Today's edition of quick hits:
* The Connecticut state police held a briefing late this afternoon, with updated information on the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.
* Why are mass shootings becoming more common? There are competing explanations.
* Mother Jones published a worthwhile guide to mass shootings in America.
* Timing: "Hours after the terrible shooting in a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school, the Michigan House Republicans demanded that Governor Rick Snyder (R) sign a bill that would make it easier for people to receive a gun permit and open up 'gun free zones,' including schools."
* Middle East: " Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta signed an official deployment order on Friday to send 400 American military personnel and two Patriot air defense batteries to Turkey as its tensions intensify with neighboring Syria, where government forces have increasingly resorted to aerial attacks, including the use of ballistic missiles, to fight a spreading insurgency."
* A report three years in the making: "The Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday voted to approve its long-awaited report on the use of 'enhanced interrogation techniques' under former President George W. Bush."
* A big shake-up in Israeli politics: "Facing indictment for breach of trust and fraud, Israel's foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, resigned his post Friday afternoon amid mounting political pressure, upending the campaign landscape five weeks before national elections."
* Cleaner air: "The Environmental Protection Agency tightened the nation's soot standards by 20 percent Friday, a move that will force communities across the country to improve air quality by the end of the decade while making it harder for some industries to expand operations without strict pollution controls."
* The one thing GOP lawmakers want to spend more taxpayer money on: "House Republicans have quietly raised the value of a contract with a private law firm that is handling the chamber's Supreme Court defense of a 1996 federal law that defines marriage as the union between a man and a woman."
* Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) says raising the Medicare eligibility age is "off the table" in the fiscal talks.
Anything to add? Consider this an open thread.
Leave a Comment:
If all of the NRA members, had a child in New Town, they just might feel the pain, their ideas has put among the rest of this country. BUT a-last, they have no feelings, just their guns to snuggel with, play with, and take to schools so as to kill other peoples children.
it must be tough to babble incoherently about a clearly CRIMINAL act committed by a CRIMINAL. lawful gun owners are not the problem.
Scott, you need to take a look at that chart on Mother Jones. And where in the coverage did they say that guy was a criminal?
Whether this was a criminal act or not is completely irrelevant. This is what happened I guy got a gun and shot up a school and killed 20 children. Now What was his state of mind? Where did he get the gun? Who sold it to him and when? was any kind of background check done? was there a waiting period?
This is about common sense safety and rule of law with powerful killing tool that are available in our society
Unfortunately, those on the right have no interest in common sense safety, they just want to get as many guns as they can so they can use them against people they don't like.
Or those politicians on the Right work for the 3 or 4 families whose gun factories make them a million bucks a day. The politician sells out for the $5,000 campaign donation and screams bloody murder that those 500 factory jobs are essential to keep the economy from collapseing.
According to the news reports, the mom of the killer bought the guns and was responsible for them being available to her son. she is also one of his victims.
I do believe in gun control. Also Iam a psychologist who used to work in Mental Health 30 years ago, before Ronald Reagan SLASHED all mental health budgets. Dangerous people were identified BEFORE they killed people and were followed by professionals and were treated. When RONALD REAGAN, wanted smaller government and slashed the MENTAL HEALTH BUDGETS, closed all the Mental health Hospitals and most of the community mental health budgets, gun violence increased, prisons became overcrowded with mental patients and senseless crime has murdered our loved ones! We need to bring back our MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT PROFESSIONALS!
Sincerely, DIANE ZIMBEROFF MFCC
Mother Jones, now THERE'S a braintrust......ugh....
He became a criminal when he stepped on the school grounds with a loaded firearm (illegal in most states). He became a criminal when he forced his way into the school past the access controls. He became a CRIMINAL when he killed his first victim.
I would like to point out that I cannot recall any sportsman or woman ever being involved with one of these mass murders. This tells me that they are responsible gun owners who pass their responsibility to their children most diligently and should not enter into our discussion here. On the contrary, I welcome their comments here in order to craft a solution that prevents these tragedies. Certain members of the NRA still insist however that we citizens are wasting our time on trying to control these tools of carnage. These people would rather have us intrude on everyone's lives in order to weed out those likely to act out like this than interfere with their guns. This was what Stalin tried to do and history tells us how that worked out. We as a society must come up with a level of gun control we can ALL LITERALLY LIVE WITH and the events in Newton, CT clearly show that that level cannot be NONE.
Durbin has put Medicare and Social Security on the table, off the table, on the table, off the table. He supports Simpson Bowles.
