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At this point 24 hours ago, there was quite a bit of talk about President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner closing in on a fiscal agreement. The broad outline was in place, and the negotiations were limited to haggling over some of the numbers. But as the day progressed, Boehner heard from his angry Republican colleagues, and the momentum stalled.
"Today was a step back," a top Senate Democratic aide told the Huffington Post yesterday afternoon. "There are two schools of thought. Either the wheels are totally coming off or one wheel has come off and can still be put back on. I'm more towards the former."
There are a few important angles to this, but let's start with the emergence of Boehner's "Plan B." Suzy Khimm had a good summary of the proposal, which is destined to fail.
He plans to hold a vote in the House that would let the Bush tax cuts expire for income above $1 million -- and nothing else.
Boehner's proposal is meant to push back against President Obama's new $400,000 threshold for tax cuts: If it passed, it would, at least in theory, take away the White House's leverage on tax cuts that are now set to expire in 13 days.
The Speaker is effectively trying to take the tax fight, which he's been losing, off the table. Plan B includes no spending cuts, no entitlement reforms, no stimulus, no debt-ceiling increases, no effort to address sequestration, and not even the slightest effort to reach a "balanced" deal -- just higher marginal tax rates on income above $1 million.
In an amusing twist, Boehner is trying to convince his caucus that this doesn't count as a tax increase, since it prevents higher taxes on most Americans on Jan. 1. Of course, by that logic, Obama's plan doesn't count as a tax hike, either, and Republicans have invested quite a bit of time and energy arguing the opposite for a long while.
Regardless, Democrats -- both on Capitol Hill and in the White House -- have no use for this Plan B, and suspect its emergence is evidence of Boehner moving away from the negotiations that seemed to be moving forward up until yesterday afternoon.
But Democrats aren't the only ones balking.
Luke Russert said yesterday as many as 30 House Republicans are prepared to oppose Boehner's fallback plan, and National Journal reported that "Republican vote counters" are "unsure" the Speaker's gambit can pass the lower chamber.
... Boehner was running into resistance from some of his own members for his own option. That uncertainty persisted even after a second closed-door meeting between Boehner and rank-and-file members, which was itself a follow-up on an earlier meeting in the day in which the speaker first unveiled his so-called "Plan B." Having to hold two such meetings in one day to explain such a proposal is likely not a good sign for its chances.
However, some members said they would back Boehner's plan. "I'm going to be for it, I kind of feel like I'm a lifeguard and there's millions of Americans that are about to drown in a huge tax increase and I'm going to save as many as I can," said Rep. Steve Stivers, R-Ohio.
But others wondered why -- with little chance the Senate will pass the Boehner alternative and since it comes with no spending cuts attached -- House Republicans should go on record as voting to raise income taxes on any earners.
"Once you cross that line and say it's OK for some people's taxes to go up, I think it's a mistake for the Republican Party, so I think that's what a lot of members are struggling with," said Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio.
This is, after all, a public relations stunt -- a fact Boehner makes no effort to hide. He's looking for leverage and a way to avoid blame, and sees Plan B as something of a life-preserver. But for House Republicans who consider millionaires and billionaires "job creators," and who've spent their careers opposing higher tax rates on anyone for any reason, there's little point to the Speaker's little game that won't become law anyway.
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On January 1, 2013, taxes revert to the Clinton rates. At that point Obama will hold all the cards and real tax reform "negotiations" will start. God I am amazed at just how bone numbingly dumb a lot of the tea partiers really are.
Never in the course of human events has a party seemed so bent on self destruction.
...and taking a nation with it.
Republicans are trying once again to give what they want -- destruction of the safety net -- with a lie to the public.
Republicans know Keynes was right. They just lie about it so as to kill the government. They know during an economic downturn, government should spend to make up for the private sector not doing its part. They know if the the sequester part of the idiotically-named "fiscal cliff" takes place, the economy will suffer. But they will use the newly suffering economy to blame it all on the tax cuts and expect the ignorance and stupidity of the American public to do the rest of the work for them in 2014/16. Then they'll get back to their tax cuts and renew starving the beast to kill the safety net.
