Courtesy: Meryl Schenker Photography
Yesterday we published the wonderful photo of Larry Duncan and Randy Shepherd getting a marriage license in Washington state. Duncan and Shepherd moved there from Dallas because they wanted to live in a more gay-friendly place.
Commenter @JohnMesserly writes:
The migration part of this story interested me. Is this an extension of the polarization of states story? Like- you have some states with red supermajorities effectively banning abortions and other states going the other direction, ending the war on drugs, LGBT folks, and people that don't have Y chromosomes.
I wonder if the idea of the Far Right is to create such onerous laws in red states that people will self deport- thereby further solidifying the GOP grip on power in those states.
If so, they get no prize for originality. For example consider the Great Migration out of the south due to Jim Crow laws.
FWIW, I come from the state that voted to ban same-sex marriage by the widest margin in American history -- 86 percent -- and what surprises me when I go home is how many of my LGBT friends have stayed. They're not self-deporting. I suspect I probably did.
Thanks again, Meryl Schenker, for the photo.
Leave a Comment:
I love this photo!
I hear "Rough Boy" by ZZtop was their first dance.
hey William,
VERY GOOD!
I love this photo too!!!
Now I think I've seen it all.
(And I honestly don't mean that negatively).
Hope they have the happiness in Washington that may have been stunted in Dallas.
Now if Texas would leave US.....
Welcome Larry and Randy. Our state, while not utopia, is a great place to live. I Hope you find acceptance and prosperity here.
Now if you could only do something about the weather...
we like the weather here Dragoon21b thank you very much!
It keeps the Californian's away ;P
Doesn't keep this Californian away, Josh. Baker, Stevens, Crystal... practically a regular! Great photo of Larry and his Randy man!
ha ha too bad you're stuck with me, i'm a so cal refugee and believe me i hate the friggin winters here! it aint easy, but i'll live on the north pole to avoid oc republicans.
Hey, no dissing Pacific Northwest weather!
We grow moss on our feet from the rain but on the other hand we have the greenest most beautiful scenery and the bluest water. I love my state But I would love live in the high desert for awhile. I love the wide open spaces.
Hey! I resent that! I'm a Californian and Seattle is one of my favorite cities. It's not all sunshine in California, I grew up in the cold, snowy mountains.
Sorry they had to leave Texas. I am not gay, but have some friends here who are, and they are not planning on leaving. I am certifiably Blue however, and moved here from Florida last year, so there is evidence also of Blue migration into Red states as well.
I'm constantly amazed at my sane friends in Texas deciding to remain in that fetid swamp of ignorance, stupidity, and mendacity, the state founded by back alley assassins (Bowie), cashiered Army officers (Austin), failed politicians (Crockett), financial failures (Houston) and other assorted bank robbers, rustlers and bushwackers. Thank the goddess I self-deported long long long ago.
Yeah, Texas seems to be where the the cast of Deliverance that runs the GOP goes to regroup. It can seem like a ringwing wasteland. However, my city has the one of the biggest MLK Day and Gay Pride Parades in the country. Us blue dots are getting louder and bigger here as well. I would like our politicians to keep their eyes on their purported tasks...like improving employment, education, infrastructure-call me crazy. I think I'm sane. Not gay-but P-FLAG friendly. I am of the opinion that what happens between consenting adults is not my concern. I don't think we should let the Dittoheads run us away from family, friends and employment. The successionsts may leave any time -It's still a free country.
It's hard to leave if you have family living in the Red state.... Especially in hard economic times as well.... but we can still dream of living in a free~er state.
I live in a hard-core red state. In California, Washington and other supposedly liberal states what you get is regional polarization. You can leave the San Francisco bay area with its rainbow flags and empowerment and 1.5 hours later see a cross burning in a field around Stockton. Never confuse liberal cities with liberal states. I have gay friends who live in gay ghettos who will never feel accepted unless the whole world accepts them. I call that "control mania." Acceptance is most importantly an inside job. If you don't accept yourself as you are, where you are, validation by the entire planet won't make a bit of difference.
Accepted. But if I have to worry about when (not if) my windshield will be caved in by some fool who objects to my Obam/Biden 2012 bumpersticker, I'm probably not going to remain there.
