Associated Press
It took considerable effort, and it's filled with provisions that are already drawing plenty of criticisms, but Senate leaders and the White House have reached a bipartisan agreement on the looming fiscal deadlines that have been the subject of months of controversy.
Of course, the deal may be finished, but that doesn't mean it will be approved, and it certainly doesn't mean the entire process will be completed in the next hour.
Furious last-minute negotiations between the White House and the Senate Republican leadership on Monday secured a tentative agreement to allow tax rates to rise on affluent Americans, but the measure was not going to pass in time for Congress to meet its Dec. 31 deadline for averting automatic tax increases and spending cuts deemed a threat to the economy.
While some senators pushed for a quick vote on legislation to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, the House was not expected to consider any deal until Tuesday at the earliest, meaning that a combination of tax increases and spending cuts would go into effect in the first days of 2013. If Congress acts quickly and sends a deal to President Obama, the economic impact could still be very limited.
Vice President Biden, who played a central role in the talks, is meeting with Senate Democrats now, in the hopes of securing a sufficient number of votes. If there's a broad consensus in the caucus, we may yet see a vote in the upper chamber this evening.
Most important are the policies that make up the deal, and it appears to be largely consistent with what we'd heard throughout the day, including lower rates applying to income up to $450,000 and a one-year extension for unemployment benefits.
Of particular interest is what isn't in the package: there's no debt-ceiling increase, no new stimulus spending, and as it turns out, no spending cuts, either. What about the automatic sequestration cuts? The White House wanted a one-year postponement, but only secured a two-month break.
And you know what that means: by the end of February, President Obama and Congress will be expected to reach another agreement on offsetting the costs of the sequester, just as the nation reaches its next debt-ceiling deadline.
But let's not get ahead of ourselves. This deal hasn't passed yet, and we can't get to the next crisis until we've completely moved past this one.
The House is not expected to vote on the Senate deal tonight, and it's unclear how much support the agreement can receive in the lower chamber. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has reportedly extended her support to the compromise, though it may yet prove challenging to cobble together 218 votes between the two parties' caucuses.
House Speaker John Boehner, as best as I can tell, has said very little today and has not yet responded to the Senate breakthrough, though if recent history is any guide, it probably wouldn't much matter what he had to say given how little influence he has in the House.
In other words, taken together, we don't know for certain that this deal will pass the Senate, and to assume that the House will quickly endorse the agreement is, at best, premature.
For now, however, an agreement has been reached in the Senate, and we can expect a vote fairly soon. As for the bigger picture -- who "won" the negotiations, which side's concessions matter more, who'll benefit, what this means for the economy, what this means for the next round of talks -- I'll have more coverage tomorrow.
Update: As of 10:54 p.m., Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he expects a vote before midnight, and he expects the Senate to approve the deal.
Another Update: As of 10:58 p.m., senators still wanted to hear from the CBO about the fiscal impact of the package, and as it turns out, there are still some folks working this evening in the CBO office.
Leave a Comment:
F Biden and his &*^% smoking hand out to McConnell...let this fail!!!!!!
The Dems have a better hand after midnight, WTF is Obama doing clawing back to look as if he's leading when he's caved and played into the wealthy GOP benefactors. $250K, or nothing Obama.
Off topic.
I want to wish all my on-line friends a Happy New Year.
I mean the regular posters here, the liberal/progressive ones. I read your posts every day. Some would think I should "get a life", you-all are my life.
Shooter is on ignore, along with a few others.
Sincerely, Steve Fitt
PS-- a special hello to Seth Owen, BGG.
Okay , Let's get this Straight ; there Is an agreement , but were not sure , and there could be a vote from the Senate before midnight tonight on this agreement that we are Not sure of , but , were not sure , But then there could be a vote on this agreement , that we are not sure of tomorrow , then the Congress will vote on this agreement that we are Not sure of , and If they do not agree with this agreement that we are Not sure of , Well , then we are Just Not Sure ! I Believe that I have this Correct , But I'm Not sure !???? I Think that we have got it now ???
I'm pretty sure we are also really really unsure whether Boehner will have the balls to bring this to the floor for an up or down vote, or whether he will decide to amend it.
Who knows.
This has lots of give aways to the 1%. Capital gains cut from 39 to 20%- that is huge. Also estate tax cuts. It sucks.
Steve. Thank you and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWOZotnFhLA&feature=endscreen&NR=1 - Bruce Springsteen - Hopes and Dreams
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html
John Messerly: "This has lots of give aways to the 1%. Capital gains cut from 39 to 20%- that is huge. Also estate tax cuts. It sucks."