Republicans are demanding things even Republican voters don't want. Theya are demanding things that only benefit its donor class. Republicans want to go over that "cliff" they constructed. Obama can not offer any more compromises, lest he'd be offering things that betrayed his campaign, betrayed his voters, and are even to the right of the Republican voters who didn't vote for him. Seriously, Obama can't be proposing things like cuts in Social Security benefits that are to the right of Republican voters. We have to go over the "cliff." And Democrats need to educate the public which they've been neglecting to do for 20+ years about what is going on.
What they're after is what they've been after for the past 80 years: the overthrow of the New Deal.
Republicans need an enema to get rid of Boehner, McConnell, Cantor, Paul............................................................................................................infinity!
Nice - From the party that would deny Plan B to all women across America because it encourages "promiscuity", they concoct this half-assed scheme so they can prance and preen in front of the cameras.
I have to admit some amusement watching the Republicans actually being forced by circumstances to try and come up with viable ideas instead of just bloviating.
It's more amusing to see what many of us knew already- they've got nothing.
So when the Bush rates expire it will be Obama that decided to raise rates, and will have to put forth a plan. All Republicans will have to do is say "no". And then the debt ceiling strikes.
Bring it on.
Poor shooter once again shows he has no grasp on reality. I guess when you ignore just who came up with the whole plan that is creating the cliff it is easy to point fingers at everyone that passes by. Other known as blaming the neighbor because your car isn't as new as the neighbors car.
Well when the Bush rates expire taxes go up for everybody. So what is the republican win there? Kindergarten level "If I can't have it, nobody can"?
Then of course the white house can propose the "Obama rates" where no one with a revenue over 250 000 is even discussed.
I think this attitude is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face"
So when the Bush rates expire it will be Obama that decided to raise rates
You might want to check on the polling (Polling outside the GOP bubble before you assume who the people will blame for this fiasco.
Another low-thought, uneducated and illogical post.
Bring it on.
@Shooter
And then wham bango January comes and they all vote for a new tax cut for the middle class...
they know rates have to go up on the wealthy they are just to big of Cowards to do it themselves.
Ask yourself...what is more important here (and remember we are talking about Congress) Actually doing whats right or just looking good.
Scratching hemorrhoids only makes them worse. You have to ignore them.
Ignore him/her/it who goes by 'sh00ter'.
He/she/it has been an obvious troll here since well before the election.
Every comment made by our sane commenters to him/her/it is a waste of space and of your good intellects - and a waste of time for the rest of us to read.
It's like trying to explain quantum physics to a 3-week old baby Tasmanian Devil. Or to explain anything to a 3-week old Tasmanian Devil.
Nothing you say makes the slightest difference, and the rest of us are far past the juvenile non-sequiturs and specious arguments that he/she/it leaves as scat on our path.
One more plea: just "ignore this author" and move on, I beg you!
--tx
There's one wild card you all are forgetting. More taxes on $250k and above will bring in $80B/yr, all the Clinton rates will bring in $300B or better. The biggest fight will be between the Democrats that want all that money, and Democrats that want tax cuts.
One benefit of ignoring sh00ter is that I have no idea what he/she/it just yelled at me.
Ah, peace is wonderful.
Also, to expand on what helena vargas wrote above, I'd like to point out that the troll in question doesn't even believe the bull@!$%# it shovels. You folks are wasting your time arguing against things it doesn't even believe; it's only throwing that crap out there to stir up trouble. The way to make trolls like it shut up and go away is to ignore it. So click on the exclamation point button at the bottom-right of its posts, choose "ignore this author", and move on.
click on the exclamation point and register "no value" and "inflammatory", then click "ignore this author." If enough do the first two, eventually It will be permanently cut off from being here.
Well, let's break it down - Boehner has several bosses. He is employed as the Speaker by the rabid House Republican caucus, but he may get fired if he makes the wrong decision to bring the Senate Bill up for a vote or continue his insistence on raising taxes on millionaires.
