With memories of last year's brutal debt-ceiling crisis very much on his mind, President Obama said last week, "We can't afford to go there again." He added, "The only thing the debt ceiling is good as a weapon for is destroying your credit rating.... I will not play that game."
This morning on Fox News, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) responded, "Yes, we will play that game."
For those who can't watch clips online, Graham's on-air comments about the "rude awakening" awaiting the White House were pretty remarkable.
"In February or March you have to raise the debt ceiling. And I can tell you this, there is a hardening on the Republican side. We're not going to raise the debt ceiling. We're not going to let Obama borrow any more money or any American Congress borrow any more money until we fix this country from becoming Greece. And that requires significant entitlement reform to save Social Security and Medicare from bankruptcy. Social Security is going bankrupt in about 20, 25 years. Medicare is going bankrupt in 15 or 20 years. [...]
"Yes, we will play that game, Mr. President, because it's not a game. The game you're playing is small ball. You're talking about raising rates on the top 2% that would run the government for 11 days. You just got re-elected. How about doing something big that's not liberal? How about doing something big that really is bipartisan? Every big idea he has is a liberal idea that drowns us in debt. How about manning up here, Mr. President and use your mandate to bring this country together to stop us from becoming Greece."
It's rare for a prominent public official to put this much nonsense into a 90-second television appearance. Graham's comments make absolutely no sense, and his threat to hurt the nation on purpose is, for lack of a better word, nuts.
"We're not going to let Obama borrow any more money"? Actually, as Graham should know, raising the debt ceiling is about paying the bills for spending that's already happened.
"Social Security and Medicare" are going bankrupt? No, actually they're not.
The United States is at risk of "becoming Greece"? That's just plainly stupid.
Clinton-era rates on income above $250,000 "would run the government for 11 days"? No, it'd generate nearly $1 trillion in revenue over the next decade, which would help reduce the debt built up by the policies Lindsey Graham supported -- tax breaks for millionaires, two wars, Medicare expansion, and a Wall Street bailout, all of which was added to the national credit card without a moment's thought.
Obama needs to do something that "really is bipartisan"? Every major policy proposal of the last four years -- health care, Recovery Act, American Jobs Act, Wall Street reform, etc. -- included provisions that have traditionally enjoyed support from both parties. The radicalization of the Republican Party isn't the president's fault.
"How about manning up here"? There's nothing "manly" about hurting seniors while protecting millionaires at all costs.
But even looking past all of that, the eight words to remember here are these: "We're not going to raise the debt ceiling." In other words, according to Lindsey Graham, Republicans intend to hurt Americans on purpose. They will, quite deliberately, hold the global economy and the full faith and credit of the United States hostage -- again -- until the president agrees to take benefits away from senior citizens.
Why this isn't a shocking national scandal is an ongoing mystery.
For what it's worth -- and to Lindsey Graham, it's probably not worth much -- American business leaders, investors, and financial sector are siding with Obama when it comes to the debt ceiling. In other words, "job creators" think Graham and his Republican allies are damaging the country with their antics, which have no precedent in American history.
That generally means something on the right, but for now, that's no longer the case.
As for the White House, it seems the principle should be repeated frequently: the president will not negotiate with those who would deliberately harm Americans.
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"Greece" is a drinking game, right?
The one where you chug a drink every time a Republican says we'll turn into Greece? I don't think there's enough liquor in the world for that game.
Greece is in trouble because their austerity program has wiped out who knows how many jobs-reducing the tax base therefore bringing in less money to pay obligated bills WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS MATHEMATICALLY CHALLENGED SOB would do for the USA.
He is INSANE!
Well, on a larger point, Lovely Lindsay is correct- we CANNOT allow America to become Greece.
And the way to avoid the fate of Helena- and the rest of the PIGS (shooter, that is Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain), is to not adopt the Euro as our currency.