John, I agree it pretty much sucks, especially considering we're over the cliff now. I am confused, however, re the capital gains rate. I thought capital gains were taxed at 15% (before the reset last night), not 39%? Mind you, I think capital gains should be taxed at 39%, since it encourages reinvestment instead of simply sitting on the money as is currently the status quo.
Still no vote or word from the House.
Happy New Year from over the cliff. FANSWATS on Speaker Boehner, Rep. Cantor and Teapublicans!
The current capital gains rate of 15% has been in effect longer than the Clinton rates. To Democrats that means it's temporary. Clinton rates would make it 39.6%, and this deal makes them 20%. Or actually 23.8% with Obamacare tax.
You might want to consider that if you make capital gains 39.6% plus 3.8% equaling 43.4% you can be sure it will be re-invested. Out of the US. When Govt. makes almost as much as you do with no risk, it's time to move the money elsewhere.
I believe Shooter is correct, the capital gains are moving from 15% to 20%.
I believe we should also consider at which tax level people will start to move money out of the U.S. Just something to think about.
shooter if we wanted your opinion we would get it first hand from the same people you get it from. The only problem is we are not that dumb or delusional as to believe them.
What you folks don't seem to understand is just how complete a win this is for Republicans and their 30+ year conservative jihad against the lower and middle class in service of the overlord plutocrats. Absolute, complete total victory.
Obama just gave Republicans their victory over FDR. The dismantling of the 20th century will now start. It'll take some time. But the rightward lurch of the last 30+ years has just accelerated and the problems intentionally caused by the failed conservative economic ideas and policies have accomplished their goals. It will take another 10 - 30 years for Republicans to complete their mission, but it will now be done. There is no stopping it. And you're obsessing over the minutiae instead of seeing the bigger picture is the nail in the coffin. You are part of the problem.
What do most idiotic Americans think is our biggest problem? That's right, deficits and debt. And what do they attribute that to? That's right, spending. And who gets blamed for the spending? That's right, Democrats. And now who will be blamed for not wanting to pay for the spending? That's right, Democrats. And you know why? Because Democrats are about to make the irresponsible Bush tax cuts PERMANENT. That's right, Democrats. Democrats are the ones who will have to vote to make these permanent. And they will. Unbelievable. Do you think tax rates are ever going to be raised? Seriously?
You know that duh mass we have here named Shooter242? That duh mass was just awarded the victory he's always wanted. Guess who gave it to him. That's right, Barack Obama and Democrats. Proud?
You will see. Barack Obama just killed FDR.
You know we all ask for a government that work but you go nuts when they get anything done. You wonder why they don't pass more bills it because people go overboard when they do let it play out.
please read this article http://www.examiner.com/article/marvel-comics-the-politics-of-comics-part-1?cid=db_articles
If you enjoy capitulation getting something done, enjoy the surrender.
You're part of the problem. If there was ever a time to take a stand and turn back the rise of the plutocracy, it was now. But, as ever and always, for a Democrat there's never anything worth truly fighting for and never a time to fight. It's always time to compromise. So in 1980, Republicans start at 0 and Dems at 1. In 1990, Republicans are at 0 and Dems at .5. In 2000, Republicans are at 0 and Dems at .25. In 2010, Republicans are at 0 and Dems at .125. In 2020, Republicans are at 0 and Dems at .06125. Do you see the trend.
Enjoy the world people like you are creating for the people who already have everything and the diminished world you're willing to give to your children. I suppose those future children will love the Democratic cowardice and willingness to "get something done."
Barack Obama just gave Ronald Reagan his victory.
No that happened when Reagan was elected. Really the tea baggers are not something new they are just 90% left over moral majority @!$%#s left over from Reagan. It has been them in the drivers seat of the GOP since Reagan made the mistake of believing he could get their vote and control them. Repeating Reagans lies about democrats is rather amusing at best, everyone seems to forget that the country expect democrats to play by different rules then they expect republicans to play by. It is rather stupid to expect democrats to fight when the country holds them accountable and republicans get a free ride. BTW, it was Reagan that coined democrats weak and cowardly, Reagan lied.
Incoherence is now teaming up with stupidity to rule the day.
Yeah and we can see who it is with the belief that the tea party is something new or that the republicans are doing anything they haven't been doing since 1932. One sure thing about conservatives they have to be drug screaming and kicking into change. Really why don't you wait and see what happens before going into doom and gloom.
My mistake. Dividends got cut from 39.6% to 20%. Capital gains may have gotten cut from 25% to 20%.
