Associated Press
The goal posts may be moving but...
If House Republicans twist enough arms to pass John Boehner's silly "Plan B," both sides realize it's not going anywhere. President Obama has already issued a veto threat, and Senate Democrats don't even intend to bring it to the floor.
And these circumstances leave everyone in an uncomfortable spot: the looming deadline is very close, Christmas is next week, and the parties, nearing a deal on Monday, now appear to be further apart than at any point in weeks. It's so bad, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is flubbing his football metaphors.
The possibility of a ruined holiday and the absence of a deal left hard feelings all around. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell blamed the president and Democrats.
"They've been playing Lucy and the football with the American people for months," said the Kentucky lawmaker. "They've said no to every single proposal that's been offered to avoid this tax hike – including their own. They're running out the clock. Moving the goal posts. Sitting on their hands. They aren't doing anything."
This doesn't work. Lucy pulled away the football so Charlie Brown couldn't kick it; Democrats have done largely the opposite, presenting Republicans with a credible deal. The ball is just sitting there; Dems have no interest in pulling it away. It's GOP lawmakers who are running in the wrong direction.
And yes, it's true the goal posts have been moved, but they're moving closer to the Republican position.
Obama started off demanding $1.6 trillion in new revenue, then he said he'd accept $1.4 trillion, and then he said he'd accept $1.2 trillion. What's more, the president said he expected lower rates on income up to $250,000, and then he expressed a willingness to move to $400,000.
McConnell may not be a football fan, so let me spell this out: when the goal posts move closer to you, that's a good thing. Obama has made it easier for Republicans, not harder.
As for "sitting on their hands," I'm not sure what more Dems can do at this point. Speaker Boehner has walked away from the talks he initiated; he's ignoring a good deal; and he's choosing not to make a counter-offer, trying some pointless gambit instead. What more does McConnell seriously expect Democrats to do while waiting?
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We are gonna go off the "Cliff" bump protuberance whatever you want to call it and then everyone will come back in January and vote for a "Tax Cut" for the middle class
It's just slight of hand and posturing so that no one has to defend "Raising" taxes in the midterms
It's not a football metaphor it's a Matrix metaphor
You must begin by first understanding that there is no spoon...uh Goalpost
The turtle flubs more than just football metaphors. He's an idiot, and very destructive to the country. It is time for him to go.
McConnell refuses to acknowledge taxes will go down for much of the 1%, and will go up for a good portion of the lower and middle classes.
All right, I'm going to ask again. The Democrats have just been offered a bill that keeps tax rates the same with a new bracket for the million dollar rich and no spending cuts.
Why is this so unacceptable that Obama would threaten a veto? it sounds like exactly everything Democrats wanted.
You have been answered and you ignored those answers. I would not encourage anyone to answer again. You will be repeating the question regardless of the answer.
The Republicans' plan B does not extend many of the "loopholes" for the poor and the middle class such as the earned income tax credit; it does not extend unemployment benefits; it does not address the debt ceiling; it wants to change how the cost of living for entitlements is figured which would end up hurting seniors and the disabled. It allows millionaires to keep about $50,000.00 more of their $1,000,000.00, but raises taxes on the middle class. (My information comes from what Debbie Wasserman Shults said in an interview sometime this week. For a more complete and accurate assessment of plan B, contact her.)
Brent is correct. Annie Oakley gets thrilled by creating strawmen, then he/she laughs at people who try to engage him rationally.
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
What?...oh..Sorry waxing nostalgic about strawmen...
My apologies people, I was talking about Republican principles being compromised, and you are talking about welfare extensions.
Yes, you are the party of free stuff. Carry on.
To everyone here.
Please understand shooter's game. He makes a provocative statement. Gets shot down by six or eight people, then instead of backing up his original statement, always moves on to something else; repeating the process ad infinitum. Watch his posts. You'll see a familiar pattern. Recommendation. Dont feed the troll.
No I want him to defend his arguments...I don't think he can do it
Shooter yours is the party of Nothing ever. As far as I can tell the Republican version of Government consists of the Department of Defense...and then only to hand out contracts for the things they don't do...
In all seriousness name me one thing you think the Government has an obligation toward the Public interest on...That's NOT Defense related
I do agree with your observation Swerver! Shooter is displaying the propensity of our brethren to the far right not to take any responsibility for what they say or what they profess dear to them!
Like a dog in the park, Shooter leaves his doings and others must come by to remove the stink! -Kevo
It seems I'll have to repost from another thread
Please, you saw my reference to "Bush rates" in my original comment which are the rates we've been paying for the last decade. Nobody will be paying less than the Bush rates. If you want to argue about side cuts from the stimulus, do so. But do it openly rather than resorting to footnotes as gotcha.
