First up from the God Machine this week is a look at the increasingly aggressive efforts on the part of the religious right movement to blame secularism and church-state separation for last week's massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn.
While the NRA's Wayne LaPierre blamed the media and the entertainment industry for gun violence, Franklin Graham went a step further, initially blaming television, music, and video games, before turning his attention to government neutrality towards religion.
For those who can't watch clips online, Graham complained, "Why are we shocked? We shouldn't be shocked. This is what happens when a society turns its back on God."
Throughout the week, this was the standard line from prominent religious right leaders and organizations, which pushed the argument that violence would be diminished if government officials endorsed, sponsored, and encouraged religiosity. Focus on the Family founder James Dobson attributed the shootings to the notion that God has "allowed judgment to fall upon us" because Americans accept reproductive rights and marriage equality.
"[M]illions of people have decided that God doesn't exist, or he's irrelevant to me and we have killed 54 million babies and the institution of marriage is right on the verge of a complete redefinition," Dobson said. "Believe me, that is going to have consequences."
As nutty and tone deaf as LaPierre's speech seemed yesterday, there's an entire religio-political movement that has spent a week making similar remarks from a theocratic perspective.
Also from the God Machine this week:
* In western Pennsylvania this month, an elementary school music teacher shot his ex-wife while she played the organ during church services. He then left, returned to the First United Presbyterian Church of Coudersport, and shot her again to make sure she was dead (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
* Paul Ecke Central Elementary School in Encintas, California, has introduced yoga classes for kids, which has sparked protests among local conservative activists who believe yoga crosses the church-state line.
* Paolo Gabriele gets an early Christmas present: "Pope Benedict made a surprise pre-Christmas visit to the jail holding his former butler on Saturday and pardoned him for stealing and leaking documents that alleged corruption in the Holy See."
* Blake Page, a 24-year-old cadet, quit West Point less than six months before graduation, citing religious discrimination -- Page isn't religious, and felt uncomfortable in a military culture that promotes religiosity and, according to Page, disrespects nonreligious cadets.
* In Alaska, a Republican state legislative aide became "obsessed" with her role in an anti-Islam group and "illegally used state resources" to promote Stop Islamization of America's interests. The aide, Karen Sawyer, resigned and has been permanently banned from rehire by Alaska's legislature.
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Yoga? YOGA? Oh good GOD!!!!
OMG, LMAO, Mego,,, You Rock,, :>)
"Pope Benedict made a surprise pre-Christmas visit to the jail holding his former butler on Saturday and pardoned him for stealing and leaking documents that alleged corruption in the Holy See."
Good ol' Ratzi the Nazi, doing his best every day to cover up the crimes of the 2,000 year old criminal conspiracy known as the "Catholic" Church.
The deity of the religious right has more in common with Sauron or Satan than with anything worthy of worship. Its message seems to be bow down to me or I'll kill your children. He and those who agree with him need to be consistently denounced as worshippers of spiritual terror and violence and far removed from any coherent account of the Divine.
Are you surprised? Numerous people throughout history have made the observation that the god that people worship reflects their own prejudices, so when you have vicious, nasty people like Franklin, Dobson, and all the rest of that group, you know that their god is a nasty, vengeful, petulant being.
These self proclaimed "Christians" need to stop reading the Old Testament and read the New Testament. The O.T. came from the Torah, which the "Christians" bastardized to suit their own biases. Nowhere in Jesus's teachings does God ask for help from crazies to punish the "wicked". I imagine that by now God is probably pretty fed up with being blamed for all the violence in the world and has a special place in Hell for those who claim to commit it is His name.
I saw a report several years ago (the Onion) that a couple more circles of Hell have been built just to accommodate certain individuals.
While the Onion used to be parody, reality has caught up with it and now it has become a reliable source of information.
It is impossible for an act of Fundamentalism to be made that someone won't mistake for a parody.- Poe's corollary
If a god can get kicked out of school by government--especially considering the peak operating efficiency of our current government--then "omnipotent" doesn't mean what you think it means.
Hint: It doesn't mean that nobody sits with you at lunch, or that you get stuffed in your gym locker with your pants pulled around your ankles after your lunch money is stolen.
