nah, games dont desensitize you to killing, because you arent killing anything in video games anymore than you are firing a weapon.
super mario brothers 3 was one of the most successful video games ever, and i dont recall american children killing raccoons and wearing their skin to fly.

I think there is a large number of conservatives who would like to do away with the 1st amendment and bump the 2nd up one.

Current science shows that video games do not actually affect propensity for violence in any meaningful way.

I remember how I felt after beating Super Mario Bros. 3;

I went on a rampage and started stomping all the turtles and mushrooms I could find while wearing a frog suit...

...I was going through a phase.

Of course they can have it both ways. The do it all the time.

"States Rights!"

"Federal Marriage amendment!"

"Intrusive Government!"

"Show me your vagina!"

"Free Speech!"

"Deport Piers Morgan!"

Not to mention:

"God Bless America!"

"We lost the election. We'd like to leave America now."

Hey, C.L.--don't go talking about science. Science has no place in a discussion about mental health, or violence, or dinosaurs, or what revolves around what.

You can just leave your so-called science at the door.

Dave

You forgot the Battle hymn of the republic being played while they defend the right to fly ol' Dixie...

Other countries enjoy violent video games. Other countries have their share of mental illness. Other countries listen to rock 'n' roll music. Other countries have gays and lesbians. Other countries have mindless television programming. Other countries don't impose religion in their schools.

But other countries don't provide easy access to firearms. It's the guns, stupid.

The videogame argument annoys the heck out of me. More knee jerk blame from people. Why does everyone act like there isn't a history of violence in this country? Other countries play the same games and watch the same music as us and they do not have this violence. Did Bonnie and Clyde have video games? No. ... we have a history of nutjobs for some reason...and all the idiots want to act like its the availability of guns or video games....or lack of god...or too much god.... Stop acting like this is some new phenomenon.

There's entirely too much glamorizing of guns in this country, and that's largely due to the NRA. The Tea Party also picked up on that and expanded it to the nth degree.

Recall all the campaign events that featured firing various weapons for those attending? The "Don't retreat, reload!" (Palin) and "Second Amendment rights," (Sharon Angle), and a host of other weapon references for previous campaigns? Have you seen the Bushmaster ads, "Get your man-card reissued"? How about the events featuring and celebrating an audience armed with assault rifles and holstered weapons?

The gun has been portrayed as patriotic, a sign of being a rebel, toughness, and heck, even hinting at increased penis size and testicular growth conveyed by gun ownership and public display of a weapon.

If one wants to blame video games, we also need to acknowledge the entire culture, not just parts of it that seem most convenient.

I agree this is a canard to distract public discourse from the central issue- which in my view is whether we have the political will to address the mechanics of gun violence. Wow- there is a high correlation between numbers of guns in a society and gun violence. Who would have thought?

It's time for a ban not just on weapons capable of a rate of fire greater than 1 every 2 seconds, and capacities greater than 6 shots. We need a national database not just of annually re-registered weapons, but the people authorized by the owner to possess them.

The cynical observation it is very much in the political interests for Gun Manufacturerers and their puppet the NRA to attempt to shift the debate to examination of the psychological causes of violence. There are two advantages

• The studies are easily manipulated, making it tempting to use think tanks as part of a PR campaign
• The losers in such a battle- Hollywood and Silicon Valley, are not exactly known as staunch GOP supporters.

If it is true that there is not very much science bolstering Noonan's memes, such positive findings could be fairly quickly funded. It is fair to note there are plenty of studies linking consumption of types of violent pornography with sexual assault. So there are plenty of researchers interested in going after the hypothesis of a linkage of violent fantasy with violent acts.

At the root of this is the problem with the statement that "there is no science" boltering the claim that video games are linked to violence. This sort of "science"- is not a hard science like physics or chemistry- This is "social science" utilizing statistics look for correlations which can suggest causation. But at best, such correlations never can prove causation. It's worse because the problem domain limits the kind of tests that can be morally conducted. So researchers regardless of their bias have to mine existing statistics from "unclean" data, and the big game will be the assumptions used to isolate other contributing causal factors. A gun manufacturer inspired study has the problem that the overall stastical trend has been a reduction in US violent crime since 1993- the same time these sorts of violent simulation games became technically possible on computers. There are multiple causal factors influencing violent crime, and it is legitimate- if not the central task- to isolate them. To increase the likelihood of a causal relation, the study must go after elimination or adjusting for these other variables which have contributed both positive and negative influences.

