When the protests start this week over anti-union legislation at the Michigan state Capitol, union workers from Wisconsin will be there. The so-called Right to Work bills would weaken labor unions in Michigan, except for those belonging to police and firefighters. An organizer from Ironworkers Local 8 tells the Wisconsin State Journal that after what Wisconsin has been through, it's easy to get people to cross state lines to stand up for union rights:
"A lot of things are eerily similar to parts of what happened here in Wisconsin," said [Randy] Bryce, who expects 40 to 50 people from his union to travel to Lansing, Mich., by Tuesday when lawmakers reconvene and Snyder plans to sign the bills into law. "I would say what’s under attack there is even bigger because they decided to go after the public- and private-sector unions."
The image up top comes from the Overpass Light Brigade in Wisconsin, who write: "We Wisconsinites understand exactly what’s going on in Michigan. Right to work is deceptively named. It kills wages and destroys the middle class."
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I feel for you MI...and know that there are TONS of us WI people behind you all the way. Our Republican governor (Walker) shafted us. We have to break up this GOP malarkey across the nation. It's ridiculous.
which means Get Out The Vote in 2014 all across the country!
Please look at this video of my son, Michigan State Representative, Brandon Dillon, as he addresses the issue of Right to Work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsI2xc_FYX0&feature=share
Your son did a wonderful job. I know you're proud of him!
You must be so proud. I have been in this fight here in WI since day one. My grandson goes with my husband and I on occasion to our solidarity sing alongs, he has been out on informational pickets supporting Palermo workers and out supporting striking Walmart workers. It's so important to teach our young people. My grown children went with my husband and I over the years as we stood up on many issues. Many people take what we have had here in the US for granted. It's nice to know that there are other parents and grandparents out there that have taught their children that Democracy is a participatory government and it is our duty to participate. Great Job Mom!! :)
Solidarity from WI
Let's NOT Forget about the Attacks on the { United States Postal Service } that the gop/tp has been ATTACKING Either !
MS Maddow, you need to spear head a movement that calls right to work what it really is: The right to work with no benefits, low wages and as many hours as humans can possibly work in a week. "Right to no rights at work law" would fit better.
Or as Hostess demonstrated, unions can carry the standard of "No Work at All".
@Shooter242
as in Hostess, what was demonstrated by management, GREED
Remember in 2004 they filed for protection under Bankruptcy and operated that way for 4 years and came out of bankruptcy in 2009. This is their second bankruptcy, perhaps it has more to do with Poor Managment, Bad Business decisions and Overpaid Executives.
People. We're talking about unions that required Hostess to deliver bread and Twinkies in separate trucks to the same store. No sympathy.
"People. We're talking about unions that required Hostess to deliver bread and Twinkies in separate trucks to the same store. No sympathy."
Shooter, something like that is a negotiated contract item and was agreed to by the company. Direct you ire in the right direction.
Poor shooter just can't grasp the complex world of reality. Here is a clue shooter, twinkies and bread are packaged different and stored in delivery trucks differently so in reality 2 trucks were needed because to put both products on 1 truck meant the truck wouldn't be able to fulfill an order in 1 trip so it was actually cheaper to use 2 trucks then it was to use 1. Not only did that mean returning to the factory, it also meant the driver sat around until the truck was refilled so he could go finish filling the order. Twinkies are sold by the case whereas loaves of bread are sold by the loaf. Twinkies can be stacked whereas loaves of bread can not be stacked or the bread will be crushed which means people won't buy it. So again we get the usual non think from the right.
You're actually going to defend such an absurd arrangement? Can we imagine the threats that must have passed to make a company submit to such idiocy? I think the word we're looking for is "extortion".
Shooter, you really need to stop wallowing in your ignorance, particularly out in the open where the rest of us can see it. Obviously, you don't know anything about food production. Go back and read Whomitmay's comment slowly and carefully. That's the truth whether you like it or not.
