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Last week, the Obama administration presented congressional Republicans with a formal offer in their ongoing fiscal talks, and challenged GOP leaders to come up with a plan of their own. Today, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and the House Republican leadership sent a letter to the White House that's been described as a "counteroffer," but that's not quite correct.
House Speaker John Boehner on Monday sent a counter offer to President Obama to avoid the looming fiscal cliff that raises $800 billion without increasing tax raise tax rates on top earners and makes $1.4 trillion in cuts and reforms to entitlement and discretionary spending programs.
Boehner's offer does not outline how to deal with a country fast approaching its debt limit and sequestrations' across-the-board spending cuts.
So, what's the pitch? Under this proposal, Republicans would keep all of the Bush-era tax rates, but accept $800 billion in new revenue. How? Through "through pro-growth tax reform that closes special-interest loopholes and deductions while lowering rates."
From there, the GOP leaders want to cut $600 billion from Medicare and Medicaid; cut $300 billion from mandatory programs; cut $200 billion by changing the consumer price index; and then cut another $300 billion in further discretionary spending.
To call this a "counteroffer" is to strip the word of meaning. Under the GOP plan, Republicans get the more than $1 trillion in spending cuts Obama already gave them; Republicans get the entitlement cuts they want; Republicans get hundreds of billions of dollars in additional cuts to programs they haven't identified; and Republicans get all of the Bush-era tax rates they've prioritized.
This isn't a "counteroffer"; it's a Christmas wish list written by kids without access to calculators.
But Democrats would get $800 billion in new revenue, right? Well, no, probably not -- Boehner says he can get the money by closing "loopholes and deductions," but we know that's not true. Either GOP officials would start forcing the middle class to feel the pinch, or they'd fall far short of $800 billion.
What's more, notice that the Republicans' letter doesn't actually include real details. Sure, some numbers are thrown around, but I can just as easily write a letter to the Speaker promising to raise $18 gajillion by selling unicorns to Bigfoot -- the numbers don't mean anything unless they're backed up by substantive policies.
Postscript: In case you were wondering -- I was -- the letter makes no reference to GOP leaders' willingness to consider extending unemployment aid, extending the payroll tax break, raising the debt ceiling, or investing so much as a penny in economic growth policies.
One should generally be reluctant to make broad assumptions, but I suspect the Republicans' silence on these issues suggests they're not open to the possibility.
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ok I'm no economist, but going over the fiscal cliff sounds less painful than the republicans plan
Exactly , then the gop house can go to the dem senate and beg for military spending to be spared , instead of the senate begging The House to get in touch with reality every week , it seems this time around obama and the dems know they have the upper hand
chemhdmd: the Solyndra deal was approved by Bush. Get in to the fact based reality and stop calling everyone who disagrees with you silly names
I'm not shocked that Obama started with a lowball bid, showing a lot of what the Democrats wanted right off the bat, but with specific enough terms that the numbers were solid. I'm slightly more shocked that the counteroffer seems to go off on a tangent of more vague promises and numbers that you have to take more on faith. But to be fair, it's a counteroffer of sorts. But it's like your opening offer for a horse is $200 bucks, the counteroffer is 15 fish, a loom, and a credit card. It makes finding the middle ground a bit more tricky.
ok. but first:
do the fish pass the "smell test."
is it a working loom? those things can be worth a lot, lets just look under the hood. or are they just going to say "no, no, no, that was just an offer to 'loom' over you for 5 minutes."
and how much of the national debt is on that credit card? hmmmm...
other than that, golly gee, lets go for it.
I just don't get it does anyone understand the word compromise anymore? I hope the President just let's thing fall off the cliff and let the GOP take the hit for it -- just like Clinton had to way back when the GOP was giving him a hard time. Honestly.
NBC news.com...
"GOP offers own proposal..."
First line is a quote from Boehner:
"...we're putting forth a credible plan..."
And it's based on Erskine Bowles plan...
Not a single detail present (because there aren't any?), no critical analysis. Not even a link to the plan (because it does not really exist beyond the talking-points?). You can take the time to work out real details for a real plan, or just throw some numbers on a piece of paper and shout loudly that that's a plan...it's considered the same thing by the MSM
Not to mention the Erskine Bowles denies that it is his plan or based on his plan.
When did the word "credible" become a synonym for BS?