These bosses will fire him for compromise, while the American people, though not in the position to fire him, will condemn him for generations to come if he can't effectively come to a compromising position!
Boehner is in heavy need of some Profile in Courage at this moment in our nation's history, and I just hope he doesn't break out the tears - how pathetic that would be! -Kevo
Boehner wasn't selected for his courage, he was selected for his conformity to party lines.
And his ability to reverse direction on a dime when those lines change.
No, they haven't "spent their careers opposing higher tax rates on anyone for any reason."
They're perfectly happy to go along with the upcoming payroll tax hike, for instance, because that doesn't affect millionaires and billionaires. If they were really against higher tax rates on anyone for any reason, they'd vote to extend the payroll tax cut in a heartbeat, instead of using it as a bargaining chip to be voted for only if Obama gives them enough other goodies to make them happy.
And lately a whole bunch of them have been sounding off about the need for people in the lower half of the income distribution to have "skin in the game," i.e. that they should pay more in income taxes than they do.
The payroll deferral needs to end. We are only short changing our future benefits. It's the same as if individuals cease saving for their future. So no, the end of the payroll deferral is not a tax increase.
Actually, no. The payroll tax reduction is paid for out of general revenues -- per the enabling statute. It would have been a whole lot better if they'd left the payroll tax in place and added an "instant tax rebate" to make the difference, but that's not what they did even though the results are the same.
Who says Plan B isn't an abortifacient?
Doctors and pharmacists who actually know better, that's who.
I think he meant Plan B might be an "abortifacient" for Republicans. If he didn't mean that, then that's what it should mean in this circumstance.
Poor Boener, it's always a lose-lose situation for him. To be fair though, he might be doing a little better if he wasn't so damn lazy. Laziest. Congress. Ever.
I think Obama needs a plan B. Putting SS on the table and throwing us seniors under the bus just to appease republicans on taxes is as bad as what republicans are offering.
When I voted for Obama I thought I was voting for a person who would protect seniors, the middle class and the poor. I guess I was wrong.
Obama is just showing that he's willing to compromise. He won't take the deal. We'll be going over the curb. Because the President wants that debt ceiling deal as well.
Oh boy another concern troll, like the GOP is the great protector of SS just ignore the fight they have put up since SS was signed into law to destroy SS to benefit Wall street.
How in the world does John Boehner keep his position as Speaker?
The most ineffective Congress *ever*, with the worst possible public approval. Even Newt ran this House better... and he was a petulant disaster.
To me, I am concerned that our future tax bills are in the hands of just 2 people -- Prez and Boehner. Somehow I feel terribly uncomfortable with this. Yup, power indeed tends to corrupt those in power.
Y'all seem to forget that republicans retained the majority in the House and were sent back to DC to rein in government spending. It's called checks and balances. Imagine how much taxes, spending and our debt would be if the Dems took back the house and Pelosi and Reid ran congress? What a nightmare!!!
Hank: Oh puh-leeeeeeze! You really think the borrow-and-spend republican tools care at all about spending or deficits? Either you're gullible enough to believe their blatant lies, or you're in on the deception.
Don't worry, the House Republican Caucus will act as a check on Boehner. In particular, they'll reject anything that Obama agrees to.
Hank:
Thank you very much for the daily demonstration that you people are too fooking stupid to be able to think. It would probably help if you had been born with frontal lobes, but if that had happened you wouldn't be able to be a wingnut.
Because these rhetorical, symbolic ploys worked so well in getting Romney elected.
Of course, if the GOP actually did anything to aid the workings of government like bringing in much needed revenues they would be undermining the reason for their existence. So, they always look to the safe failure, Plan B out. Maybe the public is starting to catch on.
If I hear "no new taxes" from one more Republican I'm going to strangle them.
The Republicans are more than willing to SPEND money on foolish things, but they don't want to pay for them.
You'd think they were venture capitalists or something.
Survey says...DING
we have a winner!
They're happy for the 99% to have to pay for them, however, with disappearing government services and reduced benefits.
