On tonight's show we'll be continuing MSNBC's live coverage of the school shooting in Connecticut. Our guests include: Dave Cullen, author of “Columbine”; Bob Herbert, distinguished senior fellow at Demos, former New York Times columnist; Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, (D) New York.
Ahead on the 12/14 Maddow show
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Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:51 PM EST
— Filed under: guestlist
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Honestly?
Why?
To explain further, or to what?
I'm not saying run the program you originally intended to run, but why put folks on who speculate and provide nothing but an opinionated opinion about what happened?
I'm turning off the TV tonight, we're going to be smothered with this for the next few weeks until the next tragedy, and frankly, I'm done with it. Chris is on right now, and it's going to be this speculative crap by anyone who wants to get on tv for the rest of the night.
You cannot offer anything at all to explain this, except WAGs. You can rail against the NRA and speculate bull@!$%# for all I care, but you will not change the damn world with this broadcast. Get the full story, then come back to us and tell us what happened. I don't want to know right now. I just don't want to know.
I'm sorry.
I'm pissed.
I watch your show and regard you highly, but, please.
Stop.
"Dirty Laundry",,,,
"I just don't want to know?" That is what is wrong here...Everyone pretends it couldn't happen to them. 30 people were killed today...most of them aged 5 to 10 years.
And you want to hide? Why even bother to watch ANY political show. Get back to us with a full story? What more do you want? The police were great. A young man kills his mother and 30 people with two "legal" hand guns. PEOPLE DIED!
I am fully aware of what happened, I am not hiding.
Hover in front of the tv and gobble every minute if you must, if it makes you feel better, but I'm not going to do it. Everything they have to say about this tragedy is pointless right now.
There's a paper in the morning, and people to pray for now.
this is one of those times that you just find yourself uncomfortably numb with grief, anger, sorrow, and no words can describe it and they just somehow seem wasted. I wish I could say they were mercifully rare but they are becoming unaccountably familiar. Cry if you need to, scream if you must pray if it helps. In the end all we can really do tonight is just try to keep going.
Peace on Earth good will toward men
Hey, knob, why don't you go organize a prayer vigil! Those are always so useful for people who want to feel righteous for no good reason, and who want to pretend that they have done something when they haven't.
I don't feel self righteous at all, I'm more like what Dragoon21b has described.
I'm not the kind of person who goes to, or organises prayer vigils, I certainly haven't done a @!$%#ing thing to place myself on a pedestal above any other person to feel self righteous about anything.
I expressed my opinion about tonight's show, and the content of what will be on tv for a while, I'm sorry you don't like it. You could have expressed your view in a more adult manner, but, hey.....we're all kind of pissed off at the gods and the world right now, aren't we?
Peace be with you.
Lol! Sanctimonious git! I'm not even remotely impressed by your Personal Virtue.
Thank you.
One of the things that is especially disturbing by observers is the way the media tries to cover the story. They have no right and should know better than to speak to young children after this occurred. It is very unwise to talk to anyone when they are in shock, reporters seem to be very insensitive to what this community is going through. But, oh, yeah they got the best interview around, competing for best news coverage at a time like this is frightening to watch how insensitive people are. When reporters do this it makes people watching at home, cringe and yell at the reporter. Counselors and parents should be the only ones allowed to talk to these very impressive children. Common sense people, the news story can wait.
Knobson,
I'm with you. I turned off the TV last night because I too just couldn't watch any more talking heads "theorize". We are all desperate for more information as to why this happened, but this constant mastication of what little is known was driving me nuts!
Well, you sensitive souls who wouldn't watch the show last night missed a worthwhile one. Your loss. Of course, the show was about more than the Connecticut school shootings. You wouldn't have liked Piers Morgan's show, either. We only went over to that show during commercial breaks on TRMS, but some of what was going on was interesting to note. Morgan has his faults, but at least he is very vocally fed up with the American Gun Cult. The US needs many more who are willing to publicly express such sentiments and take action on them.
Entropy,
Since I didn't watch those shows, tell me what was different that they said this time that they haven't said every other time.
Did they set up a national conference? What's the date? Whose invited? Did they propose targeting those senators who are "owned" by the gun control lobby?
Did they come up with any practical actions that we can do now?
Otherwise it is just "talk" and I've heard that SOOOOO many times before - and it gets us NOWHERE! As Shakespeare and Faulker said: "Full of the sound and the fury, signifying nothing!"
No, but they parted the Red Sea. I will not waste my time trying to satisfy your totally unreasonable demands and expectations. Your de facto support of Knobson's thinly disguised pro-NRA agenda is telling. Why don't you quit watching television altogether?
Oh, my Entropy,
More of that "If you are not with us, you are agin us" thinking?
