Anne Savage/Eclectablog
Outside the Capitol in Lansing, Michigan.
With Republicans in the state legislature set to finish hustling through legislation that takes away union rights, this is not a usual day in Michigan. The Detroit News reports that three school districts opted to close because so many teachers are going to the Capitol in Lansing for protests.
The state's largest district, Detroit Public Schools, will remain open, but Detroit Federation of Teachers President Keith Johnson urged members to attend the protest.
"We're encouraging our members to stand in solidarity as a show of anger, defiance and frustration for this whole Legislature," he said. "It's only designed to break unions and has nothing to do with workers."
The scene at the Capitol seems to be crazy, loud and, so far, peaceful. The Michigan legislature is set to go into session at 10 A.M. Once the two chambers finish voting on the so-called Right to Work bill, Governor Snyder has said he will sign it.
Thanks to Anne Savage of Eclectablog for the picture. They're liveblogging the events today. (On the show last night: A Michigan Republican registers his objection to what his party's doing.)
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what would have if everyone there planed to get arrested peacefully that would just about over whelm them big time. one line gets handcuffed moved away only to have anther line step up in its place.
hell no we will not go BACKWARDS only FORWARD!
Can Never Give In!!! Will Never Give Up!!!!
I thought "right to choose" is the base of all Democrats believe.
Not when it comes to someone getting a job in Michigan.....huh?
Here is a clue its not a choice when the boss dictates that he can pay you a dollar a day for your labor and you don't have a say on how much you are willing to do the work required or get anything for putting life and health at risk for doing the work. Just because the GOP calls the @!$%# sandwich a ham sandwich doesn't change the @!$%# into ham.
It is not a choice when the union says you have to be a member and pay dues, is it?
I'm sorry, is there a link to read the law itself and what's in it? Thanks in advance.
Jess33? Robdon? Either of you have a link?
Scabby the Rat! Lots of Scabbies the Rats! Cool!
NeedMoreCoffee, here (I think) are the two bills followed by the article that gave me the links:
HOUSE bill 4003:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28b3t5gf45gqgloi45enhmlcud%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectname=2011-HB-4003
SENATE bill 116:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ag1qwv45hunkauvidqczqt55))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2011-SB-0116
Article:
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/12/michigan_right_to_work_approva.html#incart_river
Senate link doesn't want to "paste" correctly, but the article has correct links.
Thank you, Robdon.
Okay, unions can still continue to operate. They can still continue to bargain collectively. They just can't force you to be a member. Wow. Those evil Republicans!
Via this legislation, if you choose not to pay dues, you still are getting the benefits of union representation. I.e., it formalizes freeloading. It is no different than saying that you don't have to pay taxes (of any sort), and yet you still get all the benefits of our collective governance. Without collective governance, we would all be at the mercy of corporate whims. This legislation is the same. Right to work? No, right to exploit.
...it formalizes freeloading...
But the other formalizes forced participation.
And, I've been hearing "everyone has a right to work, but no one has a right to work for less." Why don't I? If I can provide a similar service to a company and do it for less, why can't I make that offer? Don't I also have a right to work for more? If I can provide a better service for more money, shouldn't I have the right to make that offer as well?
Go right ahead. Just follow the laws. Businesses are always looking for dupes to pay less. In fact, domestic auto makers had that policy for quite some time, hence the foreign auto sales boom. Quality matters, alot. Republicans onle seem to see the bottom line, and the bottom is where they are headed with this attempt to bully labor.
The workers at the automobile manufacturers in MS, AL, and other right to work states would disagree with your assessment, Lebowsky.
The race to the bottom has worked out well for the working class huh Rob ?
Having worked in the financial industry, in NYC, for over 40 years, I can say unions never took hold. I can also say wages and benefits were very fair and competitive. Each year, a survey was conducted among many financial companies to determine salaries being paid for comparable jobs. Salaries were adjusted both by survey results and economic factors such as inflation. No abuse of workers - there are plenty of laws to prevent that - and fair and competitive pay. And, NY is not a RTW state.