Answer: Omnipotent means "All-powerful," which implies that pouting--and letting other get hurt or killed because you didn't get enough attention--is intentional and spiteful.
Extra Credit - Identify this quote:
"You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
Moderator--please delete; I am the author, and re-wrote this (essentially) when it didn't appear to post right away (I got kicked out of the system several times while trying to register/verify).
My apologies for the unintentional overposts; thanks.
"Inconceivable!" (vizzini)
"You keep.... it means." ("My name is Inigo Montoya. Prepare to die.")
Many progressive clergy like myself both have denounced the religious right's views on the shooting in Connecticut, but also offered up alternative views. These have been helpfully collected here: http://landonwhitsitt.com/2012/12/22/free-ebook-a-good-word-sermons-prayers-and-liturgies-in-response-to-the-shooting-at-sandy-hook-elementary/
There are multiple responses from the Christian community
Is Franklin Graham unaware of the number of churches in the Newtown, CT area? Has he not seen how the residents have been gathering at their churches to mourn? Has he not heard the bells tolling in memoriam for the victims? Is he unaware that eight of the children killed by Adam Lanza had their funeral services at the same church Adam and his mother attended (St Rose of Lima Catholic Church)? How can Franklin Graham claim that society has turned its back on God?
I wonder how Mr. Graham explains shootings in churches?
"Could it be...SATAN?" :-)
Did someone put you at the pop culture reference desk for today?
I got a million of 'em...and few scruples about using them!
I not only turn my back on god but I also defecate in your/it's general direction sir, then I fling at just like a primate (that I evolved from)!
(: - )
I like how this one sociopath talks about turning our back on "Gawd" while in the same breath tells us that we need remote control murder devices as part of our Constitutional glory fecking hallelujah.... That's some trick right there! Well, maybe I need an AR15 too!
if these "religious" nutcases ever find out who you are (or me for that matter) we'll both need protection. i suggest a pump-action shotgun as you don't hardly have to aim except in their general direction. that said, i still won't have one around the house.
p.s. - if you need help with your flit-shinging art project let me know as you can tell by my posts i'm full of it and more than willing to toss some in a good direction.
as smart as you are Rachel, why are you a shill for evil zionist israel ?
now you carry water for the israeli-firster crowd and attack Hagel ... did they threaten you? bribe you? did they honey-trap you? ... what method did the israeli agents and operatives insure your usefulness in their cause?
I'm thinking the best way to teach empathy is thru reading books. It wouldn't surprise me if right now the average number of 200 page books read in an average K-12 school district during a student's 12 years is one, especially amoung males.
I'd suggest reintroduceing love of books thru a school curriculum based on watching movies. Watch a movie, read the book, watch movie again,,,.
Encourage socializing thru mentoring and clubs..
Sorry Luz, but intelligence and common sense are not allowed in preaching or politics,, and education is becoming a luxury too.
Luz canN, good idea. if you want to get a kid started on reading just get them a copy of the first Terry Pratchett Discworld book. his books are extremely funny and quite subversive (if you have the usual conservative mindset) not to mention addictive.
eventually, if you continue to read the series (and, they're hard to put down), he covers everything about politics, jingoism, religion, law enforcement, heroes, bigotry, you name it. by the end of the series the kid is an avid reader. i know this because i did this to my son who wasn't much of a reader before he started.
having created a reader though, be prepared to have all of your views challenged.
Somebody should send these so called Christians a copy of the new film just shown on PBS. It's about the 1st Amendment......freedom of religion and it uses the actual words of Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, Madison and Washington to show that our founding fathers ensured freedom of conscience DELIBERATELY! They did NOT want religion within a hundred miles of our gov't of the PEOPLE!! It wasn't an accident or an oversight. It was DELIBERATE. God belongs in the church of your choice NOT in our public schools or other institutions because the question then becomes WHOSE version of God gets used. The founding fathers wanted no such questions about our gov't of, by and for ALL the PEOPLE.
And the religious right started telling them what they really meant 5 minutes after saying what they said about church and state.
http://youtu.be/IvVr2uks0C8 Just askin.
nota bene (NB):
If you comment, even without obscenity, to a poster who's subsequently banned by the community (Yes!!), your ever-so-meaningful comments will also disappear.
