Associated Press
At a certain level, it may seem hard to believe the Republican-led House would kill a bipartisan fiscal compromise that passed the Senate with 89 votes, including 40 of the Senate's 46 GOP members. Indeed, why in the world would House Republicans want to be on the hook for destroying the agreement and causing a middle-class tax hike?
But it's important to remember that organized nihilists running part of the government are capable of unexpected actions.
House Republicans reacted with anger Tuesday afternoon to a Senate-passed plan to head off automatic tax increases and spending cuts, putting the fate of the legislation in doubt just hours after it appeared Congress was nearing a resolution of the fiscal crisis.
Lawmakers said that Representative Eric Cantor of Virginia, the No. 2 Republican, indicated to his colleagues in a closed-door meeting in the basement of the Capitol that he could not support the legislation in its current form.
Cantor's stated opposition caught many off guard. It's not that he's breaking publicly with the Speaker, exactly -- John Boehner has committed to bringing the bill to the floor, but hasn't publicly stated an opinion on its merits -- but the Majority Leader's position still carries real weight. When he balks, it stands to reason he's going to take a whole lot of votes with him.
A specific House GOP strategy has not yet taken shape, but Rep. Spencer Bachus (R-Ala.) said he'd be "shocked" if the House didn't try to amend the Biden/McConnell deal, make it more right-wing, and then sent it "back to the Senate."
Of course, if the House fails to pass the Senate version as-is, the entire package will unravel, the process will start all over again in the new Congress, and the economic consequences would start to kick in.
All of this, as a practical matter, opens the door to a series of possible outcomes.
Scenario #1: House Republicans are just blowing off some steam this afternoon, but they'll eventually realize they have limited options, bite the bullet, and pass the deal with some Democratic votes.
Scenario #2: The vast majority of House Republicans will balk, but the chamber won't want to be blamed for destroying everything, so a sliver of the caucus will join Democrats and grudgingly pass the package. This will raise questions anew about John Boehner's career, and turn up the volume on scuttlebutt about Cantor running for the Speaker's gavel this week.
Scenario #3: House Republicans will amend the Senate deal, make it more Tea Party-friendly, and demand that the Senate approve their new version. This will necessarily force the entire process to collapse.
Scenario #4: House Republicans will pass two bills, the Senate's bipartisan agreement as-is, and a separate bill filled with spending cuts. The Senate would ignore the second bill, but it might make the House GOP feel better about itself.
Scenario #5: House Republicans will kill the Senate bill, there will be an enormous political freak out, and there will be hell to pay at the start of the new Congress.
Which one of these scenarios is likely to happen? Your guess is as good as mine.
Keep one other angle to this in mind: the House is taking up a bill it had nothing to do with. After House Republicans balked at every possible alternative, including their own Speaker's fallback plan, Boehner deliberately took his entire chamber out of the process, asking the Senate to do all of the work, and promising to bring their resolution to the House floor. The lower chamber knew all along that it would basically have to vote up or down on whatever compromise the Senate worked out.
And as of this afternoon, the outcome is far from clear.
Update: Just as a fun thought experiment, consider what this process might look like if the Speaker of the House were a strong leader with some shred of influence over his own caucus. It's easy to take it for granted, because we've become so accustomed to it over the last two years, but Boehner is weak in ways that have no modern precedent; he has effectively no control in his own chamber; and from an institutional/structural perspective, the Speaker's fecklessness leads to important consequences, as we're seeing today.
Second Update: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has endorsed the Senate deal and says a "strong majority" of House Democrats will vote for it if the agreement reaches the House floor. It suggests the package will probably pass and become law if Boehner ignores the arbitrary, so-called "Hastert Rule," and lets the House vote up or down on the bill.
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It just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?
Tell me this isn't a power grab by Cantor.
Boehner needs to hail mary this thing and put it to a vote, up or down.
He's screwed either way, and I have to laugh and feel pity for Boehner, he's a terrible Speaker.
Just. Bloody. Terrible.
Of course it's a powergrab by Cantor! He's been trying to stage a palace coup since the beginning of the 112th Congress...the little weasel.
Come now, did you REALLY expect anything else? If you did, you haven't been paying attention. This is just the first salvo to get Obama to give in some more!
Just remember, that slimy little putz-in-a-shiny-suit Cantor was the only one with the cat-who-ate-the-canary-bird smile on his face back when Plan B failed.