One of the rats should say Rat Fu.. Oh, never mind..
For libs there should be a right to murder a fetus but not a right to work without joining a union. Go figure!
Right because to tea bagged republicans biological goo inside a womans uterus has more rights then a person who has been born. Why don't you republicans admit it, your all for fetus rights but dead against human rights.
you cannot murder a fetus as a fetus in the stages during which most abortions are performed is not sentient. Abortions performed after the first three months are typically done to protect the life of the mother or because the fetus is so deformed/has a severe medical condition that it will not survive.
As to not joining unions, you want people to reap the benefits of unions (which people who work in unionized sectors do) without contributing to them? I thought conservatives were against freeloading.
whom,
you are correct. at any stage of a pregnancy, repubs care more about that then they do an existing child.
jes33,
abortion can be a life-saving measure for the mother. abortion is often the lesser of two "evils", abortion vs. the abuse of a helpless child.
NO person should be required to belong to a union. UnAmerican and anti freedom. If unions offered so much they would not be afraid of right to work. If unions were so great and wonderful, everyone would be racing to join. The fact is, their rolls are dwindling. Their coffers must be dwindling and leaders are afraid of losing compensation and power. It is all about the collection of dues and protecting workers no matter how ineffective and sorry they are. I was appalled to see that Chrysler workers who were smoking dope and drinking alcohol on their lunch break and returned to work under the influence endangering the safety of the people they worked with and the quality of the cars they built, were given their jobs back due to union influence and arbitration. Employers should not be held hostage to employ inferior workers because of union interference. They should have been able to fire their a**** with no questions asked!
i hear you, but union members are not the only ones who smoke dope and drink alcohol on their lunch breaks.
life is unfair, ask Trayvon Martin.
First off, it's 'roles' not 'rolls'. I'm not trying to be condescending, I just thought you should know that you made a spelling error which could undermine your argument.
Look, it's very hard for a person to make a difference. But a group of people can if they are organized and willing to work together. Ever since unions started decreasing, we've seen employer salaries skyrocket while worker salaries drop, especially among the service industries. Sometimes, yes, unions can take dumb actions and be put in place where they're not really needed (such as baseball or football) but on the whole unions have done great good in this country. Five day work weeks, no child labor, safe working conditions, decent wages, all these things owners and management weren't willing to provide until their workers reminded them that they depend on the workers. If everyone joins the union and pays a portion to that union, then the union has the ability to look out for the workers who need it so they don't get trampled.
Dontmindme- I sincerely appreciate your comments. You don't seem to be as hateful and closed minded as some on this site that refuse to even give thought to an alternative idea or to common sense. Those that are So adamant about choice in some areas, are so adamantly opposed to choice in others. Doesn't make sense to me. Individual choice ought to apply in more than a few areas. People still have the right to join a union. That is not being taken away.
Right closed minded just ignore that republicans posting on this site are still repeating the same nonsense that their grand parents were repeating during the robber baron era as well as the gilded age of the 1920's when unions were just beginning. Really you can't get more closed minded then a conservative, they refuse to evolve or learn from their failures.
I think whomitmay nailed it here 2x! Thanks for the laugh: "biological goo".
Notice how the gop can not really effectively counter what was presented , and you know they have nothing when they have to start talking about OTHER PEOPLES medical reproductive issues , as if it is any their business ?
You have a choice to not work at a union shop , if paying the dues is offensive , go else where , isn't choice wonderful indeed
give thought to an alternative idea
" alternative ideas " ? like workers having no choice on safe working conditions ? OR Going home to take care of a sick child ? Or being paid a living wage , so after working 40 hours a week , your still qualified to receive food stamps ? Alternative ideas like that? lol
The gop act like corporations having all the power over employees is THE NEW ALTERNATIVE OPTION in the free world , as if WORKERS RIGHTS are not the new alternative to go side by side with humans rights in the history of planet earth ? But then again , the gop are not fond of human rights either
jes33,
those that are so adamantly AGAINST REGULATIONS in some areas (wall street, business), want to regulate a woman's uterus, want to regulate rights for gays, and etc. etc. etc.
are we on the same page here?