So where on this table do you see millionaires paying $50,000 less than before?
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?Docid=3750&DocTypeID=2
What does Govt do in the public interest? What does that have to do with this thread. But lest I be accused of swerving, how about maintaining the legal system? Or trade relations, or taxation, or research funding, how about building roads and bridges? What's your point?
Trolls like Annie Oakley bring value to the discussion, as well as unabashed humor. I enjoy reading other rational peoples reactions to him/her, it helps me keep my game up. There are literally thousands of websites filled with 100% Annie Oakleys, so he/she is doing us a huge favor by coming by and saying such fact-berift baloney.
Shooter-
And I'll repost from the same thread:
The romney welfare queens pay a 12% tax rate , while the shooter suckers pay twice that for a tax rate
Now they are thrilled their own GOP politicians want to raise working class rates even more , makes a lot of sense doesn't it?
ok Shooter since we are going back to old threads now
Exactly what was soooo omgtheworldisendingchaoswoeawful about those Clinton Tax rates and how were they "Bad" for the economy again?
Or are you just going to dodge that and bail again?
Gad. First comment #1.2...
What did you think I as referring to? The Magna Carta?
2nd comment #1.7...
Maybe you were thinking I was talking about the latest Rolling Stones tour? Meanwhile I'm still looking for the source of millionaires paying $50,000 less, rather than the more, an extra Federal Income Tax Bracket, (not to be confused with state tax brackets, payroll taxes, tax credits refundable and other wise, sales taxes, gas taxes, highway tolls, liquor taxes, and excise taxes. Or death taxes.)... denotes?
So in other words shooter you got nuthin...
I missed 1.7. Boehner's offer doesn't keep "everything the same", so I assumed you were referring to current tax rates, which entail more than the Bush marginal rate cuts. I responded about paying less in the last thread. Perhaps you don't understand how marginal rates work. I'll go into more detail...
On just the income between $250,000 and a million, those earning more than a million would pay just under $30,000/ year less. Including the Boehner cuts to capital gains, dividends, and the like, the average millionaire would see another $20,000 difference between the two plans.
Do not bother feeding the trolls. Shooter is a hateful, racist troll.
Dragoon, that's not the real question. you are implying that Clinton rates were good for the economy, or neutral. How much better would the economy have been with Reagan rates?
You may recall we had Clinton rates after the market bubble burst which gave us the Clinton recession, and the 9/11 recession extension. Apparently the Clinton rates weren't helpful then. On the other hand the Bush cuts were. As you can see on this chart, when the cuts hit in 2003 employment dramatically turned for the better.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/TUw6hMzI7OI/AAAAAAAAKdo/Lv53LLi50Cs/s400/nonfarm-payroll-2011-01A.png
VVS -
So yes, Bush rates apply to the first million exactly in the same proportion as they did for the last decade. That is not a tax cut. After the million dollar mark taxes will be raised higher than they have been for the last decade. That is a tax hike.
Now you may think that having a rate system for a decade is "temporary", but I don't. How would you feel about a "temporary" ten year reduction in SS benefits?
Anybody that continues to scratch a hemorrhoid after knowing it is better they be left alone DESERVES the hemorrhoid.
Blank's posts translated:
"blaragh, blargh, blargh,blaragh, blargh, blargh,blaragh, blargh, blargh,blaragh, blargh, blargh,blaragh, blargh, blargh,"
Merry Christmas, troll.
So after all the semantic BS and picking of welfare nits, nobody is giving Boehner credit for pushing a bill that has higher taxes for the rich and no spending cuts.
OK fine, Boehner's on record for keeping taxes low, and Obama wants to take everyone over the cliff with higher taxes. Works for me.
Which Regan rates Shooter? He raised taxes 8 times
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts or history
Oh and as a PS Shooter that point you designated on the chart was at the height of the housing bubble. Most of that was due to housing starts and massive expansion in an overheated market which was caused by deregulation of the derivative market. So in that sense Yes Deregulation was good for the economy right up until the point where it exploded.
The Clinton rates were neutral in so far as they had no effect on the markets or on Profits in realistic terms. The reason the economy was up was because there was more money at the bottom then and it was moving around as opposed to now where it is concentrated at the top and not doing anything.
Not income tax rates, which if you really try to remember, was the topic. 28%.
Derivatives weren't deregulated, they were never regulated in the first place, thanks to Clinton's TreasSec. Mr. R Rubin.