And to echo Laura, I was raised in Alabama, undergrad in Georgia, and I've never been back South in 35 years. To be honest, I'm afraid they'd smell my blueness and shoot at me. And it would be my fault as the victim because I chose not to own and carry a gun.
I see your point. Being gay and coming from Ohio, everyone in that state just knew that you headed to Columbus when you could, because that is by far the most gay-friendly city in the state (a solid blue dot in a largely red state). Cities that embrace and cultivate vibrant gay communities can always be a refuge, no matter what state they are in. I also lived in Seattle for 10 years and even though that city is so liberal, there are parts of WA state that are just as scary and intolerant as anywhere in the South. Very anti-tax, anti-immigrant attitudes especially in the Eastern part of the state.
Hahahahaha, Helena! I can totally relate. I actually decided not to put my Obama/Biden bumper sticker on my truck, as passionately as I wanted them to win, out of self-preservation. (You know, "Why bring that up?")
Politically, it's lonely here, but we did deliver a Democrat governor (Bullock) and re-elect our Democrat senator (Tester), both of which surprised the hell out of me. What I like about this area--in addition to the natural beauty, which is stupendous--is that it's not a money economy here. People don't have money, that is. There's a lot of barter, making do or doing without. We don't have a single traffic light in the entire county. It's a nice change of pace from the other, more frenetic places I've lived.
So I'm a Blue micro-dot in a really, really Red state. And it's not all bad.
Well, JL, there are a couple more liberals in MT this week planning to stay and raise a family.
Step by step ...
As a citizen of Washington State we are always happy to have more good citizens but it's sad that people can't be accepted for who they are regardless of where they live.
I think the comparison to Jim Crow laws is actually apt. I don't think it's necessarily an intentional effort to make people relocate but I am sure that to some degree it has a certain degree of influence.
What I do think is going on here is the continuation and broadening (to include Latinos, LGBT, and other groups) of the cultural schism that has plagued this country since it's creation.
The Civil War didn't stop it the Civil Rights movement didn't stop it and having an African-American President hasn't stopped it and until we have a Serious National conversation about what it means to be an "American" and prejudice in all it's forms it's never going to.
I yeald the soap box
I think Jim Crow is a perfect comparison but it goes beyond race and orientation. In previous times many of the red states had little or no welfare benefits so the poor moved to states that had better benefits and job opportunities. These states were exporting their poverty to save money. This same idea applies to felons and the mentally ill who were many times put on buses to major cities. Some states export their problems to other states. And this type of conduct even applies within states with large cities. Rural counties put people on buses to large cities so these governments do not incur the expense of taking care of these people. At least the federal government stepped in on welfare benefits to equalize them across the country. But there still is a lot of dumping by rural areas because of cutbacks in government budgets. This is why Republicans would like to cut welfare.
But did you self-deport solely because of one issue, or were there multiple factors (e.g. not simply those factors that "targeted" a specific characteristic of your personality but those that were reflective of negative factors affecting all people in the state, such as the general economy, or some things that lured you away simply because the attraction was so great)?
My guess it is because of multiple factors. Being gay in a red state can pretty much affect every aspect of your life from whether or not you are safe in your own home to being denied the right to maximize your earning potential and having to live with the fear of being fired because your employer finds out you are gay. I was listening to Stephanie Miller this morning and a man from SD called in and said he was fired from his job for being gay. Because SD is a RTW state, he really had no recourse.
I don't think they are passing laws to make it intolerable for liberals to live in these states. I think they pass these laws because the laws are simply an extension of their belief that they are right and we (the liberals) are wrong.
There are many states in the north, for example, that had anti-slavery laws on the books for many, many decades before the south was forced to accept these laws as the law of the entire land. I don't think we fault Blacks/African-Americans who went on the underground railroad to get to a place that is safer and more accepting for them. Even now, these states are not the beacon of openness for African-American families. So to is the situation for LGBT families in many states as well. Remember, people still get really hurt and die for living how they so choose.
No, that's just a welcome side effect. Life is just so much better when you never have to associate yourself with anyone who doesn't agree with you. Especially if you can't fire them and aren't sure you can get away with threatening them.
