by making them the only agents that can be held morally accountable.
Yea, except he led the charge against Bill Clinton during the Lewinski mess. So I guess only conservative Christian men get a pass.
"Forget it, Steve. It's Oklahoma City."
This has been a subject of debate on the Daily Oklahoman web site article as well.. opinions all over the place. It seems, with all we have going on in the state, THIS is what we do...
Oklahoma, land of 3.2 pee water masquerading as "beer" and people who are as dumb as they sound when they open their mouths. Let's remember, they're the southern "individualists" who were so stupid they had to have the government steal the land from the Indians for them.
Oklahoma! A great musical but a lousy State. A place where oil made millionaires of hicks and any tee is full of birds flocking to get the heck out!
WARNING! If you stop over in Oklahoma, do not use your real name and address unless you want to get begging letters from the Monks.
They do like Danny Thomas but I bet if he was alive today he would not be living there.
All it takes for me to become slightly nauseous is to look at Pat Robertson drool over a "good looking" woman.
OH.....................Gosh....sick now.....................oh.............
I really am ashamed of some people posting here. Seriously, does *every* topic have to have name-calling? Label bashing is so... yesterday.
@TCinLA: I live in Oklahoma, and I'm sure not stupid. I happen to like that we live together with our Native American neighbors. I like that the various Nations are just as active and potent as the state and country around here.
I want to see some conservatives stepping forward with *real* ideas; I want to see progressives stepping forward, too. We need to deal with the truth, with reality, and quit playing chicken with our nation's future.
Well bless my heart it's a real live Okie! Sorry deary but it is all in fun. Unlike right wingers we are not breathing fire and brimstone while bashing others. But thanks for reminding us how appearances are important-like a State the displays the ten commandments on State property. That appears to be a show of intolerance and a display of ignorance. It shows disregard for anyone who does not hold their believes. By the way when is the State Fair? Not when they mix religion with politics! HA!
Jerry,
As someone who is descended from "First Settlers" I LMAO at the stupidity of the Okie state. If I can laugh, then you sir need to lighten up big time.
Jerry Stephen, You stated " we need to deal with the truth, with reality". When are the state leaders going to start doing that ? Get rid of the nutjobs that are running the state and maybe people will quit with the jokes. As of now we see the state as just that, a joke.
Jerry Stephen...
Friend, you are wasting your effort attempting to get any positive results on this forum. Most here are haters just waiting for someone that's not part of their cult-like mentality, to enter their secret basement as a target. The best way is to jump in knowing you are in the devils den. Take your pokes, give them back, if you get respect, give it back. Then you will not be so surprised when the pitchforks strike.
Looks a lot like "fire-breathing and bashing...", huh? You can talk til you're blue in the face and you won't convince them to admit that this is exactly what they do!
For future reference, look at them like this: A nest of hungry babies chirpin for Mom to get me some more worms. Sometimes you have to drop them a roach! chirp, chirp, gag.
Okay all the haters...Let me have it!!!, or, just be adults.
Wingnuts and the Republican party deserve absolutely no respect until they admit the failure of the economic ideas, admit to the sad and pathetic idiocy on the attack on science, cease and desist on their global warming denial, cease and desist to their racist electioneering dog whistling, admit their voter suppression efforts are immoral, etc.
If you are a Republican and you continue voting and defending these people and their policies and tactics, you deserve no respect as people and you will get none from me. End of discussion.
Oh... and I forgot to mention, and sometimes there will be those sufferring from rectal/cranial interlock.
Miketheplumber: If if you go to a site dominated by Conservatives everything you said about us on this site can be said about those on Conservative sites. To gain respect you have to have respect for people who do not share your views - that goes for all of us. The problem is there are many Republicans who have not accepted the outcome of the election, where is the respect for the Constitution and our Democratic process?
Thanks for the smattering of the faithful this morning, Mr. Benen!
Re: Ten Commandments
I just started thinking about that politico in I believe Georgia who suggested President Obama will surely go to Hell. Remember -just this week!
These apologists for their corporate worlds should take heed! You have those among you named Romney who have tried to argue "Corporations are people too my friend" and are relentlessly glomming on to such tripe as if the corporate person were truly someone to admire, and possibly even covet! Transgression of the Commandments? Perhaps!
Yes, match the corporate person's behavior here on earth to all Ten Commandments and ask yourself, oh Corporate Buddy, are you worthy enough to fit a camel through the eye of a needle!
Or, are you going to Hell and only idly wishing our President would be so kind as to meet you there! -Kevo
Sorry to say he's from my state of Virginia.