The NRA does only one thing right - it has great gun safety training - and all of my children (including my girls) have attended their hunter safety training.
Other than that, NRA is a total waste! I can remember when I and a number of other LEO's gave up our NRA membership (and access to some great training and other benefits) because of some inane statement by Wayne LaPierre.
Because I believe in SOME gun ownership and good safety training for gun owners does not make me pro-NRA.
Pro NRA? That's what you got from my post?
I am not a member of the NRA, nor do I ever want to be. The NRA is nothing more than a bunch of conspiracy theorists who trust nothing but their own insanity, and then make great attempts to convice the rest of us to blindly follow along. I do support the right to bear arms but, within @!$%#ing reason, and the NRA is beyond reason or reasoning with.
Because I objected to the what we all know is going to be the media meme for the next few days/weeks.. you think I'm pro NRA.
Wow.
The mind boggles.
PS the TV is back on, and what I heard was that it's better to get all the facts first before you play guessing games about peoples lives. Some of the stuff they talked about last night turned out to be not true, today.
You boys have your pathetic little pity party, I have better things to do.
My deepest condolences to these families,,
Now, can we get corporate interests OUT of our government???
Enough! We can't talk about gun control as it is "too soon" or "Let the families mourn." I have worked over 40 years in trauma medicine. You cannot believe what a bullet does to the human body. It sends a shock wave through the body breaking bones, destroying arteries, tissue, organs. It's not just a clean shot through the body. A lot of times you can't recognize someone as their face has been blasted away. Tissue vaporizes.
Right now we need to repeal the second amendment!
No dickering around with background checks, state to state differences in buying guns and ammunition...NO MORE GUNS IN THE HANDS OF CITIZENS!
When the second amendment was written in the late 18th century they had single shot muskets..NOT Glocks or Sig Sauers with 15 bullet magazines...not AR-15s with magazines of 100 rounds of .223 ammo. We don't need websites such as "BulkAmmo.com" where the Aurora shooter bought 6,000 rounds of ammunition LEGALLY through the mail.
For those who say "Well let's get rid of cars then or knives! In 2012, TEN states had MORE people killed by guns than by car collisions! Cars have become safer..guns still only do one thing very well..kill people. No other use. The five states that have the most lenient gun laws have the highest per capita homicides.
We are the only country with private citizen gun ownership in its constitution! The NRA OWNS our legislators. Our politicians don't even dare even talk about guns. The policy of "Guns, God, and Gays" made its way into our culture. If Barack Obama does one thing in his second term it is to hand down HARD controls. 1) Buy one gun/month maximum. 2) 5 day wait and criminal check 3) A letter from a local psychiatrist showing that the buyer is not suicidal or homicidal. 4) Mandatory gun classes on learning to care for, keep a gun safe and shoot safely. (Something the NRA USED to do before becoming this fringe right lobbying group.) 5) No more gun shows that allow people to sell guns out of the trunks of their cars.
The second amendment talks about state militias--that's our National Guard. And after drills the guard return their guns to a locked armory. Hunters could keep their guns in a locked armory between hunting seasons.
The time is NOW to get a handle on gun control...The lives of 30 MORE of our neighbors should not be lost for nothing. Gun ownership should no longer be a "right." I have the right to live along with my family and friends' lives.
"I have the right to live along with my family and friends' lives."
But the Gun Cult doesn't care anything at all about your rights. All they care about is what they want, and what they want is very ugly.
Gun control? We don’t need no stinkin’ gun control...
Can’t wait to hear Wayne LaRear and his plea about how people are wrongfully berating and belittling the righteous gun owners of America.
Poor put-upon innocents that they are. The public pummeling them because they went out and bought protection for their homes and loved ones... handguns (some with 30 bullet clips that can take out a couple of dozen muggers at a time ), or a rifle (maybe an assault rifle that can cut a deer in half in three or four seconds)...
Nothing like having weapons readily available for any reason or any instance where you might be threatened... like say, passing an ugly school building, how you hate ugly buildings ... or seeing children in their little navy school uniforms... and you hate navy. Have to be able to protect yourself at times like that.
But not everyone is quite so addled and confused... carrying around a big clip-heavy gun.
He could always go to the NRA store and purchase their “concealed carry” hoody sweatshirt with it’s built-in holster, which would hide that gun from everyone. Then he’d be free to do whatever he felt like. Thanks to the Amendment...
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=11&p=CO+635&ct=e
Which are those 5 states? I don't believe Vermont or Alaska for that matter have abnormally high homicide rates Neither requires even a permit to carry I believe.
Unless you are intending to use all 44 minutes of your air time tonight to press for a reform of gun control laws, you are wasting your efforts...
MORE speculation and hand-wringing is not going to bring back these dead children.
Have someone on TRMS tonight with the GUTS to take on the NRA. I'd definitely watch that.