As for money moving around at the bottom, In 2009 the bottom 50% made 13.4 percent of the income contribution, which is a bit more than the either of the last two years of Clinton. (Table 5) http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0#table1
So no, it wasn't about the bottom 50%. It was about the market bubble, and internet revolution.
So where is this $4.2 trillion in revenue Boehner was talking about this morning? You claim nobody will pay more. Impossible. And where is this "balanced" approch he keeps lying about the President not doing> You claim his plan B had NO cuts. You either haven't read it or listen to the lying Sack of S.
Let's row our way over the cliff, (assuming we're in a flow of torrent water), and splash land in the lake of new tax policy proposals on the other side of midnight, 1.1.13!
Maybe then, the Republicans can tread water enough to do the right thing and be serious about tax revenue necessary to run a first rate nation! -Kevo
LMAO!!! You've got jokes, had too much egg nog already.....Happy holidays to you too, you've already started my afternoon with laughter....
hey-that's Ralph Wilson stadium
no wonder my beloved bills stink!
If I could speak to President Obama, I would ask him to stop trying to negotiate with Republicans. Just stop. Forget the Grand Bargain forever. (Austerity, if implemented poorly, could actually increase deficits).
Specifically, stop assuming that Republicans are actually sincere in what they say. They're not. They don't care about deficits. They don't care about small government. They don't care about states' rights. They don't even care about a strong defense. They care about one thing and one thing only...making the rich richer. Period. Full stop.
On issue after issue, the American people agree with Democrats. When the President offers entitlement cuts, he confuses voters about the difference between Republicans and Democrats. He should stop confusing them. Demand legislation that voters want, and in the long run, the Republican Party will either cave or shrink. Contrary to what President Obama's better angels are telling him, Republicans don't have our country's best interests at heart.
Specifically, stop assuming that Republicans are actually sincere in what they say. They're not. They don't care about deficits. They don't care about small government. They don't care about states' rights. They don't even care about a strong defense. They care about one thing and one thing only...making the rich richer. Period. Full stop.
What CJ just said. When people stop pretending that something else is in play, then maybe we can get somewhere, but that would require people acting on the reality of the situation which CJ has quite eloquently stated.
Yea, but those polls are rigged. Real Americans agree with the Tea Party Caucus.
The GOP is verbally challenged. Crummy metaphors.
“If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them.”
George Orwell
So Rupert Murd stole George Orwell's quote for his empires motto. Who knew!
At least that's what I call Fox channel. News for those to lazy to use their own brains and are willing to let others provide the thinking.
WDYT? ST&D The question is drive where? Simply repeating prepackaged tokens means the destinations are pre determined by the authors of the tokens.
The key is what Orwell means by writing well. There are plenty of people "writing"- in fact, there has been an unprecedented explosion of "writing" since the rise of social media. There are plenty of writers for Fox. Is this thinking?
Much of "writing" is a word salad of fossilized ingredients. But there is a widespread preference for such well preserved carrion. It means little is digested. Fresh food of living squirming metaphors or word juxtapositions that bite back are dismissed as unpalatable.
Maybe it is disinterest due to our last 10,000 years of domestication. Maybe we are just to squeamish about the gore of the hunt for meaning.
I believe Mr Orwell was alluding to the skill of being able to put coherent reasoned thought to paper in an literate manner .
if u gt wht i mean
There are college educated people who are unable to string a complete paragraph together or put an idea or concept on paper .
Critical thinking is a lost art with the gullible believing whatever is laid in front of them.
need welfare check banned, re-reg of multiple accounter cellarppl.
Thanks, Sally! Good to know someone sane is watching.
Thanks Sally and Merry Christmas!
do i have to get my spine ripped out to post on here
Yes . . . tell me where you are and I'll be right over.
You could try posting something relevant to the conversation. That is a good start.
Cheers!
This one is a new one ... not very good.
Uh-huh, unless you opt to post rational ideas. That's a high bar for some posters. (BTW, it's not your spine they're interested in....)
Here is a football headline for Mitch. Steelers, Raiders, Cardinals, and Titans, lose to Saints, Browns, Patriots and Padres.
This is the pathological side of the Republicans coming out, the blatant projection. Plan B is all about projection, a desperate attempt to deflect the inevitable blame. Been there and done that Republicans, people who value the truth have long ago left the Republican brand...
You mean to say that they should think it's a good deal. Raising the taxable income to $400,000 is not what he campaigned on and the chained CPI is not a good thing. People receiving Social Security benefits don't usually stuff them in their mattresses; they spend them at businesses, helping the economy and theoretically broadening the tax base.