Ahem. So I'll try to remember what I was saying. It was good, really, guys.
Cheers to all youse guys who post on MaddowBlog! And Cheers to Rachel and Steve and Laura and Will and Bill and Chris and Melissa et al. You all mean a great deal to us and bring truly special things to us, whether you know it or not.
Take good care of you and yours. Hope the roads are clear and your chimneys clean.
Gun Violence: "It isn't a god problem, it's a people problem."
If an omnipotent god can get kicked out of school by the government (especially considering the peak operating efficiency of our current government), then "omnipotent" doesn't mean what you think it means.
Graham seemed to make two mutually-exclusive claims. Which is his "truth"?
Was an omnipotent god actually "kicked out of school" and therefore, regrettably unable to attend this tragic event without an invitation (and therefore, not so omnipotent)?
-- or --
Does he envision a god who is actually omnipotent--watching, and able to help--but pouting and spitefully unwilling to help children who were getting slaughtered--because s/he wasn't getting enough attention--in order to set an example?
Hint: Omnipotent doesn't mean "stuffed inside a gym locker with you pants pulled down to your ankles with your lunch money stolen."
I'm not presuming to tell anyone which gods or goddesses to believe in, or which characteristics any such deities would (or should) possess ...
... however, Reverend Graham played the "blame the heathens" card to ostensibly justify his opposition to sensible gun safety ... so I feel justified in making a suggestion to anyone who might be concerned about the apparent limitations that he places on any god who can get "kicked out" of schools: to paraphrase Brody's comment from Jaws: "You're gonna need a bigger god."
Sensible Gun Safety Reform: "It isn't a god problem, it's a people problem."
If an omnipotent god can get kicked out of school by the government (especially considering the peak operating efficiency of our current government), then "omnipotent" doesn't mean what you think it means.
Graham seemed to make two mutually-exclusive claims. Which is his "truth"?
Was an omnipotent god actually "kicked out of school" and therefore, regrettably unable to attend this tragic event without an invitation (and therefore, not so omnipotent)?
-- or --
Does he envision a god who is actually omnipotent--watching, and able to help--but pouting and spitefully unwilling to help children who were getting slaughtered--because s/he wasn't getting enough attention--in order to set an example?
Hint: Omnipotent doesn't mean "stuffed inside a gym locker with you pants pulled down to your ankles with your lunch money stolen."
I'm not presuming to tell anyone which gods or goddesses to believe in, or which characteristics any such deities would (or should) possess ...
... however, Reverend Graham played the "blame the heathens" card to ostensibly justify his opposition to sensible gun safety ... so I feel justified in making a suggestion to anyone who might be concerned about the apparent limitations that he places on any god who can get "kicked out" of schools: to paraphrase Brody's comment from Jaws: "You're gonna need a bigger god."
We hear what you're saying. Perhaps you could sit down and talk this over with somebody who is close to you, one-to-one. Mild-mannered MaddowBlog (and the many liberal wusses who lurk here) may not be exactly the most useful audience for you.
Good wishes for a peaceful holiday.
OOPS!
The second post was accidental--it was my first time (so please, be gentle). I reported the duplicate as "No Value," but maybe I shouldn't have--because it now has comments. Maybe someone has the skills to merge them (though I doubt that this is--or should be--a priority).
I'm not sure what you would like me to talk over--but I apparently wasn't true enough to myself to make it painfully obvious that I'm here because I'm proud to be a "liberal wuss." Also, a 24-year military veteran, small business owner, and non-profit organizer ... and I generally use "progressive" to express my political leanings ... but I'm flexible; "liberal wuss" works too.
Best wishes to you too, through the holidays and the new year!
Heh..double posting happens.
(And I proudly wear the "liberal wuss" and "godless heathen" labels, both at once.)
Double-posts might be forgivable, but I noticed I actually triple-posted (a breach of etiquette--I skipped right over the "double-dog posting" altogether...).
... got kicked out trying to register, and it appeared that all was lost ... rewrote ... got redirected again while trying to "validate" ... reposted again (smart enough to Ctrl-C before submitting that time).
Happy Heathen Holidays to you!
