Ann Kempa writes from Norman, Oklahoma, in defense of the reddest state in the nation:
Realistically, Oklahoma is, for the most part, a Bible Belt, evangelical mainstay. There are pockets of liberalism, primarily in university towns and larger cities. Through the end of time (or the end of days), we probably won’t approve gay marriage. So why, my associates from the coasts ask, do you stay there?
My dear friend from NYC was visiting recently. It was late. He was in a rental car on the turnpike at a toll booth. Scrambling for money and messing with the GPS. He apologized to the toll attendant who said, "Honey, you're doin' just fine. Just take it easy. You're just fine."
I was born here. A southern sense of politeness and pull-togetherness and help-people-you-don’t-even-know-itedness pervades our lives. Does the legislation to curtail women’s reproductive rights and reject Obamacare go against all the values my parents and Christian upbringing taught me? Absolutely. Is my family here? Yes. Did my 92-year-old father go to the courthouse in northeastern Oklahoma to vote for Obama the first go-round before Daddy died? Yes.
I have made political phone calls and put out fliers and had Obama signs ripped from my yard. But grouping all Oklahomans together into an intolerant, ignorant clump is another kind of prejudice.
Things won’t change if the rest of the country keeps dissin' us.
Just as an aside from this very blue, very big city where I live now, I would suggest that folks from Oklahoma would discover politeness and cooperation and a help for strangers up here. It's human here, too, and kinda wonderful, really.
Image: At the Christmas parade in Norman. How to send us stuff.
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I think it was Jon Stewart who once said "America is primarily a moderate country with 15% crazy at both ends"
and for the most part I think that's true...I just think their crazy is just meaner than ours...
Merry Christmas to all my friends on the blog. Merry Christmas Sally and Tyler.
The people are not the problem in Oklahoma. Great people live there. The problem is the way the politicians are elected. Some strange issue, like a constitutional amendment prohibiting Sharia (Islamic) law from being implemented in Oklahoma, something that would never happen, is put on the ballot and is publicized nationally. The amendment is supported by influential political and religious groups and passes because people are convinced that Sharia law is bad and turn out to vote in favor of adding the amendment. While voting to add the amendment, the people will vote to elect Republican candidates who also support the amendment. It is all part of Karl Rove's wedge and win strategy that was so successful in the 2010 elections and, on the state level, was very successful in 2012.
Don't blame the people, blame those who lie to the people and convince them they are being told the truth.
It always galls me when people in the middle of the country (where I was born and attended college) pretend they have some sort of monopoly on manners and human kindness. Once you step out of midtown Manhattan or other hyper-dense and hurried pockets of the country people are people and quite nice, and in fact you will often see consideration and care on those streets, too.
Here in Blue Jersey this week people at Target and other stores found gift cards to help them with post-Sandy purchases. Kids in Plainfield just got bikes for Christmas from complete strangers. My neighbor across the street is a home-bound senior for whom flowers were delivered to another, incorrect address. She called a few of us asking if we'd gotten them, and so we went door-to-door to find her flowers. We found them.
Yes, there are nice people where you live. Same here.
I live in Oklahoma, but I don't even live in a blue dot. I'm surrounded by red....
The correspondent is right about the people here. They are the best - if you can keep them off the subjects of religion and politics. But I did drive past a house yesterday that is flying the hateful Dixie flag - during the Christmas season yet!
When people ask why we live in such a place, we tell them that we are missionaries to the heathens.
I always thought Mississippi was the reddest state in the union.
I have a friend who moved to Birmingham, Alabama, and I visited him. I'd never been to Alabama before, or anywhere in the deep south before.
I was trying to be polite, but I mentioned that parts of the state didn't even look like it belonged in the United States to me. It seemed like I had wondered into a third world country.
That's when one of his friends who had grown up in Alabama piped up and said, "yeh, some people think Alabama is pretty bad. But we've got nothing on Mississippi. That place is a sh*t hole!"
I think it's quite telling that the poorest, most backwards, least educated states are the reddest states. This means that there is likely an inverse relationship between education and limiting poverty rates and conservative attitudes and beliefs.
I think we've just found a perfect way to turn any red state into a blue state, so long as we're willing to put the resources into it to make it happen.
I wish. but you would have to find a way to cut off Fox News too.
I agree about Mississippi being the worst. My home state of Oklahoma is usually second-worst in almost everything. We're in a race to the bottom here, but Mississippi is still in the lead. Thank God for Mississippi, eh?
Mississippi doesn't vote as "red" as Oklahoma does because its relatively large African-American population tends to vote Democratic. No doubt Mississippi's non-black population votes redder than anyone.