To put it a way that lesser intellects can fathom: When the Coast Guard posts Small Craft Warnings in advance of a storm the Navy does not haul its aircraft carriers out of the water.
He actually said the president should use his mandate to do something big that is not noble. He actually said that! What he doesn't understand is that President Obama is about to do things that are both big and noble. For some reason, Linda Graham thinks the two are mutually exclusive. He needs to realize he is simply a passenger on the train. He doesn't run it, he doesn't own it. He is just a passenger and he should mind himself to be well-behaved.
More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending! More military spending!
If Graham was anything more than the overly-inbred Southern moron he is, he would understand that the problem for Greece is that they do not control their own currency. If they did, they would be able to make changes that would affect Greece, and would have prevented them going into this insanity of having to live under the rule of the Reichsmark, er, I mean Euro.
The United States does control its own currency, so "going Greece" is not a problem. Of course, it takes more than sleeping through Econ 101 and proving that Southerners are too stupid to ever learn anything, like Graham obviously did with his "Southernomics" a la his traitor ancestor Alexander Stephens, (see "The Cornerstone Speech" Stephens gave in 1861, his economic program reads just like the "modern" GOP.)
As far as I am concerned, idiots like Graham and the rest of the Southern political class are proof we let the Confederacy off way too easy.
You people will believe anything. Yes, the tax hikes will only cover 11 days of Govt. each year. And yes all the programs mentioned spend more than they take in, the essential definition of bankrupt. Even the WP story cited says so.
What it also says is that you folks will have to do with smaller checks. Good luck with that.
Shooter's post translated: "blah, blah, blah. so mad robme lost. blah blah blah"
We do not negotiate with terrorists. This nut shrinking pigmy just infuriates me every time he opens his mouth. He is just a rabble rouser trying to incite anger to blame on those he disagrees with for political gain...and now this piece of trash (yes he deserves the name calling) is just lying at the top of his lungs hoping anger will blind people to the truth. Raising the debt ceiling should just be like house keeping...it just maintains the house.
If he wants to do something about spending then bring a bill to the floor that deals with spending since the debt ceiling issue has nothing to do with future spending...and Graham knows this...which is why he makes me so angry...he is just grandstanding at our expense. Uuggh.
Question: if we go off the cliff and taxes are raised across the board, will we still need a debt limit increase?
Yes. We'll hit the debt around the same time as the fiscal cliff unless the Treasury Department takes drastic action to raise revenue without borrowing (the same kinds of things it did last time we almost hit the debt ceiling). They'll almost certainly do that if they need to, since a global economic depression is the alternative option.
Even after the fiscal cliff hits there will still be a budget deficit, and the total debt will still increase and eventually hit the limit.
Yes, to pay the interest charges on what we have already spent.
The Repubs can control spending anytime they want, for now at least, because the House controls the gov. purse strings. All they have to do is vote and pass a bill that spends less, then hold strong when the Senate wants to spend more. They are too COWARDLY to do this. Their finger prints would be all over the resulting cut in help to the aged. No they want to share the push/blow back with us (the Dems) to cover their a$$es.
I keep hearing about the president invoking the 14th amendment. Are they talking about the part about the debt not being questioned or the part about Congressmen and Senators taking part in an insurrection? I kind of like both. I've asked this question on another feed and I'm still waiting for an answer.
@ Jane
I believe it is the part about not questioning the debt. It means, I think, the Pres. just ignoring the debt ceiling law on the grounds that it is un-Constitutional as it forces him to "question" the debt. But, I am no expert.
We could improve the quality of life in this country of we quit listening to anyone in WASHINGTON from SC, NC, GA la AL, , MS, or OK....................................................
you can add Louisiana to that list
As a native Mississippian, I wholeheartedly...agree.
I like Graham thinks that to avoid becoming Greece we need to cut entitlements, which is exactly what Greece did and now look at them! So essentially he thinks that in order for us to avoid becoming Greece we must become Greece.
