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In the post-election environment, conservatives' appreciation for facts, evidence, and reason is taking longer than expected.
Nearly half of Republican voters say that ACORN -- the community organizing group that closed in 2010 -- aided in stealing the 2012 election for President Obama, according to a new poll released Tuesday.
The survey, conducted by Democratic polling firm Public Policy Polling, found that 49 percent of GOP voters believe that the president did not legitimately win reelection because ACORN interfered with the vote.
So, ACORN doesn't exist, but nearly half of self-identified Republican voters suspect the defunct group of boosting Obama's clear win. This really isn't healthy.
That said, Jamelle Bouie had a sensible defense of the right on this, arguing, "Kevin Drum calls this evidence of the 'Fox News effect' -- the process by which conservative propaganda outlets convince their viewers of things that just aren't true -- but I think there's a better, more charitable explanation. In short, a large number of Republicans don't like President Obama, and when offered a chance to endorse something that signals that dislike, they did it, even if the "something" is absolutely insane."
Perhaps, but as Steve M. noted, Fox Nation published a lengthy series of items throughout the election season telling conservatives that ACORN really does exist and is up to nefarious misdeeds.
It's quite possible, then, that many on the right still fear the non-existent group precisely because they've been told to by news organizations they trust.
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Oh, you silly English Person! Acorns are small and brown and lie on the ground.
Since 2010 they have turned into mighty oaks that soar above your heads. Look up, foolish persons. Oh, wait; I forget: Republicans cannot see the trees for the (Democratic ) forest!
Your poetic justice escapes me not.
There in lies the problem with those acorns---the trees are not the right height!
They also believe there is a real Santa Clause and he can come down the Chimney. I love a spell check that works, myself.
Thank you, Mom.
True, ACORN doesn't exist under that name. The same organizations, run by the same people, in the same places have renamed themselves. It's a matter of semantics.
The same way that if the Koch Brothers renamed American's for Prosperity, or the Tea Party renamed themselves, the pundits and critics of those organizations would say they still "exist."
The worst possible explanation is that the republicans polled are just plain stupid, the best is that they are actually informed and are ignoring the semantic subtlies and objecting to the functions of the those organizations regardless of the name.
The truth is probably somewhere in between.
Thanks for the daily demonstration of just how ignorant stupidity has to be, to be as ignorant as you wingnut asswipes.
LOL, why is it you think everyone is stupid, ignorant, right wing, or all three?
Are the trees not producing enough acorns? We need more rain, please and Thank you. There are squirrels in my bed. One of my friends' called me a squirrel once. I do not like blind dates with Westpoint cadets, sorry, he wore a pirate shirt.
TCinLA...your language is a violation of the code of conduct.
just saying...
Stormfront, TC's post is correct, ignorant troll.
OOPS!
I guess I violated the code of conduct there!
:p
The right still thinks ACORN exists
What a surprise. They also believe in Gallup's polling data, creationism, a 10k year old earth, immaculate conception (And its opposite, miraculous conception prevention in rape), and magic budget numbers that add up to whatever they say they add up to.
What don't they believe in? Reality.
Mitt Romney's surprise at losing the election was a come-uppance.
And many on the right still think they're in charge of the government.
Only because they are. Ever heard of Mutually Assured Destruction? Either we give them what they want or they can destroy the
worldeconomy.No. The only way they can destroy the economy is if they get what they want. Like they did from 2001-2008.
And if I believe that Unicorns/fairies/magic beans exist that's also not making it so is it? Really, exactly what kind of a rube must you be to live in FAUX world where the only reality that exists is what FAUX says?!? Frankly I'm so frustrated and angry with these racist idiots I can barely speak. I know, they're not racist, except that every with every whine/ignorant protest/talking point repeated by the sheeple/trolls they provide exhibit A!
And exactly why isn't this mass psychosis - a true break from reality and how can we get these people the mental health treatment that they really, really need? It must be terrible to be that terrified of life and anything that doesn't look like you....