The workers themselves decided to crash the party , you know , the people who are actually there witnessing how f&cked up the situation is THEY are dealing with ? they are not snot nosed know nothing pansies , standing on the out side with out a clue , with nothing to offer but whining , like some people
shooter,
In the past I have had the honor to be elected by my co-workers as a negotiator at contract negotiations. I did it three times. The threat of a strike is the last thing you want to do. If you go on strike, then how quickly will you be replaced by replacement workers. Nobody wins in a strike, one side may loose worse than the other maybe.
You also don't seem to comprehend the responsibilities of both sides in a negotiation. As a negotiator, it was my responsibility to get the best contract possible for my co-workers. The company negotiators have the same responsibility for the company. So often when a company shuts down the union takes a lot of unjustified blame.
shooots~ STFU ~ U-R Delusional ! U-R as delusional as the Gomers that U follow ~
U-Sheeple-U ! U may want to pull that ring out of your nose !
Bascoda, Could it possibly be the case you've never seen bread stacked in racks? I have this clown on ignore for very good reasons.
Tom51, people negotiate all day, every day. I have little doubt the national obsession with banishing junk food had as much to do with Hostess going out of business as it's debt and the unions. But it took a lot to make executives vote themselves out of a job.
Mud, You have my sympathy. I'm very glad I'm not you.
Still don't get it do you shooter. Heres a clue you are wrong on everything you post, just ask president Romney, oh wait you can't he isn't president. Really shooter find a job and buy yourself a life your failing at being a serious poster.
Thank You Wisconsin!
I understand how they feel, Texas is another one of those right to work states.
I'd like to thank Wisconsin for their show of solidarity! Unfortunately the bill is going to get signed no matter what. Snyder wants to wave his ... around. Hopefully this will guarentee he is out of the capitol in 2 years along with the rest of those republicans. Breaking the unions in Michigan has got to have some pretty big costs.
"Right to Work" is a lie. I live in Fl., a right to work state, and it's a horribly unfair policy for the employee. I've known many loyal employees that have worked for "a" company for years only to get fired or laid off because the boss's nephew/niece etc...wanted a job. Dog eat dog world is the "Right to Work" policy.
Conservatives seem to have forgotten that businesses need consumers.
The GOP Lame Ducks are squawking their last time. Democrats will be elected to replace the cowardly Republican hoodlums who passed this bill. It will be overturned and citizens will be given another chance to vote against it as well when Dems retake the legislature.
Everytime the GOP does something deceptive or tries to pull a fast one in the dark of night like this, it comes back to bite them in the behind. They think they are so smart by terrorizing working people, but it's them that will punished in the end. The bell tolls for thee, Republicans. The GOP will go the way of Reagan, gone and not missed in the least.
This will just make labor that more determined to set things right again in this country. All service employees and even bank employees will be unionized someday because of these cheap theatrical tricks by the GOP. Those are jobs that can't be outsourced.
i live in a "right to work" state, and let me tell you it SUCKS for employees. they can fire you without notice or reason, and its perfectly legal. there are no rules about meal breaks , or rest breaks.. you may not get any, and that also, is perfectly legal. you may be scheduled for a 10-15+ hour shift, and guess what? yes, its all perfectly legal. now, your company , or Boss may be nice enough to allow you breaks, or have a system about being fired, but that doesnt mean they HAVE to follow it. since it isnt a state law that they do. because thats what "right to work " means .
But many people feel that one day they too will own a company and then they can give their employees the shaft like they have gotten. I have a friend who continuously complained about working in a non-union shop. He finally got enough finances together to start his own business. He has completely turned 180 degrees...he feels that he can treat his workers anyway he wants because he is now the boss. I have called him a hypocrite to his face, with no effect. Now, I think I will call him a Republican.
I am also originally from a "right to work" state and now understand the great service unions provide. I've been fired once in my entire life and it just so happened it was after I asked for a raise which would have bumped me closer to the pay the men in my field were making. Once they knew I was in the position to feel confident enough in my work, to ask for that, they realized it would be cheaper to start over with someone else.
I have really had to do homework and learn a lot about unions since moving to Wisconsin. I have often had questions regarding their constitutionality but never their effectiveness.