It's the same logic that said, "We had to destroy the village to save the village." It made no sense in Vietnam, and it makes no sense now.
Lindsey sits there the entire time making his comments and staring at the woman's chest. Classy, Sen. Graham. Besides the garbage coming out of your mouth, your eyes show exactly who you are.
You know... of all the lunatics in the Republican party (and, it is only a party for those of us watching them scramble for cover)... Lindsey Graham is really the biggest snake in the grass. He has a complaint about every single thing on EARTH!
Think of what he has been doing in the last month... The Benghazi (I loathe hearing this twit say that name) idiocy... Voted against the disability bill for the UN... says he will go against Norquist and the "pledge", but in fact, always has "but" in his response to it... Mentions on numerous instances that the President "covered up" things before the election. I could go on.
He is a disgrace to the United States of America. He is dangerous. And, this man really needs to go away. He makes me want to vomit.
And, let's add one more thing... Fox News... what a damn surprise!!!!
The only person playing games is HIM!
@Jango
Good point...Graham is like a repressed homosexual who lives in bitter denial and takes it out on everyone who is happy in the least. When everyone is crying and hurting he spits on them and calls them trash then scowls away. Just look at him.
bjobotts... He really is a little beotch. And... to call him a repressed homosexual is an insult to repressed homosexuals. A play on a line from Jamie Lee Curtis in A Fish Called Wanda.
He is just so miserable about EVERYTHING ON EARTH.
When he voted against the Disability bill that nutty John McCain voted yes for... I wonder how that went over between the two Benghazi Brothers?
I am sure he will be making more rounds this week at the different networks, spewing his trash.
Lindsey Graham is talking as if he has power...someone better tell him and the other lying, cheating Republicans that they are done!!! The sane part of the country has spoken...no one but the misinformed care about what he,FOX news people , Limbaugh, Hannity,O'Rielly or anyone one else there says...they are as irrelevant as the shameful Donald Trump..Didn't you all learn that you couldn't but the election!!!We are on to you!!
Fox happens to be the most watched news in the US. It's ratings are 50% to almost triple MSNBC's depending on the program.
And all that says is that there are more people that enjoy the Lies and are affraid of hearing the truth. My guess is you also fit that group.
It may be more watched... however, nothing ever stays that way. If they didn't have anything to bitch about every single day... whether it is the truth (yeah, right) or a lie... their ratings would be in the toilet.
The more people call out Fox... aka the Rupert Murdoch Democrat Hate Machine... on things, the better. Soon, people will just tune in to see what lie they are up to next is. Eventually, they will be yesterday's "news".
I will stick to MSNBC and CBS.
I used to actually like Brit Hume and Chris Wallace... before they sold out and went to Fox. Now, they are just another perfect example of what a disgusting place it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Jes is committing a logical fallacy asserting that because more people watch something that necessitates that it's more true.
For the record by this logic 20/20 and 60 Minutes are more factual than Fox because they have nearly 2x the viewership than Fox's nightly viewings. MSNBC beats out all other news channels when they air their Lockup series (which is why they pump it out hardcore on the weekend). By this logic that would mean Lockup is more factually true than Fox. American Idol beats alllll of these programs ten fold. That would mean, again following the same logic, that American Idol is more factually accurate than Fox. This is why we don't blatantly pander to fallacies- doing so makes you appear the fool.
Next time address the arguments being made with substance and provide evidence for the argument you are making. That will make you appear credible and will give authority to the statements you make. Pandering to fallacies only weakens your position and makes people naturally assume...to put it bluntly...that you're an idiot. Don't insult your own integrity and intelligence by allowing this to happen.
In actuality, MSNBC's top shows are beating Fox's top propaganda. Just Google it, pretty well reported.
Fox did replace Glen Beck - now if only the channel would follow thier own lead...
That explains A LOT of the misinformation, jes33. Faux is the KING of extremely slanted opinions about news.
