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It's been about a week since House Speaker John Boehner's "Plan B" fiasco left congressional Republicans divided and directionless, and since then, there hasn't been so much as a hint of progress in the larger fiscal process. With looming deadlines just a few days away, there have been literally no efforts to even try to reach a resolution.
That's about to change. The Senate is already back in session, and House members will start reaching DC soon for a Sunday session. What's more, for good or ill, we'll at least see the appearance of movement among top officials today.
President Obama will meet with Congressional leaders on Friday, and House Republicans summoned lawmakers back for a Sunday session, in a last-ditch effort to avert a fiscal crisis brought on by automatic tax increases and spending cuts scheduled to hit next week.
Republicans expressed a flicker of hope Thursday that a deal could still be reached to at least avert most of the tax increases on Jan. 1, to prevent a sudden cut in payments to medical providers treating Medicare patients and to extend expiring unemployment benefits. But both parties' leaders said time is running out.
"Here we are, five days from the New Year, and we might finally start talking," said Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Senate Republican leader.
McConnell's chest-thumping is, of course, misplaced. Obama has been talking quite a bit to Boehner, offering up all kinds of concessions, in the hopes of reaching an agreement. When they got close, the Speaker walked away and spent critical time on a pointless p.r. stunt. McConnell, meanwhile, has been hiding, and when he has piped up, he's demonstrated unnerving confusion about the basics of the debate.
Regardless, today there will at least be an in-person conversation among officials who are, at least in theory, in a position to reach a deal.
The next question is pretty straightforward: what is it, exactly, these folks have to talk about?
Putting aside all the posturing, press releases, and finger pointing, the fact remains that nothing has changed except the calendar. Republicans still don't intend to compromise, don't want to present specific ideas to further their own goals, and don't intend to act until the president negotiates with himself, coming up with a plan filled with preemptive concessions, predicated on guesses as to what GOP officials might find acceptable.
So what's the point of today's White House chat? I suspect one of two scenarios is true:
1. Participants have been very quietly working out the details of a compromise, and today's meeting is about sealing the deal while working out a legislative strategy. They're closer than is publicly known, and today, they'll try to work out the final details.
2. Everyone knows failure is inevitable, and there's no way a deal can be reached with Republican extremists, especially with so little time remaining, so today's meeting is motivated by theatrics -- they'll go through the motions so no one can say they didn't at least try to sit in a room and talk to one another.
If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the latter.
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Yep. The second door.
Think about it. "Who benefits the most from going over the cliff?"
Hmmmmmmmm.
Could this have truly been the President's and Democrat's intention the entire time?
Everybody wins. The Democrats get the revenue they want and the Republicans get to come back and vote for a tax "Cut" so they can avoid a challenge in their primaries. The rest of the numbers are going to be tweaked and life will go on.
Well, it seems the three of you are smarter than our elected 'representatives.'
Why am I not surprised?
And the bloggers, pundits and news-drools will get to argue who's to blame all the way to the 2014 mid-terms.
It is desirable to not reach a deal or to create a piss poor deal. The result would be economic hardship and hopefully leading to civil unrest. This will be just the catalyst necessary for martial law and gun confiscation. A disarmed public is an obedient public.
I wouldn't be too certain of the second door. Never underestimate the flexibility of Obama's spine. There's even question whether it exists or not.
The President had better not make a bad deal and give away the store. No deal is way better than a bad one.
I don't see any winners here if they strike a half as#ed deal to avoid the cliff.
If I were Obama, I'd say, "No deal" if it doesn't cover the debt ceiling.
I don't believe there ever was a 'cliff'. Congress can reinstate both Medicare payments and unemployment insurance after Jan. 1 and reap some political benefits. Payroll taxes can be refunded with this year's tax returns. Automatic budget cuts to Defense and tax increases on the wealthiest Americans were what the president wanted anyway. So yes, I believe this show is basically a public relations move on everyone's part and there will be no substance to the talks.
Door Number Two for sure. Unfortunately.