This is the dumbest question. Obviously, people have been doing this for decades, that is why the country is so divided. Why do you think we have Red States and Blue States? Like almost everyone else I grew up with in Kansas that was a tolerant, open minded person, I moved to a Blue State after high school. Duh. Self deportation? Yes. Brain drain? Yes. Craziness in Red States boiling down to it's most potent free-base form over the years, thus exacerbating the problem? Yes, obviously.
And aside from the LGBT angle, I'll raise my hand.
I was born in Arizona more than 60 years ago and have lived here all but two years since. All three children were born here, and all of them have degrees from the University of Arizona. And as soon as I don't need to be here for work, I'm gone. "Hostile work environment" can be cured, but "hostile living environment" is another matter -- and when you live in a district where Republicans run unopposed and where having an Obama bumper sticker is a good way to get your car vandalized, it's time to seriously consider the future. Or whether you have one.
So, being a lifelong desert rat, I'm headed for a more congenial environment about four hundred miles east of here. I'm secure enough in my masculinity that purple suits me just fine.
New Mexico and Southwest Colorado have some nice desert playgrounds :) I also love the land in Arizona and Utah...but the culture is a tough pill to swallow, indeed. Good luck with the move!
"when you live in a district where Republicans run unopposed and where having an Obama bumper sticker is a good way to get your car vandalized, it's time to seriously consider the future."
Ha! My Impeach Nixon bumper sticker disappeared after the Chicago Police stopped me and took me to a station because I didn't have my DL with me. And my car was parked in the police station lot.
Having grown up in Nebraska and living in Arizona now for graduate school, I honestly do think these laws are custom designed to drive people away. I know that when Nebraska passed it's anti-gay marriage amendment, I heard it said outright that they wanted to discourage gay people from living there. Mission accomplished!
Arizona is just that times 1000. As a result, my husband and I will leave AZ as soon as my degree is done. We'll take a PhD for me and his advanced degrees and two lifetimes of earnings that could have been taxed somewhere else. I'll miss the desert, but we're young and the disadvantages heaped on you for being gay in a red state simply don't seem worth it.
It's easier for me at the end of my career (and no more kids) than for someone starting out. If it weren't for the need to make a living, New Mexico and Nevada are more or less civilized of the States with deserts. Otherwise, you'd have to consider Australia, Chile, and a few other relatively civilized places.
Or give up the desert, which is what my daughter is doing. She's OK as long as she can have mountains.
If this divide persists not only will we be a country divided by politics, we will be divided on racial, religious and sexual orientation issues. I shudder to think about the extreme polarization this might bring about and the alienation that will occur when many different groups of people segregate over perceived differences, rather than assimilate on the basis of commonality. We might need a reincarnation of Lincoln, not just a movie commemorating his life.
A reincarnation of Lincoln? I respectfully disagree. I think that, unlike Lincoln, we need to accept that extreme polarization is a reality, and can't be mended with well intentioned politics. We need to correct Lincoln's mistake and let the white supremacist fascists of the Southeast go. Let those that live there who wish continue to self deport to civilized states, and let the religious, authoritarian racists govern their own decline into their fascist fantasy world.
Only problem with that is some people can't afford to "self-deport". We can't just write off these areas and allow the people in charge to strip their rights. ~Progressive Texan who ain't going nowhere
I live in urban San Diego, California. For miles around, it's one big Refugee Camp.
I'm a super-extrovert, with a big gay men's group that I lead (almost 3600 members), so I talk to a LOT of strangers. I tend to ask them "Where are you from?" and when they tell me, they tend to list places that are deep, DEEP inside red states. I then playfully ask "So - how soon are you moving back?" and they visibly shudder.
We are in an unprecedented time in human history - Young, idealistic, open-minded, creative and intelligent people know that they don't fit into a culture that disapproves of them. They soon realize (due to the influence of the Internet) that they are NOT the only ones, and that there is nothing wrong with them. They get the hell out of their home towns and move to a large urban center, either nearby, or on either coast. It's cheap to move, and has been for a long time.
