Associated Press
I'd like to think most reasonable people can agree that casual discussion of secession is unsettling.
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Monday that secession was a "deeply American principle," amid a growing number of people petitioning the White House to let their states secede from the U.S.
"Secession is a deeply American principle. This country was born through secession. Some felt it was treasonous to secede from England, but those 'traitors' became our country's greatest patriots," the former presidential candidate wrote in a post on his House website. "There is nothing treasonous or unpatriotic about wanting a federal government that is more responsive to the people it represents."
He continued: "If the possibility of secession is completely off the table there is nothing to stop the federal government from continuing to encroach on our liberties and no recourse for those who are sick and tired of it."
I suppose it's inevitable during times of intense ideological strife that, once an election season ends, those dissatisfied with the results will react with excessive rhetoric. It's not uncommon, for example, to hear isolated voices talk about moving to another country, rather than suffering through four years of elected leaders they disapprove of.
But casual talk about secession -- from elected officials, no less -- is more disconcerting. In Ron Paul's case, there's nothing especially "American" about breaking up America. It happened that one time, and if memory serves, the results were fairly devastating.
"If the possibility of secession is completely off the table there is nothing to stop the federal government from continuing to encroach on our liberties and no recourse for those who are sick and tired of it"? Actually, the recourse is called an election, and they happen in the United States with great frequency.
If voters disapprove of a governmental direction, they don't need to secede; they need to vote for candidates who'll approve a different direction. If those candidates come up short, there's another election on the horizon.
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too much secession talk and someone will petition Congress to allow Obama to win another term....
I think it's a fantastic ideas. Let all the right wing rednecks move to Bank of America-onia, where they can work the free market jobs of their dreams: pennies an hour, no benefits, no safety regulations. After a few years, it might finally dawn on them that they won't be CEO billionaires anytime soon, and, hey, you sure have to work hard when you can't get the government to buy your milk for you, maybe the evil federal government wasn't so bad after all. And then they'll get to experience the easy street life of an illegal alien in America.
Secession? Let 'em go. All of 'em. Let 'em find out what the real world is like when they have to pay for things themselves, like a standing army.
Let 'em go.
We'll have Harvard … they'll have Bob Jones U.
We'll have all the great beaches … they'll have Galveston.
We'll have Broadway … they'll have Opryland.
We'll have Sam Adams … they'll have Budweiser.
We'll have some of the world's best wines … they'll have ... well, they can import Thunderbird.
We'll have a diverse economy … they'll have the good ol' boys.
We'll have a health care system … they'll have overcrowded emergency rooms.
Yes, let 'em go. While we're building the Enlightened States of America, they'll be building a new fence between Texas and Mexico. Not that they'll need it; who'd want to move there? Most definitely, let ‘em go. But be sure to tell them to not expect any foreign aid. Ever.
One slight problem with your calculations. They'll have the food and large portions of the natural resources of the country. Now they can't do much of anything with those resources without us, but we can't do much without them either. There's a reason we are a Union. It's because we've all decided before the Teahadists came along that we can't survive without each other. And it's true.
We'll have CA, OR, and WA. I'm not worried about food.
You're still off by several million metric tons of food used versus grown. Blue states have most of the population, but Red States have most of the resources. It doesn't look good for either side in a secession, but it is much much worse for the Red States.
We are a union. You either belong to the United States of America or you don't. Love her or leave her.
I will admit, though, that hearing that from a liberal considering all the years I personally was told this by conservatives is somewhat amusing. So apparently those who truly, truly love this country love her so much to leave her.
Cartoonthenews!: Thank you. That's where I was part philosophically trying to get to while addressing the specifics of the original claim. I'm pretty sure I got bogged down in the weeds there at some point.
The other part I was trying to get to was that if a split did happen it wouldn't be magical unicorn land of sunshine and roses for the Blue States. It would hurt everybody. The Blue States could survive it, but it's not guaranteed. And millions of people will die just from the economic devastation alone, let alone from the resulting 2nd Civil War. And then we'd have to worry about outside forces. Secession is just a bad horrible idea. No one should be accepting of it in any shape form or fashion.
Secession is not going to happen....However, talk about it might make our leaders understand just how divided this country is....and the need to try to turn that around. Obama was supposed to be the President that united the country....well he better get busy.
The best work Ron Paul ever did was being an unwitting participant in "Bruno". The indignant look as he walked out of that hotel room where Bruno propositioned him was priceless..
Secession is not an option. Leaving is an option. You don't like it here go someplace else. But you're not taking the country with you. This is a topic near and dear to my heart since, as an Episcopalian, I see so many who leave the church expect to take the property of the Episcopal Church with them. No and no. You leave you leave. The United States is a single entity the states are an artificial creation of lines drawn that can and have changed over time. WE are Americans and this is our country. All of it.
"There is nothing treasonous or unpatriotic about wanting a federal government that is more responsive to the people it represents." - Ron Paul
Damn straight, Ron!
If only we had some kind of system in place in this country that allows the majority of American citizens to decide who they want to represent them in the federal government.
If only we did, dammit........
have elections. Oh, we just had an election, and Ron Paul's friends lost.