Every one of Oklahoma's 77 counties voted against Obama in both 2008 and 2012. If I'm not mistaken, we're the only state with zero Obama counties - in BOTH of the elections. In 2012, only Utah voted for Romney by a higher percentage than Oklahoma, likely because of the Mormon connection.
The idea of education has a fairly different appearance to the home school champions .
There sadly is no quick solution because for you to really succeed you need to change their greater culture to embrace the new opportunities you give them.
No educational curriculum will work for instance, if every parent thinks you're pushing "Satan and his science!" on the kiddies and they then inform large numbers of their children to say, purposefully flunk every test out of protest that the parents want the curriculum changed to something they like better.
It's not just about physical resources, it's also about persuasion and marketing. You have to find a way to convince the population that they should want to take the resources you're offering them. Again, look at Red Governors trying to stall or halt Obamacare as much as possible (and it's medicaid expansion.)
The aid money would help greatly but they rightfully do not want it because of their paranoia about what they think the government will EVENTUALLY do some day.
(Note that this isn't a real present concern, but rather that they're so paranoid they think that this is just the first step to tricking them into a long con.)
convincing the lied to of ANYTHING other than what they believe is almost IMPOSSIBLE---
Sure help your neighbor unless he is ethnic, different, or progressive in his/her thinking. Yes, they are delightful people encased in their own little bubble of righteousness. They are just plain suspicious and intolerant of anyone outside the bubble!
Indeed. They seem wiling to help people they don't know, except that they will die before they'll let tax money go toward some pizza driver's health coverage.
Hypocrites!
Oklahomans are kind and polite and warmhearted to you, sure, even if you don't believe the same thing they do, maybe look a little different, or happen to be a single woman over 40. But always remember that as they're helping you out, it's on their mind that you will be going to hell. Simple fact. If you're not an Evangelical, you're going to hell. Not all Oklahomans are fundamentalist Christians, but they're all indoctrinated by rightwing media -- the Daily Oklahoman is unreadable. Fox News is the norm. The last time I visited my relatives back in Oklahoma, every one of them had Sarah Palin's book, Going Rogue, and most of them have college educations, even master's degrees. The longer I stay away, comfortable in my very blue big city, the more my home state seems like a foreign country.
It is the galling recognition of a dull superiority that forms behind the acceptance of one fantastic concept after another as a commonplace and the other worldliness of actual things without the grace of fantasy .
I lived in the Deep South for 40 years. AL, MS, TX, TN, LA,SC,NC. I grew up in Southern MO, I have family in OK and KS.
The vast majority of R's in KS, MS, OK, and AL would cheerfully watch Democrats from MA, NJ, and NY be killed in front of them. That includes my brother. Dissing these ought to be the least of the worries for the "blue dots". In AL, it is physically dangerous to be white and vocally pro-Obama. I'll not mention how dangerous it is to be Black and pro-Obama ... being black is enough.
To hell with them. They are NOT nice people.
Failing to criticize the red states just because a few correct-thinking and decent people live there is wrong-headed in the extreme. In essence these states are neo-confederates. Give it to them with both barrels every day all day.
For every dollar the red states send to Washington, they get the buck back- and more. Aren't they ASHAMED to be on WELFARE?
No. They are very proud of "conning the gov" and very very proud of being poorly educated. I grew up there.
We are all in this together. Good, bad, or indifferent, we are all in this together.
Yes, and some need to go through some learnin' a bit more than others. Nice doesn't work.
Whether or not we are all in this together it doesn't matter a lick if they believe whole-heartedly that we should all be tortured to death inquisition style.
And if you really unpack what a desire to condemn someone to damnation and hell-fire is. It's a more socially acceptable way of saying: "I hope you get tortured in all of the worst possible ways for eternity." It's actually a lot more serious than simply wishing a simple death or misfortune.
They're saying they hate someone so much they want nothing more than ceaseless eternal suffering to plague them; and the only thing that keeps them from trying to do that them-self is their belief that God will pick up the slack and do it for them.
If that doesn't give you serious pause for concern about how they regard us; I don't know what will. How do you show compassion towards someone who swears with full conviction to their last breath to do nothing more than take every opportunity to hurt you in the worst possible ways they're allowed to?
can i get an AMEN for Chris?? he hit the nail on the HEAD
Ignorance and political views go together. People seem to separate their belief mind from their task mind. This is due to what they are taught when growing up. If you are taught there is a god and he controls what happens in the world then you tend to believe it. The same goes for politics. Republicans are fed a constant diet of distortions and lies. Ask one to watch Rachael's show daily for a month. I bet you can't get one to watch for two days (and like a drug addict, it takes a while to detox) . There is a huge difference in the minds of conservatives and progressives. The first is by definition, closed minded and can't accept anything outside their smaller world view. The second is more open minded.