This leads to a massive brain-drain from red states into blue, and the colors are intensifying. Yes, it's great for those of us on the receiving end of such great talented and free-thinking new folks, but it deprives those red states of champions who will fight for change.
The monoculture of "what church do you belong to?" is getting more and more hardcore in the Bible Belt, while liberal change in the blue states is accelerating.
I moved from a progressive blue state to a red state, and I regret it. The reasons seemed good at the time, but now...not so much. My neighbors are nice, but many of them have a Rush/Fox mentality. And it's not very much fun. There are creative, open young people, but they leave. I miss the music, art, craft fairs, social networks, good bars, ethnic restaurants, new ideas, the library, wild, fun people of my old progressive home. Many folks already disapprove of me just cause I'm a democrat; they don't know the half of it.
North Carolina is the same way. By the time I came out, I'd managed to find a comforting community in the theater and art scene in Raleigh. I know that's a liberal area, but it didn't feel that way when you spent most of your time in Catholic school. Since Amendment One happened, there hasn't been a mass exodus of the gay people and families I knew - in fact, I think they're more committed to staying put than ever. I left to go to college, but a big part of me wants to go back for graduate school.
While I was born and raised in the South, I self-deported myself away from the ignorance, prejudice, and conservative influences so prevalent below the Mason-Dixon Line. I would prefer that all my sales, property, income, and other taxes/fees be used where I'm among like-minded people. While I'm neither gay nor likely to start smoking pot, I believe in that concept of "live and let live" if you're not harming yourself or anyone else. For me, that's the PNW.
I self deported from Oklahoma 3 years ago and don't regret it at all. For decades I lived under boneheaded ultra right rule in a state that is a financial failure. The last straw for me was when a bigoted state senator stood up in-front of the Oklahoma legislature and called me a "terrorist" for being a gay person ... and all the other lawmakers gave her standing applause. Never mind that I worked for years in law enforcement, was an Eagle Scout and volunteered my time and money to Oklahoma charities, to our leaders I was a terrorist. I said f you to all of them and brought my talents to Dallas. Its by no means a liberal place but its a huge improvement over bad and bigoted Okie leadership. I wish the happy couple all the best!
Oklahoma, the state founded by southern whites too stupid to steal land from the Indians on their own, so they had the government do it for them and have hated to admit it ever since.
Isn't Oklahoma basically the much stupider version of Texas?
My brother was born in Tulsa in '73. I was part of the desegregation effort (bussed from an all white neighborhood to an all black school. I think I was one of the 50 white kids). It was an eye opener for me and I do not regret the experience. What I remember of Okie was bad roads, and one hell of a stinky river and one very corrupted sherriff that patrolled Catoosa. My family moved in 74-75. Went through there in the 90's. Biggest change? Catoosa was the port to Tulsa. The roads were still bad (maybe even worse despite the money they were raking in from the tolls) and the river was still stinky. When my family hit Oregon, I talked my dad into staying and have been here ever since. It is not fear that will divide us in the US - but the courage of conviction.
Laura, I appreciate you noting that many of your LGB friends in Mississippi have stayed. Speaking as a Southern (White, cisgender) gay man (and originally from MS as well), I am concerned with how metropolitan areas are seen as the only viable places for us queer folk. No state is a sure thing, no place a haven. Yes, clearly, some places are worse than others, but many of us find spaces or ways of living in spaces that would on the surface seem inhospitable. Southerners are often stereotyped as intolerant, but can be much more affirming and welcoming than many, particularly when family is involved. I don't want to paint the South romantically, but I have made my life in various Southern states for 40 years.
Even when the climate is less hospitable, many Southern queers find ways to have a good life, either from choice or necessity. Some cannot afford to leave, but many others choose to stay around family and/or friends. I certainly appreciate the many spaces and cities in our nation that extend legal protections--they are welcome and needed. But neither are they queer utopias either; they have their own problems for LGBTQ people.
So I doubt there will be any kind of exodus. No place is safe from heterosexism, genderism or sexual conservatism. While some laws have made life a little more difficult for some of us, by and large, geographically things are not much better or worse than they have been for quite a long time. And the legally-friendly locations still offer their own barriers to queer lives.