The fiscal cliff negotiations are playing like a broken record. After having nearly brought the nation and our economy to its knees on numerous other occasions, the extreme wing of the Republican Party is intent on wrecking America yet again, throwing tens of millions of hard working folks off the "cliff" in order to protect billionaires. When is it enough? when will saving millionaires some pocket change not be seen as a virtue among the Tea Party and the GOP elite? How can our government continue to function when a large chunk of it has no qualm with bringing our country to the precipice of disaster every few months or so? - progressive
You can thank the Stenographer Corps for most of it .
On one side Faux Nooze spinning lies , while the mainstream gives us :
Republicans say world is flat , Democrats disagree, we present both sides
The activist, #2
Our government will remain disfunctional thanks to the T-Party in congress. They are pledged to make trouble and avoid raising necessary revenue. They will bankrupt us.
They were put in congress to disrupt. They are only "doing their job".
We, the people, have been left out of the equation. This is a long term situation, too. They are impervious to the will of the people. They are still determined to undermine the recovery due to their hatred of President Obama.
Picture Boner and Murtle the turtle leading their party past the quicksand. Next picture, two hats in the quicksand. The venal and the craven supposedly political leaders, without an ounce of statesmanship between the two, are pretending to be public servants. Who sucks at the gov't teat more than do nothing career politicians?
If it's #1, then it's a bill passing in the House with Dems plus a few GOP moderates.
If it's #2, we'll probably know by midday today.
Not that Obama is likely to see this, but once again, here are my three short phrases for Obama to repeat as needed:
1) “Nothing’s agreed on until everything is agreed on.”
2) “Because we didn’t arrive at a deal, the concessions in my last offer are off the table. My original proposal is my only offer on the table at this time.”
3) “I await a concrete counterproposal from Congressional Republicans, listing specific spending cuts and tax hikes that a majority of their caucus is ready to vote for."
i hope to god that he goes back to his original proposal. like you said, it should reset if they don't like any of the ideas.
His original offer was stupid. His compromise offers were even stupider. He needs to:
- insist on Clinton era top marginal rates NOW (or higher for negotiating purposes),
- tie continuation of all the other Bush tax cuts to economic growth and when the economic regains enough steam, those tax rates return to Clinton era levels,
- payroll tax cuts continue till the economy regains steam,
- unemployment insurance till the economy regains steam,
- legislation to kill the debt ceiling,
- and more for negotiating room.
At least. Obama won the election. Act like it. And begin to reverse the 30+ years of failed and stupid conservative economic ideas and policies.
Sometimes I think the President has to re-convince himself (or maybe the voters) that the Teapublicans are not negotiating in good faith, so he throws in an idea that has no possibility of flying (like changing the SS cost-of-living adjustments) just to make a point and watch people walk away from the table.
Fortunately for the idle mind(s) of the contemporary right , which laughably calls itself "Conservative" , (!) , the difference between murder and suicide is that the ardent adoration of mad schemes of which the contemporary right , in their own minds , go out on top . Pure as the driven snow doing the heavenly bidding of their very own representatives here on Earth . The martyrdom process has already begun with the demotion of two teepeeing acolytes from the ranks of apostate J Boehner house committee's .
Time to get those seventy , or so , victims ready in heaven for the suicide bombers of American "exceptionalism" reward .
The difference being the grim teepees who faithfully execute a so called "rationale" carrying a scent of wholesale prices for a vial from the bespectacled sainted chalk dust of a Glen Beckian style of "Fear mongering science" . The economic freight such a framework has as its focus , and the hopeless tangle of at best eccentric , to an increasingly diabolical strategy & ideology , leaves "grim" in the dust along with concept of good faith negotiations . The glib expression found in "Death for thee and riches for me !" bumper sticker gems contributes to the fear of voicing objections as worse than useless . A focus for the continuing class warfare strategy of income redistribution that is literally equal to a murderous intent .
So suicide bombers of the Gingrichian right continue their inexorable rise as the zombie party of brain epicure . Brains ...
Perhaps they're planning to stage an intervention for Boehner. They can target his delusion about getting a bill passed in the House and retaining his speakership, or they can go after something much easier to deal with, like his drinking problem.