You're right: they know exactly what they're doing, and it smells like fresh dung. No, good dung isn't that bad. How about fermenting dung?
If I hear "no new taxes" from one more Republican I'm going to strangle them.
The Republicans are more than willing to SPEND money on foolish things, but they don't want to pay for them.
You'd think they were venture capitalists or something.
Wow...
Deja vu...
Must be a glitch in the Matrix...
The Prez is in a great negotiating position -- he will get tax increases on Jan 1st even if Boehner doesn't agree to them. But there is something that is puzzling to me.
During the Prez's run for the presidency, I kept hearing how our country was flourishing economically under the tax rates that existed during Clinton's presidency. Now that on Jan 1st we are set to basically return to the tax rates in effect during the Clinton years, I don't see why Obama is currently negotiating with Boehner. The rates on Jan 1st will be about the same as the Clinton years and so the tax increase will lead us to economic prosperity -- or am I wrong?
The problem is that the economy is under-performing right now because of the busting of the housing bubble five years ago which has not been dealt with sufficiently because of Republican obstruction. So tax cuts going up NOW is not necessarily a good thing. It wouldn't be a bad thing if the government would offer sufficiently stimulus, but with Republicans in the House, that isn't going to happen.
Long story short: the mess was caused by Republicans and Republicans are standing in the way of dealing with the mess they caused.
Really??? Long story short - Republicans caused the mess and Republicans are standing in the way of cleaning it up??? So Dems have no blame??? Did you not know Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Henry Waxman, Henry Cisneros were democrats?
Hank: Of course they were democrats. What of it? The economic disaster came directly from the Bush regime's economic policies, as passed and supported by the republican-controlled Congress after 9/11. Those are, quite simply, the facts.
Hank: mommy wants the computer back, little boy.
Hank . . . . I've posed this challenge to conservatives before, and I'll pose it again to you. Please explain to me how Barney Frank caused all the problems Republicans always seem to want to attribute to him. For the most part, he was nothing more than the ranking Dem of the minority party in the House, which affords him little, if any, power. For many years before that, he was simply a Congressman from Massachusetts. One of 435. Certainly not much authority there.
Once again, explain, please.
MPGUY, no one person or group caused the economic mess. Many contribruted and that includes Barney....you can do a google search to learn about his hand in the matter. But the other "party" that contributed to the mess is greedy Americans ...when banks gave home loans of $205k w no money down to married couples with gross income of $45k, that is greed and that contributed the most damage to the economic collapse. The borrrower was greedy for wanting a bigger home than they could afford and the bank was greedy at making the loan (of course govt encouraged banks to lend starting w Clinton and continued by Bush). Yet, the media has us all believing it was just the Republican party at fault. Unbelievable. No one wants to be responsible for their own mistakes but instead let's pretend the govt can protect us always. Unbelievable.
Plan (B)ullshet.
"The country will be fine Dr. Jones, but you won't!"
The Republicans in the House seem to still be in the mindset of making President Obama a one-term president.
I guess that inside that bubble they still have not accepted that he has already won a second term.
Our President is negotiating and the Republicans . . . well, no, not really . . .
If you call cutting social security benefits and raising the tax on income up to $400,00 negotiating, I call it caving in to the rich and powerful at the expense of seniors, the middle class and the poor.
Plan C: Boehner resign and let someone with less ego resolve the issue.
Which republican in the House would you suggest as fitting that criteria?
I think we're lucky to be dealing with a spineless whiner like Boehner. Taking advantage of him is pretty easy for our side.
Helena Vargas - Thanks for the info! I did not know I could ignor certain posters. :) Shooter is officially ignored by me. :)
I'm hoping they delay a deal until after the 1st of the year. That would only give Obama a stronger hand in negotiating.
Don't just ignore the trolls. Report them as 'no value" and "inflammatory" first. Do it enough and they get "collapsed by the community." Have that happen enough and Newsvine's Nanny will ban them. Then ignore them.
well any good NCO will tell you, that you should always have muti-plans and that you should always start with plan B as plan A will turn to crap on initial contact.