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About two years ago at this time, Congress and the White House were working on the details of a pretty enormous compromise: Republicans got an extension of all Bush-era tax rates and Democrats got an extension of jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed and a one-year payroll-tax cut for most workers. But there was a small catch.
Just as important as what was in the agreement is what was omitted: the White House and congressional Democrats did not include a debt-ceiling increase in the deal, perhaps hoping Republicans wouldn't be so reckless as to hold the nation hostage in 2011. We know how that turned out.
Two years later, Congress and the White House are once again having an interesting conversation about taxes, and once again there's the possibility of a deliberate, man-made debt-ceiling crisis on the horizon. Democrats don't intend to make the same mistake twice.
Implicitly responding to House Speaker John Boehner's warning to President Obama that raising the nation's debt ceiling will come with "a price," a top Senate Democrat said Tuesday that an increase in borrowing authority will have to be part of whatever package Congress and the White House settle on to avert automatic spending cuts and tax increases at the end of the year.
"I think honestly it's going to be closer to $4 trillion when it's all said and done, and I also think that the President isn't going to sign off on any agreement that doesn't include some certainty as to budgets, appropriations, dealing with our debt ceiling," said Senate Dem Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL) after a policy speech at the liberal Center for American Progress. "We're not going to find ourselves at some big party celebrating in February and then turn around in March and have another doomsday scenario with the debt ceiling. We've got to get this done as one big package."
It's not just Durbin. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) also said the debt ceiling must be included in any deal, and White House officials told representatives of major unions and progressive groups this morning that President Obama will also insist on a debt-limit increase as part of the fiscal talks -- and will not accept a separate fight on just this issue.
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I wonder if the Big Business representatives who met at the White House were persuaded to get behind what Geithner has been saying about elimination of the debt ceiling law.
Is this an example of Obama 2.0's "outside game"? Put pressure on GOP from their own constituents? If so, then it is still an inside game, merely recognizing one step of indirection. That is, Obama 2.0 still plays the inside game, but simply recognizes that the people he was speaking to in the smoke filled room were not the real decision makers.
If memory serves there was a similar statement by a similar constituency last time.
the gop/tp are Still evading , obstructing and avoiding the Jobs,Jobs,Jobs issues ! YES , STILL !!
WHY Are they being Paid By US and also receiving Full Medical Benefits for LIFE ??? WHY ??
In the book, Do Not Ask What Good We Do, the "young guns" in the House, (Eric Cantor being one) state that they will absolutely not allow Obama to raise the debt ceiling again. This was said a few months after the last debt ceiling debacle. I wonder if they and the House T-Party members will try another one of their obstructionist stunts to create a man-made crisis again for the country.
I certainly would not be surprised by anything they do. I hope Obama is as smart as I think he is and as fed up as I am with their destructive nonsense.
Headlines are interesting:
Dems to avoid 2010 misstep on debt ceiling
I wasn't aware that the Dems made a "misstep" in 2010. I am aware that the T.E.A. Republicans once they gained control of the House in 2011 held the debt ceiling hostage and held the gun of default on the debt to the head of all of us, but I don't believe that anyone was forewarned in 2010 of what the T.E.A.s were to pull in 2011. I am sensitive to the way language is used and the use of "misstep" in the headline is incorrect.
Even if the debt ceiling for this year's budget is included in the "grand bargain" Obama will still have the same problem in 2014 because the Republicans will still control the House. The hostage taking by Republicans is not going to stop because it worked before. And that is why Obama needs to go over the fiscal cliff on January 1. Make the Republicans take the middle class tax cuts hostage since they have no other bargaining chip. If they back down Obama wins. If they don't back down Obama wins because it hands Dems the issue for 2014. For Dems it is a win/win situation. The Republicans are under pressure to make a deal because Wall Street, the banks, the wealthy and most voters want it. Only the Tea Party does not want the deal. Republicans will be backed into a corner and have to choose a deal and lose the TP or face voters wrath and angry campaign contributors who are not going to give money if public opinion polls show the party is going down to defeat in 2014. Spank the Republicans and hostage taking will lose its appeal.