Regarding dividends, prior to 2003 they were counted as ordinary income. At the expiration of the cuts, they would have returned to designation as regular income, and for those in the maximum tax bracket, this would return to 39.6%.
Ezra reported that the net Capital gains increase prior to this deal was to be effectively 25% (article). It is not clear if the 20% being reported is the base capital gain rate, or the net rate including the additional factors that Ezra calculated.
Steve, you work too hard! Happy 2013 to you and yours!
I have faith that the House GOP will take careful aim and shoot itself in the foot again. It's one of the few things about which they've become dependable.
No. Democrats will pass it with a few Republicans. Then Republicans will run against Democrats on it in 2014. Sad. Really, really, really sad. I'm embarrassed the people I vote for are such stupid suckers.
Have you all thought about who you're going to blame for the nation's woes now that your #1 complaint has been addressed?
This is going to be interesting.
We already know which side is to blame its the side filled with lunatics that were released from the nut houses by Reagan. You know the ones who destroyed the economy, the ones who borrowed and spent their way into history as well as the ones who created the mess to begin with. The republicans who haven't said no to one wealthy person who had their handout and lobbyists to buy GOP candidates.
Love the name calling.
Actually, look at the debt record since 1940. Both parties do quite well with borrowing and spending their way into history. There are only 6 recorded years where the debt went down instead of up. 1947, 1948, 1951 (Truman-D), 1956, 1957 (Eisenhower-R), and 1969 (Nixon-R). The only Dem Pres to lower the debt and not add to it since 1940 was Truman.
Yikes, another new year troll....
Nah, she's been around for a while! I think she is a "paid" troll, and she always says the same old things - YAWN! Just put her on ignore.
Yeah another history challenged republican puppet. Seems they never learn that democrats have been stuck trying to clean up republican economic messes since 1932.
Once again, love the name calling.
@Donna Yikes... someone bringing up some facts....I must deserve to be called a troll.
Why can't we accept that both parties bear a significant part in this and get down to the business of working together to fix things?
@Once If someone is commenting that the fault for our fiscal issues lies solely with Republicans, why is it a yawn to look at some historical facts?
By the way... I'm not a paid to do this... I just like a healthy debate on issues... too bad that the name calling gets in the way...
"Have you all thought about who you're going to blame for the nation's woes now that your #1 complaint has been addressed?"
Shooter,
I am going to blame people like yourself, people who repeatedly demonstrate that they have no empathy and compassion for other human beings. Their love of money is the driving force in their life.
Tom: You will be spending a lot of time blaming Democrats. Here is a copy ofa post that I put on Ed Schultz's blog...
.I guess that is why Democrats give more money to charities than Republicans....because they have such a greater empathy for the greater society...oh wait...that can't be right, because surveys show that the opposite is true.. Why dont you tell us about why the Democrats are so damn cheap...led by the golden boy Joe Biden who gives about 2% of his income to charity?
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/republican-states-give-more-to-charity-than-democratic-states-cms-19923
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_republicans_or_democrates_give_more_to_charity
http://clearwater.patch.com/articles/whos-more-geneours-republicans-or-democrats
http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/01/07/dataset-of-the-day-who-is-more-generous-republicans-or-democrats/
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/012712-599290-democrats-like-giving-money-from-others.htm
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html
an interesting quote from this last article..."Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227)."... also..."Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood."
So...evidence shows us that Republicans are much more empathetic than Democrats are in giving their time, their money and their blood. It appears your statement is not factually based.
just saying
@ Tom
For some of us, it is not the love of money that is the driving force in our lives. It is possible to be fiscally conservative and want to preserve different programs that are on an unsustainable trajectory.
@ Lisafp
I would agree that there needs to be discussions about what programs are necessary and how much can we afford to spend on them.
The image I see today from this current group of republican politicians, is a group that wants less of everything except protecting the wealthy. They want less, medicare, medicaid, social security, immigration, foreign aid, and environmental protection.
Stormguy: That who gives more to charity canard is the single most inane argument in partisan politics. It's about as germaine as two verses one ply.
@Tom
I see it more as a group of politicians finally fessing up to the American people that all these programs are unsustainable as they currently stand and if we keep authorizing more spending without offsets to pay for it, we're heading in the direction of Greece. Taxing the wealthy more and more does not fix the problem. We need to address spending.
Dude: When an accusation is made that a group of people have no empathy or compassion for their fellow human beings, I think that proof that the group of people do in fact have those qualities and that it can be easily demonstrated is very relevant.
just saying....
Stormguy: Charitable giving is a personal choice often made by people seeking a tax advantage. To compare that with public policy is folly.
You see it as folly, I see it as a way of looking at a person's heart more times than not.