Yeah, he's a pistol, that self-named "Young Gun." So he aims and fires. Does that guarantee that he will hit his intended target? He's just another hothead in the Tea Party Militia, trying to abolish all taxes. Get over your bad self, Eric.
The House Republicans once again will try to use the minority obstruction to Rule or Ruin. From Lincoln's Cooper Union spech:
That is the final strategy for the Zealots since their radical policies are not supported by any majority-Rule or Ruin
The Debt Ceiling Debacle was --Rule or Ruin
The Next Debt Ceiling crisis will be --Rule or Ruin
The Senate filibuster is-- Rule or Ruin
Well they are looking like petulant children to most of the country. They are going to look even more like children in February.
This is good. It will make 2014 much more satisfying.
Grow a set, Obama. Tell them negotiations are OVER. Let the outliars in the House of obstructionists tell the unemployed they won't be getting paid. Tell the hurricane victims they won't get help from the T-Party this year. Let them explain it to their constituents whose taxes are now being raised.
What a bunch of crap. Eric the shark is after Boehner's job.
Don't give these treasonists an inch. The cliff is better; you've already given them too much! C'mon, YOU WON! They LOST!
@Eileen,
Gladly voted you up for #1.4.
I'd like to add that this greedy numb-n*t multimillionaire/1%er stooge (Cantor) does not and will likely never realize that the only targets he's really hitting are his own feet....as in "shoot yourself in the foot."
WTF!?
*Hands slap to sides of head*
Why would anyone WANT to lead the sinking ship that is the Republican Congressional Caucus? The events of the last month clearly demonstrate that Republicans will not follow THEIR OWN 'LEADERS' so why set yourself up for ridicule and derision? If they reject this deal the GOP might as well pack their bags for Oblivion right now. Everyone remember this month when you vote.
With the confidence that comes from gerrymadering back home, arrogance is assured!
Somehow I keep thinking of something Napoleon said:
Yeah, I'm sorry: the Senate made a deal, and it's done. President Obama should tell them it's done, no changes.
Geeze Louise, they're going to fight about cost cutting in a couple of months. Cantor is a complete idiot if he decides to mess this up. Then it really will be the fault of the GOP House. Yep, it's all about jobs folks! If they say taxes on the rich hurt the job creators one more time....grr.....
I also agree that no one in their right minds would want Boehner's job, so of course he will be reinstated. Frankly I think the GOP would reinstate him anyway, since they live in opposite land.
OK, back to congress.org to write another letter... you people...
Years ago, I used to see a precedent to the bizarre behavior of Boehner, in academia, and I'm sure many public school teachers have also seen the species in a certain type of administrator that many school systems unfortunately get saddled with.
This person is supposedly a "player," but in reality, they are a version of Catch 22's Major Major Major Major. Spineless, running survival equations constantly in a game of sucking up or trying to please everyone, at all times, and in effect pleasing no one.
No long term vision. Actually backs up no one, and is utterly manipulatable by everyone who knows how to use his own hyper-survival mechanism against him in a pretty low-level chess game.
But anyone who actually wants to accomplish anything other than pushing papers around gets absolutely nowhere. This do-nothing person has only one ability, marking time while managing appearances.
Which leads to a question: why does the House GOP keep such an ineffectual putz in this position? There is only one answer. He serves their purposes, because he postures and makes it look like something is happening, when the caucus WANTS nothing to happen. He gives them additional cover, in other words, from being openly and directly oppositional. Yes, they are obstructionist. But by keeping an ineffectual puppet in this position, he becomes a convenient scapegoat for the obstructionism while also creating a swirl of half-baked activity that accomplishes obstructionism while pretending not to be precisely that.
He's not the real speaker, nor is he the real actor. He may think he is, but that's because that's what the obstructionist freak-wing of the caucus WANTS him to think.
I don't think Cantor wants the Speaker job. I think Boehner is his patsy, and he wants to keep him precisely where he is.
Organized nihilists. That is perfect, Steve Benen, Perfect.
And remember what we learned in school: Ex nihilo nihil!
(Nothing comes of nothing, for those who didn't suffer Latin classes for several Loooong years.) Looooooonnnng years...
These outliars won't rest until they get their dirty, sticky hands on the entitlement. Don't let them, President Obama! Go over the cliff. Let them take the blame, which is well deserved. They are bullies. Never give in to bullies; it only will get worse once they see a shred of weakness.
And sharks can smell that a mile away.
Chris,
the GOP has always loved puppets and actors. Just put them in place and have them read the script.
Some actors choose roles, some take whatever role they can get.