No comment on content but request to change the color of the 'quotes' on the blog - the lightness of the grey does not provide enough contrast for eyes that are challenged by aging - I still want to see what's going on - very difficult to do with that light grey type.... thank you for the consideration and walk gently.
Agree! Until then, you can highlight the text to read it easier.
Crone 728, Yes, highlight the comments like I do here. That may help. If I see you on the blog, I will make sure to do so. I have eye problems and can't stand light, so Ed Shultz's blog is over for me as it is bright white and my eyes hurt from it.
I feel for you. I find this blog fine, but my eye problem is sort of rare and different from yours.
crone & India - have you messed with the brightness and contrast controls of your monitor? there is usually enough range to satisfy even my saggy old eyes. if that's not enough, try a piece of neutral density filter media over the screen or even wear sunglasses if it's too bright. controlling the room lights, intensity and placement can also help the readability of your monitors. personally i live almost exclusively in indirect light and wear a dark shirt, both help to reduce glare and reflections.
- just an old lighting engineer who can't keep his yap shut.
temporary me, Thank you for the response. I really appreciate that and will try your suggestions. I wear transitions because of the sunlight and Crisal lenses for glare. I could be in danger of losing my sight from this eye problem. I have had it a lot of years and so far I am pretty good. I just have a problem with bright light. So far these detachments have not taken the retina with them. Thank God. (That is my fear.) I love to read and love this blog.
Most of the time, I am fine. It is only when these mini detachments happen that I cannot see for a little while. There is no pain with it, which is a blessing. I just seem to get more sensitive to light. It hurts my eyes. Many years ago, when I had the first episode, I saw a big black donut in front of my eyes for at least six months, floating around. It went away finally. Whew!
Thank you again.
I definitely will follow your advice. We already keep only dim lights on most of the time and indirect light. I see better in dim light.
I'm sorry but this is pathetic. An increase in the debt ceiling should NOT be part of a larger negotiation, it should just occur. I wish that I could call up US Bank and tell them that I'll only consider not defaulting on my credit card if they agree to lower my interest rate.
The debt ceiling should be a routine thing that congress does. This is not about approving additional spending this is about agreeing to pay for what we've already spent. That this is even part of the fiscal cliff talks is shameful. Democrats need to start fighting a better PR war on these issues. God knows that the GOP will demand some sort of concession in the fiscal cliff talks in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. By including this in the talks, all Democrats are doing is providing the GOP with another bargaining chip.
Instead of tying the debt ceiling to some sort of concession from the Democrats, how about tying the operation of air traffic control at National Airport to the extension of the debt ceiling?
No air traffic control, no Christmas flights home for most Congressmen and Senators. Since he lives in D.C., the President would not be inconvenienced. ;-)
Jerold Nevada, Let me ask you a question, What burn's your A$$ more, People that Work and are forced to get Some kind of State Aid, or People who sit at home doing Nothing and getting state Aid?
Prior to 1917 (refined in 1939), there was no such thing as a requirement for Congress to raise the debt ceiling. (cbo report) It is no accident those dates correspond to world wars. This is a construction of Congress, and it was put in place because of the rapid rate of spending needed during wartime. The normal principle was to authorize new debt as part of the new spending authorized by congress. Both Geithner and Greenspan advocate that it be eliminated so that the economic stability of the country can no longer be held hostage as a tactic of partisan warfare. In interviews of Geithner (eg this Bloomberg interview), I have not seen him be specific on the alternative, simply asserting Congress can fix it. Greenspan advocates resumption of the system prior to 1917 (cnnMoney interview)
You must really be p*ssed off at Exxon and Walmart!
