Here is the Monday cover of the London tabloid, The Sun, whose demand for tighter gun control laws was unambiguous. It calls the Newtown shooting "America's Dunblane," a reference to the 1996 shooting in which a gunman entered an elementary school in Scotland armed with four handguns, and then shot and killed sixteen children and one adult before committing suicide.
Such a message would be unsurprising, except for the fact that The Sun's owner is Rupert Murdoch, whose personal gun control sentiments are directly at odds with the Fox News empire, which he also owns. New York Magazine has a fascinating look at News Corp.'s internal tensions created by this tragedy.
But aside from News Corp.'s soon-to-be-separate print division, there were few signals that Murdoch's call for gun control was having much effect. The Fox & Friends Twitter account sent out a message at 7:43 a.m. highlighting one nonlegislative method for preventing future massacres without a firearm crackdown: “Gov Mike huckabee joins us LIVE at 7:52am EST ... do we need to get prayer back in our schools?”
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I am so sick of " do we need to get prayer back in our schools?” What are we going to pray, that God would please help our politicians to do there job and protect the citizens of this country? If every student in that school on Friday had said a prayer, would the shooter have changed his mind? Which God are we going to have our schools teach? Religion belongs in families and in communities not in schools. To me this is an answer of someone who doesn't want to face the reality that this country needs to address our gun policies.
Nicely said coffeetalk
Nicely said coffeetalk. This is absolutely the answer of someone who doesn't want to face the reality.
And, even if you got "prayer back in our schools", as you and PatP11111 implied, Mr. Huckabee wants only the religion he subscribes to, to be in schools.
Faux and Friends - I love the stench of moron stupidity in the morning. Do those three droolers have a single-digit positive-number IQ between them combined?
Prayer...Kevlar for Klassrooms...just send money.
Can we talk about dangerous stupidity and bigotry for a minute, here, folks?
http://voice4america.com/articles/2012/12/18/westboro-baptist-church-planning-on-protesting-newtown-funerals.html#axzz2FR4bnXdt
My God. Just when you think it can't get worse.
Coffeetalk, #1
I say we all pray for safe schools and good gun safety laws. Muslims, Christians, Jews, whatever. Pray for some sanity, as well.
As a whatever, I have to say that prayer - not to an external 'God' but as a sincere effort of gentle introspection - does have a positive effect on one's mental clarity and peace of mind, over time. At an individual level that can only be beneficial.
Why, with all the fire power out there, hasn't someone blown away this Westboro @!$%#? Don't kill the innocents when there are so many more deserving jerks out there.
Sorry, I've have heard nothing but this depressing story for 5 days now. I don't know about you but I need a break from it. How many more ways can the media tell me how horrible this thing is. Can we try moving on now. I'm so depressed I don't even want Christmas anymore. It's like we are stuck in the first stage of grief.
Jane,
We had our outside lights on for a while, but after Friday, I haven't had the heart to turn them on. It is really depressing.
For anyone who believes that prayer works for them, I say go for it .... in your own space and time. To require others to participate or even to remain silent while others participate is wrong.
For those who believe that these disasters are the result of God's wrath ..... you are irrational. I wish to exercise my freedom from your religion.
If he get prayer back in our schools what would Mr Huckabee say when when a Muslim shows up with a prayer rug and wants to up the ante to five prayers a day?
His name is Schmuckabee, not Huckabee.
The Newtown shooting is our Dunblane, but we won't attack the problem as they did in Scotland. After Dunblane, ZERO guns, zero kids dead from guns.
The UK is very strict about guns.
I forgot, above, when asking people to pray for sanity and that congress acts on this. Atheists, feel free to pray, as well, to a God you don't believe in. It can't hurt. We need all the help we can get to persuade these T-Party types to give in and cooperate.
India LeCarre, how about you help me pee in this baptismal font?
it's no different than asking a non-believer to pray.
your assumption of a lack of disgust, dismay and affront to your request is just as wrong. you may not like my non-belief and truly believe that i'm misguided or even evil but i only ask for the same deference that i give your calls for other believers to pray.
... do we need to get prayer back in our schools?”
I doubt the maniacs that perpetuate these acts would allow the students the time to pray before they shot them. Otherwise, what good would prayer do? And what of church shootings? Did it help they were in a house of God or does Huckablow think that because children don't have religion shoved down their throat at school that they are heathens? Or worse, dems?
According to testimony, Doug Klebold didn't at Columbine. He asked if his victim believed in God, then pulled the trigger.
Huckabee believes in an all-knowing God who is intimately involved in the lives of every human being, or at least every Christian believer. So Huckabee should explain why God was not protecting those children without any specific requests in the form of school prayer. Why would God punish those children for the actions of adults who keep prayer out of school?
The kind of vindictive, mean, angry God Huckabee believes in should not be prayed to in schools or any where else. I guess Huckabee thinks prayer insurance to an mean spirited and petulant God will stop violence. Seriously!!!!! The man is nuts.