This is why I claimed such studies can be easily manipulated for media management purposes.

It is a great shame, because I believe our society needs to confront more directly the psychological and cultural forces behind our pathological drives for violence, sex and drugs. Typically such examination is dismissed as Psycho Babble by members of the media- and that is a great shame.

Blaming the NRA is ignorant as well. Acting like there were no gun deaths in this country before the NRA. Name one period in this country where homicides weren't being committed by guns alone....

Apparently you are ignorant of how dramatically the gun violence statistics went down in australia after serious gun control measures were put in place. There have been zero massacres for example since they banned military style weapons in 1997. In the decade before that, they had 11 such massacres. So really, your point is in fact ignorant.

Do you believe it is equally ignorant to regard the NRA as is anything other than a shill for gun manufacturers?

This is capitalism. They want to sell more guns and gun control would put a big dent in profits. It's fair for them to make their case, and spend money through the NRA to make it seem like a popular movement.

But the fact is that most NRA members support the idea of gun control measures. Regarding concealed carry permits, according to the Frank Luntz study:

• 74 percent of NRA members believe such owners should only be granted permits who have completed gun safety training.
• 68 percent of NRA members believe such owners should only be granted permits who do not have prior arrests for domestic violence.
• 63 percent of NRA members believe such owners should only be granted permits who are 21 years of age or older.
• 75 percent of NRA members believe such owners should only be granted permits who have not committed any violent misdemeanors.

Is it also ignorant to point out these inconvenient facts?

Is it ignorant to act like guns are the only source of violence? Is it ignorant to act like crazy people don't hurt others regardless of the tool they use? Is it ignorant to act like banning guns will stop people from losing hope in life with our political system in shambles and the news constantly telling us how little our elected officials actually do for us? Is it ignorant to act like our society has no bearing on how crazy people act but guns are all the blame? Is it ignorant to believe that taking guns away from sane law abiding citizens will keep you safer? Is it ignorant to believe criminals follow gun laws at all???????

You tell me since you know so damn much

Stop speaking nonsense.

Wings aren't the only reason that planes fly, but if you remove them from a contraption there is good reason to believe you have reduced its air worthiness. Yet gun nuts seem to have trouble with this logic.

So what is the problem with doing annual psychological tests on those registered to possess an owner's gun, or banning 100 round drums?

Is it ignorant to claim that because we can't stop gun violence 100% we shoud, therefore, do nothing? Actually that seems more stupid than ignorant, but whatever, the argument is totally devoid of any kind of logic or thought.

John,

I never said the NRA doesn't lobby and try to make money for gun companies...i agree with that 100 percent. But i am not living in a delusional world where i think bad things will stop happening if we take away a tool from someone. And you can quote austrailia all you want. It is two totally different situations...not everyone was allowed to own a weapon before that....only certain groups. England would be more reasonable comparison.

The point i was makeing was acting like this violence we experience is nothing that appeared out of no where with the appearance of the NRA....hell..or even with the appearance of guns....humans have killed each other since we could use tools. Serial killers, mass murderers, people keeping others hostage for decades.........you can ban whatever you want....and you can be one of those that say... "See...gun deaths went down" while ignoring the fact that bludgeoning deaths went up (as an example). People are evil. Plain and simple....you take away guns...they will build bombs....you take away tools for that...they will serial kill.....anything to get attention and create fear.

You seem to think that Australia is different because our constitution prevents these measures. We also have the right of free speech but it is not unrestricted. Examples: laws against slander, inciting a riot, yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Or do you argue that the right to bear arms overrides all others in America? That Australian but not American children possess a right to go on living?

Maybe you could explain your claim how facts about Australia's success in eliminating massacres don't matter.

I do not believe that the right to bear arms overrides others....i actually believe free speech should be unrestricted. I do believe it is telling that the right to bear arms is 2nd only to free speech. I do get agitated when people try to read into the words of the 2nd ... IE "well it says well regulated militia...that isn't the average person" All you have to do is google founding fathers quotes on 2nd amendment to realize they believed everyone should be allowed to bear arms.

Sorry for delay...hadn't been able to log on in a while.

Sorry, but I really don't think so. Each generation has had it easier than the previous one (generally speaking) and they all make this claim about the one that succeeds them.