Jerold I dont want to see anyones Wallet raided, But would you agree that, and without saying Go get another Job, How do WE solve the the problem of Low Wage earners, whereas not getting any Benefit's, Health care, livable wage. Do you find it acceptable of Walmart's practices? Why can't that Co. provide Ins and a little better Wage, Along with Papa Johns, McDonald's. If these Co's did just that think How many would be off of Various Public assistance? Then Our respective States could use those Million's for other Program's. Then about the unwed Mother's, I wonder How many of their Boyfriend's came Home from Iraq or Afghanistan, Wounded, Paralyzed or Dead?
Actually Jerrold, if Walmart gave everyone who worked for them a living wage, it would increase their prices 1 percent.
But go ahead and live in dumbass world, you've obviously been there a long time.
Oh, so that $4 trillion they're threatening us with is different and less harmful than the $4+ trillion in debt reduction available if we go over the so-called fiscal
cliffcurb? But if we let the Bush tax cuts et al. expire and allow the Republican-extorted sequestration cuts to go forward the economy will die! You can only be saved by agreeing to heavier taxes on the poorest 50% of us, reductions in foodstamps, Head Start, Medicaid, et al., and other spending cuts that -- miracle!! -- will not damage the economy.Just take a quick look at how the debt would be handled by our going over the fiscal
cliffcurb: Ezra Klein's WonkBlog Everything on the Fiscal Cliff.Do they really believe no one can read the truth behind their lies? Do they really think we are all as stupid as they think we are?
Well, uh, duh, must be, because Faux Noise says it's so.
Fox and their viewers live in an alternate universe. They are a lying, hate filled, propaganda machine for the extreme right-wing of the GOP. They are toxic and shouldn't be allowed to call themselves "news".
I heard somewhere that Fox can't be viewed in Canada. Is that possible?
Hey, Wall Street!
If the roads, rail lines and airports break, how is anyone going to do any business?
If the FDA can't regulate, what's to keep some company in Mass from poisoning you?
If you don't provide adequate food, shelter, medical care, education and training to your livestock, who you gonna get to do the scut work?
If you don't pay for it, who will? (We can't. We owe more on our houses than they're worth. We're broke. Mostly because someone thought it was a good idea to remove government oversight of banks.)
Hey, Jerold! It sounds like you buy all the crap that the Republicans peddle wholesale, because it fits in with your preconceptions. So I'm 100% sure that I can't get through to you, and I won't even bother. You just keep on living in your own little world.
For anyone who cares about the truth, though, so far as I can see this story is entirely apocryphal. But it's plausible, nonetheless. Why? Because Nevada is currently SCREWED, and their state and city governments have been laying people off hand over fist, because they have no money. But Mr. Jerold doesn't want his taxes raised, oh no, he just wants reductions in government services. Which causes inconveniences like the one he mentions. And the solution to that is, of course, to deregulate everything, and stop wasteful practices like inspections. After all, if a hundred people die on the first day that the new restaurant is open, then hey, their heirs can sue, and justice is served!
Now, you might say, 'but this is the US, stuff like that doesn't happen!'
Well, it turns out that it used to. But then we started doing things like, you know, inspections...
Jerrold is a good little wingnut - he lets his "betters" do his thinking for him and then says "Yassuh, Mr. Limpdick" as he knuckles his brow and bends over to spread 'em.
Jerold, Seeing how you think Walmart will go out of Buisness, Well Just keep opening up the wallet!!!! 12.7 Billion, Yep there goin out of Buisness, Your money or Their's, Me Personally I think they'll manage it. Don't forget the Tax credit's they'll get in 2014, under the ACA, that should help them avoid bankruptcy, Maybe Bain Capital will get in on that one too.
Jerrold, maybe you can work for Trump (does he still have that hotel there or is it bankrupt?) in Vegas and get in on that action. Sell your soul to the powers on the Strip or just borrow money and put it all on black or the Pass Line. That would probably have more effect on your life than bumping up these tax higher level rates would have.
I believe that the debt ceiling is outdated. I, however, do somewhat believe in what it intended, control of the amount of debt the United States owes. I don't think the writers of the law, however, could have foreseen the massive economy we now have back when it was enacted in 1917. Therefore, the law needs to be updated somehow tying the amount of debt to a percentage of GDP. There will always need to be exceptions, however, I suppose, so someone will always be able to be stupid enough to hold the United States and the world economy hostage.