I worry more about him as an individual than I do as a mouthpiece for the administration.
--------------
Mother Jones and guns.
The vast majority of the guns were obtained legally. The majority were semi-automatic revolvers and assault weapons.
Appears that's a starting point. Making it harder for people to get the wrong types of guns.
We seeing these sort of events in gun control states just as we're seeing them in pro gun states. Maybe this isn't a gun issue at all.
California has very strict gun laws. Texas has very lax gun laws. Both are large states with large populations. They both have almost the same number of firearm homicides.
The number 1 state in firearm homicides is Louisiana, a pro gun state. The number 2 state is Maryland, a gun control state.
If these four states have entirely different gun laws, and as a result get very similar results, then maybe this isn't a gun issue at all.
Europe has almost no firearm homicides. It's nearly impossible to get a gun in Europe. Canada has almost no firearm homicides either. Canada has pretty lax gun laws. Maybe this isn't a gun issue at all.
You know what Maryland and Louisiana has in common other than a high number of firearm homicides? Both have very high levels of poverty.
Dr. Richard Wilkinson: How inequality harms societies.
http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html
And still the Republicans, cannot come to a compromise, on the same issues, year in and year out!
I know my city is being drenched in soot. The government actually doing something about something implies it being a very serious health risk. We have a lot of trains and an interstate highway going thru here, and a fairly large power plant, cement plant, and steel mill.. A day or two after painting a window sill, it will be covered again with a greasy soot.
"The Atlantic" has an article titled,
"A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths"
It describes gun regulation in that country. It is an informative read, if nothing else.
I was just thinking of that when Ed Schultz was listing the countries with strict gun controls. The farmers in Japan are having a hard time controlling the wild boar that are killing their livestock. Guess they'll have to get bow and arrows!
Haha, so funny! I lived in Japan for twenty years and for me, every time I came back here to visit my family, I must say I never felt safe.
You might go and read the article to see that guns are not banned, just regulated....so those farmers probably do not need a bow and arrow or a kendo stick or black belts in karate or judo to take care of the boar!
consider myself a purple person. Since the lovelies deided to go with red states and blue states defining us, I guess for me, purple is the answer. Thank Hog they didnt go withmauve and lemon!!!! I belong to the group that I most aggree with, this does not mean I drink kool aid, nor do i run flitzing around the room in a tutu. I take the parts of a parties stance that I aggree with. I also take ideas from the other side that I aggree with, Then come out with something reasonable that I wish to politically go for.
Whetever I say on here, comes from my knowledge base, as well as what comes from you is the same. I
There is a lot of middle ground to be reaped, but the nutjobs on the left think it is fun pulling their end of the rope while the right wings nuts pull from the other ende. They keep pulling and pulling, with all of us in the middle. So say a prayer, or dont say a prayer. say SOMETHING tonight before you sleep , even a fleeting thought, about the tradgedy that has struck out nation. THANK YOU ALL for some really great debate, slams, minor and major disagreements, name calling could be left out, it only shows anger. This is a time for us to pull together, let the investgation go on, and stay out of they way.This community, these families, this town, can go through their grieveing process on their own. we do not need to know what kind of socks were worn, what was written on the blackboard. can we give them a break until THEY can figure themselves out
I cannot process this. It is a horrible, horrible day. This song speaks to me. Perhaps it will speak to others.
http://youtu.be/dcnd55tLCv8
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dcnd55tLCv8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Surely this horrific tragedy will finally be what it takes to get this country to get serious about commonsense gun legislation reform and enact it immediately. America has been held hostage by the NRA and the pro gun lobby for far too long. Now small children are being killed by weapons that have no business being in the hands of ordinary civilians. Our president and this Congress must do something to make sure a tragedy like this never happens again. The NRA is in charge of our government and kindergartners are dead in a hail of bullets because of it. - pp
Wrong targets for this to have any effect, now if instead of 5 year olds, one of these whack-jobs would target...let's see...maybe...60 year olds who are always on T.V. with an (R) next to their names......I bet we'd see some action lickety-split, suddenly it would be "time to talk about this, not time for prayer" and of course suddenly "the democrats have not taken this issue at all seriously, and have caused this problem with their liberal agenda"...........WANNA BET?
