Associated Press
This really was the end of the 2012 presidential race.
President Obama cruised to a big re-election victory three weeks ago, but there are apparently a few folks who believe this wasn't the end of the 2012 presidential election.
A state senator from north-central Idaho is touting a scheme that's been circulating on tea party blogs, calling for states that supported Mitt Romney to refuse to participate in the Electoral College in a move backers believe would change the election result.
Sen. Sheryl Nuxoll, R-Cottonwood, sent an article out on Twitter headed, "A 'last chance' to have Mitt Romney as President in January (it's still not too late)." [...]
Nuxoll said she received the article by email and decided to share it on Twitter. "I post for people to see and think about things and reflect about things," she said. "I don't know if it's realistic."
It's not realistic.
Here's the pitch, which seems to have been crafted by Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips: Romney won 24 states in the election, and if electors from 17 of those states refuse to participate in the Electoral College, the college would have no quorum, and it'd be up to the U.S. House of Representatives to elect the president.
The problem -- well, one of the problems -- is that those who believe this nonsense are relying on the 12th amendment, which says, "[I]n choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states." This refers, not to the Electoral College, but the U.S. House of Representatives.
There is no quorum needed in the Electoral College. Like far too many right-wing ideas, this one is rooted in confusion and ignorance.
The Idaho Statesman talked to constitutional scholar David Adler, director of the Andrus Center for Public Policy at Boise State University, who said the idea is "really a strange and bizarre fantasy" that has "no basis in federal law or the architecture of the Constitution."
When your wacky uncle sends you an email about there being one "last chance" to elect Romney, keep this in mind.
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And nevermind the fact that Obama won 53% of the popular vote, right? They are mad that our republic form of democracy worked. Call a wahhhhmbulance.
Writing as the liberal scum that I am...Obama is not at 53% of the popular vote. Rounded up, he's at 51. Something like 50.83% Rounding down, Romney is at 47 (yessss!) Something like 47.42%. The remaining difference (less than 2%) is with scattered 3rd party and write in candidates.
We are not a democracy, one requirement for a democracy is to have a direct election of your leader, we don't do that. We have the archaic electoral college.
I read an article on TPM yesterday that has him at 53%. Afairhope...I said republic form of democracy.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AjYj9mXElO_QdHpla01oWE1jOFZRbnhJZkZpVFNKeVE&toomany=true#gid=19
50.88% Obama
47.40% Romney (yesssss!)
1.72% "Other"
There are still absentee and provisional ballots being counted, so these percentages will more than likely continue to change. Especially since most of these ballots come from districts that lean D.
52.6% of the voters voted against Romney.
Hey wingnuts! When was the last time Americans gave a two-term President over 50% of the vote for both terms?
Votes are still being counted. It might have been a slate article. *At any rate*, Obama won the majority of the popular vote. He won the electoral vote. The Republican talking heads need to quit crying about it.
Bahahahaha! It was an article here. http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/27/15482682-mr-47-percent?threadId=3618209&commentId=72196659#c72196659
"Hey wingnuts! When was the last time Americans gave a two-term President over 50% of the vote for both terms?"
Ronald Reagan, in 1980 and 1984.
A surprising (to me) number of Presidents were elected with less than 50% of the popular vote. Only a handful have gotten more than about 55%:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin
Like
far too manyall right-wing ideas, this one is rooted in confusion and ignorance.Jerrold Nevada "member since 11/2012" - another of the ignorant trolls who see their duty to go out an pee on as many fire hydrants as possible. You lost, ignoramus. You've been a loser all your life. The only thing that kept you going was your "white privilege" and now you've lost that too.
"We are not a democracy" - afairhope
I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Jerrold what you really is sad and pathetic.
The fact that this has come up isn't even remotely surprising it goes right along with all of the secessionist, voter fraud nonsense and isn't even worth half as much.
Just keep your eyes on the road show of right wing paranoia and you will see articles of impeachment files by Valentines day
I'm starting to believe that these people are suffering from mass psychosis. I know that I was truly heart-broken when George W. was elected in 2004 - but really even I wasn't going this far; these people need to be in therapy and medicated!
@jerold:
well, if you're going to go on about who is dumb, you could learn to spell.
Darn! That didn't work!
OK, let's try this:
Teh Constytooshun says that Blahs are 3/5 of a White Human, so the Kenyan Usurper loses 2/5 of his votes. And THAT means Mitt is our duly selected Dear Leader!