Most people that I know do not give to charity solely in order to get a tax advantage. For most people, it makes no sense to give $100 or $100,000 just to get a 20% - 30% discount on the amount of tax they pay. It would make a lot more financial sense to take the bite on the tax burden and not make any charitable contribution.
Additionally, Tom's comments were directed at Shooter as an individual, not as public policy.
just saying...
Ah yes those poor souls who don't have your morals, manners, and breeding. And yet without people to whom money matters, you wouldn't have a job and Govt wouldn't have tax revenue. You're going to have to reconcile your hatred of successful people, and the fact they are the source of most people's livelihood and all of Govt's tax revenues.
I wish I could see the titanic struggle your brain endures trying to decide whether the need of work and taxes justifies the existence of the moneyed class. Good luck with that one.
Yeah except all shooter is really saying is he wants it handed to him on a silver platter for free. shooter here we go again, business can not exist without customers, you can't get rich if no one wants what you are selling. The rich did not get rich and then built a business, in fact most of the rich got rich by conning others out of their money.
The House should have no later than tomorrow at noon to approve this. If it isn't approved and signed by then, all the Dems' concessions should come off the board and we start negotiating all over again. And this time, lots of stimulus spending, at least a two-year unemployment benefits extension, big increases in the estate tax, and no $400K/$450K threshold for higher tax rates.
Republicans need to realize that deadlines mean something. Once we've "gone over" the nonexistent cliff, there's no reason to give away the store to avoid going there in the first place.
You don't seem to understand. This is what Obama wants. It's that pathetic. The Caveman-in-Chief has caved again. He thinks if liberals are angry, he's done something good. Doesn't matter if wingnuts everywhere are gloating over rolling him yet again.
And it doesn't matter if it's passed tonight, tomorrow, or the 2nd.
Let that sink in.
IIRC, the new Congress is supposed to be sworn in on January 3, and if that's so, the House has until midnight tomorrow (Jan. 2) to approve this deal.
The sequester's been postponed for only two months. So they get to play this game all over again then, only without any Dem leverage on the tax side.
And I'm not even talking about the debt ceiling yet.
Good Lord, this is horrible. Time to call the Congresscritters and tell them to deep-six this deal.
Indeed, tax hikes will be off the table and Democrats will have to deal with spending. Not smaller increases, but actual reduction in spending.
Oh the horror! Heh.
Which is not a problem except republicans don't want to cut spending they want to increase spending on military and more tax cuts for the 2%. Really shooter your song and dance act about cutting spending is a joke because Obama cut spending so did Clinton but every republican since Reagan borrowed and spent their way into history. Thats the fact jack.
@whom
Obama cut spending? A... no... he increased the deficit the first yr in office from .4 trillion to 1.4 trillion and there after it was at 1.2, 1.2 and 1.3 trillion.
Here we go again with the big republican lie. All Obama did was put the cost of GWB's wars on the books. Really still repeat that lie.
That makes no sense... so you are saying that GWB operated the wars for years "off the books" so that the deficits under his watch ran from .157 trillion to .458 trillion and then Obama then put them on the books so that is why the deficits increased massively under his watch. Huh?
You watch to much Fox news that is clear. Here is a clue borrowed money comes with interest and the republicans have been the kings of borrow and spend.
You stereotype and make assumptions.
Here is a bigger clue. If GWB managed to borrow the money and spent up to .458 at his highest deficit level, likely it was a little bit more than borrowing to pay for the same wars that resulted in deficits at 1.412. 1.293, 1.299, and 1.326 (est) trillion under Obama.
Check out the outlays by agency by year. In addition, look into the corporations that received stimulus funds... it's a good idea to actually read where our money goes.
What do you mean if, that is exactly what GWB, GHB, and Reagan did and the GOP kept running away from paying back what they borrowed. Now you are whining that there is a deficit, heres a clue when you start 2 wars and a drug prescription plan you don't go out and give the wealthy 2 tax cuts.
Happy New Year to all the Maddow Blog folks.
And phuck you to Barack Obama.
Yep, too bad you cons couldn't have come up with a better candidate than Mendacious Mitt to offer a choice, Cliff. You really didn't have a better one though, did you?
Oh, and BTW, you guys lost the election.
cliff has a childish outlook on life, one post he is a muti millionaire big business man, the next post he is a lazy bum who retired at the age of 50 because work, his words not mine, was for suckers. cliff likes to project himself onto others and often accuses others of his bad behaviors. Like most kids with bad manners it is best just to ignore him or you will find yourself distracted by nonsense and whines.
Good point, whomitmay. I am ignoring him now. Happy New Year!