I am considering launching a Federal Constitutional action, brought by "We the People", in which I am holding the heads and corporate officers of the NRA, the heads and corporate officers of the gun manufacturers, (as well as the gun), and the shooter responsible for a Conspiracy (and racketeering associated) with manslaughter of these children. We often hear that guns do not kill people, people kill people. In actuality, today's shooter could not have been effective killing the people without the guns, and as such, if the guns and the shooter conspired to kill these children, then both the gun and the shooter are conspiring to commit manslaughter, and the shooter and the gun should both spend the rest of their lives in the Federal Prison.
Two other conspirators for the manslaughter act are the NRA, and likely the RNC. These two groups have acted as conspirators in facilitating making it very easy for far too many with far too questionable backgrounds to get guns. Since the Bush Administration, it appears easier for many sickies to get guns than to get a haircut or perm, and this does not help any one. We endlessly hear from the NRA and RNC about the "right to bear arms", but the second Amendment to the Constitution applies only to support a well regulated militia. In other words, in the Revolutionary War, George Washington would have had this right, those at Bunker Hill and Mount Vernon would have had that right, Paul Revere would have had that right, but even Ben Franklin and the armchair patriots who hung around the pubs too much (as well as the British Soldiers) would not have had that right to bear arms, they would have instead have had a privilege to bear arms (otherwise too many Tories would have shot America's Patriotic heroes in the back). Today's shooter also had the privilege to bear arms just like all other non-regulated militia members, which can clearly be circumvented by legitimate rights from others. Even those in the militias supporting the U.S. Government have to have their rights to bear arms well regulated.
The 20 schoolchildren who were murdered had a right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, and the NRA could easily be considered a Conspirator (if not enabler) in this terrorism murder act. The corporate officers and lawyers of the NRA, (arguably the corporate officers and lawyers of the RNC in pushing for extensive gun privilege laws), the gun, the corporate officers of the gun manufacturer, and the shooter all conspired with their privilege to bear arms, which falls far short from the Constitutional rights of these children whose lives their conspiracy and racketeering charges snuffed out.
This conspiracy is an act of terrorism. There is no public figure that can disagree with this Statement. Those from the President of the United States and the Governor of each of the 50 States down all have to agree. Some Southern Governors (such as Rick Perry of Texas), have argued for their rights to secede from the Union. However, the Civil War has shown clearly that Governors have no right to secede, neither do We the People. Instead, such statements are an attempt to Overthrow the Constitution, an attempt to overthrow We the People, an attempt to Overthrow the Federal Government, and in addition a cowardly attempt to commit treason for their own personal gain, power, and profit.
As soon as we hold the these gun/secession traitors and terrorists responsible for their actions starting with they NRA with their privilege to bear arms, the safer and happier the remainder of We the People who actually do have our Constitutional Right for Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness will be. With the RNC in bed with the tea party to allow the NRA to stoke up the crazies, we understand that during the American Revolution, the RNC would have been on the side of the British and during the Civil War, the RNC and the Tea Partiers would have been on the side of the Confederacy. That is why the Tea Party arguments have always lost, they are arguing corporate lobby and financial interests against the Constitutional Rights of We the People involving Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. The NRA has been on the wrong side of history relative to the gun issue.
So....any time there is a car accident, you will hold the car manufacturer liable? How about you throw in the maufacturer of the car parts...ridiculous... You are totally laughable.
car accident death= misuse of car
gunshot death= proper use of gun
your fallacy, and the others like it are trite repugnant, and show the limited cranial capacity of your genetic code.
They both end up with the same result. A person is no more dead from a gun death than they are dead from a car crash....
guns are specifically made to kill people.
I had no idea that cars were made to kill people.
I better get some bullets for my car.....
You also have to take a written and a driving test to be able to drive a car.
You don't have to be trained, tested, and given a licence to be able to own a gun....
My goodness... your false equivalences are as @!$%#ed up as you are, peepee65...
Glenn from Seattle (and others) Don't waste your time arguing with pascoguy65. The ludicrous notion that he and others espouse wouldn't hold muster in a court of sane opinion. Living barely 15 minutes from the site of the Clackamas Town Center shooting here in Portland, I can reasonably say that I feel people here, with a sense of sanity and sadness are ready to join the overarching need to dissolve any notion that the 'NRA' (etc.) has value to the American experience of freedom. After experiencing the 'guns don't kill people' argument from a close family member, (and noting the ridiculously absurd attempted corollary from pasco regarding 'outlawing vehicles') I can see their argument no longer holds any sway with reality based thinking, much less solving this problem. I am additionally ashamed at those who would continue to hold such a myopic position in the 21st century. Guns DO kill people!