I also know that one thing a lot of people never want to hear is that people can be dumb, ignorant, and short sighted sometimes and sometimes, you have to tell people what is best for them. "Whoa?!", you say?
Seatbelts. Auto insurance, health insurance. Helmets. Vaccinations. Those are all things that are not only good for the individual but in the long run, are good for the economy and our society. They cost money and are required. I believe unions fall into this same category.
While learning about them, many questions arose that I often hear from anti-union folks, because they are reasonable questions to ask when learning or not having information and knowledge of the subject past a certain point however, it only took a little more investigating and long term thinking to get my answers.
One, for example, is why should someone be forced to pay union dues? A perfectly reasonable question. The answer is the same as why you should wear a helmet. It protects you which, in the long run, is good for society.
Those who have these questions but never find an answer that progresses their thinking tend to have the same problem in other areas such as understanding investment in infrastructure or the benefits of making sure your employees have health insurance.
I am so incredibly proud to be a member of the Overpass Light Brigade!
Unfortunately, To many base their thought's on what took place in the early day's of the Labor Movement, But that is what it took to Get ALL WORKING PEOPLE what is taken for Granted today.
All large companies are run by a board of directors 10 - 15 people usually who decide what to make, how it is to be made, where it is to be made etc. These boards are elected by majority share holders i.e. the 1 percent. All decisions are made according to what is good for the 1 percent. The only way the workers factor into the decision making process at all is if they belong to a union. Even then, companies can decide to ship production overseas. This is insane! What is needed is workplace democracy. As a country we have the ability to require that ALL publicly traded corporations be unionized as a matter of law. Furthermore at least 40 percent of all board members should be union representatives. It is high time that workers have some actual say in the decisions that
affect their lives.
rich the carpenter,
I work for a global chemical company that is headquartered in Germany. In Germany, on the executive board of the company are elected union members. In the United States this company has sites that are unionized. One of which is mine. The company would very much like to do away with the unions here in the U.S. Very strange the different attitude between Germany and the U.S.
I'm beginning to wonder if this union hostility is just a U.S. situation.
@Shooter -- the Hostess disaster is an example of management greed and incompetence -- it's not the union's fault.
Over the years, the union has responded to management demands for givebacks by making one concession after another, in exchange for management promises to invest in the company and fix problems in the way Hostess was run. But management did nothing, except give themselves large raises from the money they extorted from the workers.
Eventually the jobs were so bad, and so low-paying, that they weren't worth saving anymore, so unions refused to offer another set of givebacks. And who can blame them?
Yes...it is the union's fault. A group of 500 bakers were not willing to take the same cuts that 18,000 other employees agreed to..including the teamsters. Thanks to that union's insistence on not compromising, everyone is out of a job.
Now, you can argue that there were all kinds of factors that led the company to be in the position that they were in, but when it came down to it, the company would still be in business if the union had agreed to the 8% cut.
just saying..
Hey Storm, I also read that over the 5yr time frame Management was asking for a 27% reduction in Wages based on $16 and change. Will look for where I found that.
What I have read in numerous locations, is that the company was requesting an 8% pay cut and that they were asking the employees to begin paying a portion (17%) of their health care benefits. Last year, the company paid out over $100 million in health benefits for retirees and about half of that was for people who did not even work for the company (spouses, children, etc).
I will make one correction to my earlier comment..there were about 5000 members of the bakers union
just saying...
I'm a history buff - and history repeats itself. I'm from
Germany. Know a lot about the
Hitler years. Had the majority of Germans been more knowledgeable, had they
applied critical thinking and looked at facts, and they been less complacent...instead
of blindly believing the lies from Hitler's propaganda machine (hell - Hitler
even had Joseph Goebbels as his Minister of Propaganda from 1933 to 1945),
there would not have been a 2nd World War! There would not have been a need for
an Israeli state. The largest Jewish communinty in the world lived in
Pre-Hitler Germany. They were not persecuted then. The new Joseph Goebbels is
Rupert Murdock - he is very dangerous, along with the Koch Brothers and the
like! The ideology on some issues is different when comparing the Teapublicans to
the Nazis (the Teapublicans are just a tool of the Financial Elite), but the
methods of manipulating the people for unsavory agendas is the same!