There's a reason KKKliff and Hemorrhoid are spry right now. They just won. Barack Obama gave them the victory they've wanted for 30+ years. You might as well understand it. Barack Obama just sold out his supporters, everybody that voted for him, and the future of the country so he could hand Republicans the complete, total victory they've wanted since FDR.
Congratulate the wingnuts for their victory over you, and begin grovelling. That's what Barack Obama has given you. And he's four more years to give the people you despise even more. And he will.
Disgusted: Sad to see you spit in the face of Bernie Sanders with such gusto. I fully respect your opinions, but your comment board hissy fit is overshadowing whatever legit complaints you have with the deal IMHO. Happy New Year...
Anybody that voted for this on the Democratic side is either an idiot without a sense of history or a sap that is willing to sacrifice the long-term huge interests of the country and its people for short-term amelioration of pain that was essentially caused by Republicans. That's right, Republicans caused the pain, and exacted a price from Democrats' long-term objectives in order for Democrats to come to the aid of the pain Republicans caused.
You're one or the other or both of those. I'll let it go unsaid which of those possibilities I believe is the case.
Death, taxes, and bloviators on internet comment boards are the only certainties in life...
Too long those folk in charge would have us know
How worthless we should stay in our condition.
Resolved: the brotherhood of man must grow
Beyond the narrow scope of their ambition.
Too long they'd stifle our given right to vote
To still our voices raised in opposition.
Resolved: the volume of our gathered throat
Shall drown them out and cry out our position.
Too long they've taken 'way our civil rights,
Declaring their rights rise above our own.
Resolved: equality for all must reach new heights
And justice will be dealt for those enthroned.
Our brotherhood, our freedom, our laws, we need
To fight for them 'gainst those who worship greed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=e9GtPX6c_kg&NR=1 - Carol of the bells
From $250,000 up to $400,000 is no big deal. The GOP wanted $1mil.
$150,000 more isn't the end of the world.
Overall, looks like a very favorable bill considering the make up of today's Republican Party. I suspect it will pass the House tomorrow.
The important thing is that the GWB tax cuts ARE GONE for the Grover Norquists of the world and our tax cuts remain.
Thank you Steve Benen for all your hard work and well researched articles each day.
Happy New Year.
Good god you're clueless. But Happy New Year.
Disgusted, you may be clueless (and quit sounding like a frickin' Con - you can disagree politely - we get enough of that kind of crap from the trolls that come here). They are unlikely to pass it, and they will start over. A negotiation means that we will not get everything exactly as we want it, and if you are going to whine every time you don't get your way exactly, you are as bad as the Cons. We need to stick together, otherwise we will fracture like the republicans. We have to be the reasonable ones, and the more reasonable we SOUND, the crazier the other guys will sound. Chill...the Pres is giving his best. We need to call him on stuff, but we don't have to stoop to stupid insults to make a point.
I agree. I would rather change from 250K to 400K than have to take it out of Social Security and Medicare. Of course, Boehner will probably reject this because his cold, hard heart just cannot bear not to stick it to the poor, the elderly, and the sick. We need to elect a democratic majority to both houses in 2014. Then we can change the 400K back to 250K and do some of the other things President Obama talked about doing when he ran in 2008. He has finally learned how to be tough and how to lead. Praise the Lord!
DisgustedWithItAll
It used to be that you could tell something was good legislation because everyone found something in it they were not happy about. That meant a compromise where everybody gave up something. This is what USED TO pass for governing in this country - compromise. Winning by shoving one side's solution down the opponent's throat is the way the voters rejected in November. If Republicans in Congress reject this they can start packing for Oblivion right now but that will not help the unemployed, students frozen out of student loans or anyone else affected by the sequestration cuts. We count our blessings, such as they are, and fight for fairness and justice some more (you thought it would be easy?) each end every day because if there must be a fight 'let it be in my time so my children will know peace' (Thomas Paine).
Whats amazing is the republicans didn't filibuster this bill. But then if they had their first love the military would have faced huge cuts. I guess people forget what happened in the 90's when Newt threw a hissy fit and shut down the government. Public workers lost their credit standing and people who counted on government lost their homes because they were late on the rent, it was them folks who were hurt the most from republican pigheadedness.
They not only did not want to filibuster it , read what mcconnell had to say , his was out right giddy about the wonderful reaganomics GOP bill , he was excitedly happy
It also freezes fed workers pay , and while the well off get permanent tax cuts , the child credit taxes , etc , only get a 5 year extension , who do you think will be in office in 5 years ?