What is the way out of the psychosis Zora? I think we would be in much better shape if people were motivated to vote of their own accord. Ok, I don't like the compensation- of using behavioral psychology tricks to motivate voters to donate and vote. Long term, you can give people fuller educations in critical thinking and introduce them to the psychological depth they will need to understand the cognitive traps laid for the electorate by powerful economic and political interests.
Short term, I see that we can use more sophisticated motivational weapons like those used by OFA, but really these can easily fall into the trap of machine politics- with a system of precinct captains, patronage and the rest of it. What is the check preventing the rise of entrenched leaders- authoritarian party bosses? Maybe you could do elections, but that didn't save the Unions from the takeover by the bosses. Formulating the solution this way converts it into a political homonuclus dilemna- with an infinite regress of control- of parties within parties, and then parties within those parties to safeguard against strongmen takeover.
In economics, the broader stakeholders principle that guys like Chomsky advocate make lots more sense than current systems, but the issue of democratic control is the same. For the last century, worker self management experiments have failed, with companies going back to hiring conventional managers. Mabye the fábricas recuperadas movement in Argentina will do better, but I don't see they have solved the primary puzzle of effective informed control by voters.
The solution may be possible now which in previous periods was out of reach. Due to greater access to information, it may be possible for the electorate of a company or a country to become sufficiently informed to make intelligent choices of representatives, and direct votes on matters before them.
Such national governance involves some sort of integration with mass communication. Fox news is a perverse top down system for efficient propaganda distribution, but it seems to me that an activist network would have to have something similar to MSNBC with shows representing different and often conflicting caucuses or interest groups. The purpose of the network would be to shun echo chamber communications, but not pretend to be unbiased, It seems to me you need a mechanism for rapidly reaching all members on issues and establishing the common ground of national discussions.
It seems to me we are nearing a place where such approaches integrating MSM, social networks and an effective national political direct democracy organization using OFA techniques are possible.
Honestly John I don't know. Aren't people voting of their "own accord" right now and that hasn't helped US - just look at Congress! And though I believe that enough power amassed will corrupt as it has done to the GOP, I don't believe that "power" should just be held by 1 party as is current practice! But what I do know is that 1) we have to take the money out of elections because right now it's just way too much money which has corrupted our political process, 2) Congress needs to have term limits and they shouldn't get the benefits packages that they do - they need to have the same retirement that other working Americans have, 3) the revolving door from Congress to industry should be slammed shut, for good!
And while I can appreciate OFA techniques, we need something similar on a grass-roots level that knows each & every state and can and will turn out when needed. But above all we need an informed citizenry that can and will engage in and can participate in elections!
If ACORN didn't exist, the right would have to invent it.
Political prostitution is not a victimless crime. The GOP are spreading a disease that is eating away at the heart of America. It is time to rein in the pimps.
Cause of Action, a nonprofit government watchdog group, recently identified 174 active or rebranded ACORN affiliates, as well as organizations that share former ACORN staff.
The groups shared the same physical location, leadership or staff, or tax ID number as old ACORN chapters, Cause of Action said.
At least two of the groups, Affordable Housing Centers of America (AHCOA) and Mutual Housing Association of New York (MHANY), have received federal dollars. According to MHANY, it receives funds from the Federal Home Loan Bank, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), and Fannie Mae.
Well, THAT certainly proves the election was stolen.
Oh, wait. No, it doesn't.
It doesn't prove anything other than that Acorn does still exits - just by different names.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't ACORN fire the people who were committing the frauds, and decided to tell the press instead of trying to cover it up?
And secondly things like this. Where a guy/group start a company, commit election fraud, dissolves the company, only to open up another one, to be hired by a national party to run their registration efforts, and get caught committing fraud again, never happens in the Republican Party...oh wait...it did, my bad.
The point of the article is 'look at these stupid republicans, they think this organization still exits even though it doesn't and they think this organization influenced the election. And they think this because Fox News told them to think it'.
And the fact is that Acorn DOES still exist under different names, they DID engage in illegal activities in the past and it is reasonable to believe they still could be.