Hmmm, I was under the impression that there were far more Jews in Poland and the western USSR than in Germany prior to the war. That was why the camps built in Poland and the USSR killed so many more people.
The parallel here is that wealthy and influential backers of Hitler thought the 'hate the Jews' stuff was just useful pandering to racist voters and nothing would ever come of it. I would imagine those funding the very far right of the GOP view racism, immigration, and voter suppression in a similar light.
And then they end up with Rick Santorum talking about 'Blah People'.
Teaparty activists want a government that pays as it goes, is limited in scope, taxes with representation and keeps taxes low. They want a balanced budget and want social programs reformed so that our children and grandchildren are afforded the same safety nets as this generation even if the benefits are somewhat smaller or come into their lives a little bit later. I don't see anything in their ideas that resembles Hitler. That is scare mongering on your part. The fact that some people would like for our nation to be built on independence and strength of character where people take pride in taking care of themselves and in building businesses and working instead of being dependent on the government doesn't seem at all dangerous, but very common- sense oriented. I am not afraid of wealthy people. They hire people. Without them and their corporations, there would be fewer jobs than there already are. Poor people don't create jobs, so we should be thankful for the wealthy businessmen who give us jobs.
Business men to not 'give' jobs, they hire people to help them conduct a profitable enterprise. It is a contract, not largess.
With 70% of the economy being based on consumer spending many jobs are created as a response to poor and middle class people spending money, not at the whim of the generous nature of the wealthy.
As a defender of the Tea Party, which parts of the discretionary budget would you cut for a total of a trillion dollars a year? Leave Social Security and Medicare out of it, the payroll taxes pay for them for at least the next decade. Also, the stimulus bill has run its course and is likewise not available for savings.
Would you cut Medicaid, and throw the frail elderly (primary recipients of Medicaid funds) out of nursing homes?
Would you cut Head Start and throw three and four year old kids out of preschool? (If so, be ready for a wave of crime in about 12 years.)
Would you cut Defense?
Would you cut the Federal Prisons and Courts?
The ACA (ObamaCare) saves money, so cutting there actually makes the deficit worse. Cut there?
SCHIP funds health insurance for little kids (the cheapest population to cover, btw). Cut that and degrade our future work force?
Foreign Aid is tiny and mainly goes to Israel and those signing peace treaties with Israel. End aid to Israel to save maybe 10 billion a year?
Where would you cut? You either have to come up with 1000 billion in savings each year, or you have to raise taxes in order to balance the operational budget of the US.
One small group in the U.S. is trying to dictate to the 99%. Are you kidding me, they have no right trying to push their sorted methods and dark wizardly tricks on the rest of us, be gone trouble makers. Old worn out prejudism and crony bigotry left this country decades ago. I think this group is the last of the Mohecans. Bye, bye don't let the door hit ya on the way out!
Whats' your hurry here's your hat.
Whoever gave them the greenlight, I bet, are rethinking their tactics. It'll be reversed, if it even gets that far. They're just grasping at straws, now, stubborn little buggers' ain't they? They oughta be concentrating on how to bring the manufacturing back to the States, instead of trying to kill the entire Middle class.
Wisconsin workers have no business interfering in MI politics. That is for the citizens in MI to work out.
And if out of state money was not calling the shots in Michigan politics, you would have a point.
But, since those changing the law rely upon out of state support for their reelection campaigns, then it is entirely fitting that out of state volunteers help those being targeted by the change in the law.
Big money should not go there either. That is completely a MI issue. I totally agree with "Right to work" I live and work in a "Right to work" state, and it works really well. I saw and continue to see how teacher unions negatively impact educational progress. Since the inception of collective bargaining the forward progression of our students' education has ground to a halt. We continue to get farther and farther behind. The bargaining does not benefit students whatsoever. Only teachers and many of them poor teachers. Unions protect those who deserve to lose their jobs as well as those who don't. That is wrong!