But Obama is for the working class , next joke please
I can't believe you folks. Republicans know they have TOTAL victory. TOTAL. This is their GREATEST victory over Obama, over Democrats, over the safety net. This is their greatest victory in 30+ years. And they know it. This is TOTAL victory for Republicans. And you idiots think Republicans are going to filibuster? You think the House is not going to bring it up and let DEMOCRATS pass their victory for them?The only people who don't understand the totality of the victory are Democrats. Stupid Democrats. They're going to pass the Republicans greatest victory for them!!!
How stupid can some of you people be? As stupid as Obama? Possibly.
They did not get a complete victory it still has to pass the house. Really hysterics about something that has yet to happen is stupid to be honest. It amounts to worrying about the end of the world because stone age people didn't finish a calendar past 12/21/2012.
If it freezes government pay, wonder if that is why congress just got a pay hike, before this takes effect. Or does this freeze affect that also.
This is sad - Obama has been rolled once again less than 2 months after his election. The 450K figure is disgusting. Obviously he was lying when he talked about $250K.
Lets see what he gives away during the coming debt limit debate. It will be amazing if we still have Social Security after his next term in office.
We'll still have Social Security. Of course, if Obama negotiates a few more agreements as he did this one, people won't be able to start collecting it before the age of 95.
Sadly I fear you are right -
Remember the 2010 election where folks didn't bother to vote? Well Obama went a long way to getting that to happen again. When the Dems sell us out - why vote?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlPjxz4LGak - Dire Straits , Money for Nothin'
@mwf
hummmm...
It just seems that when Democrats win the election, there is a "mandate" but when Republicans win the election, it's because folks didn't bother to vote.
I think that the mandate is stop the partisan garbage and figure out how to work together to solve our fiscal issues.
Incidently, for all the left's posturing on 250k being the cut off, it would have been a tough sell for Harry and Nancy.
Once again we get the usual republican projection. Clue, Reagan won election by 50.75% and the republicans called that a land slide victory, Obama won re election by 50.98% of the vote the republicans call that squeaking by.
Actually, I think that both sides are delusional about this.
We are generally a centrist nation, which is why we tend to ping pong back and forth. Each side voted in operates under the mistaken impression that it's all about them, then enough people become irritated with the hubris, and the other side is voted back in.
For the middle, it is frequently about not wanting the other guy...
Lisafp is an idiot. There has been no ping ponging back and forth. And now the rightward lurch is going to become a stampede.
Phuck Barack Obama. Nobody should support him anymore.
Love the name calling, always a rational argument in that.
Don't think of it as name-calling. Think of it as getting the facts out.
You guys give me heartburn. Have a Happy New Year but also spend some time reading a US civics book. We are not in a monarchy. You don't have negotiations with only a list of unmovable demands. Thank goodness none of you is running anything but your mouths...
Yes , movable demands , funny how obama ran on ending bush tax cuts TWICE , and ended up moving upwards every time , he could have moved it down just as easy , according to your point , but he always moves RIGHT , not LEFT , at that is why people can call this BULL @!$%#
And it is a matter of "standing your ground ? " or "looking weak ? " .. can you imagine obama looking strong on any negotiations after this? obama might as well appoint romney as his chief negotiator for the next 4 years , he would probably get dems a better deal
Yes, Obama ran on ending Bush tax cuts... which in the end, isn't substantial as it does little to put our fiscal house in order. It funds the government for 8 1/2 days.
So how vital is it to our economy that he "stands his ground"?
It is vital that we have bipartisan support to address spending. We can't tax our way out of this.
Ed was just on defending this disaster - guess it is time for the pundit class to fall in line and turn their back on everything they are supposed to believe in. Thankfully at least Richard Trumka knows we have been sold out.
It makes me cringe every time Obama says "No ones going to get everything they want" How can he go FORWARD when he's Moonwalking the deal. I thought the US doesn't negotiate with terrorists? Time to call Seal Team Six or a drone strike! I guess we are better of with Obama in office than John McCain but it looks as if it may have not been much of a difference. In 2007 Wall Street put lots of money into Obama's campaign and it paid off for Wall Street big time. Think about it Obama and Geitner go back a ways. Yet Obama wasn't suppose to win against a Senator/POW/Vet/White guy how did ho lose? In a word Palin. Republicans could have won this last Presidential election but a few rich guys picked Romney the Robot and all the money in the world couldn't get him in and didn't. Really McCain could have won this time just pick a running mate more to the center. I'm not gonna say Happy New Year because I don't think it will be.
thanks Benen. you will be seen as one of the heroes of 2012 for your chronicling of Willard's LIES.