"Have someone on TRMS tonight with the GUTS to take on the NRA. I'd definitely watch that."
I know she won't do it but:
Please Rachel call me. I'd take on the NRA and Wayne LaPierre faster than you can say whatever it is that people say
Wayne LaPierre needs to have his picture on TV.
I was very reluctant to say something about these baby being massacre my this one human-being but it is time that we as a country of great Americans stop in take another look at our Constitution, in start putting the responsibility on these tragedy where they lay in that is with the Congress of these United States of America for they can fix these out dated gun control laws when ever they want to for this is what we send them to do in the Congress is to make new laws and amend old laws for which the second amendment need to be revise under the part where the congress shall in should suggest how many arms one owner shall have in what kind on arms one can own it should be, this will at least start the progress in trying to stop these kind of massacre from happening in the future, for when we as an country start turning are back on on children's we become the dry bones in the valley.
It is a horrible day today. I have been crying …….. I called my daughter to describe to her what this mass murder scene most likely looked like at Sandy Hook Elementary School……..we need to see this as it was ….. the slaughter that it was ….. and I cried some more. These children had no idea what was coming. They froze in their tracks…….did not move……huddling…….self contained in their classrooms. The shooter stared at them …… raised his hand gun and began shattering and ripping their tiny bodies with round after round of 9mm bullets……he re-loaded. The children were frozen in place …. they were in a nightmare……screaming……all alone…….massive amounts of blood splattering everywhere. The floors were flooding with fresh blood. Mom and Dad were somewhere else thinking all was well.
What are we going to do about this? NOT TOMORROW …. TODAY. PLEASE TALK ABOUT THIS WITH EVERYBODY YOU KNOW THEN CALL YOUR POLITICIAN.
When someone asked me what we should do ….. I say that we should do what works ….. whatever that may be to get a grip onto a solution to stop this senseless killing. If that means telling the gun lobbyists to take their money elsewhere … we do that so good politicians can do their job. If that means that the NRA does what it was originally formed to do …… way back when …… then THEY do that. If it means we pass some sensible legislation with enforceable teeth ….. we do that ….. no excuses …. no matter what. How do eat THAT elephant ….. I know that you know the answer……one bite at a time. WE CAN HAVE GUNS LAWS THAT MAKE SENSE. LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN.
By the way, our governments (State and Fed) have websites. Let's all take a transparent look at exactly how much lobbyist money is given day by day posted everyday by specific names not of just the entities not the front organizations but of specific persons names with pictures responsible for each entity giving the money. Let's include the names and pictures of the persons receiving the money everyday at State and Federal legislative bodies. These are PUBLIC OFFICES.
Idea: You can sell bullets to people in the US - ONLY if you have admitting privileges to hospitals in the state you're selling in.
Petition
the gun debate is moot. americans love guns. we romanticize and fetishize them as tools and symbols of our strength and freedom, of our manifest destiny and the indomitable american spirit that built a nation.
no number of dead children will change that because we won't change. when president obama and the rest of us hug our children a little tighter it's with the thought that thank god it's not my kid.
the parents of colorado, wisconsin, oregon and connecticut have our thoughts and prayers, but never our guns.
Does that mean that the sale of guns are tied to a mental health care doctor examination (both State and Federally non-partician physician approval) at each specific purchase prior to taking ownership of any and all guns? Does that mean that immediate family members are cross-checked for current gun ownership and transaction history? Does that mean that it will take much longer to walk away with a gun from a registered store? Does that mean no more swap meet sales and/or personal sales without this proper examination plus documentation? Does this mean it will cost more to own a gun? I AM OK WITH ALL OF THAT HAPPENING BECAUSE I WILL VOTE FOR WHAT SAVE LIVES. I WILL DO WHATEVER WORKS. What else can we discuss?
discuss segment one of friday night's show.
Gun control and this story actually should NOT be linked. In fact, I believe the daily average number of Americans killed by gun violence is (coincidentally) about 28 per day. So any day is either a good day or a bad day to talk about gun control. Many people are killed by their own guns, which happened today - that is a more relevant topic. Why did a school teacher with an unbalanced son own two automatic handguns?
Thank God for the uncontrolled & uncountable numbers of PWMD's (Personal Weapons of Mass Destruction) floating around in American society.
Granted they could kill w/ their fists, knives, forks, spoons, tooth picks, BUT only a PWMD gives them the ability & opportunity to dispense with large numbers of fellow citizens in an instant & w/o the ability to stop them in time.
I take great comfort in the fact that the NRA supports banning even criminal checks before amassing a PWMD arsenal - and by logic no checks should be imposed upon those mentally impaired (which actually describes most criminals) of us because they are that way by god's will.