Since when has it been Pat's job to forgive the transgressions of mankind?? If that isn't blasphemous, then what exactly is? This is why organized religion is a load of horse@!$%#. God doesn't care if you attend a fancy church. He does care if you honor him and put no others above. Whether or not he forgives the General or the woman in question, that is God's prerogative, not Pat Robinson's. What Robertson is showing is his true colors over how much he allows God to be master over himself. What a total hypocrite.
Fundamentalists blaspheme every time they say they know what God has said or thought about anything. That they think the b.s. of bronze age sheep fornicators who had no clue what was going on over on the other side of the hill is the "word of God" shows how ignorant they are.
Amen Ed
Robertson has been an embarassment for some time now. His son needs to get him away from the camera. I would if he was my dad. And the ten commandments thing? wow...no one religion should be given room over another...i don't know how many times i've told christians...1/not a christian country and 2/you're not in heaven.
If the collective left can forgive Bill Clinton, Robertson can forgive Petraeus for the same thing, and for the same reasons. Don't be hypocrites.
No one is a hypocrite...ESPECIALLY the 'collective Left'. The problem with Robertson is NOT that he is 'forgiving' Petraeus but that he is BLAMING the 'slutty woman' for enticing him. It's one thing to 'forgive'...it's another think to 'excuse'.
Pat Robertson can forgive whomever he wants... I frankly don't care. I find it amusing that Robertson believes one of the most powerful men in the U.S. military and intelligence community can be rendered helpless by "a good looking lady." Doesn't Robertson think Petraeus had something to do with it? Was she Eve to his Adam with the apple?
I suspect Robertson's answer to that would be, "Of course!"
if he'd raped her (and we know he didn't), it still would have been her fault. Either way, to the Evangelicals, it is always the woman's fault, no matter how it happened.
"Collective left"? Isn't that like a "herd of cats"?
I couldn't care less who Clinton slept with, and I couldn't care less who Petraeus slept with - but Robertson laying the blame for adultery on the woman and forgiving the man - THAT I care about!
I wait a minute. They are both married aren't they? Adultery is egregious enough, but Bill got his lollie pop liked, he didn't visit the candy shop like the general, yet Pat never publicly forgave Bill. Christianity and forgiveness has a double standard now. Is that what you want me to believe. The is religion not politics. That's right. You people suffering from FausNews don't know the difference.
So General Petraeus is now no better than the accused rapist, liar, and everything else you keep saying Bill Clinton is Shooter? I'm surprised you'd go that far to insult the integrity of Petraeus. Guess you hate the guy afterall, 'eh?
Like I keep saying Shooter using a red herring to excuse the behavior of a Republican only makes you a hypocrite and ends up equating the person you're "defending" to the Democrats that you, Shooter, so despise.
Some common sense next time, please
As the righties keep proving time after time common sense is not common but rather a education thing, after all to righties common sense tells them the Earth is flat and theres an invisible guy whose will must be done because we can't understand his will though as we see his will is the exact same as their will.
OK-LA-HOMA where the wind goes whistling through their heads.
We really need to address our educational system, and soon.
Poor @!$%#ter uh-shooter, he thought his point was relevant.
Both Shooter and Pat Robertson are irrelevant.
Way to keep giving it oxygen, folks. Don't be idiots.
Clinton wasn't a preacher suppose to be quoting the word of GOD, was he ?
Short play-People hurt others because they are more concerned with their own feelings than others. Then to sweeten the pot they apologize -rarely out of the realization that they were wrong but mostly for their own benefit. We say things and then we feel bad and apologize to feel better.
Really doesn't matter - believers wil be in front of their God, getting judged the same way they themselves have judged.
Or so they believe.
Of course, because good Christian men can only be led wrong by a slutty, attractive woman through no fault of their own.
Speaking of Christians... this is the first time I've paid attention to their "commandments". I never realized they had added "manservant" and "maidservant". I'm interested in why that was added. Why is it so oddly specific?
Manservant and maidservant have been in some versions of the Bible since time immemorial. I just wish that they had also included "nor his ox nor his ass" simply because it has a higher giggle factor.
at least they were equal opportunity.
Was sent to Catholic school so we never had that manservert/maid--just the wife. Of course, that I never bothered to look up the commandments of other faiths is on me...
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's dikshunary.
The 10 Commandments in LOLcat speak!
Thou canst haz naburz cheezburger.
We HAVE the 10 Commandments in LOLspeak. <BG> http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Deuteronomy_5
Try Brooks(the funny one)Speak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk
@jkl46 Thanks for that link! I hadn't seen that before, funny stuff.
Seems PatRobinson and his cohorts are getting increasingly Pythonesque in their waxings about this whole conception thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
@jkl, love it that the random banner on teh kitteh page when I visited was for Liberty University.