Day, don't forget to include a /snark label for those RWNJ that do show up. They might not understand the wonderful snarkiness of your post and think you really mean it. :)
or worse they will try and make the argument
Nice try, but Obama's mother was white, so that makes Obama 4/5 of a person at least, while Mormons didn't exist in 1776, so that makes Romney imaginary.
4/5 of a person beats someone who doesn't exist.
Besides, Obama is twice the statesman Romney is so even his 3/5 would beat Romney's 1/2. Simple math.
Well, I hear there are folks in the South still grumbling about the results of the Civil War, and it's been how many years? I guess there are some folks who are bent on waging a War on Reality. (Sorry for adding another "War on. . ." thing, but it's true.)
I love the War on Reality title. Fits perfectly. Maybe congress could appoint McCain as the War on Reality Czar! He's already an expert.
I lived in the South for 10 years (after living in Topanga Canyon, CA). Any time I needed amusement I would bring up the Civil War. Wow! They go on an on then I would respond with "but you lost" and they would go on for another half hour or so. It could go on for days! :)
Pamela
You left the Topanga Canyon to go to the South?!!! How could you Topanga Cayon so lovely?!!! Yes the South for the most part is in reality check-out about the Civil War. I know just from talking to some of the Confederate re-enactors I know. :-)
Maria . . . Who wins those re-enactments? Given the feelings of so many Southerners, do they try to achieve a different outcome?
Well it depends who won the actually battle historically. I do know at one timeline event I do that on one day they'll do a battle the Confederacy won and the next day a battle the Union won. These guys are more into being historically accurate than to try and redo a battle.
I have been told that after a weekend of reenacting battles both sides go out to eat together in uniform. Which makes for a very odd scene indeed.
Why simply have Rmoney "win"? Why not craft a scenario that will have the current President lynched too and turn all law back 200 years? I mean, if you're going to dream, dream super-dumb, right?
God damnit these people are stupid! And they will never learn either..
Good grief. When will it stop?
well my swag is never! or until one of theirs gets back into the white house, which i am hoping that it will be a long time from 2016.
When will it stop? When they're all demonstrating that "the only 'good Republicans' are pushing up daisies."
Nixon's good now?
The most wonderful thing that I have noticed since the end of the Bush administration is that the majority of people are becoming more community minded and that this conservative mindset of "survival of the fittest" just doesn't work when our country is in crisis. I love it! My hope is that these insane Republican government officials keep up the good work and those on the right keep moving away from them.
Yes, yes, yes! Community minded and compassionate, too. We're all in this together, not YOYO (You're On Your Own).
Whenever I hear someone on the Right saying that it's not government's job to provide the safety net, because we have charity organizations for that, I want to scream. Sure, they'll give you something to eat and some warm socks, but first you must listen to their sermon and play by their rules. C'mon! How demeaning!
I've noticed, throughout my working life, that companies each have their own unique quality, consistent up and down the chain of command. They can feel stuffy and regimented or excited and exuberant or craven and careful. I've experienced all of these. And it seems that this quality cascades from the person at the top. Honestly. I was so worried that Romney might win and we'd all get stuffed into a back hallway somewhere so only those rich and powerful enough would have plenty of elbow room, metaphorically speaking.
There isn't enough charity to take care of the needs of our country. There.just.isn't. If it's not Government's job to do anything (from passing laws to collecting taxes to taking care of the least among us--all of which some people want to do away with), why the hell do we have a government?
Well, Melanie, my understanding is that government has three specific reasons for existing: to defend our borders, adjudicate disputes and provide for the common good. It's this last one that has become the most controversial.
Certainly it includes establishing and maintaining the infrastructure that everyone needs but that each individual wouldn't provide for himself: roads, schools, public transportation, utilities and so forth. But here's where the heart of the people is revealed. I believe it also means caring for the least among us, who can't care for themselves or who need help getting back on their feet.
So, yes, there are welfare abuses. This is the argument that the conservatives like to toss in your face when you talk about caring for people in need. But just because some people are alcoholics, we don't outlaw alcohol. (Or wait. We tried that and it didn't work.) If there are people using fraudulent means to get government handouts, then work on that problem. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
There might be welfare abusers, but how about the tax evaders? and all of the subsidies? How about all of the major corporations who don't pay taxes? I pay my portion of taxes every year? Don't you? Fair is fair....that's all we want. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I'm still waiting for my last chance to elect Al Gore rather than that dry drunk from Texas.
Hear, hear!