The original intent of the Constitution was to allow arms for a militia & the original intent of/for 'arms' was a SINGLE SHOT, MUSKET LOADED RIFLE (& occasional similar pistol if U had the $).
SCOTUS has voided the Constitution's actual original intent by creating & imposing one of their own invention that defies original intent and is one no founding father could have conceived of or would have ever supported.
Thank God for the THREE STOOGES of the Supreme Court - Tony, Clarence & John.
the original intent of the second amendment was, IMHO, to provide a form of today's national guard. a force that can be activated by the government to protect us from FOREIGN invaders not from our own government.
protection from tyrants within the government was a side benefit but that was handled quite well, until recently, by a drafted army who would not turn their guns on fellow citizens if ordered.
the efficacy of today's weapons is not really the issue, rather it is the paranoia of those who believe "da gubmnt 'sout t git me." that paranoia is stoked every day by clever sellers of hate and guns.
those purveyors of hate, paranoia and guns do not think that they will ever be the victims of that paranoia. they feel that they will somehow be insulated from it by their gated communities and guards. they think that their money will buy them immunity, or a place to run, from their followers when they finally go over the edge.
this insanity and the fueling of this insanity must be stopped. our only effective weapon is our votes. our last chance may be 2014.
Just checking the first ammendment protects your right to post on the internet right or am I only protected if I'm using newsprint or yelling in the town square?
The Supreme court RECENTLY interpreted the right to own a gun a MODERN gun as a constitutional right.
One armed security guard would have prevented or greatly reduced this tragedy legislating a 10 round magazine or an "assault" rifle (which frankly would be a lousy choice for anything except range shooting anyway) would not have
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
because we still need a well regulated militia, right?
Serving the under served in a Community Health Cliinic, I have watched the last remnants of the mental health safety net dissolve away. We as citizens have decided that monitoring those with mental health issues is too expensive. Certainly those who have mental health issues and substance abuse problems are even more in need of neglect as they are really hopeless. Still, 1/3 of my state's prisoners are there because of mental health issues and another 1/3 of them are there for drug related offences. Not even including the stress and costs to the courts and the property loss, that is a very large amount of $ spent every year. Sure we need to do background checks on the 40% of people who by guns without a check, but we need to begin the outreach to those who are suffering with mental heayh issues and have a distorted view of reality, In the end, as the NRA says, It is people who shoot (children ) not guns by themselves, Time to act.
We need to enforce the laws that are already on the books, outlaw the selling of guns and bullets on the internet and at gun shows. We need to have frank discussions about how our country is failing the mentally ill and their families. Rachel made some good points on her show this evening.
I am worried that the Connecticut school shooting is going to be used by liberals to limit our 2nd Amendment rights! I think NRA Washington Lobbying funds would be best used to allow children to carry concealed weapons. If just one of those first-graders had a pistol in their pocket, they may have stopped that shooter!
too soon, stupid.
your remark would have been deemed too soon on FARK.
I think the problem is mental health, rather than guns. We need to watch for and report people who are having mental health problems, before they hurt someone, with any kind of weapon. The characteristic of these killers is that they have mental health problems, before they have weapons.
Maybe Congress, led by John McCain, will finally do something about gun laws. If McCain would fight this fight as heartily as he is fighting the stupid Benghazi incident, maybe he can do some good for his country.
this happens every day in schools in the Middle East and no one cares - are those kids less deserving than ours?
I am sure someone cares, but we can't change laws in the Middle East. We can change laws here.
we can, however, quit a senseless war based on a republican president hallucination and stop bombing them.
Set a date and time to have a conversation about gun policy in the United States.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX
WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
Set a date and time to have a conversation about gun policy in the United States.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX
I am worried that the Connecticut school shooting is going to be used by liberals to limit our 2nd Amendment rights! I think NRA Lobbying funds should be used to allow children to carry concealed weapons. If just one of those first-graders had a
pistol in their pocket with armor piercing shells - they may have stopped that shooter!
I don't think this is about guns. This is about MENTAL HEALTH CARE.
what are you saying exactly? if you were born with a mental health disease and cant work, you're supposed to die or kill because this society is too callous to care?
get a republican life!
oh wait...
hey if someone else can pay for this stupid war you wanted, taking care of our citizen's mental health should be VERY CHEAP.
Hmmmm....49.4.... must be this douchebag's IQ.....
riiiiiight. because the idiot who started this war was not G.W. Bush. My president has done more wonderful things for this country in 4 years than yours in 2 mandates. And my president before yours, left the country with the largest surplus in HISTORY.
Now is the time to have not just a discussion of controlling guns, long overdue, but more importantly, universal health care and affordable/accessible mental health care in particular.
Check out the Bath school disaster, or google school bombings in 30's, for perspectives on killings . or albert fish, if your stomach can stand it.