LOL! #7 (DrLearnAlot)
One more translation of the bible to add to my collection, along with the Skeptics Annotated Bible. Amazing how ai r gettn edicaded.
There’s this myth/tale/story that a guy named Moses went up on a mountain, and “God” gave him a pair of big, heavy stone tablets to carry all the way back down the mountain. What a joker!
When he got to bottom Moses and his pals read them, and said, “Oh, super! A bunch of Rules! Now we no longer have to think for ourselves."
And yet, there’s a similar myth/tale/story. This one had “God”, using the alias “Zeus”, come down the mountain, see this hot chick named Leda (cleverly disguised as a swan- kinky sex ahead), and had his way with her.
The result was Helen and Polydeuces- sometimes called Adam and Eve. Confusing, but that can happen with myth.
As for those Commandments; well they are a nice set of suggestions for social tranquility. And, if we just say the author is Deepak Chopra instead of "God", then we can put them anywhere, without too much fuss.
"Walk with those seeking truth... RUN FROM THOSE WHO THINK THEY'VE FOUND IT. ” Deepak Chopra
God just spoke to me this morning and She said She is SO fed up with all the religious phonies putting words in Her mouth.
Pat's fortunate. We've evolved well past the Old Testament days where people were schooled in lordly respect by death.
I was raised in Oklahoma, but luckily for me my father was an immigrant to America who taught me how to read, write, spell, question religious doctrine, and think for myself. God bless our nation's immigrants.
WRT Ten Commandments displays, bear in mind that these goobers who want to put the things up never actually bother reading them. Most probably have no idea that there's no consensus on what the text of the "ten" commandments is, given that there are more than ten imperative sentences in the source material. As for the commandments themselves, the majority (in all interpretations) don't involve legal issues anyway, being either about religious topics ("You shall have no other gods before me", "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain") or extra-legal ethical issues ("Honor your father and your mother", "You shall not commit adultery", "You shall not covet your neighbor's house"). There are only three of the ten that implicate law in any way ("You shall not murder", "You shall not steal", "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"), all of which are so generic that they'd be part of any legal code for any organized society.
The real reason for putting up these decalogue displays is to stick it to the liberals. They are a cultural statement, not an ethical one.
Really there is only 2, "You shall not steal" and "You shall not murder". "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor" can simplified to "You shall not lie", and as anyone knows who has followed the last election it is not a crime. So basically, you have 80% suggestions and only 20% real law.
Mike, I've always read the prohibition against bearing false witness as being about perjury rather than as a general rule against lying. Answering "Do I look fat in this dress?" with a lie doesn't bear false witness against anyone.
And greatly improves your life expectancy.
Yes, "bearing false witness against your neighbor" can only be simplified to a prohibition on lying in general if you eliminate the "against your neighbor" part. It refers to perjury, libel and slander, not just lying more generally. In some commentaries, I think it also applies to gossip. The NIV actually translates that commandment as, "You shall not bear false testimony against your neighbor," which makes the meaning somewhat clearer to a modern ear than the KJV.
It's not like it's carved in stone or... oh... wait.
Not to worry....Someone's on their way to Staples to purchase a large bottle of White-Out!
Hey Shooter - I don't believe the "collective left" forgave Bill Clinton, they simply dismissed it as irrelevant to his running of the White House. I view the Petraeus situation in a similar way. I really don't care what someone does in their private life as long as it does not impact their professional life.
As to Mr. Robertson, he is, presumably, a man of God who should see adultery as a sin, no matter who is involved., and he should not portray the woman as a harlot, "throwing herself" at Petraeus. It takes two to tango.
Of course, this is my opinion.
well said
I'm not so much of the same mind. If you disregard the rules in your personal life, then you are prone to disregard the rules in your professional life as well.
In case we forget, Bill Clinton paid a price for his dalliances. Clinton has the word Impeachment marring an another-wise great presidency.
Bill didn't get away with anything, because the moral right is very vigilant... when it comes to other people's sins...
Exactly Coffee , and obama can not be forgiven because ummm uhhhh wellllll
What's this ? A senseable response. What next ?
Of course if General Petraeus were a democrat, I wonder if he would get the same pass from good ol' Pat.
Why must we share this country with the ignorant masses? They created an imaginary constitution to follow along with an imaginary bible, all while denigrating an imaginary Obama, comparing him with an imaginary conservative Reagan, all in the name of an imaginary conservative christian united states that never existed. WOW!
@Shooter 42... The "collective left" as you put it, do not claim to talk to God or as a group sign on to conservative Christian principals, as does Reverend Robertson. Remember that whole thou shalt not covet thing? So who's being hypocritical here?