Hi, Pundidnt -- Speaking just for myself, your comment may have seemed a tad extended and a bit more intense than the crowd here are used to. It's a Saturday night, so we may seek out comments more like our usual just because we're mellow (and ready for our Heathen Holidays, too, I along with ninz!).
I thought -- again, purely my subjective reading -- that your words were unusually heart-felt. That's not a crime or discourteous, just not what we generally see or engage in so much here at MaddowBlog. (Who am I? A fragin moderator?? No!)
Perhaps a step-wise set of comments over time would work, each perhaps triggering its own discussion thread. Folks appear more likely to engage once they're convinced someone might actually listen. You know, back and forth.
Dunno, but it doesn't seem that this issue will die down over the holiday break. If anything, that itself might raise the issue to the level it has deserved for so long.
This is a seriously magnificent group of souls, and we admire the heck out of Rachel.
Please drop by again. And thanks for your good wishes! Back atcha!
Helena,
I appreciate your considerate response.
I've been a fan of Rachel (as if we're on a first-name basis) for a couple of years now; after retiring last year after 24 years of military service, it was cathartic to come home and watch TRMS after spending all day being forced to watch Fox News because I was in the political minority (OK, not "Clockwork Orange" forced--but the dark side's presence was ubiquitous).
I hereby offer an open apology if I disrespected anyone or hijacked the thread. To be honest, even after retiring from the military, I've generally repressed public political commentary (even when painfully facing the most egregious inconsistency and hypocrisy) because I co-own a small business (with my wife) that happily serves customers of all persuasions, political or otherwise.
When I finally decided to participate, this is was definitely the place that I wanted to be, but I'll admit that I probably didn't temper my passion so well. The repetitive posts, though, were just examples of me failing at technology (not usually a weakness for me, but wow--triple posting? Really?). I've been flirting with the idea of joining this forum for quite a while, so I genuinely appreciate your feedback, and I'll work on reading the audience and atmosphere better.
However, if this blog is ultimately a good fit for me, I do come with some baggage, including verbosity, on occasion ... and lots of semicolons, colons, em-dashes, parentheses, and occasionally, ellipses. And asides that contain movie quotes and other cultural references (a few even current and timely). When I'm in a comfortable forum, I tend to write the way I think, which is generally a continuous "stream of consciousness," with occasional punctuation. I'm just trying to accurately transcribe my inner voices ... oops ... I meant inner "voice." Singular.
My "crime" was getting too comfortable too fast; I had good intentions, but I genuinely understand your point. Thanks again for offering your time to provide considerate and helpful feedback.
No crime in that, pundidnt -- stream of consciousness worked for James Joyce, but some of us aren't as used to it. Or maybe my prehistoric attention span is growing shorter. Glad for once I said what I meant so that someone else could understand it. That's not often the case.
Very sorry you are obliged to hear Fixed Noise where you work. Very, very sorry. It says a lot about you that you choose to come here to recover.
(Yeah, I know, but even on other sites everyone seems to know who you mean when you say just "Rachel." It's not out of lack of respect, though I once worried she might think so. But there's an undeniable level of affection here for her and her crew.)
Twenty-four years in the military?? Cheese, man (or woman)! And here you are, a fellow wussy librul. Hope yours was an uncomplicated separation. Our knowing that helps give context to your messages, too.
Gotta feed the felines. Time and kittehs wait for no (wo)man.
See ya' back here soon.
I wasn't forced out--but as a mid-level manager, I often felt there was a palpable cultural bias that created barriers, often between generations, because newer service members (as a cross-section of modern society) are generally more receptive to social diversity and other "progressive" ideas. I was frustrated by this, mostly because these junior personnel, who aren't yet established in the organization, are often faced with a choice between "suffering" quietly or drawing the spotlight onto themselves. Either option creates a potential barrier to becoming fully integrated with the team ... and sometimes results in a loss of talented people who can't resolve their identity with their vocation.
I'm not implying that political ideology is the same as sexual identity, of course--especially when so many were forced to chose between an honest, loving relationship or a career--but I believe an analogous argument can be made. When members of an organization don't feel accepted as they are, I find it hard to argue that they are truly being encouraged to fully integrate with the team, and the stakes are even higher when the success--and therefore safety--of the team relies, in part, on intangibles like "bonding."