To Ron Paul et al I say, "I hold, that in contemplation of universal law, and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual." "Continue to execute all the express provisions of our national Constitution, and the Union will endure forever — it being impossible to destroy it, except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself" "...we find the proposition that, in legal contemplation, the Union is perpetual, confirmed by the history of the Union itself. The Union is much older than the Constitution. It was formed in fact, by the Articles of Association in 1774.. It was matured and continued by the Declaration of Independence in 1776. It was further matured and the faith of all the then thirteen States expressly plighted and engaged that it should be perpetual, by the Articles of Confederation in 1778. And finally, in 1787, one of the declared objects for ordaining and establishing the Constitution, was "to form a more perfect union."
"It follows from these views that no State, upon its own mere motion, can lawfully get out of the Union, — that resolves and ordinances to that effect are legally void; and that acts of violence, within any State or States, against the authority of the United States, are insurrectionary or revolutionary, according to circumstances."
Source; Abraham Lincoln's 1st Inaugural, http://www.ushistory.org/documents/lincoln1.htm
I think Lincoln would beg to differ with Ron Paul's view on secession.
"This country was born through secession. Some felt it was treasonous to secede from England, but those 'traitors' became our country's greatest patriots."
The flaw in this logic is that those "secessionists" were suffering under a great burden of repression. Remember the whole 'taxation without representation' thing? Today's 'pseudo-secessionists' are only suffering under the burden of electoral rejection, or as some like to call it, "sour grapes!"
I have long felt Ron Paul was an over-rated blowhard, but this latest example of his wrong-headed thinking (?) is OVER THE TOP! The man is SENILE. He raised a SENILE child, and obviously HATES America. I cannot understand WHY anyone would continue to listen to this waste of humanity. He's not a "man", so I cannot call him that. The best part of him dribbled down his daddy's leg, long ago. He's been trying to exert his vengeance ever since. Turn him OFF! It's the most polite thing he deserves. The rest of the list is not family rated.
Secession is just code for "not wanting to abide by the decision of the majority." It's the New Birtherism, since the Birthers really weren't able to get the job done for the GOP last time around. It deserves exactly the same level of contempt.
if Paul is indeed a true political Libertarian, he can advocate for that all he wants, but he's on the complete wrong side of Rousseau's Social Contract if he ever as much as complains about any injury or "injustice" that happens to him or anyone who lives in the State of Nature who decides that they want to take any stuff that he himself cannot protect for himself, and should be unmercifully taxed for every use of anything that is held in common by those in the state of Civilization.
but money is also an invention of those in the State of Community, and Paul and those who would be his feral followers who went their own way would have to find some way of bartering for the short term right to use anything held in the State of Community. when you want to live on your own, that should mean and be EVERYTHING is on the person who lives on their own under the Social Contract.
Let's see these "individuals" live in a world with no police, no military, no protection, or social discourse at all, and then see what happens to them...until they're ready to do that...they should weigh their words more carefully.
Point of history for Ron Paul. Those who though secession from Britain was treason, were largely called Tories. A great many of these folks were deprieved of any and all property and fled to Britain.
or Canada.
Ron Paul will surely change his mind when he remembers he has been collecting a check from the Treasury of the United States of America for many, many years. Romnesia is contagious, secede with caution.
Cough. Cough.
Just gonna put some of the most famous visual propaganda of the American Revolution out there.....
Larry Wells said it as simply and directly as possible:
"As a former member of the U.S. Army I took an oath to protect and defend this country from all enemies BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. Secessionists are guilty of treason and should be treated as such. Anyone stupid enough to listen to Ron Paul should be treated the same. I hold that oath as sacred as I did 40 years ago when I took it." All of us share and support this oat every time we recite The Pledge of Allegiance.
If people like Robert E Lee were as honorable as Larry Wells, we wouldn't have had a group of officers, put their states before for the Federal Government, a government to which they swore an allegiance. At one point, I thought that Ron Paul had some reasonable ideas (well, a few, anyway) but, I thought the same way about Ross Perot, until he kicked into high gear and showed his true self; he was one crazy SOB and Ron has gone beyond even Ross's brand of insanity. Ron's fifteen minutes should be over but, I feel that way about the GOP and their "junk yard dog", the Tea-liban! . I just can't believe that the GOP's "Divide and Conquer" plan has worked so well; amazing what millions of dollars can buy. Did they accomplished it through the use of subliminal messages, did they bet on the total ignorance and/or stupidity of the American people, is it because they kept us busy worrying about our favorite sports team, caring more about what happens on Sunday than what happened on Nov 6, did they attacked our President with lies and innuendos, it's all of the above! They packaged up all of this and served it up as the most potent shot of " Heroin for the Masses", ever to be used against us! Before The Civil War, people would say, "The United States are....", after The Civil War, people would say, "The United States is....". When I read this, it really hit home. The significance of changing "are" to "is" changed the way that we view our country, this was no small change, it was written in American blood.
It is quite all right with me for everything east of California to secede. We could keep Utah as a sub-country to use as an open prison for victim crimes which means Utah would contain its current most popular religion, most of Congress, most of Wall Street, and the entire banking industry. And Nevada would make a 'nice' organized dump. Arizona could house the zombies as it does now.
For states like Texas, the idea of forced secession, or open house sale back to Mexico is appealing but the buyer would have to take OK, Arkansas, LA, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia. Florida will soon be underwater anyway. I am starting to warm to the idea of having a country with an average IQ greater than 100.
As Long drug dealers are empowered by the government (Mexico) to get guns an amunition, texas will be tempted to side with them and once again become a part of Mexico......Remember the Alamo.....