Please be accurate. It is a "Right to Mooch" or a "Right to Exploit" law. In no way is it remotely accurate to term this sort of legislation "right to work" legislation.
Perhaps some workers are satisfied with their compensation and work conditions and prefer not to constantly be begging for more and choose not to be constantly negotiating and striking and paying to support candidates and policies that they don't agree with. And employers ought to have the right to employ such people.
Jess33, Union's support Candidates based on Labor Policies. I have to ask, Do you recieve a Pension for your 32 years of Teaching? BTW, Regardless of Political Views, I do applaud your Commitment to that Profession. I really try to be Civil, But one issue, The Drinking and Drug issue takes Place Everywhere, Not just Union's that really is a little Ridiculous?? Same goes for RTW, If it was so good Why is it that Mass protest's to enact RTW are NOT taking place, But are only being enacted or supported by Republican's and Big Buisness, Like Diane Hendrick's of ABC Supply? Why is that?
"The Drinking and Drug issue takes Place Everywhere, Not just Union's that really is a little Ridiculous??"
so very true, you might fine it a bigger problem in non-union jobs.
Hey Pilot, It is Beyond Ridiculous to imply or think that Drinking and Drug's happen in Union's and nowhere else.
Perhaps some workers are satisfied with their compensation
Then they can CHOOSE to give their raise back to their employer lmao
LOL
really just how fast would they cry, if only the Union ones got the raise they fought for and the non union people didn't cause of their freeloading and tag along.
bet the company would like that idea as well, saves money.
to bad company's are always look at the Bottom Line,, as in the direction they take the company and well lots of congress can be fit in as well.
lets try looking at the Top of the Line and moving in the direction.
I hope everyone understands why the GOP is trying to break the Unions. It has to do with the Newly named “Saudi America”. In the years to come America is set to become the worlds largest exporter of oil, Due to the Oil reserves and new oil extraction techniques. Keeping the workers unable to bargain as a group will increase profits as well as the amount of control the Oil companies have over its workers i.e working conditions and wages . In their mind if you keep workers down wages go up.
That makes sence in this context.
Rachel:
It should be abundantly clear by now that the "right to work" bill being pushed by Michigan Republicans is a politically motivated attack on labor unions for their support for President Obama and the Democrats in the just-concluded election.
What the Republicans fail to realize is that by attacking labor unions, they are attacking the middle class, for it was organized labor that made the existence of the middle class possible. Without labor unions, there IS no middle class -- especially in Michigan.
Therefore, the bill should be challenged in federal court once it becomes law, on the grounds that it is a politically-motivated "bill of attainder" against the unions that violates Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and Article I, Section 10 of the Michigan Constitution.
A "bill of attainder" is, by definition, an act of a legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without privilege of a judicial trial.
The move by the lame-duck Republican-dominated Michigan Legislature would have gone nowhere had Republican Governor Rick Snyder, a moderate, chosen to veto the measure. Instead, he said that he would sign it -- only after President Obama handily defeated Republicn Mitt Romney in Romney's native state, where his father, George, was a popular governor and one-time presidential candidate himself.
Because of this, this measure is clearly an unconstitutional "bill of attainder" that will not stand up in court.
It seems that "Right to Work" does not attack the union group, but protects the individual's freedom. Protecting individual rights is or should be the AMerican way.
You conservatives don't know nothing about the American way anymore then you know how to form a thought, you only repeat myth legends and other nonsense meant to stir the emotions of the whiny conservatives which leads them into cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
individual's freedom
individual'S ??? lmao
Like democratic representation? Like your GOV REP and voters being able to read a bill before it is passed? Like your gov reps being able to get input on a bill before it is voted on ? How do you define individualS freedom? When we are discussing the PEOPLES representative governing body , the machine that makes freedom , democracy and america work so well?
Can an individual'(s ) run a $1 billion company ? Or defeat the Germans?