So's the god he worships if the Old Testament is true.
newsblog, Speaking of mean, vindictive gods, check out the link I put on #1.5.
OMG
OMG is right! Poor God. People create the kind of God that is a reflection of how they feel themselves. If they believe in this Jehovah kind of god then they need to look to themselves for the reason why. Do they want control, power, do they take joy in suffering and punishment? Who knows.
For Huckabee and his ilk that god comes from their own twisted psyches. It's just too bad they torture everyone else with it.
"...... do we need to get prayer back in our schools?”
As if Huckabilly and the religuluous reich know anything about prayer or G-d! They only know the "Prosperity Gospel" and I've never read that in any "Holy book" I've come across!
Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!
No, pass the Jesus rifles. Issue them to all of our satanic public schools. That will learn those "problem kids" good- put some fear of the lord into them.
Indeed. Are we seeing exactly how much power and influence the man has when he steps off the Republican party line and tries to help the masses?
Murdoch is praising gun control there because it sells advertising space, there. He praises guns here because it sells advertising space, here.
Huckabee is owned by Murdoch, Adelson, Trump, the Kochs, etc. If he moved to England, he'd be anti-gun. There are several words for people willing to do anything for money, one of them is televangelist - 'Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show?'
We western Europeans had state-dictated prayer in schools and other public institutions from 303 A.D. to the founding of our republic. The Founders of our republic forbade the establishment of a state religion because of over 1000 years of negative history resulting from such policies.
If mandatory prayer in schools would improve our civil society, why did it not prevent witch trials, religious wars, lynchings, chattel slavery, and various inquisitions when it was prevalent?
Or, to cast a different light on the topic, as an educator I would be expected to officiate during school prayer. Do you really want someone like me telling your kids how to pray?
Remember that the Southern Baptists were founded in 1859 by breaking off from the regular Baptists - who were abolitionists - to defend the institution of slavery as "God's will."
Sorry TC, posted mine before seeing yours. Same thought.
I think we need to get prayer back into our families. I think we need to get love back into our movies and tv shows more so than they are now. Christians are often portrayed as wimpy and judgmental instead of in positive light or at least a neutral light. Loving God is mocked in our American culture so much so than in previous decades. I think marriages need strengthened and I think child birth outside of wedlock is not good for our society and not good for individuals, especially our kids. Prisons are full of too many folks. I think men are not being responsible and I think women are throwing themselves out there with reckless abandone. Love and kindess are being diminished in exchange for strength, toughness and power. I know government can't legislate what I propose. To me the govt isnt the answer to every problem.
And yes, even if families return to a life of faith and love bad things will still happen in life. Evil exists. People remain free to choose what path in life they want to take. Folks, this place on earth sure is a far cry from heaven. No govt can cure or collective ills.
I have to disagree with you, Christians are not portrayed as wimpy, judgmental yes, radical maybe. Christians need to accept the fact that not every person believes the same as them and come to terms with the fact they have the right to believe as they wish but so does every other person. How exactly do you suggest we strenthened marriages? How about building an equal society that allows women to support their families the same as a man, equality is one way of building strong relationships, I think. How about if we as a society stop treating children that are born out of wedlock like they are unworthy citizens, if we all work together to build strong schools and strong communities, with families that have the support they need regardless of whether there are two parents in the household then our country would be such a better place. The government isn't the answer to all our problems but without the guidance of a strong government the people will not take the action required to make changes happen.
Funny (not haha) that you go by the handle Love&Peace, when what you're writing about is theocracy and dictatorship. And therein is the problem! Not everyone believes in the "destructive, retributive, exacting G-d" that today's "Christians" claim they do - and being "good Christians" they want to smite US. If as "Christians" you live the way you want to and allow others to live as they want to with the same equality of rights and privileges then we can have a discussion - but what I hear from them reminds me of Tealiban II and that doesn't square with the democratic republic that we live in, so Houston we have a problem.
I have an idea, how about we stop labeling people period. How about we "treat others as we want to be treated" or "judge people based on the content of their character and not the complexion of their skin color" or maybe we could stop pretending that "some people are better than others and therefore more entitled to whatever it is they want" - I don't know, but let US give it a try. As for what "the government" can do one of the things it can stop doing is putting corporations ahead of WE the PEOPLE! No the government cannot cure all ills, but we are in a time right now where even WE don't agree to do the best for each other and ourselves; our short term "winner take all" system, our individualism at all cost are selfish and are part of the problem! Frankly the very people screaming about our need for G-d behave more like they have no G-d - at least not one that I wish to follow, nor do they behave morally.
No, before you come to clean my house - make sure that your own is immaculate.....
"Evil exists." Not outside the human mind it doesn't. Evil has been used by religions to explain every flaw we see in another person to genocide. Does not explain the right-wing drive for revenge, i.e. executing a murderer instead of forgiving b/c it was caused by an outer force of "evil"? Show me an evil mouse, rock, tree, volcano or hurricane.