For this reason, I carefully avoided pushing my views, because I didn't want junior personnel to be concerned about repercussions when they didn't agree with me, or that their perspective wasn't welcome. That's not how I lead anyway--but I felt that it was better to avoid such perceptions altogether.
Unfortunately, that courtesy wasn't always afforded me throughout my career, and I wish I could say that my beliefs never affected my career opportunities, but we live in an imperfect world, and sometimes, we can only play the cards we're dealt. Fortunately, we live in a society that occasionally lets us ask for a fresh deck of cards!
Besides just "venting," I vainly hold out hope that being a bigmouth now, when I'm outside the system, might even incrementally help bring some awareness to the issue. To be honest, that's not what I intended today--but that's where the inner voices--er, voice (singular!) led me today.
Happy Holidays!
Oh, BTW, FWIW--and using any other acronym combinations that you find relevant--it happens to be "cheese, man," not cheese, woman," if you care. If, however, you don't care--I'm still a man, but in that case, feel free to remain indifferent to the fact.
I'm baffled by the way this system renders changes.
First, I make a correction to a new post during the editing grace period, and the edit appears to save correctly.
... then the original, unedited post is displayed anyway.
Then, I post a reply to correct the original (essentially, a footnote addendum)...
... then the main post updates to reflect the original edit (making the addended comment obsolete).
Is it just me?
The Christian god is a personal god which means that if punishment is necessary for some act, that punishment isn't meted out to innocent people, only to the perpetrator. Frank Graham, Robertson, Dobson, and all the rest of them believe that these children suffered because of something that someone else had done.
Ergo, they don't believe in a personal god and therefore are not Christian. Well, Duhhh! Like no one figured that out long ago from an abundance of evidence.
it's all about fear and control.
My Family for Generations have been farmers & hunters and we believe that the NRA no longer speaks for the majority of there members, There statements are Hypocritical, I have listened to what was said and found they spent money and time on against gun registration, Waiting Period, they where against ATF doing there job, changing the definition of assault weapons, changing the limit of rounds allowed in a Clip, What good would it do to have a Database of people that have a psychiatric problems when over 40 percent of gun are sold without going threw gun registration?
We need a new hunting association!
So glad to hear you say that!
If the NRA cannot clean house and get the rot out it is time for honest gun owners to start anew. You wouldn't have the money backing of the gun manufacturers, but you would get back respect.
Once he was made top dog, LaPierre made the goal of the NRA to arm the probably paranoid who feel the need to protect themselves FROM our govt by ensuring easy access to the weapons of war like those seen on any battlefield around the world.
I do not believe the recent mass shooters saw themselves as hunters of humans but simply at WAR, with something/someone either out there or inside their mind. Thanks to LaP he had the means.
Check out the board members of the NRA and it will all become clear to you as to where they are coming from,, or going to.
Someone posted their idea of how to fix the NRA the other day and I think it might work. Get all of us progressives to JOIN the NRA and then vote out the current board. Attack from within. Anyone else want to join me?
About that mentally ill data base that LaPierre suggested, it might not be such a bad idea as long as the people maintaining the data base include "gun nut" as the main criteria. Anyone who has more than one gun in their possession would automatically qualify for the list because how many guns can you shoot at one time?
And years ago in Texas there was a similar uproar to the yoga controversy about introducing "Eastern Religions" into the school because one of the grade school teachers was teaching her kids how to relax. It showed a picture of a little kid sitting crosslegged, what we used to call "Indian style," and some dingbat got all bent out of shape claiming that it was a lotus position. The teacher's job was threatened if she didn't apologize and stop "teaching the kids evil religions."
One tongue in cheek letter to the editor suggested that since Christmas and Easter are based on pagan traditions that they should no longer be celebrated, and that since athletic contests between two groups of people were originally part of Greek worship of Zeus and his buddies, that from now interscholastic football would be banned on religious grounds. That suggestion didn't attract much support, which just proves that right wing christianists are very selective in their religion.
i like the idea of a database. there are simple rules that would make it useful. the first rule is that the database is constructed only from competency tests given to prospective gun owners upon application for a permit to own or carry. this keeps it from being used to abuse anybody with a mental illness who is not trying to purchase a gun.
all this presupposes that uniform permitting and registration are federally mandated. and, that all gun sales are required to be permitted with the appropriate waiting period and background/fitness checks.
as for all the god-botherers, they can just shut up and get out of the argument. separation of church and state, doncha know.