ACORN and its voter registration arm, Project Vote, used to hire marginal and unskilled workers at very low rates and use incentive bonuses or quotas to encourage them to collect as many voter registrations as possible. The resulting flood of registrations are fraught with duplicates, errors and omissions, and a large number are overtly fraudulent, including names like “Donald Duck,” “Mickey Mouse,” “Tony Romo” of the Dallas Cowboys, etc.[2] According to Matthew Vadum, the senior editor at Capital Research Center, a total of 400,000 bogus ACORN registrations were thrown out in 2008 alone.
And I am responding to this article specifically, which doesn't contain anything about right-leaning activist groups committing fraud.
@RMB69
I have seen claims that ACORN was absolved of all crimes it was accused of. It was forced to disband by politicians, not by any criminal proceedings. Of course, the claims to that effect could be false, as could your claims that it did commit crimes.
Besides, lots of "Corporations" comit crimes and continue to exist, BP and Ge come to mind.
RMB - thanks again for the daily demonstration of wingnut ignorance. What you cited as the "problem" was not in fact the problem associated with ACORN, though your propagandists certainly have you semiliterate fools believing it.
TCinLA - my intent is not to 'troll' on this site but to engage in a real discussion. I'm only expressing the facts that I see and read. If I'm saying something thats truly 'illiterate...propaganda' please point it out.
Acorns taste like ear wax.
RMB, yes, Acorn hired many workers who had little to no income other than Acorn. But Acorn turned in EVERY Registration form to election officials, as they are required to do by law, bogus or not. With Acorn's submissions to the election officials, ACORN FLAGGED ALL THE BOGUS REGISTRATIONS FOR the election officials. Acorn also fired those workers, routinely, who "collected" bogus registrations. Go back and read up on this.
Acorn's only crime was trying to register voters, especially low-moderate income voters.
The point is larger than Acorn... it is the fact that 20-25% of Americans believe that the election wasn't legitimate for any reason. And the fact that those 20-25% are so beholden to their beliefs that nothing will shake them from those convictions.
And that those 20-25% have an outsized influence on the Republican party, especially in the primary stages is even more frightening, because it means that the politicians will still be in thrall to that group instead of, well, fighting for ALL Americans.
>that< is the story here. How can we have a discussion about how to move the country forward when there is such a huge group of people that won't even acknowledge the same reality as the rest of us?
Easy. We can't. Because without the crackpot conspiracy theories, 21st. century Republicans will have to focus on policy and an agenda that benefits all Americans. Were they to do that, they'd be 21st century Democrats.
Their only hope for "relevance" is to be obstinate and stand in the way of progress while convincing enough people that they're NOT standing in the way of progress and the lack of progress is all the fault of Democrats, while also working to suppress voters and convincing other voters to not bother voting, so that they can finagle their way into getting 50% of the vote + 1. They know this. That's why they're doing it.
Given that these people are basically proudly unwilling to learn, intensely tribal, disproportionately regional, and already often want to secede, I think we should implement the Declaration of Independence's statement about government by consent of the governed, and encourage any state that so wishes to secede.
That percentage is the same as the people that want to secede from the Union.
And, I suspect, they are the same people that still think there are WMDs in Iraq.
So, a couple of posters above see this as semantics, that ACORN still exists in all but name.
Did you imagine that the people in the ACORN organiztion suddenly turned into Republicans? You shouldn't be surprised that these democratic activists dusted themselves off and waded into the fray again, reborn and rebranded. And why not? Turns out that they ddin't do anything wrong in the first place - They were framed, as it were.
The point of the article, I think, is that the GOP just cannot shake off this victimhood mentality. They need red meat to gin up their flagging base, and rather than look inward, they choose to lay the blame on anything but their policies.
When all was said and done, ACORN didn't do anything wrong, but the lies and hype from the lying teapubs did them in. Now, that guy the teapubs hired WAS found to be lying, cheating, and committing fraud, each time he changed the name at the request of the teapubs.......oh wait. That's different. The teapubs can commit any crimes and fraud they want to cuz they are teapubs and it don't count.