Which is not NEWS, which is what it is you stated.
Fox is NOT the most watched news in the US. It may be the most watched on basic cable, but not in the US. In fact even the lowest rated network news program beats the highest rated Fox program every day. And millions of Americans don't have cable so they have never even seen Fox or certainly can't routinely watch it
If we did become Greece, at least we'd have better food ...
No, Monsanto would still control it all.
When you hear stuff like this you have to remember that the Republicans only want one thing ever: The New Deal completely utterly and permanently dismantled.
The debt ceiling is just another tool in the box to loosen the wheels on social insurance programs until the wheels come off, and they don't care who gets trampled underfoot or swept by the wayside to make that happen, and that includes the global economy the American people or their own base.
It's not a mystery.
All those undeserving "brown" folk will suffer, as they should (or self-deport) and the true Americans will go on as they always have.
I'd blame it on Christianity but, I know upstanding Christians, just know corruption when you see it, it's GOP.
What the hell are you talking about. I think morons like you should self deport. I am brown and was born in the USA. I have probably contributed to this sociaty than you ever will. You are nothing but a bigot. I bet there are more KKK members on entitlements than brown people. They should self deport along with their Nazi and skind head partners.
He was being sarcastic, Emilio.
Lindsay Graham has right there in his own mind and heart an empty intellectual and moral soul!
He has lost his way, and now professes hostage taking as common political policy! I pray for him daily! -Kevo
Whatever happened to not going on EVERY TV show to prove what an empty dick you are?
His favorite movie must be MEAN GIRLS. Because, he certainly acts like a little beotch! Sorry. He really disgusts me.
How proud he must be of himself. Big man in fancy suit, fighting pretend enemies for a god he doesn't believe in to serve people with more money than he'll ever see.
Obama has already stated he will not negotiate with terrorists - foreign or domestic.
The reason that the U.S. will not become Greece is that the U.S. Constitution gives congress the power to: "coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign Coin, . . . " Article I, section 8. When Greece became a part of the European Common Market, it gave up its right to coin/print money. The U.S. can fund its debt if need be by printing more money. No one really wants to do that because it is perceived to be inflationary. Instead the Federal Reserve is issuing treasury bills, in other words creating money by borrowing money.
If we "become Greece," it will be because everyone avoids paying their fair share of taxes. That should be the true lesson of Greece.
Apparently Greece wanted to make tax dodging a new Olympic sport for the London Games but Google, Starbucks, and Amazon threatened to sue for breach of copyright on intellectual property.
From the Onion, July 20, 2011: "Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined."
http://www.theonion.com/articles/congress-continues-debate-over-whether-or-not-nati,20977/
Deja vu all over again.
How do sane citizens and decent government leadership fight this kind of willful wrongheadedness?
How does Obama fight people who want to destroy him and the country with him for no higher purpose than to sit on their personal piles of money claiming to have Saved the Nation?
Ugly doesn't describe this mentality....
This is exactly why we need a more far-ranging version of filibuster reform than the one some Democrats are proposing. Graham will have much less success in holding the American economy hostage if we do away with "holds" by individual Senators and reduce the number of votes needed to invoke closure.
I'd like to see Lindsey Graham talk this nonsense to the Prez' face. "Please proceed, Senator."
Social Security and Medicare are NOT the causes of these problems. If it wasn't for Social Security we'd have to borrow more money from outside the US.
The REPUBLICANS' got us here, and they want to keep the things the same.
Screw Graham.
The math is easy. retirees on average are taking out more than they paid in due to living longer healthier lives. The Baby Boomers are retiring at a rapid pace. Fewer young people are entering the work force. Birth rates are going down. How is it that we are going to sustain this kind of situation? Grandma is not going to be thrown off the cliff through entitlement reform, because it will not affect those in the system or those somewhere in their fifties. Not sure of the exact age. I can retire in a few years and if they told me today that I wouldn't get my retirement for 2-5 more years later than I had planned, I wouldn't care. There are safety nets in place for those that have health issues. Something has to be done to those programs.