What can change this? At a young age (20's), travel far outside their state can help expand their world view. Living in a blue state can help while in school. Outside that, almost nothing less than a hard blow to the head will help. There are always some smart, open minded thinkers everywhere but they are severely suppressed in red states. I've lived in the south and people there are quite friendly if you don't take exception to their religion or politics. But friendly only counts until they vote to give the rich tax breaks, de-fund Planned Parenthood, remove birth control (personhood) or insist Social Security is unconstitutional. Respect is earned while stupidity is forever.
to the suppression of "smart, open-minded thinkers" in RED states, i believe this is like the modern day inquisition. ignorant people are not just a scourge to their own existence but a threat to the progress and safety of all that is good- i propose a separation line between them and the rest of the world be installed for the good of humanity-
I lived and worked in Oklahoma for two years and found the courtesy and kindness that has been mentioned -- but I had also found it where I'd worked before . . . Massachusetts.
My first day on the job I was invited to join their churches by three co-workers. I immediately put my foot in my mouth up to my knee by saying, "I'm an atheist."
I had no idea how it really was . . .
I hear ya, Sister. When I moved to Massachusetts in '09 it was like coming home to cousins I never knew.
Cliff Pfsical: So, in other words, you enjoyed the benefit of those Massachusetts taxes being redistributed to you by the federal government. Aren't you ashamed of being so wealthy while living on welfare?
In my experience, people in very Christian Conservative areas aren't always nice. There are mean and nice people everywhere, and usually it depends on how much you look like/act like them.
I've lived in red states, swing states and blue states. But I gotta say, the worst is being progressive in a red county of a blue state. Conservatives are more hostile in a red county in California than they are in South Carolina. Maybe out of frustration of not having a functional party.
Of God yes! I grew up in Fresno and I've actually BEEN to the Deep South before. Fresno is worse in every way than the South and it has none of the redeemable sense of community like you have there.
The best way to think of the south might be community-minded-authoritarians or populist-authoritarians. There's a very strong bond and good hearted social community there to support you so long as you look and act enough like them.
In Fresno? Hah, fat chance, every person for themselves and it also has the disadvantage of being a blighted desert instead of somewhere with trees and actual greenery. Not to mention the smog that collects in the central valley, making our far-less-populated-than-the-coast area just about as polluted.
Central California embodies every one of the worst stereotypes people have made up about the South. I'm so glad I managed to escape to the coasts. I live in Orange County now and love it.
On the bright side: We of California no longer need to let the deep red parts of the state hold us back anymore. Dem supermajority FTW! :D
Oklahoma is the reddest state in the country by virtue of the fact that it is the only state that did not have a single county go blue in at least the last two presidential elections. Utah and Texas had blue counties...OK did not.(They haven't gone for a dem president since LBJ)......but
36% of those who voted in the state this last election voted for Obama. That is not so much a dot as a hue.....
I live here because I have to. I take care of my elderly mother who has lived here most of her life, has most of her relatives here ect...If I could afford to move her, I wouldn't....because she wouldn't go.
We don't all get to pick where we live.
Oklahoma went red for the same reason the rest of the south did. The dem majority defected en masse after the 1964 civil rights act was passed. LBJ wasnt kidding when he said ..."we just lost the south for 40 years".....he just didn't know it would be forever...
I am so sorry---that you live in Oklahoma.
Things will never change if we simply sit still as the far right evilgelicals try to force christianity down our throats. We are not a theocracy and I for one will never bow to the zealots and their narrow minded false interpretations of the bible mythology.
I drove through Oklahoma once and saw it as a wasteland with oil rigs rather than trees and was not impressed.
People are people, except when they are not.
So you drove through Oklahoma, didn't see any trees...so the inhabitants aren't people?
I have driven though every state, lived in 10 of them, and wouldn't begin to make a blanket judgement of a place based on what I saw out the car window.
You weren't impressed....who gives a s**t...
Good to see folks standing up for themselves in Norman. This is true. I moved from California to Oklahoma to attend OU and found the people there are on average very warm and friendly. Some of the nicest people I've ever met are Oklahomans. That's why some of the extreme politics going on there don't seem to make sense.
When I was there (late 80s to early 90s) Democrats still had a fighting chance and won statewide elections from time to time. Someone proposing to "outlaw the human consumption of a fetus" would have been laughed out the state.
After a lifetime of being taken for a new Yorker 9why I don't know) I finally moved here a few months ago. The stereotype of the rude impatient New Yorker is far from the truth. People who are usually in close physical proximity have to be considerate, and they are for the most part. We look out for each other in the neighborhood --- people are pleasant to you if you are pleasant to them and there are unwritten rules that almost everyone observes: no staring at strangers, let people off the subway at rush hour, give seats to those who look like they need them, answer tourists questions politely.