The way to control the debt is not with a debt limit. It is in the amounts appropriated. I really wish that President Obama would assert and enforce the 14th Amendment. The debt limit statute is unconstitutional.
What really would help is someone who can make weather vanes and sell them to other Countries. I'd get on that creative bubble right now.We need manufacturing right here at home -any air pollution or environmental hazard are not allowed to build here. We need thousands of farmers, we need thousands of farms. We need a Friday night social dance, then we should be good to go. We need a lot of pot luck neighbors in the streets party. I'll bring the apple pie.
Anyone who would misrepresent the United States by ruining our s&p standards can't be trusted, they are selling U.S. piece by piece. I mean what kind of a maniac would want to dig up The Grand Canyon for uranian is one truly misguided soul. I'm guessing but, isn't uranium needed by Iran to finish their missile program? Who is he wanting to sell it to, is what I would like to know.It sounds like someone who isn't working for our Country, but for themselves.
In other news, the iceberg which sank the Titanic bears an uncanny resemblance to the shape of Boehner's favorite wine glass...
Did you see those female lions,or lionesses attack that elephant, I couldn't watch, I hid under the blankets till it was over, but the elephant did manage to escape, with a few cuts and bruises.....reporting to you live from "The Animal Farm".
Thanks, that one made my day. One glass good, two glasses better.
It makes sense to dig your heels in when you are on solid ground and your opposition is skating on thin ice. Sic 'em!
I've voted for Durbin every time he has come up for election.
If the Democrats put up ANYONE else, I'll support them.
Durbin is already talking about what the Democrats are going to put on the table (everything) and how great Simpson Bowles is.
Let's see. The Republicans have talked about MAYBE putting tax increases on the table. Nothing else. Durbin comes up with EVERYTHING being on the table and how great Simpson Bowles is.
This guy has sold us down the river before anything has even started.
I am for going all the way to let them expire and then Congress has to do the real deal.
I agree with Mike in #2 above. Let Congress learn a lesson to stop threatening us. I freakin' hate it that they feel such chutzpah as to use the levers against us.
Let's use the expiration and let them change their rhetoric about "this group" and "that group" and wanting across the board tax cuts while they pick on "this group" and "that group" in other "social" matters…
"Groups" like women, racial and ethnic minorities, LGBTQ, trying to say 47% of people aren't voting for them, write them off and the very poor already have a safety net, but they would love to cut it out from under them.
Sandy, I agree with going over the cliff as I see no other way to get their cooperation. They would, as you said, love to cut the safety nets out from under people. I have come to see the Republican party as nearly a domestic terrorist organization. Their obstructionism has damaged the economy and the people of this country. This has to end. The Democrats have got to show some serious resolve to work for the will of the people and not the damn T-party.
I have to ask, I know what LGBT is but what is Q?
Hi India,
We almost always agree on things :)
The Q is the all encompassing Queer, which is a matter of self definition.
People have a right to define themselves. It can include, but not limited to Gender Identity or the nearly unspoken Asexual or you can even say "Questioning"- meaning I do not fit into any mold or label others would like to put on me-rejecting any label.
That's my take, but it is mostly for people to use for themselves. I include those folks as equally as LGBT, the Q is just as equality deserving of recognition.
If the democrats give in to the republicans and cut medicare in any way, the republicans will run campaign ads in the next election that say it was the democrats that cut medicare and the republicans are the protectors of medicare. We just had republican ads that did this. Make no deals with republicans. Make the rich pay taxes and fix the high cost of medicare by getting the private sector out of health care. Single payer national health care is half as expensive as private insurance.
#14 JD Phillips,
Make no deals with Republicans! That's for sure. They're a treacherous, conniving bunch with no scruples at all.
AWWwww , YEAH , Butt , Who Really Gives A Ratts A$$ ~ Anyways ???