I remember all the buzz (pre Obama) about allowing non U.S. born citizens to be President. This was the vision of putting Arnold Schwartzenegger in the WH. He was the Terminator, then the Pregnant Man. Didn't matter what role. He was livin' large.
He became Gov. of CA after railroading Gray Davis for ENRON supply side manipulation, how embarrassing. He did nothing for CA. Just like Reagan, he just let the mentally disabled people out and they became "the homeless". Great, that is the vision of R's.
Still at it, people? Fooled by the Kabuki? Still don't get it? Here's what's happening: Democrats are going to pass this and then DEMOCRATS will have made the Bush tax cuts PERMANENT.
Do you get it? Can you finally start to see how stupid the Democrats are? You no longer can say it's Republicans' fiscal irresponsibility because after 12 YEARS experience of this stupid policy DEMOCRATS made them permanent. DEMOCRATS.
You've been had.
Citizens can forgive the GOP for relentlessly pursuing the destruction of the US economy- Already most people have not only forgiven but forgotten Wall Street's demolition of our economy in 2008.
What people find inexcusable is how unprofessional the GOP is at pursuing the same goal- for there is nothing more hateful to Americans than incompetence. What injures the national psyche is not so much that something terrible is being done, but that it is being carried out terribly- executed by confident bunglers, consistently demonstrating their incapacity to achieve even their most elementary objectives.
DWIA, you're getting as annoying as airball
Uh, huh. Maybe address what I said. Am I wrong? Or are you only good at being blind to the hideous truth of it? The truth is: Democrats made the Bush tax cuts PERMANENT. Get it? Or do you just want to ignore it and pretend, just like the Useful Idiot wingnuts, that reality doesn't matter? And the reality is that Barack Obama and Democrats have made an unnecessary irresponsible fiscal action that will, in the end, help destroy the 20th century.
Ignore it if you must. Stick your head in the sand like some climate change denier if it's too much for you to bear. Or accept the truth.
DisgustedWithItAll, in the self made crisis there are so many ironic pieces, your observation that the Democrats have now made the long criticized Bush tax cuts permanent has to be at the top of the list.
This blog has blamed it for every ill under the sun and now they are celebrating, begging for 99% of it (the vast monetary part of it) to be permanent. Oh, well. I was against it before I was for it?????
I am not your friend. You repulse me.
What I want is for my fellow liberals/progressives/Democrats to understand just what Barack Obama and the Democrats have done to them with an unnecessary, irresponsible fiscal action and just how damned stupid it is. I want to vomit.
JohnMesserly, the chickens coming home to roost here are the net effect of decades of a lack of investment in both the broader educational climate in the US, AND the persistent dumbing-down of the Press to what is commonly called "sixth grade reading level."
What they mean is Sixth Grade Intelligence Level. Not only do you get a populace that in many districts can be treated wholly as rubes to be snowed and manipulated, you also get PEOPLE ELECTED to represent those districts whose ignorance of basic principles of economics, of any sense of foreign policy, even national policy, even READING AND MATH, is so extreme, they vote like the rubes their constituents are construed to be.
If you had any doubt, that bizarre hit earlier this evening on MSNBC from Chuck Todd, analyzing the so-called "political calculus" of the House GOP members vs. Senate GOP members was SO reductive and wrong-headed, it narrowly framed the legislators' wants and needs like NCAA football program donors who presume if they donate $100 to the program, they have the right to call plays live on the field. Also, a parking spot next to the coach.
Delusional Republicans are, at this point, a major hindrance to the long-term governance of the U.S. To continue to provide so-called analysis of their rampant ignorance is if it were the status quo and NOT delusional presumes that such crazy ass thinking not only IS the norm, but should be the norm.
It is just offensive to thinking people. It would be like reporting that these folks are Flat Earthers, and because the earth is so flat, they should get to change all the measurement systems to remove compensation for the curve of the surface.
At this point, even more dangerous are the people who will not stand up to them. People like our very own Neville Chamberlain, President Mammoth Cave. Or the cluelessly ironic Nancy Pelosi, practically begging John Boehner to allow the Biden-McConnell cave to come up for a vote so Democrats can own the Bush tax cuts they spent twelve years decrying.
The stupidity is surreal. I don't believe what I'm witnessing. But I do know who is winning and who is losing; the crazy, offensive, reality-deniers are winning, and the spineless are losing.