Keep thinking that, 49. Until the next murder at the hands of a gun be yours or someone in your family.
Your dumb ass may be saying something totally different then.
Maybe his mom didn't hug him enough......
Keep thinking that, 49. Until the next murder at the hands of a gun be yours or someone in your family.
Donna, you are an icredible MORON to even infer something like that. How disgusting can you get???? Go climb back in the sewer with the rest of your family.....
peepee65: you and the dude whose IQ is 49.9 are full of @!$%#.
And I can't get nearly as disgusting as you two are.
So go back to the squalid trailer park with the rest of your redneck gun totin' inbred family and STFU.
Thank God for the uncontrolled & uncountable numbers of PWMD's (Personal Weapons of Mass Destruction) floating around in American society.
Granted they could kill w/ their fists, knives, forks, spoons, tooth picks, BUT only a PWMD gives them the ability & opportunity to dispense with large numbers of fellow citizens in an instant & w/o the ability to stop them in time.
I take great comfort in the fact that the NRA supports banning even criminal checks before amassing a PWMD arsenal - and by logic no checks should be imposed upon those mentally impaired (which actually describes most criminals) of us because they are that way by god's will.
The original intent of the Constitution was to allow arms for a militia & the original intent of/for 'arms' was a SINGLE SHOT, MUSKET LOADED RIFLE (& occasional similar pistol if U had the $).
SCOTUS has voided the Constitution's actual original intent by creating & imposing one of their own invention that defies original intent and is one no founding father could have conceived of or would have ever supported.
Thank God for the THREE STOOGES of the Supreme Court - Tony, Clarence & John
Pass a law immediately, every gun owner in this country need to pass a psychological test every year. And remove all automatic weapons from the hands of common people.
I heard on Marketplace on NPR this afternoon that there are 58,000 gun shops in the US. It was also stated that is more gun shops than all the Starbucks worldwide! In googling "58000 gun shops" I discovered an APP on iTunes called "GUN SHOP FINDER". I left "feedback" at the Apple website. I'm all for free enterprise but do we really need to make it even easier to get a gun? Really?
I heard on NPR today that there are 58000 gun shop in the US. That is more gun shops than all the Starbucks worldwide! When I googled "58,000 gun shops" , I discovered that there is an APP in iTunes called "GUN SHOP FINDER". I submitted my disdain for this app to iTunes "feedback". I'm all for free enterprise but do we really need to make it easier to buy a gun. Its already easier to by a gun than it is to vote. IT IS all related. "Gun Shop Finder", shame on you and shame on Apple too.
To honor those families in Newton -- and for future of all kids -- GUN CONTROL MUST BE TODAY'S TOPIC (ironically the press secretary's statement was made in the JAMES BRADY conference room!). Two thoughts: BAN military assault guns from general sales to the public -- Tuscon, Aurora, Newton murderers had a common gun - a Glock. Secondly, enact federal law that limits ALL gun sales to those 25 years and older (all recent shooters were young men in their 20s - the time when severe mental illness most commonly is manifested). Listen to moms (wasn't this past election about the women's vote?) like me -- and put gun control on the agenda -- and remember those who were killed in Newton by prayers, by thoughts -- AND BY ACTION.
Brian Fischer has once again illustrated his lack a basic decency. Follow the link to his comment regarding this tragedy...
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/god-didnt-save-kids-because-theres-no
I hate to say this but as long as gun lobbyists are filling the pockets of the politicians in Washington DC Nothing is ever going to change let's just admit it now.
Since most of the proposal advanced effectively involve banning firearms, severely restricting legal firearm ownership and would not prevent attacks like this in the future. Is it surprising that the NRA and its members are fighting these proposals with all their power.
Elections do have consequences, and the elections of 2010 are having reverberating consequences. Much of what we have seen between 2010 and now is the result of inattention, lack of involvement, and failure to VOTE by a lot of progressives in the 2010 election. The right was energized, they turned out, and they took control in many states. Then they set up the voting precincts to benefit themselves (much the same way Democrats had done in the past - to be fair). What is happening in Michigan and Ohio and elsewhere seems to be a direct result of that. Yes, elections have consequences, and the people of Michigan voted these people into office. They only have themselves to blame.
Unions also have to get better PR people. All I ever hear about unions is how they support slackers and inefficiency. My best friend moved here from Michigan, her father was a lifelong union member, and after working at GM for several years, she hates unions. What is up with that? I am seriously asking that question - I am pro-union, though I am white-collar and never worked in union situations. Would love some thoughts on this.