Two rather significant outside people are pushing the RTW bill in specific and the Tea Party as a whole; they have the same last name, not so coincidentally.
Jes,
Considering I have personally witnessed school administrators packing so many kids in a class room they violated the fire code for the room, and that the only group willing to take the school to court was a teacher's union, I am afraid I must disagree.
There has to be some group able to stare down school administrators when they are in the wrong. The only group able to do that in many schools is the local union.
Right to work is great if you're a manager, calling all the shots, otherwise you have to bow down to some of the most ludicrous ways of work, it's insane, people up on top have no idea what manual labor is, and they want to dictate to you the way it's gonna work, when it doesn't and it won't, and they're bringing down productivity, because of all the rules, and then they take the entire dysfunctional conglomerate and employ the good guys at Bain to come in and piece by piece sell you out to another Country, Walla, there you have the chain reaction, of how jobs' get shipped to other countries, That is the new model, that is the new way to bring down a Company. That is Orwellian Capitol at it's best. The Right to work simply means they are giving you the right to work, you have no choice, It is a god-given right that you work, following all their idiotic methods that are destroying America and it's people.
In our state, you do have a choice. You may join a union or not. That is what freedom is all about. I chose not to be a part of the teacher union since they do not have the students best interest. The union is all about benefits for teachers. And I saw on several occasions the union step in on behalf of really sorry teachers in order to save their jobs when in fact, they needed to go. Reduction in force policies negotiated by unions did not allow the school districts to save good teachers when cuts were required. They had to keep teachers according to seniority. That again is not benefiting students when a bad teacher is allowed to stay and a good teacher goes because he hasn't been in the district as long. What about pay. Good teachers are paid exactly the same as the teachers who are very bad. Not beneficial to students. I could go on and on about the detrimental effects unions have on business and jobs. Unions are all about saving jobs for their members whether they are productive or not. And what about the autoworkers that were seen repeatedly doing drugs and drinking on their lunch times and then they went back to work. The union was all about making sure their jobs and their rights were protected. They were going back to work under the influence. The bosses should have had the right to fire their a**** the minute they walked through the door in that condition.
You can try and sell that long-winded story of yours all you like. I come from a huge family of teachers, who would beg to differ with you on all your fictitious facts, from the talking point playbook of the 18th century. Teachers' rule, and don't you forget it. They take from their own pockets and help the children less fortunate in their classes. They are devoted, some of them have taken great strides in learning their profession and you are blogging on the wrong website, you need to read your brainwashed scheme of a notice and burn it, it's a ridiculous talking point. We know teachers. A lot of them. We have graduated from great schools and we appreciate it. You must be talking about those Charter schools that are prepped only in pushing your kids through school and getting the kickback from our government. Sorry, your charter schools suck! Send your kids there.
Jess 33, Well then keep the Koch's out of Mich, WI.
Jess33, One other point, Don't just blame one side for either protecting or letting a Worker off the hook or something. That takes place in Both Union, Non-Union, and WE all know that. Bad employee's exist in every type of Workplace, and your View apply's to both sides. And Why is it that it seem's only the Big Buisness and Repub's are calling for RTW?
"The so-called Right to Work bills would weaken labor unions in Michigan, except for those belonging to police and firefighters."
Will the police officers and firefighters show solidarity with their fellow public unions and refuse to work when other union members are losing their rights?
I will go as far as saying Carl Rove may actually believe that he himself is the Anti-christ, who was born on Christmas Day in 1950. The boy next door was actually born on Christmas Day, and he was perfect, even when he ate sardines out of the can with my sister, even when me and my best friend in the whole entire world, would go and collect worms for him, to fish with. Will you marry me, Bill, just kidding.
right to work as it is equals the right to be a slave. now if right to work meant if you handed in an application and they had to hire you that would be different. as it is now it just means you can work in a union shop and be represented by a union without being a dues paying member of that union. if they want to make a right to work law it should read you have a right to not have to jion a union to be employed but conversely you also don't enjoy the benefits of union membership such as representation, union contracts etc... in others words you're free to negotiate all that with the company on your own. maybe you'll get a batter deal... maybe.