We did elect Gore, remember?
What you want is a chance for him to serve his term. Seriously, though, if you do come up with that time machine, there are better uses for it.
LOL
to think we have four more years of the teapublicans trying to work against America then for it.
To bad they just can not say well they won lets get to work on solving problems and not creating more.
There are numerous Romney voters planning on recording their own funerals so they can watch them the next day. At least they won't be disappointed this time.
All they have to do is get the Supreme Court to reinterpret the 12th (like they have the 2nd) and President Romney is good to go.
There's a kernel of truth, though, to the plan. I pointed out to my dad last night that, as the Electoral College hasn't met, President Obama isn't officially re-elected.
The plan as the Idaho state senator has put forth won't work, that's true. But if several states didn't submit their Electoral votes for Obama, enough to deprive him of 270 votes, then the election would be thrown to the House when the Electoral College failed to reach a majority.
I will say that, while that's technically possible, it's not a good idea. The vast majority of Americans are comfortable with President Obama's reelection. The world is certain of Obama's continuance in office. For a technicality to come in at the last possible moment and throw the election to the House, it would create confusion and anger everywhere. If Republicans tried to do that, it would be extremely damaging for their brand. So, I don't think they would attempt something like this.
Just so you know, sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "La, la, la" won't work, either.
Only a couple of states require Electors to vote for the candidate who won their state, so in theory the Electoral College could elect Romney or Rachel Maddow or almost any other American who's 35 or over.
But that's not going to happen.
What are they smoking up there in "north-Central Idaho." By rights, the next tweet from Nuxoll should be an apology and announcement of her resignation. But no doubt it will be that she's raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and is considering a run for Congress.
North Central Idaho is mostly populated by Mormons and Nazis. How you tell the difference is beyond me.
I was warned years ago that Sandpoint and its environs may be beautiful, but it's also crawling with skinheads and other dangerous folks. (I'm actually not too far from there right now. Eek!) Well, I'm sure there are some lovely, reasonable people living there, too, but when you get a preponderence of RWNJs like you have in that area, the crazies feel safe in blurting out nonsense and the rational people keep their heads down. You know, guns and religion and all that.
It's lovely Idaho has no bigger problems the local tea partiers could be working on, no hungry kids, no lonely elderly, no litter-covered highways to adopt?
I think members of the tea party should take a American Civics class. They obviously missed it the first time around.
Nuxoll said she received the article by email and decided to share it on Twitter. "I post for people to see and think about things and reflect about things," she said.
As opposed to, you know, posting to inform and clear up confusion and dissuade folks from believing in Electoral College fairies.
So things have really changed. Obama was elected and the GOP still thinks they have total control. It's more of we'll shove our religious beliefs down your throat and Susan Rice is a woman and we'll use her as a way to get Scott Brown back in the Senate especially since he was defeated by a woman. That doesn't go over well with the sexists in the minority party.
I used to work at a job that in my lighter moments I described the management as such:
It's like this place is run by blind people. At the point of midnight on a moonless eve, they put on dark sunglasses. Someone drops a marble in the middle of the room and says, "Find the marble."
I had no idea that I was predicting the future of the Republican party.
Ugh... as a fellow Idahoan I have to say - "will it ever stop?"
I hope that people realize that there is more to Idaho than the crazy wingnuts that seem to make it in the news.
I still love my beautiful state... :)
This misreading of the Constitution reminds me of the Birther nuts. Birthers don't seem to realize that even if Obama had been born abroad, he would still be eligible to be President. The Constitution does not say the President must be born in the U.S., it says the President must be "a natural-born citizen." People who acquire citizenship at birth by being born abroad to U.S.-citizen parents (like John McCain, for example), are natural-born citizens under U.S. nationality law, and so they can become President-- but only if they win the presidential election.
And George Romney, who was born in Mexico.
Yes, George Romney-- another excellent example.
"...this one is rooted in confusion and ignorance."
No, the idea is rooted in wishful thinking. But let us indulge the fools who believe this scenario can change the result. Everyone should go to Disneyland at least once in a lifetime even if it is only in the mind.
Don't forget, Vote! Election Day, Tuesday, December 4, 2012 as always.
Next up, Nuxoll discovers Tardis in the basement, buried under a heavy layer of 2008 Obama ballots.
A Republican Trojan Elephant. Good Grief.
Wait, I thought the Tea Party were the self-proclaimed defenders of the constitution, and they can't even read it properly? Now I'm confused.