I have seen way to many Obama is going to take all the guns scares in the gun right media. Obama's election the first time caused a gun buying panic. Give the gun right a real gun control effort I fear violent resistance to new gun control measures anything from a few killings of gun control people by extremists to armed "militia's" in red states firing on Federal ATF agents trying to enforce the law to actual real succession and a new civil war as the right feels it is losing control. The gun right really does fear a take over by the left though gun control.
And they Fear this because of the NRA, That Fear increases sales, The fear in Colo. after the last Incident sales rose 44%. I heard this today, It is one thing supporting the 2nd Amendment, and it is another being a Fool.
Rachel
The United States has had troops stationed in Turkey for decades. Additionally since Turkey is a member of NATO, should it be attacked by Syria then it could request from the rest of its NATO allies, including the United States.
I wonder what Mike Huckabee will have to say about this. When the NFL football player shot and killed his girlfriend and then himself Huckabee's comment was that if the girlfriend had a gun, she'd be alive. In other words, he was saying we don't need fewer guns, but more guns. If we extend that comment to this situation, perhaps Mike Huckabee thinks all the kindergarten children who were brutally murdered would still be alive if they all had guns.
I watched your rant on gun control last night. The Fort Hood shooting is a good example of gun control The soldiers were forbidden from having their weapons during the processing, bu the nut, Hassin, had a gun and had free reign to shoot all of them.
I find it odd that you cite the football player at Kansas City shooting his baby mother and killing himself but failed to mention the Dallas Cowboy player that killed his team mate by being a drunk driver and will essentially cost the state a lot of money to put him in prison for years not to mention his trial costs.
There are a lot more people killed each and every day by alcoholic impaired drivers than were killed yesterday by one gunman. Yes, a lot of those are children. Do you advocate prohibiting alcoholic beverages or motor vehicles. I know neither then maybe we should put on each and every fire arm, "shoot responsibily".
Drunk drivers kill more each year than we have lost in all the wars in the middle east over the past twenty years.
Focus on useful items and not on your personal rants that are stupid.
You aren't supporting your argument by bringing up another known issue, as if it pertains relevance in a conversation about gun control.
It's quite apparent that you are not heeding your own advice, that of 'Focus on useful items and not on your personal rants that are stupid.' While I agree that drunk driving and alcohol consumption are problems in their own right, they do not belong in a conversation about the necessity of gun control in a country obsessed with guns. If you want to talk about drunk driving and alcohol consumption, there are plenty of outlets to do so where you will find others willing to talk about it, without the 'need' of telling someone else their concern on the relevant topic is stupid.
I don't even need to read the earlier posts about the massacre in CT. After hearing from the pro gunners about how if more people had guns we'd be a safer nation. Following that argument should we be arming our kids? Oh, yeah, I forgot about hearing lately of three kids killed by other kids who were playing with their parent's guns and another story about a guy who accidentally shot and killed his child as he was getting into his pick-up after leaving a gun store and another about grandfather who shot his grand daughter because she came in late and he thought she was an intruder. Maybe if those kids had guns their deaths have been avoided.
I've also read and heard talking heads and government officials saying "now is NOT the time to talk about gun control". I agree. Now is the time for the media to stop showing mass shooting scenes from hundreds of feet above, interviewing police and medical personnel, talking to survivors and psychologists. Now is the time to show all twenty of the dead children's school pictures, photos of them playing at home with their family, show them having fun in their home videos and school activities.
Then show the weapon used in the shooting that others in this country that "don't kill people".
Next show the crime scene images from the classrooms and school office with the small dead bodies laying in pools of blood, little heads blown apart, pieces of brain, hair and skin splattered in walls, desks, books and school projects.
THEN, we should begin to talk about reasonable gun control.,. before we forget once again and before the pro-gunners scare us from talking.
I would like to know, how many shooting deaths ,per year, are there in The Netherlands ?
My country of birth.
I beleive people have the right to hunt, but WHY, does anyone, other then military or any form of law enforcement need guns with clips, that are people killers ?
I really do not understand the logic in that !
So, again I ask why ???
I hope that Rachael Maddow and her research team will look into the potential relationship of psychotrophic drugs to this and other school shootings and senseless acts of violence. Please see the following two videos on this topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SOJzZjK4XHk;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSZ9YTnSkLc&feature=player_embedded