Prisons are to full of BLACK people b/c it is now profitable & a tiny bit of prejudging.
Men are not being HELD responsible & women could throw themselves at anything all day long but there has to be someone there to do the catching!!!
Government is the answer for the big problems we come together to solve. What section of the highway you drive to work did your family personally build? Who in your house answered the neighbors call about a stolen car? Which person in your church negotiated the trade deal w/ Japan?
Teaching your kid to pray your prayer, that's your & your churches job, not the governments.
Coffeetalk, you have it backwards. The govt isn't to lead us. Rather, we the people are to lead the govt b/c they work for us.
Zora, I am sorry you had experiences with Christians that were equal to the brutality that comes from the Taliban. The Taliban indeed runs society with an iron fist, intimidation and outright filthy violence. Christians behaving equal to the Taliban would also cause me to distrust Christians. Again, I am sorry to learn you had such experiences. :>(
Dawn, without the people we would have no govt. Not the other way around. Yes, the highways were built on the backs of individual taxpayers and with the sweat and blood of the labor of US Citizens. Same with police officer salaries --- the backs of taxpayers and the labor of US Citizens. As to the govt teaching our kids how to pray -- I agree with you that it is not the govt's job to do so.
Our country, and especially the dems, are starting to exault our federal govt way above what history would seem to encourage. In other words, the Prez's comment that "you didn't build that" seems to have more support than I would have expected. The great thing about our country is that we are all free to agree or disagree with each other, and it's a shame when either side tries to silence the opposing view.
God is mad, they say.
They say we need to stop letting gays get married, shove them all back in the closet, and slam the door.
They say we need to put the 10 Commandments back up in public places.
They say we need to put Christian (only) prayer back in schools.
But did we not have all these things at the time of the Civil War, when countryman killed countryman. What then did man interpret God's secret message to be?
According to Huckabee logic, God was mad at freeing the slaves. But we went ahead and freed them anyway, because it was the right thing to do.
What diety do we worship, that cannot see the value of doing the right thing? God is mad, they say. They are right, mad as a hatter.
I would have us pray to a god of common sense and compassion!
Prayer has always and always will be allowed in school or any other place one wants to pray. You can pray anywhere and anytime you want to. Jesus said when you pray to go into your closet which means its a private thing. No one can stop you. Schools , in my opinion, shouldn't be responsible for teaching children to pray or learn religion, that is and should be the churh and the parents responsibility. I think one problem today is that too many parents have tried to let the school system do their parental duties. Most children's learning will take place outside the classroom.
I wonder why people only choose to follow ten commandments when there were over 900 commandments. Few christians follow the commandments one of them says to remember the sabbath and keep it holy, I know only a few churches that worship on the sabbath. According to some god is omnipotent , omnipresent, and omniscient, if that's so there's no way to keep god out of the school.
Progressives always assign blame to the wrong places, always.Fiscal cliff, well its a spending problem not a people not being taxed enough problem.You seek to ban any and everything that could cause harm.You guys would pass a law banning asteroids from coming within 2 light years of earth, then act shocked when it didn't work.You teach that we are just a higher order of primates and there is no absolute truth or creator.Then act bewildered when people act accordingly.Severely mentally ill people should be locked up period.People who murder and there is no reasonable doubt of it should be executed in public.Its "society's fault for everything is so predictable and ridiculous.Its the default answer from the left for whatever ails ya.The modern day snake oil sold to the masses.
Long live Torquemada, right billhillie?!
No spanish inquisition just common sense which isn't so common newsblog !
Common sense- I wish you would display some! Public executions- SERIOUSLY!!
Generalize much? Most people here would say the debt problem is both a spending and a revenue problem, which is why a balanced approach is the sought after solution. Nobody is proposing only raising taxes.
Let's say you had a decent job, a car loan and utilities to pay. Your company says they have to cut your pay in order to keep you on so you now take in less money (Bush tax cut) but you decide it would be a good time to get a mortgage and buy a house (start 2 wars). You really can't survive on what you earn, so you keep borrowing and borrowing. Should you default on your obligations or try to get a higher paying job? Of course you should cut out non-essential spending, but the left and right have different definitions of that.
Getting back to your other generalization: there is no default answer that it's society's fault. On the other hand, the right always states that such occurrences are "God's Will."
"It's a spending problem" never do get a "conservative" response to spending problems of Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicaid drug bill, bank bailouts--crickets.
"you seek to ban any and everything that could cause you harm." 3 sentences later...... "Severely mentally ill people should be locked up, period." "people who murder....should be executed in public." cuz Jesus rounded up all those mentally ill & executed murderers personally yeah? You are unable to make it thru one sentence without switching sides so "pack your knives and go", or you're voted off or...
Notice how the banning asteroids thing has worked out marvelously?
RumpHole Mur— — — — (fill in the blanks)... is worthless garbage. The king of tabloid "journalism"...
I am usually a little more eloquent in my language, but I have had it with the loons on the RIGHT, guns and all things related to Fox News... Blech.