These are mentally unstable people with easy access to devastating weapons. Our choice, thus far, has been to maintain the access to the weapons and restrict access to mental health care.

Could we be any more stupid?

I agree with Dave here. To be quite honest I am not mentally stable, I have easy access to guns AND fps games are some of my favorites, however, I was lucky enough to get the help I needed early and have been able to afford my medication (due only to medicaid) and have therefore never actually got to the breaking point. A lot of the violence could be stopped with better (or any) access to mental health care - if it saved my peers then it seems to be a good solution, no?

Are you saying you get aroused over violent media?

Nah. It just makes him polish his gun faster.

Tombisson,

excellent analogy, in my opinion.

i agree.

some people may have a perpetuance for violence, however that might occur-through genetics, a birth defect or through how they were nurtured as children. if exposed to the right trigger (violence through video games, or being beaten) , it may bring out a violent reaction in the child, one that lies dormant for years until it is finally expressed.

not everyone will react this way, but obviously some will, in my opinion.

So Tombisson, to further your analogy:

Violent movies and Games lead to more viloence and killing

Therefore

Pornography leads to rape.

What part of the logic did I get wrong, because I'm pretty sure your thesis is pretty slim.

And watching mecha anime leads to giant robots. Don't forget how My Little Pony causes more little kids trying to breed unicorns and turn into magical horseys.

If anything, playing violent games prevents real violence.

Billiards, the universal evil!

Katherine...

Not Billiards... POOL!

Why sure I'm a billiard player,
Certainly mighty proud I say
I'm always mighty proud to say it.
I consider that the hours I spend
With a cue in my hand are golden.
Help you cultivate horse sense
And a cool head and a keen eye.
Never take and try to give
An iron-clad leave to yourself
From a three-reail billiard shot?
But just as I say,
It takes judgement, brains, and maturity to score
In a balkline game,
I say that any boob kin take
And shove a ball in a pocket.
And they call that sloth.
The first big step on the road
To the depths of deg-ra-Day--
I say, first, medicinal wine from a teaspoon,
Then beer from a bottle.
An' the next thing ya know,
Your son is playin' for money
In a pinch-back suit.
And list'nin to some big out-a-town Jasper
Hearin' him tell about horse-race gamblin'.
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no!
But a race where they set down right on the horse!
Like to see some stuck-up jockey'boy
Sittin' on Dan Patch? Make your blood boil?
Well, I should say.
Friends, lemme tell you what I mean.
Ya got one, two, three, four, five, six pockets in a table.
Pockets that mark the diff'rence
Between a gentlemen and a bum,
With a capital "B,"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!

I shouldn't read Maddow Blog and work at the same time - you people make me laugh.

And laughing results in a coughing fit right now, so it's doubly bad!

Ya Got Trouble

We live in a society made up of greedy self centered people who were taught that only they and their well being mattered. It got real bad after a soap salesman elected president fed into their greed by telling them it didn't matter how they got ahead all that mattered was they got ahead and whoever got in their way needed to be destroyed because it was the American way. Just ignore that for 200 years it was people working together that created the country they hate so much, it was individuals working alone that created the country in their delusional land, a LIE as there were no such people ever, those that tried to go it alone died.

Your assertion is completely untrue. In Switzerland, Finland, Sweden etc. gun ownership per capita is quite high because hunting is a big pasttime. But they regulate weapons, they require people to be adequately trained in their use, and so forth. Therefore in general gun deaths are very low. The 2nd Amendment does have the words "well-regulated" in it for a reason.

Many countries do not allow "self defense" as a reason to purchase weapons. You can buy guns for target shooting, skeet, hunting, and so forth. Our insane insistence on Wild West OK Corral shootouts is a huge problem.

Heller specifically says we can regulate firearms ala the handful of countries you mention, but that isnt' the kind of regulation talked about on the left. Many gun control advocates want a total ban. A total ban is no longer possible.

Years ago a famous liberal gun control advocate and pundit shot a home invader. His shooting was totally justified under the self defense doctrine, but use of the pistol was probably illegal under the Washington DC ban, pre Heller. He was caught with his liberal pants down. I guess his thinking was gun control is good when I am selling newspapers to the rubes but not for me when my ass is on the line. There is plenty of hypocracy to go around.

Obviously, that "famous liberal gun control advocate" wasn't for a total ban -- just like the majority of gun control advocates.