According to Fox, they can do whatever they want, even lieing to the public and trying to pass it off as news.
Just like PMSNBC. And BTW Angel you really need to stop eating earwax. I hear it kinda tastes like acorns.
double post
As part of the effort by some chapters to stay afloat by severing ties with the national organization, members and staff of California ACORN founded a new organization, the Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment New York ACORN members and staff founded New York Communities for Change, and an offshoot of the ACORN organization called Acorn Housing changed its name to Affordable Housing Centers of America yet has retained the same tax and employee identification numbers that it held under its former name.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-174-hidden-acorn-chapters-still-exist/
Yup, they are still around in some form or another. Same Employee and Tax ID numbers.
And still innocent of any wrongdoing.
Ah yes, pascoguy cites Glenn Beck. Thanks for the daily demonstration of bottomless ignorance, you moron.
What in the hell does the moron Glenn Beck have to do with anything I said? Sorry TC. Go stick your head back in the sand.
Squirrels bury acorns all year long. The largest acorn on record was recorded at the Tompasco ridge in Kentucky, a whopping 7 pounds.
repost for Pasco's sake.
RMB, yes, Acorn hired many workers who had little to no income other than Acorn. But Acorn turned in EVERY Registration form to election officials, as they are required to do by law, bogus or not. With Acorn's submissions to the election officials, ACORN FLAGGED ALL THE BOGUS REGISTRATIONS FOR the election officials. Acorn also fired those workers, routinely, who "collected" bogus registrations. Go back and read up on this.
Acorn's only crime was trying to register voters, especially low-moderate income voters.
ACORN et al wouldnt matter *IF* the gop msg resonated w the majority...outside of the old confederacy.
From a sociological perspective or for pure entertainment, I can understand the fascination that some have with what republicans think. But at some point all of the countless polls documenting what republicans believe simply gets in the way of seriously addressing the many important issues.
"republicans think" is an oxymoron.
"republicans think" is an oxymoron.
Gotta love the mind that inbreeding create.....
Those pesky rabbits. Sometimes they follow you around.
ACORN did nothing wrong, yet was killed by the far right. I guess it helps to keep their name alive as a way to deflect attention from actual repub voter registration fraud by the company that had been caught doing the same thing in the past, and changed its name to get a contract to do the same in the recent elections. And yet the men who approved this and failed spectacularly, Reince Priebus and John Cornyn, did not lose their jobs, and in Cornyn's case, was promoted! Only in repub bizzaro world will you fire a chairman who produced spectacular success, Michael Steele, and retain the guys who produced equally spectacular failure. I blame it all on ACORN...they're also behind global warming, the death of Elvis, and the demise of Twinkies!
These people need serious mental health treatment; you'd think they'd appreciate that it's becoming more available.
That's why they're against the ACA.
Yeah, it's the tail eating the dog.
It's good to bite the hair of the dog sometimes, you have to when you have a hangover.
Yeah, neither did OJ Simpson......they admit it, get off on a technicality. does't mean they didn't do it....
18 former workers have admitted guilt or been convicted on varying charges of election fraud.
In Milwaukee, three former ACORN workers have been convicted of election fraud.
Kevin Clancy was sentenced to 10 months in prison for his role in submitting falsified voter registration forms before the 2008 election.
Maria Miles pleaded guilty to election fraud
Frank Walton pleaded guilty to submitting 54 fake voter registrations during the 2008 presidential campaign.
Kendra Lynn Thill was convicted in March of voter registration fraud in the 2006 midterm election
In Pennsylvania, six of seven former ACORN workers who were charged in an investigation were convicted of unsworn falsification and interference with election officials. Four have reached a plea agreement on reduced charges and will serve two years of probation.
Good Lord, how much more do you really need???????
Well it seems you don't have a clue, here is one none of these workers were in charge of ACORN, really that is the same as saying a Koch worker was found guilty of theft so therefore David Koch is a thief. I'm sorry to burst the little bubble you live in but reality is you can not blame the employer for actions done by workers. If that were the case then all businesses would be out of business.