This is not how social security works. You pay into the system for those currently on the system and then when you retire those who begin working pay for you. There is no account set up for you when you retire when it comes to social security. It's a collective pot based on certain qualifiers (namely your age and US citizenship) that once met pays based on a combination of other qualifiers (such as your retirement, the cost of living, and any legal restraints put into place).
This is not how retirement works. The rate at which people are retiring hasn't changed. You're confusing the fact that there are more people retiring because there are more people to this particular generation alive than previous generations with the idea of the rate at which people are retiring. The two aren't the same.
This is not how you measure work force by age groups. The percentage of those going into the workforce hasn't suddenly declined. And the number of people being born in and of itself has nothing to do with whether or not the program runs a deficit.
False framing. If the Baby Boomer generation is the generation that is causing strain on the program then that means once the Baby Boomers die out the program will stop being strained. The program itself doesn't have to be fundamentally changed if the problem in question is temporary. That simply means a temporary fix will have to be made to cover the Baby Boomers. Additionally let us be clear here: social security or medicare running a deficit does NOT mean the program will cease to exist. The only way these programs cease to exist is if a. the federal government decides to end the programs (congress votes to end them) or b. the federal government goes bankrupt and can no longer meet it's obligation to pay. That's it. So let us be clear here: there isn't a bankruptcy issue with social security or medicare as individual programs. These programs are simply running deficits where they weren't before. Let's not confuse hyperbole with reality here. A programs existence isn't necessarily dependent on whether or not it runs a deficit.
There are several simplistic fixes that we could do to end the deficit problem:
A. Issue public bonds to private citizens in exchange for a hire interest rate to pay for the program (buy bonds!, sell stocks!)
B. Increase the minimum wage
C. Life the cap on the maximum that has to be contributed to social security and medicare
D. Allocate funds from income tax to social security and medicare
the repugs only know employers have to match the workers contributions
if the employers did not have to pay into the fund there would be no issues
@phil,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you hit on the root cause of all the fuss.
This is terrorism, plain and simple. And if they pull this off, we will forever be held hostage for one polictical reason or another....regardless of which party is in power.
I like Wikipedia's take on the term. Seems to me it applies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism
It is the US policy not to negotiate with terrorists, which should include those in the House & Senate.
Is there a non-profit organization dedicated to the provision of muzzles for every Congressional Republican? Because I would donate to that.
"the president will not negotiate with
those who would deliberately harm Americanshostage takers."FTFU
You guys at the Rachael Maddow show should all read Mike Lofgren's new book. It is short, witty, insightful, hair-raising, and I think adds appropriate context to Lindsey's comments.
You got as much as a rock!
Lindsay purse swinging is not flattering.
He said the raising of taxes on the top 2% would run the government for 11 days. Well if that is so insignificant, then why not let it happen. such a small amount can hardly have a negative economic effect like falling off the fiscal cliff.
His other problem here is how he is looking at attacking 'entitlements'. The reason we cannot afford them isnt because people dont pay in, it is because medical costs have skyrocketed. Extreme profits from pharmaceutical companies and unnecesssary procedures to run up bills to increase stock in healthcare corporations.
Why not go after them to bring the costs down instead of the benefits down. Go after the greed and the fraud. why not? because he is in pharmaceuticals back pocket.
Lindsey Graham is an ass. He does not even know what the debt ceiling is about. That, or he is intentionally trying to mislead the public. He is so full of partisan bull that he cannot possibly have a clear thought in his pea brain. if the republicans would stop playing politics with our country and our economy, we would be far from the cliff, far from a bad economy. We are, DESPITE the republicans, on our way to a better economy and that alone will kill the republicans for generations to come. They will be proven to be the obstructionist liars they are.