You have a CHOICE to move where there is NO peoples government
Rachel, this is what I think what happened in relation to the Michigan Congress and Senate doing this in secret. We all remember the 2008 Inauguration when Gingrich, Ryan and associates met to make the President an one term President. I am saying the same thing happen only the characters were the Koch Brothers and associates. They met with some members of the Republican House and Senate, discussed the Union busting bill and how it will be passed and nothing the Democrats or the Union can do about it. They were probably told to keep quiet until a later date which was a few days ago. Of course money exchanged hands.
On another note, is there a petition to sign to get more help for the Veterans? I would be interested to know.
Close but no cigar, Gladys. Michigan republicans began meeting with the Koch brothers organizations and joined ALEC in 2007. They've been waiting for a republican governor since then, and now they've found their stooge. There's videotape available from the 2007 stages of this atrocity.
Yes, of course money changed hands. A great deal of it went to support Gov. Snyder's 2010 run for gov.
Hopefully, 2014 will bring different results when many of these folks are up for re-election.
Michigan's workers should form their own union apart from work. It can be a sort of 'civil union' where people organize to fight the states takeover of their communities, school boards and all the things that effect their civil rights. It would give them a base of operation to take back their state and some funds to fight the corporate take over of their state. It can be in addition to any other union membership and can invite students and nonworking parents if there are any left. Talk about grass-roots organizing!!!
The group already exits. It's called the Michigan Democratic Party.
This is all about the American Legislative Exchange Councils Agenda. They have been working behind the scenes for thirty years and yes this is union busting. If Snyder and the republican controlled legislature thinks this is such a good thing why ram it through a lame duck session? Also why put an appropriation on it so the people cannot have a say? This is dictatorship at it's finest at work here in Michigan and it has been going on since people were conned into electing the "Nerd". They are also ramming through women's rights bills along with newly written EFM legislation and the citizens do not even have the chance to become informed on it. You should not be able to get something for nothing and this is what this bill does.
And don't forget the broad reach education bills also being rammed through that would allow for infinite numbers of for-profit charter schools throughout the state. BTW, the bills re. women's rights are anti-women's right to abortion, contraception, etc. The typical ALEC agenda, the RTW bill is almost word for word from ALEC.
thanks Nightwriter for the corrections. Yes they are anti-womens bills and what they are proposing with the schools is unbelievable. From everything I have read it is pretty much the same as an EFM takeover only worse but then again the citizens don't know about it. Our public schools in Michigan will be no more. The ALEC agenda once again.
This legislation is clearly unconstitutional on its face and must be challenged in court once it becomes law.
That the Republican-controlled Michigan Legislature and Republican Governor Rick Snyder are making this hard push for the bill AFTER President Obama carried Michigan by a big margin and Democrats made gains in both the legislature and the Michigan congressional delegation should make it clear to everyone that this is a politically-motivated attack on the state's labor unions in retaliation for the unions' support for the president and the Democrats.
As such, the "right-to-work" measure constitutes a "bill of attainder" against the unions -- an act of a legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without privilege of a judicial trial. Bills of attainder are explicitly ILLEGAL under both Article I Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and Article I Section 10 of the Michigan Constitution.
This is every bit as illegal and unconstitutional as the Wisconsin law pushed by Governor Scott Walker and his fellow Republicans that stripped public-sector unions of their collective bargaining rights (which was subsequently struck down as an illegal "bill of attainder" by a Wisconsin court).
The time has come to drive the Republicans out of office permanently. The GOP has become a party of plutocrats who care only for the super-rich, not only in Washington, D.C., but increasingly at the state and local level as well. Plutocracy -- rule by the super-rich minority over the middle-class and working-class majority -- is a mortal enemy of democracy that must be stopped.