The first act of Congress 2013: "So we have an agreement that agrees to an agreement that agrees to agree with without agreeing to an agreement."
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/12/31/16275041-bipartisan-fiscal-agreement-reached
In other news, Chris Jansing is still really high.
Just a nudge point. You wrote, "Most important is the policies that make up the deal,..." However, since policies is the subject of the sentence, it has to read, "Most important are the policies that make up the deal,..." Carry on.
I honestly do love youse guys! Do you realize how exceptional you are, even compared with other blue blogs, in the coherence of your expression, your ability to spell (even the notorious 'its' vs. 'it's'), your concern about correct grammar? Excepting the trolls, that is, and most of us seem to have realized that ignoring them officially is the best response.
That's why the comment stream here is so much easier to read than, well, than many on DKos. Not often do I have to pause to wonder what a commenter actually meant vs. what he/she wrote. In my twilight years, facing that effort means I pass over most of the sloppier screeds.
Thank you, Steve and colleagues, thank you other bloggers, and may 2013 see even less of sh00ter and his/her/its peers.
And of course, thanks above all to Rachel, who somehow spurred the formation of this self-selected motley crew.
Have the Democratic cowards in the Senate voted yet? I called both of mine to express my disgust but that was a wasted effort. They will fall in line and do as Obama orders them since they believe in nothing.
My senator
I am hoping him or Sen. Sanders filibuster and sink this trash , they will vote on it tomorrow
BTW, I believe Senator Harkin never filibusters and always votes to end a filibuster. At least I am fairly certain he has publicly stated as much in the past.
I think he wants the Senate to act responsibly even if that means he loses a vote.
Well so its over the cliff. Surprise surprise! Merry Cliffmess!
Senate just passed the deal. Now we we get to see the follies in the House.
How ironic that the part of the government with the most power under the Constitution and the more streamlined process, the House, is the least functional player in this enterprise.
Revenues raised by this agreement appear to be about $60 billion a year from increases in Federal Income Tax on the upper 0.75%, and about $110 billion a year from the lapsing of the payroll tax holiday on everyone earning a paycheck. At least, that is the figures I can find from CNN and the AP at this time.
Which means that a couple working as ER nurses will continue to pay a higher total federal marginal tax rate than an upper management paper pusher subject to the 39.6% tax bracket. Evidently upper level managers are more deserving of federal reward than those saving lives.
Yet the conservatives will still howl about how Obama is soaking the rich, because some people know no shame.
Exactly John , Warren Buffet will still be paying less in taxes than his secretary , forever now
The whole Obama presidential campaign seems like a serial joke now , watch his poll numbers tank again , the only legitimacy obama will have for the rest of his term is "how bad will he sell out on the next deal ? " .... What a wonderful negotiating strategy , sending a message to the gop that he is willing to cave on everything , so lets go
Just think if Romney had won where do you think we would be then? It really amazes me that everyone blames the president for doing what he is supposed to be doing instead of doing what he wants and claiming that the law of the land is just a piece of god damned meaningless paper. Do I like the deal no who does, but really are you willing to let the unemployed and elderly to suffer because the republicans threw a hissy fit, remember Newt and shut down government, GOP stupidity at it best.
Unless I am mistaken,There is no such thing as forever when it comes to government. Anything can be changed by a new vote of whichever Congress is in session at the time.
just saying...
Ad: Looking for vacancies to be filled. Middle Class removed by former boss.
Get well soon
Madam PresidentOops Secretary of State Clinton! Step down Obama and let Biden take over and then he can pick Hillary then he can step down....Seems Obama forgot his bag in Hawaii the one with his kahunas in it!Mitch McConnell comes to a sudden realization:
http://twitpic.com/brgi72
A Bazooka could take care of that problem ! No Muss , No Fuss ! Ye,Ye,Ye,Ye,Ye, Live Action !
"Happiness" is a state of mind, so your relationship with 2013 is entirely in your hands.
At this moment Boner & Co. are consuming buckets of black coffee and reading the Senate passed bill, furiously searching for "what's in it for ME?"
Life is Good- considering the alternative.
Looking at the details of this bill it is pretty apparent to me that the Democratic Senators got just about everything they wanted. You all are pitching a fit that the top rate moved from $250,000 to $400,000, but the Democratic guys voting are mostly run with people making around $400,000. I am not too shocked the Senators both Democrats and Republicans protected their friends.
The unemployment checks keep on flowing, and that is important for a while longer. The Social Security tax reduction was temporary, and should have been the first thing dropped as the economy has improved. It has improved. It is time for the old rates to return.