Right to work until the boss gets into a fight with the wife comes in and fires the first 20 people he see's. Or you want a 10 cent raise because you worked for him for 5 years without a raise but wait his sisters son needs to have something to do because his mom is getting tired of his Xbox playing so the boss decides the nephew deserves your job even though the nephew will more then likely do nothing, but hey your expendable and it will stop his sister from harassing him nightly. Oh the joys of right to work are limitless on taking away your job. All things I have seen in non union shops and businesses, in fact I knew one business owner that only hired family friends and women he picked up at bars. There was also another Tool and Die owner that would only hire people that went to his church when the State came down on him for not hiring minorities he shut down the company and tore down the building.
How does my starting a business end other people from losing their jobs because the boss was a whiny little republican. Oh yeah thats right you have no real solution to a whiny republican boss who doesn't have to answer for his small minded childish behaviors. Well we can see how you failed at posting anything more then a whiny republican response to what non union workers deal with.
And now we see what home schooling does for you.
Angel 77- I taught school for 32 years and I too have taught with a number of very good teachers. But any teacher who doesn't admit that schools are riddled with poor, underperforming teachers are lying to themselves. Any excellent teacher that doesn't recognize that he gets paid the same as the teacher who sits on his duff, is out the door when the bell rings and doesn't continue his education etc. is silly. We have all recognized who is strong and who is very weak in the teaching profession, and the good, dedicated teachers who are truly interested in a child's future want to see that weak teacher go do something else for a living. I have jerked out and homeschooled my grandson when a poor teacher didn't have the interest to do what they should do and sadly she was tenured. Tenure is a whole other ball of wax that needs to be addressed. You are living in a dream world if you think that there aren't poor teachers who should be fired. The unions have made it where it is so difficult and so costly to fire a teacher that districts don't even attempt it. To be fired, a teacher almost has to commit some criminal or heinous act. And if a district doesn't follow the procedure to fire that type of teacher to a T, the unions will make sure that teacher retains his job also. Very inefficient system that does not do service to our nation's children. Unions protect the poor workers as well as the good workers, sometimes to the detriment of the good workers.
Right and we are to take your word everything in your post is true. Except we know this is just another drama queen lie made up by republicans to make unions sound bad.
John, Head Start has never proven to be beneficial and yet the feds are still throwing money at it. All programs that are not beneficial should be shut down completely. SS and medicare? Even if we use your quote of 10 years before it goes belly up. Then what? Are we just going to wait until that happens, or address it now? Libs just want to put their heads in the sand and wait for that to happen. They are willing to just go about business as usual. Yes, let's cut some out of every federal program. Even the pet projects of all of the politicians. There is no money and we have to face reality. Perhaps the fiscal cliff is what needs to happen to make the feds cut spending. Everything needs to be on the table to get our fiscal house in order. Nothing would please Obama more than for us to go off the fiscal cliff. Then he gets taxes on everyone and can try to blame the republicans. There is no way he can make a dent in the debt reduction by only raising taxes on the "rich". And to quench his thirst for spending, he needs more money. He doesn't intend to cut spending.
As a native of Flint, MI where both GM and UAW were founded, who grew up blocks from the Chevy Plant where battles were fought in '37- '39 I've watched this battle a long time. Despite gains made by unions, I came to see them as having become excessive and self promoting. I spent my working life outside the union world while I watched from afar as GM abandoned Flint and UAW moved to Detroit.
In today's world what's happening is similar but also sinister. The anti-Labor Movement we're seeing is financed by the Koch Brothers and their ilk. Part of a long term strategy to reduce the middle class to low wage employment. Maybe RTW does bring in more jobs, but they're what my wife calls "Texas Jobs," plenty of em... all low pay and no benefits. God Bless America!
you know what they say, you get what you pay for. if you don't want to pay your dues then you can look forward to low paying jobs with no benefits. just because they no longer manditorily take the dues out of your paycheck doesn't mean you can't pay them voluntarily. don't be a steaming pile of dumbass pay your dues keep your unions strong keep your pay keep your benefits.
good for Wisconsin!