I think to get a bill, Boehner will need to be the Speaker of the whole house (not just the majority of the majority) and McConnell will have to agree not to fillibuster. In other words, let's give real bi-partisan democracy a chance.
HAHAHAHAHA! you're funny.
#8 ROTFL!
50,000 comedians out of work and you're trying out for the job?
The "cliff" is great. Everything good will transpire after it. Wait and see!
Repubs will not vote for a tax increase..period...so the "fiscal bungy-jump" will conclude after Jan. 3...so Repubs can vote on a "tax cut"...Boehner will bring up a vote on the Senate's July bill, Pelosi will get the 218 votes...crisis over...though it's stupid reasoning...the media is giving this story too much fuel on the preverbial fire....chill..
Can President Obama use executive order to raise the Debt limit?
He doesn't have to. The 14th Amendment, Article 4, to the constitution says: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. So according to the Constitution, the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. Any bill that has been passed and signed MUST be paid.
Exactly, and every congressman who plays this game should be arrested for treason, since they have willfully disregarded their oaths of office to uphold the constitution.
Ned Carter: #11.2
Exactly. I know they are going to cause trouble, too, when the debt ceiling comes around. These T-Party people are rabid in their ability to make the country disfunctional.
It is their "Raison d'etre", their mission, their goal in life.
The question is, how long will establishment Republicans let the Tea Party destroy any chance of their party every gaining support of the majority of voters?
For the good of the nation and their own party, non-TP GOP members of the House should team up with the Dem's to elect a new Speaker and get stuff done. Someone who can insure primary challenges to those causing trouble.
Speaker Bloomberg, anyone?
Thereby sacrificing their careers for the good of the Nation.
Exactly what are the career prospects of rats on a sinking ship?
To the Cliff...!
Don't forget that if we go off the cliff, we land in a completely new policy world !
So the Democrats don't have to be bound by any deal they made before the new policy world comes into effect. It's 2013 and the Democrats will be able to propose tax cuts and policy changes based on the new tax and spending baseline, not the baseline that we have now !
So, first on the agenda, a 4 Trillion dollar tax cut !
Second on the agenda, a responsible package of spending cuts !
Third on the agenda, let the Republicans oppose an increase to the debt ceiling. Let the TeaTaliban be exposed for what they really are, destroyers of government, merchants of chaos and fear. Besides, The President would instruct the Secretary of the Treasury to issue special purpose Bonds, Bernanke would buy them in a picosecond and the Supreme Court wouldn't intervene as it is obviously Constitutional under the 14th Amendment !
Sure, it could cause a temporary shock to the economy. But as soon as the economy realized that the US was good for our money regardless of what the TeaTaliban tries to do, it would be better for everyone in the long run.
Stay strong, my friends...'the cliff' is our greatest opportunity in twelve long years....Keep your eyes on the Prize...Hold On...
Does it really even matter, at this point?
We nee to go over the cliff and start new.
I hope the president dones't go a and give in more this will let us know if he is going to let the Republicans run this country we need youto take Medicare and social secuity off the table it is not an entitlment we pay for it. he broke his promise to the people and that is one of the main issue that he was voted in for.
The president needs to get tough with the republicans at this point. Place the Senate leaders and Congressional leaders in QUORUM and lock them in a room with cots and everything that they need EXCEPT cell phones, computers and keep thier assitants just outside the doors in case of emergencies. NO MEDIA ACCESS UNTIL A SOLID AGREEMENT IS STRUCK! Boehner is using the media to politically assassinate any republican that supports the president's plan! Whomever leaves is in contempt and should be arrested and do 10 days in jail. Surround Capitol Hill with the National Guard! We need to treat Boehner's disdain for the will of the American people as a kind of political "coup d'etat". This is the only way democrats and moderate republicans can get over the stone wall created by Boehner. If we go over the fiscal cliff our country's credit rating will again be devalued and we will scare off any foriegn investment that we desprately need in order to offset the trade deficit with China and create American jobs!
WHY DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND THIS?
There's a shortage of balls and brains in DC.