And the fact is that even if these folks had submitted fake registrations, (Mickey Mouse, Batman, etc.), those folks would still not have been able to vote. On the other hand, repub groups have been found to be working the voter suppression game, destroying dem registrations or not taking them at all. That can be a very effective tactic...if they can make it work without getting caught. So far, they haven't shown themselves to be capable of that most of the time, which is great for our democracy. People don't like being told they will be intimidated if they vote, don't like being told the wrong day or place to vote, all of which repubs have been doing. Worst of all, people don't like being threatened with the loss of their jobs if you don't vote for the candidate the boss tells you to vote for.
When I was a high school kid and worked at Burger King, sometimes I'd wolf down some fries while on the clock.
Burger King is guilty of fostering an atmosphere where criminality was suggested, NAY, ENCOURAGED, otherwise they would have stopped me.
The fact that I was not in a management capacity and those that were didn't know of my fry thievery does not release them from culpability.
I'm a straw man...AND I VOTE.
Ya know, Mitt Romney had the same creepy Burger King smile.
Go back to urinating on fire hydrants in WackoWorld. In the meantime, mommy wants her computer back, little boy.
pasco, Acorn submitted all forms, bogus or not, as required by law, and BROUGHT THE BOGUS REGISTRATIONS TO THE ATTENTION OF THE ELECTION OFFICIALS. And Acorn fired those workers who were submitting bogus forms.
Unlike the friend of the Repubs, NATHAN SPROUL, who ILLEGALLY THREW OUT ACTUAL REGISTRATIONS B/C THEY WERE THE WRONG PARTY, GOT CAUGHT, GOT PENALIZED, FORMED UNDER A NEW NAME AT THE BEHEST OF THE RNC, AND THEN DID THE SAME ILLEGAL THINGS ALL OVER AGAIN.
Isn't it about time for the Greed and Obstructionist Party to stop calling themselves the "right" wing? What have they been right about? They're wrong about everything.
They have never been right about anything in history, conservatives keep repeating the same crap over and over thinking that by changing faces that will make the failures go away but reality is it is not the people at fault but that they follow a failed system. Which is why they believe that a lie told more then 3 times turns the lie into an unquestionable fact.
the Greedy Obstructionist Party - I like that. We could also call them the Greedy Old Party.
Or Gas and Oil Party. Or Greedy Old Pharts. There are a lot of acronyms that work.
I like your horse, is it mean?
Stop! Stop! It's already dead!
http://youtu.be/mAUY1J8KizU
Why is this even an item ? Why do we even need so-called "voter registration" organizations or drives ? Is it because the school system is failing to teach civics anymore ? Is it because these so-called "voter registration" drives "remind" voters to only pull the democratic lever ? Is it because the average IQ of the inner city voter is 80 or less? Is it because the average IQ of the red-neck voter is 80 or less? Is it because BOTH the Dems and Repubs are so corrupt they need all the fake voters they can get? Is it because the education system is teaching students WHAT to think instead of HOW to think because tenured teachers and professors have no accountability ?
Oh wait, just tax the "rich" more and the problem will go away.
Boy. Talk about a lack of education.
Give him a little credit. He used good grammar and proper punctuation, and at least was coherent. In other words, head and shoulders above almost any other troll. I guess those tenured teachers and professors he rants about must have done some good after all.
You know, you could look up the information that would answer your questions, but then that'd cut into your trolling time, wouldn't it?
Pitiful, just pitiful...
I had some great teachers. My School graduated Carl Sagan. Billions and billions of years ago. Our History teacher was cool, he fell asleep on his bayonet, about giving out hall passes. Why, didn't I ditch History that day, she asks. Because, I wasn't sure if it was a real walk-out or not, You didn't have to mimic the words, I'm gonna kill you to me in the hallway. I would have ditched when the time was right, you taught me that much.
I think you mean "The right thinks ACORN still exists."
The man with the shadow knows, it looks like Tom Hanks or Kevin Costner.
Wow, no updates since yesterday morning, hope Steve is all right!