It's bull@!$%#, really. A therapist once told me all I needed to do was just move to a city and I would magically discover people who "loved and accepted me as I am." Chose your shrinks, carefully, kids!
Hal Sparks talks about this a lot when he is on the Stephanie Miller show. He truly believes that the GOP in some red states make conditions so bad for the poor, minorities, gays, etc. in hope that they will self-deport to another state.
Allow for a moment that some people can't stand to live where they aren't politically welcome or in the majority or whatever.
I'm from rural Kansas. I may see myself self-deporting to a bluer state, but never to a gay-friendly urban area, despite the fact that I'm gay and essentially Bernie Sanders on economics. Why? I grew up in a smallish town (for Kansas), I've lived for short stints in Denver, Phoenix, and Kansas City, and I can't stand the places.
I suspect a lot of us are like that, as well.
Well, fortunately there are plenty of small towns (and quite a few are tolerant University towns, including my new home) outside of Kansas.
I seriously doubt that my daughter and her fiance are likely to ever move back to large cities, despite both growing up in them.
I too grew up in rural northern Kansas. I escaped shortly after HS graduation. I'm white, not gay and couldn't stand living in a small town where everyone knows your business. After living in Houston and a few other places, I settled in Austin Tx and I love it. Austin has enough blue dots that I sometimes forget Texas is a red state.
Yeah, there is this notion that GSM people all love cities (or should).
in reply to DC sessions. Also from AZ and I agree with you. I was a public school teacher for 20 years and just couldn't take. I took a job teacher overseas (Cairo, Egypt of all places) and even with family and friends in AZ, I'm not entirely sure I can go back.
If I lived in a relatively progressive place like Cairo I don't know that I could go back to the land of Joe Arpaio and Jan Brewer either.
Another point worth considering: liberals and progressives in red states/areas are doing good work in prodding their communities to become more progressive, and I sometimes feel like they are being written off or neglected by those of us who live in blue states/areas. These folks need our support!
Chris, you are so right. We do forget about those people in conservative communities who are working hard for more progressive values. It can be hard, discouraging work, and they do need our support. Thanks for mentioning it.
My husband and I left Oklahoma for sunny Portland, Oregon, and one of our primary reasons for leaving was that we didn't want to live in a state where we were treated like second-class citizens (or, more often, like evil demonic vermin). There, we had no protection against job discrimination, housing discrimination, we couldn't get any legal rights equivalent to marriage, we couldn't adopt, and we were surrounded by people convinced by their God that such discrimination was Biblically pre-ordained and non-negotiable. Here, we've got a domestic partnership, can adopt, are protected at our jobs and home, and we feel welcomed and embraced by the community at large. Every time I go back to Tulsa to visit my parents, I feel "other," I feel somehow "alien," and I get a real sense of "outsider go home" from the locals, which is reinforced by road signs and church signs expressing Biblical absolutism and hate.
I hated living in Portland. Sad because I thought I'd like it. Portland is an island/bubble you know. You only need to go so far as Wilsonville or The Dalles to find far-right wing extremists.
yes, but in Oregon, those extremists have no right to deny us housing, employment, hospital visitation, or adoption, among other things. In Oklahoma, those same right-wing bigots would legally be allowed to fire us, evict us, and deny me the right to stay at my husband's hospital bedside. Portland may be an island, but we still have rights in the entire state of Oregon.
This Portlander is happy to welcome you as a citizen!
I was raised around the world so moving is not a problem for me (military brat/eng. & constr. adult) .. I wound up living in a blue city in a red state for 20 yrs. due to my work and also due to the fact my body doesn't handle cold weather. Some will self deport .. but there are a lot that won't move from where they were raised .. it's something I don't really understand but I have met hundreds that will not even consider moving 100 miles from "home". But of my nomadic friends .. several have moved to blue states as they feel more comfortable there. Unfort. for me the two blue states that have warm enough weather for me are two of the most expensive to live in so I just make do with living in blue cities (NOLA currently, Inner-city Houston previously) in red coastal states. But you do have to have money to relocate and job skills that transfer .. which does keep some from moving even if they want to.
Congratulations Larry and Randy! From your neighbor in North Bend. Have you eaten at the crepe place on N Bend Way? Good people and good food.