Please start a national campaign calling for a revision to the NRA constitution that will require that all memebers:
I.) Attend at least two of four regularly scheduled quarterly chapter meetings;
II.) All members attending a regularly scheduled chapter meeting must present evidence that they are armed with at least one handgun;
III.) Vote for the organizations name be changed to the National Hangun and Rifle Carrying Association.
The penalty for the now NRA failing to comply should be that all television or cable comedians be required to tell at least on joke about NRA memebers questioning their intelligence, sexual function, and knowledge of guns. We will want to be careful here. We do not want to initiate a campain of calling NRA memembers beer bellied couch potatoes, and impotent fools. To be fair the jokes should cover women NRA memembers as well as young members who might still be thin, addicted to computer games, and knowlegeable about guns.
Religion simply isn't raising the collective consciousness of the human race above our hostile nature.
I grant that individual lives seem to benefit from religions security blanket of hope. But as a planet, so many fractured types and divisive interpretations of spirituality have done nothing more than segregate and generate hostility of its own (as demonstrated by Graham).
What is religion, what is "free will" if Homo Sapiens as a whole is driven by or cannot rise above our most base instincts?
so, mature or die trying.
hope we mature. soon!
Bush and the Grahams kept saying... "This is a Crusade". Saying that to the Arab peoples would be like saying "This is a Holocaust" to the Jewish people..... And it was = over 100,000 killed.
The Emperor Constantine chose the books that would be in our Christian bible...and he used it to rule ..with fear. Word has it that the books taken out were of loving and forgiving and 'everybody' goes to heaven. What a concept. "Woe to you Pharisees who would change my words and frighten my children away from me".
There is a painting of Jesus, Mohammad and Vishnu walking arm and arm down the Ganges...
Oh yes indeed we people are under the thumb of the Allmighty the East coast got hit by super storm Sandy because Tim Tebow was benched for playing with the Jets it certainly had nothing to do with global climate change. But then they just call it weather! So what is it make up your twisted minds? God or weather! According to the good book God gave man free will so now is he reneging on this promise? Our Constitution was written by men not God and has been watered down since its conception by rich lobbyist in their favor. And when it was written there was no assault rifles with bullets that tears flesh to pieces in a cartridge that holds multiple shots. So it seems to me that one party has been bought out by one group, the rich with only making more money in their favor!So if you want to point your guns somewhere in fear of a unruly government maybe you should look at those Tea Party people in Congress and their masters who helped put them there.
XXXOOO, Good one! You go!
Anyone who is envyous of any preachers wealth or any ceos weath has problem with themselves . they have earned their money through hard work and in franklin grahams case speaking on the bible . His father billy graham taught him . Franklin graham is on top anda well respected preacher , and just becasue you dont respect him shows me something about you .
Any time they say "God told me" I have disrespect for them. When they make millions from spouting forth "their" form of religion, I disrespect them. I don't care how much money they have. It just makes it harder for them to enter the Kingdom.
When did anyone cry envy on this?
Everyone is upset because this man is trying to blame an act committed by a human being that killed innocent children, on a lack of god in society. It doesn't matter what you believe, the key concept is that YOU believe it. It's hard to respect someone who places blame on an entire culture and its values. I'm not saying you personally are at fault for this, but respect goes both ways. Disrespect and opposition are not the same thing.
Franklin Graham is just as nutty and self-serving as is Wayne LaPierre.
I am so sick of this crap, God belongs in the mind of those people that attend meetings in those little white buildings with a bell in a tower, fine, just quit forcing the BS down the throats of us that believes it does NOT belong in policies that govern the other 75% of us who may or may not believe of a "Supreme Being". Half of this crap they spew isn't even Christian, let alone Constitutional,,,,
One of the reasons this country was founded was so that people could choose to participate in any religion they want. Another reason was so that EVERYONE would have the right to freedom of speech. A person may disagree with what another believes, but we ALL have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion, popular or not.