This has little to do with policy but the GOP, especially McConnell and Boehner, are going to continue to use the Karl Rove technique of blaming your own bad behavior on your opponent whether it has any logic or not. I mean look who has really been Lucy and pulled the football out from Charlie Brown. They were close to a deal (not that i like it all) where they both agreed and then Boehner says there is no way the GOP house will vote for this, so he does Plan B.
As Steve pointed out on another article, this is all about Boehner protecting his position. After arriving at what might have been the basis for a reasonable compromise, he got his marching orders from the back benches which said that the original deal wasn't going to meet with their approval, and now Boehner is trying to extricate himself from the mess with as little damage as possible.
Why Boehner wants to stay on as Speaker is beyond me. He will go down in history as the most inept Speaker ever, especially if he stays on for another four years. It would be much better for him to let Judas Iscariot, aka Eric Cantor, take the position and then Eric would have to deal with the stupidity of his tea partiers and he would take the blame for screwing up. Boehner should just state publicly that dealing with the idiot contingent of the republican party is an untenable, impossible situation, and that he was no longer willing to spend his time beating his head against a stone wall.
But, dkm, he would then have to move out of that nice, plush Speaker's office.
Do you think the Republicans have the notion that they are going to come galloping in after January 1st and "lower taxes for everyone who makes less than a million" -- and see themselves as saviors?
Yuck. . .
I fired off a short note to my reps in Congress. I asked them why, when I get a 1.7% cost of living increase, they get a 3% cost of living increase every year automatically and MY so called income is on the chopping block? Why not their income or perks or pension or benefits? Seeing they get it from taxes we all pay, doesn't it affect the deficit?
I don't expect an answer, but if they are dumb enough to tell me it's to get "qualified" people in the job, I'm gonna write back and tell them the American people can see it isn't working.
Good question Phenner. And 3% of their income is a lot more than 1.7% of mine or yours because our income is a fraction of theirs to begin with.
ya know when you were a kid when you did something you weren't supposed to do, you get caught in a lie about it and your parents know you're lying but you won't admit it. that's like the house republicans. they're lying, stalling, demanding what they want when they want it and it's all a lie. everyone can tell they're just going backwards except them. of cours these are the same people who thought mitt romney was going to win up until election night.
they are little children who are still riding the great republican election wave in 2010. HEY GUESS WHAT??? THAT WAS LIKE A HUNDRED YEARS AGO!!!! IT'S OVER! Obama has survived you and you just look sad and weak and desperate and pathetic. this should be the main story every day.
Why are they voting on a bill that can't get through the Senate. Eric Cantor can't get it through either and if it did get to President Obama's desk he would veto it. So why are they wasting time. And why are they going after social security. I have paid int that since I was 17.
How much money do these rich people need anyway? I say go over the cliff and take the cuts including all their salaries throw the bums out and get on with it.
Actually McConnell is a football fan. He attends every University of Louisville game. He's just a lying asswhole.
I can't recall the last time the Republicans were honest about anything. I have never seen dysfunction like this.
It's been torture just watching the GOP slowly come to its inevitable end. But who is watching any longer?
It wouldn't be so bad if they were at least trying to save themselves instead of doing one dumb thing after another, inflicting more pain to the party with each successive wound. I did enjoy the clown car GOP primaries but this constant stupidity has gotten really old.
I don't think they even realize how irrelevant they have become to the Silent Majority. The general public expects them to screw up and not fix anything they broke. The Aryan Nation and KKK folks are not going to stand for this incompetence much longer, hold their noses, and vote Democratic.
We all know it.
Um, Sandy -- Do I read you correctly? You see the Aryan Nation and KKK folks giving up in frustration at the incompetence of the GOTP and then deciding to vote Democratic?
I don't think our message is emitted at frequencies detectable by their brains. I really don't think we liberals are as desperate as all that.
Ashley Judd is going to be a Godsend to KY.
Some one needs to be.
Key irony: Kentucky and Lawmaker, right next to each other!!!
I can top that! One of the trolls here used the phrase "Republican principles being compromised" and expected us to take him/her/it seriously!
The thing that irks me the most is that Boehner keeps rejecting Obama's proposals as not being "reasonable" and "balanced". What is reasonable or balanced about a plan that keeps tax cuts in place, except for those earning over $1,000,000, and offers NO spending cuts whatsoever?
The Republicans in Congress still refuse to admit they lost the election; they still are willing to play chicken with the country's (nay, the world's) economic well-being; and are still fully willing to hold the full faith and credit of the US hostage to their desires (that fight is still coming, folks).
I am so waiting for them to be voted out of office in 2014. I suppose that's just a pipe-dream, though.
Ever seen how Charlie Brown treats Lucy when he finally gets to kick the football?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLPXLm642Y