The surprise to me is the cap gain and dividend rate move. I was expecting it to be "lost" in the shuffling of paper, but they moved the rate from 15 to 20 on millionaires and billionaires. Mittens is going to have to pay a little more next year.
Happy New Year to all.
Ron,
The Bush Tax Cuts were temporary as well, for making them permanent when they were first past would have had the CBO report on their true impact on the deficit.
Is it too much to ask that all income should be taxed on the same schedules, and that those making more should pay at the same or higher a marginal rate than those making less?
The Feds tax investments and inheritance at lower rates than work. Why do we tolerate the feds rewarding investors and trust fund babies over those working for a living?
The Feds, especially the GOP Feds, are trying to keep Social Security in surplus forever to avoid honoring the bonds in the SS surplus. This converts the payroll tax into a general purpose income tax that essentially exempts the wealthy. Why do we tolerate a celebrity making $500,000 a year paying a lower total marginal rate than a pair of scrub nurses making $150,000 a year?
Maybe the Feds tax investments and inheritance at lower rates because it is generated from monies that have already been taxed as income tax rates.
If my parents work hard, pay taxes, and save money so that I have an inheritance, why should the federal government be entitled to a larger piece of the pie?
Did I say this is a good tax bill? No, it isn't what I would have liked, but it is about what I would expect out of this Senate. It fits right in with Obama's overall center right political philosophy. About all the Republicans got was a marginal tax rate move from $250,000 to 400,000 (more in each category when adjusted for inflation.)
As you might recall I have been calling for going over the cliff, but I am not one of the people who would have seen my unemployment end this week. In the absence of a real honest to God national retirement program, I also want Social Security to be funded fully, so restoring the regular rates suits me just fine.
I think the President needs to change the debate from mostly cutting "entitlements" to mostly cutting defense. I pay close attention to the defense industry. I can tell you the big defense contractors are acting like they expect significant cuts. About the only people who don't are Republican members of Congress.
If you think romney will pay more taxes next year , you are a sucker indeed
The dems had a chance to get revenues up to pay down the debt , and keep investing in america , now we are stuck in perpetual t bagger austerity for ever
With the real working class having no one to really vote for in the future
You better hope you are never unfortunate enough to fall in the tattered safety net of america , because there is none , and what was left of it is being shredded right now , and over the next few years
Where do you imagine they are going to cut spending to get the debt under control now? Infrastructure investment ? NO MORE
patango,
I guess alcohol does depress. I never liked the Bush tax rates (expecially the 2003 round) but Obama didn't run on repealing the Bush tax rates for everybody. He ran on raising rates a little bit for millionaires and billionaires. He accomplished that goal. That the rate was fixed at $400,000 instead of $250,000 is all part of the process we call negotiation.
The real way to pay down the debt is to grow the economy. Going over the cliff runs the risk of a double dip recession. That would explode the debt even further.
Ron B: I agree completely. Happy New Year.
Lisa,
Capital gains have not been taxed as income, they are profits made from an investment. If you buy stock at $10,000 and sell at $11,000, you pay taxes on the gain ($1000), not the total sale.
When inheritance is money into your household, your household has never paid tax on it. We tax households, not extended families (much to the relief of my adult daughter in a much lower bracket). Someone getting $50,000 because his estranged uncle died should not be rewarded with a tax holiday while a someone working for a living is paying taxes.
@John
I'm well aware of what the taxes are on capital gains. I've paid them. But the money that I used to invest was from income that I worked for and paid taxes on.
I don't consider that if my friend inherits money from a parent that I, as a US citizen, deserve to get a bigger and bigger slice of the pie from that.
Why equate someone getting an inheritance from a loved one with taking away from someone else?
It appears that The Obomination has retained his title as Capitulator in Chief. Now he gets to show us his lack of spine again in a couple months. Bullsh!t...
Right because the US would be better served by a King whose every whim and desire is done with a wave of his hand. No the real problem is we have a party of pigheaded @!$%#s who want to turn this country into a Dickens utopia, where the wealthy get everything and workers are paid a penny a day wage. Whats bull @!$%# is how the GOP is willing to destroy the country and throw everyone under the bus to ensure the CEO gets his wealth protected.
While Obama does have the negotiating skills of a sea cucumber, it's also the case that Boehner has a similarly-bad skill set as Speaker. Obama may be rescued from his incompetence as a negotiator by the recalcitrance of the House Republicans. We'll see.
Right except when dealing with the GOP who will destroy the economy at the drop of a hat skills or lack of skills has nothing to do with what is going on. As we saw in the 90's the GOP will shut down the government without a thought of who gets hurt because the people they represent have nothing to fear from government shut downs.