A few years ago I was driving in Wyoming with Massachusetts plates. I got some pretty strange looks in motel parking lots.
I think the fundamental divide in this society is a very old one: urban versus rural. But I like to remember that the root word for "civilization" is Latin for "city".
"Pagan" and "heathen," on the other hand, both of which labels I am proud to claim, are both derived from words meaning "country."
Elizabeth Warren, my U.S. senator-elect, is from Oklahoma. Y'all must be doing something right if you produced her.
A lot of wonderful, highly-educated people come from Oklahoma. But, being smart, they then leave.
The main problem with Oklahoma is the corresponding group of lock-step blue staters up in the area of Massachusetts and Maryland and so forth--you know, the ones who will rig a study to prove their own points, rig their classes and then flunk students for not agreeing with their politics (because the students don't have "critical thinking skills"), and who think that a diatribe is scholarly discourse.
When it is unfortunately extremely true that Northeast academic liberals are just as likely to use ugly labels for those with whom they disagree, just as likely to hypocritically assert that they believe in "dialogue" and "tolerance" and then kick out anyone who doesn't lockstep agree, and just as likely to use logical fallacies and pretend that they are "truths" . . . well, it becomes very hard to try and convince people in Oklahoma that scholarship is "objective."
Let's face it--scholarship is no more "objective" than Fox News any more, and the key reason is people up in the Northeast who regard the rest of the nation as something like a bunch of ignorant relatives that they have to take care of because they are too stupid to take care of themselves.
Have you ever noticed that people in the Northeast don't have "regional" views . . . or accents . . . or biases . . . or problems with racism and ethnic hatred (that last one is such a laugh--Philadelphia is as bad as any rural area of Mississippi).
Unless you want to admit that there is a parallel group of people in the knot of the elitist ascot, you really shouldn't say anything about the retaliatory individuals in the buckle of the Bible belt. Though, yeah--I'd do about anything to get out of here. Once the parents have passed away--I'm gone.
For some reason this reminds me of a discussion some years ago when someone from the south asserted that poeple in South Carolina didn't really support Strom Thurmond's racist and reactionary views, they just kept re-electing him to annoy Yankees.
I thought it was bull@!$%#.
And now we're told that "Things won’t change if the rest of the country keeps dissin' us."
Bull@!$%# II.
Oklahomans change only when they decide to and blaming the rampant ignorance and malice on "outsiders" dissing you is just more pathetic excuse-making.
As long as they re-elect James Inhofe, I'll continue to diss them.
It's Christmas day. I've lived in Oklahoma mostly though I've lived in faraway places. It's obvious I'm liberal and a Rachel fan since I'm writing here. Politics are fascinating, but often so frustrating here in OK, and in other 'states' and 'countries'. I don't really care for states, countries, and other artificial boundaries that politics imposes on us human beings. My Christmas wish is for all of us to forget boundaries & patriotism & all prejudices today, at the very least today?
It's Christmas. Santa, are you there?
I'm scratcin my beard, you don't like the way things are in red states? Well I guess that means blue states are utopias.They ought to be calling like Mecca to you, pilgrims from Oklahoma headed to New York or California.That's right,these states are broke.Progressives don't like paying draconian taxes, they just want their neighbor to pay em.You like to have a five year study and throw billions at a problem, then blame someone else for the problem or identify the root cause that was apparent to the layman but hidden from those of little sense.
You want to screw up everything you touch with the reverse Midas touch.You got a lot of rope in the tug of war but we ain't ever gonna stop tuggin till our hearts stop beatin.
I've lived in the rural south for 7 years - moved here from an "up an coming" urban east coast neighborhood. People are exactly the same here as they are there - the funny part is how shocked both groups are when I point that out.
Red state/blue state is about party strength and government structure. There are still political machines that support the livelihood of the county clerk or register of deeds and so on. These are good paying jobs with health insurance in areas that don't have many of those. So if you need to be a Republican or a Democrat to keep that job, you will.
The rural/urban dynamic is far more interesting. People rarely move to rural America - and they haven't for generations. That's the core of the issue. Very few people who are born here have the opportunity to stay and make a living. For many, to succeed - you have to leave.
I live in a large city in a Red State, too. I don't mind anyone dishing MO when it nominates the likes of Todd Akin for Senator. This man was allowed to sneak through as a serious House Rep for 12 years because either the media was scared of the GOP after 911 or the DNC was lazy.
It's only the grassroots (and Howard Dean on occasion) who seems to realize the potential progressive opportunity in states like ours. These nice people in rural areas of red states are ready for something different and more in keeping with their roots. The Republican Party is not nearly as nice as they and Ike were.