Well that is not what god told shooter soooooo
You can't spell check something that you've never read.
Remember S. Colbert asking the legislator who wanted to post them in a public buildings what the ten commandments are. He could name 3. I can do better than that and I'm a complete heretic.
my Dad was somewhere between Agnostic & Atheist. While I found these courthouse displays offensive, he assured me that those pushing this needed it as they had no moral compass or common sense and needed to be told daily not to kill, lie, steal, etc. He recommended that perhaps those having trouble remembering right/wrong simply have there own personal/visible tattoo for the ones they have trouble with. Bearing false witness (the 9th) comes to mind when entering a courthouse.
...or a Presidential debate.
Words on a stone tablet really makes a difference, or does it satisfy the flouting of rules about separation of church and state.
Funny. Secularists live good lives without stone tablets proclaiming their motives.
Well of course you need to 10 Commandments to remind them not to sin. Remember it's not a man's responsibility to keep from sinning, that's woman's work.
And the commandments are not for THEM , the are for YOU , ie those dam liberals , so of course they really do not know what the commandments say, they only get them out if YOU come around for some jim crow justice at that court house
Steve or whoever codes your page MAKE THE LINKS POP. it's basic HTML. other Maddow blog pages do it. FIND OUT HOW.
re FL and amendment 8 -- too late for LA. the latest "reform" of the schools not only allows that but encourages it. and as you might suspect some of the schools who will get vouchers are abysmal. poorly ranked, teach ID, all the usual things.
I think hypocrisy is the point here. I know very few lefties who are holding Petraeus to a higher standard than they did Clinton. Robertson, on the other hand, called for Clinton's impeachment. From the LA Times article at the time, '"accusing Clinton of turning the Oval Office into a "playpen for the sexual freedom of the poster child of the 1960s." He also called Clinton a "debauched, debased and defamed" leader."'
Well, then, it must be that ONLY Republican and "Evangelical Christian" men can be "led astray" by anything with a pair of boobs! I wonder where this "weakness" comes from - is it genetic?
People, Pat said he "excused" Petraeus' behavior. He did not say "forgive".
But still, he never excused Clinton.
I don't follow him at all so I'm not sure but, Did he ever tell Rush Limbaugh to stop attacking Ms. Fluke? What did she do anyway? Seems like another example of the old double standard.
At least the OKC Ten Commandment monument didn't replace "Thou" with "Y'all".
"Ya'll dun covet yer naybers trakter."
I must be ignorant but, traker means?
What was that whole thing about the government not picking winners and losers?
You missed the one from Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association .
"The jihadists on 9/11 were the agents of God's wrath in order to get our attention as a people."
Silly me...I wish Fisher would find it more disturbing when God's wrath sends plagues of drought and storms and insects and screams in our face "STOP F**KING UP MY PLANET", and the arrogant response is "Ha ha, God said we're good". smdh
@St|Saxist
Global warming just has the potential to make the world pretty much uninhabitable in 50 to 100 years, no big deal! Right? [snark]
The "Club of Rome Report" of 1972 "The Limits of Growth" predicted that by 2050 or 2070 pollution might get so bad that 90% of people would die off in a few years.
It said we should do something starting then [1972]. We did nothing. Many attacked the report, some using strawman attacks. All pretty much ignored it.
It did not see CO2 as a pollutant, it was a more general prediction than that. Now, it seems it was right.
But still, we can do nothing meaningful.
I have a thought -- require all jet passenger planes to haul water up very high and spray it out as a mist. This would form a high thin cloud layer and that would reflect in coming sunlight/heat back into space. Thus cooling the planet.
Oh, right, Pat....he is a man!! She came on to him. I will never believe this answer! If it were a woman..would you say she was a "slut!" Disgusting.
"What's more, note that Oklahoma's state-endorsed religious display uses the Protestant version of the Ten Commandments, not the Catholic or Jewish versions, and no other tradition's tenets will receive equal treatment."
I think the Founders got it right when they said the government should not promote one religion over another or no religion at all.
Didn't the original Pilgrims ( hey just in time for thanksgiving ) leave England because they disagreed with the state run church of England? If so, then this country was founded upon a principle of freedom FROM religion, not freedom OF religion.
The pilgrims were unbelievably brave and we obviously owe them a lot. but they did NOT come here seeking "freedom from religion" in general at all. They were religious extremists who disagreed with the Church of England over many things like celebrating Christmas; the pilgrims were AGAINST celebrating it because the Bible didn't specifically tell them to.
I covet thy spell-checker bitches!