This GOP is the most dishonest and obstructive bunch of phonies that has ever "blessed" the chambers of Congress. . . Tell them to take a hike off a cliff and let's just get on with fixing our country.
Now that we've heard from both sides, here's the compromise.
1. Tax rates up 60-70% of the way (say from 36% to 38.5%), for the wealthy.
2. Limit deductions of the wealthy to a max of $25K.
3. Use means testing to cut medicare spending $400-500B.
4. Cut defense dept spending another $250B (starting with the Tank).
5. Cut discretionary spending another $200B.
6. Redefine COLA, saving $200B
7. End congressional authority over the debt limit.
Bada bing. Bob's Your Uncle. We're done.
Bob (not my uncle), how about...
1. marginal tax rates for the top bracket go back to the beginning of the reagan-era (70%). we need to claw-back some of what they've taken in the last 30 years.
2. capital gains become ordinary income.
3. use means testing for both medicare and social security and remove the cap on contributions to both.
4. cuts in defense spending are ok but have something in place for those put out of the military so they can get work back in civillian life.
5. what parts of discretionary spending? keep hands-off of NOAA, NASA, USGS, etc. and anything r&d related, they make money.
6. why hit COLA? it never keeps up with actual inflation.
7. YES! kill the debt limit.
yes, i'm greedier and more vindictive than you and i think that they need to do more than go back to the way things were 10 years ago. they need to repay some of what they have ripped-off for the last 30 years.
Amen.
That is what really gets me about the idea of we "all" have to make some sacrifices.
The middle class has been sacrificing for 30 years and now we have to sacrifice some more???? Give us back the living wages that were consistently reduced. Give us back the benefits that were taken away. Give us back our homes, pensions, jobs and hope that were stripped away in 2008. The wealthy haven't sacrificed anything for our country since Reagan broke the unions. As far as I am concerned, it is their turn to make a few sacrifices.
It has been just fine for Bain and friends to strip our people of the pensions they have worked for all their lives with a "Tough luck, folks, that's the way business works. Don't take it personal, just take a hike." How a bankruptcy judge could approve bonuses for management that sucked out not only the profits of a company but the pensions of 18,000 workers is beyond me. Those "bonuses" should go back to the workers and the managers should be given the bum's rush.
We have had 30 years of Corporate greed, I personally would like to see a bit of Corporate largesse or barring that just plain Corporate sacrifice for the good of the country that gave them their profits on a silver platter. I don't want to take anyone else's money. I would just like to be able to live on the Social Security I paid into for 60 years
There is no greater shame to be had than to be a Republican in the House whining constantly about quasi-ideological bull@!$%# while not really doing a god damned thing and still getting a paycheck to boot! That photo looks like a second rate shame run-off!
Please check out the petition at www.gov/5ey3 and if you agree please sign it.
of course, I agree with most of your assessment here, however, where you say it would make the middle-class feel the pinch, the middle-class HAS been feeling the pinch all along. as if there is no accumulation of the effects of past policy. if fact, I really wish someone would add up all the money the 2% has banked by NOT paying their fair share since these "temporary" tax cuts were put in place under GWB. That total should include the amount of interest they have earned on investments and for having it sitting in banks off-shore not being taxed, instead of its being used to create jobs, which is what it was supposed to be doing.
To: chemdmd - You are calling other people " Dumb" ???? Why you absurd piece of Flotsam. ROFLMAO !!! Democrats are the only one's with truth on their side these days. You really need to stop watching FOX and stop being lead like a child. ROFLMAO !!
Okay, so I read the Speaker's PDF file. This is just.... just... er, "bat@!$%# crazy insane" barely scratches the surface of just how absurd and asinine it is. The chief claim being made by The America Treason Party is that the fabulously wealthy can continue to pay a smaller tax rate than the poor and the middle class, and that $800,000,000,000 will mysteriously appear if and when "loopholes" in existing taxation rules are closed. Further, they insist that many of the civil services citizens have been paying for all of their lives, but in great part have not been provided, but be crippled or privatized.
Are they really this absurdly divorced from reality?
Hold on, Rachel. It is an actual counteroffer, but it is one that proves that compromise is impossible. The President now needs to begin preparing the nation for the fiscal cliff and outline what he will do after the automatic tax increases and spending cuts hit. He will need to be ready to do it unilaterally, or nearly so. The GOP has obviously learned nothing from the election, but the President can't wait for them to get up to speed.