Democrats made gains in both the legislature and the Michigan congressional delegation
WOW , did not know that , thanx , as we already know , these people have ZERO common sense or governing abilities
This is right out of the American Legislative Exchange Council's playbook. If this is such a wonderful thing and that the citizens of Michigan want this, why are they ramming it through a lame @!$%# session and putting an appropriation on it so that the people cannot have a say? This kind of thing has been going on in Michigan since people were conned into voting for the "Nerd". This is not about the people and jobs (at least not living wage jobs) it is about big business wanting more. They not only are ramming this bill through they are also ramming bills through taking away women's rights and rewriting the new EFM laws and voting on them. This is dictatorship at its finest.
Sorry did not think the first comment posted so I rewrote it. Just learning how all this works. Any of you reading my comments take the time to read the article ALEC exposed on the nation. It is very eye-opening.
Tomorrow's headline?!?: ALEC BUYS MICHIGAN
The Michigan Right To Work bill is discriminatory. If the Governor and the Republican legislature believes in this so strongly, why doesn't it apply to ALL unions in Michigan? Why are police and fire unions exempted from this legislation? Don't police and fire deserve the right to choose? It appears they are just doing it for pure political gain and not for the benefit of the citizens and workers of the State of Michigan.
This could backfire. The auto workers are very united, no pun intended. National attention combined with a tiny participation by the auto workers could make this toxic next election cycle. Plus there is a way to take this to a popular vote according to many sources this morning.
Mr Benen noted yesterday that a Mich. GOP rep came right out and said they did not include the cops and firefighters , because they tend to vote republican, they are not even bright enough to know that such comments can help sink the legislation in court
And I know many FF that vote dem , so that was a joke imo , they did it because voters are more likely to be offended if cops and FF were included , as if teachers and city workers etc some how do not count as productive citizens ?
they learn their lessons from WI,,, remember the FF were left out and only Police unions was exempt. and even they didnt really press the issues.
It can be clearly be said that the Republican Ruling Class (the upper .1%) discriminate over the remainder of We the People. With such a firm basis as them habitually shifting funds into organizations they support, and firing those in families from other political parties, then Federal racketeering, extortion, likely tax evasion, and conspiracy charges can be applied to certain members of the Republican Party.
Since these legislators such as the Michigan Republican Governor has sworn their Constitutional oaths, such a racketeering-type conspiracy could be viewed as attempting to overthrow teh Constitution as well as the Federal Government (and the vast majority of We the People). An the advantage of racketeering charges is that it allows such blatent discrimination to be applied to individuals (like Michigan's Governor) instead of large groups, companies, or organizations, and the FBI, President, DOJ, and Governor of each State can be compelled to follow their oath, or resign immedaitely and face Federal charges if they are attempting to ciolate teh Constitution for political discriminatory purposes. In fact, We thePeople could bring a lawsuit against Michigan's Governor in some remote state where he did damage (such as Washington State).
In addition, the Michigan Governor could be sent to Federal Prison for lying in his job Federal job application (political campaign) that he was not going to support right to work legislation.
While it would be great if politicians could be sent to jail for lying, the Supreme Court has judged that lying is protected under the 1st Ammendment. See their ruling on the Stolen Valor Act.
To whom it may- Just an analogy. You libs are all about "Choice", but not when it comes to belonging to a union? If choice is so important, it should be important in every facet of a person's life. To me abortion is a serious matter, much more so than paying dues to an organization that may not have the same moral, ethical and political values that I have. I wouldn't want my money used to support things I don't believe in, so I wouldn't belong to a union. Every person should have that choice. Our nation has deemed it to be a woman's right to have an abortion, and it should deem it a person's right not to belong to a union.
"Choice" is great! I choose to not have my taxes pay for war. I choose to have none of my taxes go to a red state that opts out of Medicade. It's fun to play this game!
It's rather funny how our little conservative just can't grasp that by seeking employment at a unionized business is a choice no one is forcing him to apply at any unionized business. There are plenty of non unionized businesses out there, oh yeah that is right typical conservative wants something for nothing, he wants high wages and benefits that unionized businesses provide he just doesn't want to pay for it.
That is the most hypercritical, ignorant statement of the day.
Matter of fact, I'm going to print and blow your statement up, put it on a bill board down here Western Tennessee. Stated from a Liberal Cow.