Now, I know some people want to be able to shoot 30 to 100 times without reloading. Some people also want to be able to go out drinking and then drive themselves home. Some people would like to be able to smoke at their desk at work. But, sometimes -- for the good of society as a whole and the protection of other people -- you don't get to do what you want.

And that's a decision that should be made by the majority, not by special interest groups like the NRA.

some people would also like to use "stand your ground" as an excuse to stalk and shoot and kill a (african american) teenager, or if the music is too loud and you feel threatened by that.

how much easier do we have to make it?

Ron B.: Why do you continue to beat the drum about gun confiscation, when literally nobody in any kind of power is calling for or talking about that? It's all about "liberals" and paranoia to you folks, when the actual truth is that we as a country need a reasonable dialog, not name calling. Are your guns the bottom line, the whole enchalada...

We can whine and moan about private citizens owning guns, but there isn't ANYTHING that can happen to take that away. The only responsible (reasonable) way to do lower meaningless killing (drive by's, mass shootings etc.) is to limit the magazine clip and deem automatic weapons illegal (for citizens). Everyone can say that citizens owning guns is horrid, but it is a RIGHT given to us. You can't just take that away. Remember, we are a country founded on citizens owning and using guns (Revolutionary war). Without the MILITA (the citizens, NOT the military), we would have never won.

Amber, booze was banned by the Constitution at one point, too. The right to own guns absolutely can be taken away. There's a process in place to alter the Constitution.

The point here, however, is that PEOPLE AREN'T ASKING FOR THAT. So running around ranting about OMG!MY!RIGHTs makes you look foolish two times over.

NAZI gun control is a myth. They did not need gun control to maintain power. What gun control Germany had was enacted five years before Hitler came to power and it was not a total ban.

Even fully automatic assault rifles will have little effect against a modern army/air force. Just ask the Kurds or Shia in Iraq.

I have man shoulders - so bare arms isn't so hot on me :(

I dunno, guys all over find Linda Hamilton and Sigourney Weaver hot. If you have strong arms, show 'em off!

KL...

I'm sure you know how to dress for maximum effect...

But, sometimes, you just have to grin and bare it...

Warning... This song, although humourous and not too terribly risqué, may be inappropriate in the workplace.. Thus, I will include the lyrics for you, but I do suggest you give it a listen when you can...

VIKKI DOUGAN

by "Cal Grigsby"
(Malvina Reynolds and Lou Gottlieb) 

REFRAIN:
Vikki turn your back on me
Come on darlin' just for me
'Cause there is something so appealin',
that your eyes are not revealin'!
Oh, Miss Dougan, you're for me!

Other girls who approach me,
Are beautiful, gorgeous and gay!
But you're so gosh darn more inviting
Going the other way!

REFRAIN

Vikki baby you move me,
In those far-out clothes!
But don't it get chilly flyin' home at night
When that cold cold tail-wind blows?

REFRAIN

Vikki baby, you rock me,
Without you I'm bereft!
I'm hypnotized by those crazy eyes,
And that callipygian cleft!

REFRAIN

Vikki baby, we're older,
My get up and go is gone
But when I see you walking down the street
Them buns still turn me on!

REFRAIN

David, thanks again for making me giggle.

This is either made up to make a point, or you have some potentially serious mental issues with reality. You thought maybe you were being sneaked up on, but you didn't notice that you were preparing to defend yourself with your finger?

Parody, but poorly done. It's all in the details, Bob.

The game was Wolfenstein. In this game, you didn't fight monsters. Well, not literal ones. You played as an American WWII soldier figting Nazis. And there were no creaking doors. They sounded like metal doors sliding on a metal track and made a loud clang when they shut.

Besides, any decent player knew you had to fire a shot to alert them to your presence and used that to their advantage. If he'd have really internalized the gameplay, he'd of been firing his finger gun at the door and waited for the cleaning lady to come to him. Duh.

I'm trying to decide if this is BS, or a real story with fuzzy details.

Once I was watching an episode of Doctor Who, and they used a door-opening sound effect that was essentially identical to a door-opening sound effect from the DOOM series.

I IMMEDIATELY jumped up into the center of the room in a crouch, and waved my hands in front of me like I was holding a gun. Why I did that, I have no idea, because I played DOOM with a mouse!