The Republiturds are just going to have to do something FOR the country instead of all their angry money donors. It's time to actually do something for the people who are working for those overpaid executives and being told to give up their health insurance, benefits and part of their income to pay those same overpaid executives bonuses and raises. It's time this cycle of stupidity to cease entirely and start the long process of returning America to a country where the American Dream is still possible for those that work hard. Now just working hard means you have to give up more to keep some idiot rich guy waist deep in profit.
Ok, if we go over the cliff, curb, bump, "scary date" on the calendar, whatever, as a low middle class teacher, my taxes go up about $2000 or $167ish a month. It is a lot of money, however, I could survive and at least feel like I was doing something to clean up the mess and invest in improving things in the future for my own children and EVERYONE is sacrificing not just the few at the bottom end. It seems to me that it may be worth it just to let the triggers go and start from the reality of what happens rather than let the Republicans continue to control everything when they did not win the election. Would it be better to agree yes, but not at the expense of letting crazy lazy voodoo cooky fake math be used as facts.
After reading the GOP COUNTEROFFERED , they , like romney , were not prepared to meet President Obama who had a back bone , and who is in a no nonsense mood to help america move forward , instead of allowing the gop to undermine our economy , and trash the working class
So I'm confused...We've had the "trickle down theory" for a while. Without it there will be no job creation (GOP), but with it...the economy is crap and not enough job creation(GOP). So which is it? Does the GOP not thing we're onto this? I'd like to have things both ways too...for instance...not buy a lottery ticket but become a millionaire overnight.
Pro growth tax reform means revenue generated through the republicans imaginary programs where math and reality don't exist
If the Republicans don't make any serious counter-offer we go over the "cliff"... right? However, if we go past the deadline, what happens? Predetermined spending cuts go into effect and the Bush tax cuts come to an end and the rates automatically go up to what they were during our greatest boom in recent history. OK, the spending cuts would be bad, especially now while trying to dig ourselves out of this hole... But the Republicans WANT the spending cuts. Maybe not these exact cut, but reduced spending is their mantra.. isn't it?
And then we come to the roll back of the Bush tax cuts... How is this a bad thing for the Republicans? If the taxes increase automatically they can all KEEP their promises to not raise taxes. They can then push for lower taxes in the next Congress and it's all Oboma's fault that the taxes went up because the Administration never made a serious effort on the "fiscal cliff" before the deadline.
I can't believe nobody made the connection before....
The temptation for each party to call the others' bluff and go off the fiscal cliff will affect the poor the most and most immediately (esp. children). They should not be left out of this "debate". We do need to rein in spending and we do need more revenue. But, we must be careful to remember the most vulnerable as we, hopefully, embark on a more rational course of governmental revenue generation and funding appropriation.
No, no, no… they are being told to go go off the cliff/speed bump/jump the currb and refuse to raise the debt ceiling.
These folks are trying to say Obama WANTS to go the extreme, yet the President keeps showing them the way out of this, put forth a bill to keep Middle Class tax cuts as they are. How in the heck can they say we will continue to obstruct and cause harm to this country?
They are nuts.
It's as if they just cannot allow the President or US to win, no matter how destructive. That is very childish.
The Congress is already blamed and the Rs have the weight of this blame on them. Their beloved party is doomed of they keep doing this.
I have to wonder what percentage of AARP members vote R. And if they can still do so next time, knowing the Rs want cut them off.
The republicans are basing this on the grand bargain proposed by Obama which Boehner refused in 2011. Let us hope that Obama's desire for the 4 trillion grand bargain is gone.
The Tea Party, some Republicans and Norquist are nothing more than economic and political terrorists. Sorry. Just so annoyed with these blubbering idiots and their demands.
Uhm... who won the election?
"Breaks for middle class impt for families & econ. if top rates don't go up, danger that middle class deductions get hit - bo," the president said via Twitter.
So he's stating if repubs dont cave in and allow an unfair out of control tax structure for the top earners that he is going to punish the middle class.
Genious.
Reading comprehension isn't your forte. is it?
Writing isn't either.
I would love to send Boner, Can'tor, and McConnell over the fiscal cliff personally.
But...But...Boner wore his special ORANGE tie...that makes it REAL...for sure....