Says the ignorant hypocrite....
He has trouble understanding words, he lacks word comprehension skills. He also can't grasp that no one is "forced" to join a union, a myth created by the anti union crowd. Ever notice that all of the rights nonsense are based from Hollywood moviesof the 40's, 50's and 60's, yet they hate Hollywood and ignore that they elected 2 very bad actors who failed at running government while not seeing the hypocrisy in themselves by their own actions.
Here is hypocrisy............I hate unions, I rant and rave about how bad unions are yet I refuse to quit my union job because I enjoy all the wages and benefits being a union member provides me, I just don't like having to pay for it because I deserve it but no one else does because they don't work as hard as I work, which I know is a lie because the union protects me from working any harder then the next guy but if I admit any of this it hurts my wittle feelings.
Suzette-I agree! Others do it too and an employer ought to have the right to terminate them if they are on the job under the influence. Employers should not be forced to employ drunk or doped up people under any circumstances.
Jes33, Then Why do you make it out to be just a Union issue?
I did say it is everywhere, but if you don't deal with unions, you can get rid of that employee more easily.
The gop can document all the union drunks on the job , and never getting fired , we just have to wait for lush the pill popper limbaugh to take his next of many bathroom breaks
The police union should have a slowdown and refuse to stop the crowds at the capital. If this goes through the police and teachers unions are not far behind. Someone really needs to get the cops in on this. How will the governor feel when there's no one to protect him from the angry crowds. If he wants to pull this crap let him hire private security.
I was struck, listening to last night's show, by the quote from Eric Hoffer in the Frank Rich segment. He and Rachel were discussing the Tea Party movement, but this could be applied just as well to unions.
I have to say that every person I talk to about whether unions should be protected or not (as opposed to the politicians, who are shamelessly jamming this down Michiganders' throats) has a true, legitimate gripe with unions. Something that person has actually viewed or experienced first-hand. And I think that this is where the two sides need to begin to resolve their differences. Because I do suspect that unions, once carrying the banner of a great and just cause, have devolved into businesses, and in some glaring cases, rackets. No?
As I said in a previous post, time to clean out the closet and toss out the outdated stuff that's going in the wrong direction and keep what's good about union organization.
It looks like the teacher's union has jumped into the fray to get another free day off. So, is it really all about the children ? I never believed that for a minute. It has always been about keeping what they got and seeing if they could get more. That is the truth about all unions. The only reason they vote with the libs is because they can use them to their advantage.
Amen inspector.
Woot woot! Right wing troll alert!!!
The vote prevented that state from full fledged mafia style extortion. I disagree with the old urban myth that the mob runs the unions.Its the unions that run the mob!! Forcing someone to join or pay union dues is wrong period.No wonder union membership has been declining for decades.Also many hard working union men disagree with progressives on social issues but they are forced to launder money for the democratic party thru dues.
Any large group or organization can become corrupted in time if not held in check.Who's watching the watchers here?
blowhard post translated: "I am a right wing troll who is sad robme lost."
51% to 47%
lets see if this puts it in a way even someone whose head seems to be stuck in that 4th point of contact, and his new navel window seems to be fogged up.
51% only two Presidents to gain 51% twice is our President Obama,, and another good one and maybe the last Republican IKE.
or also got 4 million more votes then your party's loser.
Now let me get this right, Michigan Republicans cramming through a state anti-union law is justified, by their thinking, because current law (established by Mitt Romney's father) is "forcing" people who gain the benefits of a union to pay for those benefits?
But forcing U.S. taxpayers to bail out private, corporate U.S. banks to the tune of trillions of dollars is somehow A-OK? Maybe we should have a "right to let big banks go bankrupt when they screw up" law for the rest of us. How many of these "right to work" (sic) Republicans would be in favor of that law attempting to enforce real capitalism?
Hardly a one, I guarantee.
I'm an independant so my vote probably doesn't count but I'm all for that. If a business, no matter how large has been run poorly as in the case of GM, We should let it fail rather than throw taxpayer money away.