I personally find this funny more than anything else, though. There are no DOOM sound effects in real life, and I wouldn't have the first idea how to hold or fire a gun.

You don't keep up on the Supreme Court do you? We aren't going to have gun laws like Australia. We have to deal with the Constitution we have not the one you want.

Australia's gun laws are probably a bit too harsh for the U.S. But they do strongly limit capacity: you can't have clips that hold more than 10 bullets, or 5 for shotguns.

Yes, a crazy person can swap clips, but who on earth needs a 100 round ammo DRUM? A drum that I can buy via virtually any gun store or gun show? And clips do cost money. Most of us that shoot have maybe two clips per gun, one in the weapon and a spare. This limits the number of shots you can get off before you have to reload a clip.

Where Australia goes totally nuts is in restricting paintball guns, air pistols, low-power airguns, and single shot antique or reproduction muzzle-loaders, for the love of mike!

Review the actual Australian policy. Wiki actually has a good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Current_Australian_firearm_laws

As a matter of fact, I do keep up with Supreme Court decisions... especially when it comes to the the 2nd Amendment. Something has to give here.

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/21/167814684/australians-urge-u-s-to-look-at-their-gun-laws

Gerald Laughner was taken down while he was swapping clips. Would it had been better if he'd had to do so after 10 shots instead of 30.

You're an idiot if you don't think so.

The same people who make the argument that it's not worth doing because it "Wouldn't stop all the killing" are, for the most part, the same F'n idiots who want to ban abortion because "even on life saved is worth it".

Again, their attitude, time and again, is "fetuses yay!", "actual breathing, living and loving children, eh..."

Sorry, mn2mx, the science does not agree with you on video games and violence.

It's not like we haven't seen the exact same knee-jerk reactions before.

Most of us aren’t old enough to recall the huge Comic Book Debate of the 1950s, but the arguments used then against “crime and horror” comic books are nearly identical to those being trotted out about video games today. A great example is the New York statute that is partially quoted in the Supreme Court case Winters v. New York (1948):

“Whereas, we believe that the destructive and adventurous potentialities of boys and adolescents, and of adults of weak character or those leading a drab existence are often stimulated by collections of pictures and stories of criminal deeds of bloodshed or lust so massed as to incite to violent and depraved crimes against the person; and

Whereas, we believe that such juveniles and other susceptible characters do in fact commit such crimes at least partly because incited to do so by such publications, the purpose of which is to exploit such susceptible characters; and

Whereas, such belief, even though not capable of statistical demonstration, is supported by our experience as well as by the opinions of some specialists qualified to express opinions regarding criminal psychology and not disproved by others; and

Whereas, in any event there is nothing of possible value to society in such publications, so that there is no gain to the State, whether in edification or enlightenment or amusement or good of any kind; and

Whereas, the possibility of harm by restricting free utterance through harmless publications is too remote and too negligible a consequence of dealing with the evil publications with which we are here concerned…”

You could easily mistake this as a jeremiad against video games today.

Oddly, you're sorta wrong. They NRA licenses their name to video game developers. So they do make some money from games.

NRA Gun Club (the reviews are worth a read)
NRA Varmint Hunter (ode to Mitt, mayhaps?)

You're only sorta wrong because these games are awful and no one buys them. So the bulk of their profits is definitely from gun manufacturers.

As an older gamer, I say bravo.

bravo 1 |ˈbrävō|

exclamation

used to express approval when a performer or other person has done something well : people kept on clapping and shouting “bravo!”

noun ( pl. -vos)

1 a cry of bravo : bravos rang out.

2 a code word representing the letter B, used in radio communication.

ORIGIN mid 18th cent.: from French, from Italian, literally ‘bold’ (see brave ).

bravo 2

noun ( pl. -vos or -voes)

a thug or hired assassin.

ORIGIN late 16th cent.: from Italian, from bravo ‘bold (one)’ (see brave ).

JAS...

"Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards."

LOL! I haven't thought of that game in ages!

Of course, nowadays in the world of The Sims and other more realistic role-playing, sexual simulation has reached the heights of being able to model avatars based on whoever you like, getting it on with whoever you like, in any way that you like...

Uhhh, wat?

There is sex in The Sims, pixelated to the point that you can't see anything or hidden under covers.

FS...

Try googling "Pandora Sims", or "Red Light Center", but only if you are not offended by adult material... I'd rather not post direct links...