Just remember: Democrats don't hold the high moral ground any more. They've given it up. Cowards never can hold the high ground. They always make things worse in the end, and may recover but only after a lot of damage is done. And they may never recover.
If you don't understand that, you're part of the problem.
Now for real: Good-bye.
Chris Boese #1.22,
They are the flat earth people. I'm surprised they haven't tried your fine compensation idea. I can just see a light bulb going off in Michele Bachmann's head! You should e-mail her that idea. LOL
Unfortunately, like the rest of them, she'll be around for a while. Bad pennies, the lot of them.
Chris, I am sure you know I agree. To drive deeper to the heart of it has to do with the kind of intelligence. While education reform is talking about greater rigor in the mental skills and information needed, what is sorely lacking is emotional education. Though as a technologist I understand how sorely lacking our schools are in basic science and mathematics education, the kind of stupidty much in evidence on AM talk radio has to do with infantile emotional development.
For this kind of education, math and science textbooks are worthless. We need far greater in depth excellence in education in music, art and literature classics. A high school graduate should not be allowed onto the street without a familiarity with at least 3 Shakespeare plays, the ability to identify famous passages from the top 200 literary classics, the ability to recognize and name the major compositions of the top 50 classical music composers, and the ability to identify a visual work by artist and genre for the 200 top visual artists.
And by "Top"- I mean a full range. In Music, not just Boston Pops stuff but John Cage and Bela Bartok. In visual art, not just Cellini but Robert Arneson. In literature not just Whitman and Jane Austin but William S. Burroughs and Robbe-Grillet.
Sure, students should at least be able to perceive the beauty of an elegant proof in geometry. Sure, they should understand the rigorous exclusion of subjective bias from empirical observation. But there can only be social calamity if the minds of the citizens are powerful and their hearts are weak. That is the pathway to the self annihilation of humanity.
There is no reason that exposure to the giants listed above is withheld from citizens attending public schools.
I'm going to guess that you get about 50 Republican votes, with all of the Tea Partiers, leadership and certainly Paul Ryan voting it down. So it's up to Pelosi to deliver about 90% of her caucus to get the deal over the finish line.
I say they let this one grudgingly pass because they have the big shiny debt limit crisis to manufacture in two short months.
The rich, aka 'conservatives' (meaning they want to conserve all their money) are ACHING for a tax rise ON THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE POOR, the ones they disdain in so ugly a fashion, claiming they are 'freeloaders' and that the poor little rich guys have to shoulder all the demands 'those people' make of government.
This is who Cantor is representing, and he may queer the deal just to tell his guys that he really stuck it to the 98% as they dreamed of. Their tax rise won't harm them all that much...
So what are YOU doing about it?
OAR -- Can you offer us some suggestions?
Trying to hash through the sturm und drang to find actual factoids has been harder than most expected. That process -- distinguishing signal from noise -- will continue for a while, and many of us are not yet able to see through with the clarity you have.
It's just not that easy to come up with a fixed opinion before enough facts are available. And we won't always agree on what constitutes "enough."
Please offer some guidance or well-reasoned persuasion to those of us still working through this. Free-wheeling, mean-spirited accusations don't teach, they just alienate.
FWIW.
You make a good point, Helena! We need a charismatic leader - someone who can join all of us together, and it is obvious that I am not that person - but I am a great worker and I will support whoever we find. I was thinking of someone like Ed.... I'm thinking a "million person march" on Congress in the summer would be a great idea.
One of the things we can do is volunteer to work for local and state candidates - it will help us find really good national candidates.
Another thing we can do is read every bill passed by Congress so that we can better analyze what they are doing and why.
I really want the movement to be a "middle class" movement, rather than a Democratic or Republican movement, because there are so many disenfranchised people in BOTH parties, but however it turns out, I will support it!!
I am trying to remember how we organized in the 60's to get things done (and we DID get a lot accomplished), but maybe we need to work this in a different way.
OAR -- It will be tough on many of us who had that hope in POTUS to let go and look elsewhere. Ed himself may still be tied up with his wife's illness. The Million (Rational) Person March is well worth pursuing, IMO, especially since this is the 50th anniversary of the original March on Washington. I'll be on the Mall for that, no matter what else is happening!
I really wonder whether we'll be able to find enough really good national candidates, after all this, uh, malarky going on up in D.C. Would any truly sane individual join that MegaFail on purpose? But I agree totally that we have to get super-aggressive at the state and local level with tougher candidates who can (and will) hold their own in those increasingly mindless state legislatures. Here in Southern MD it's too easy to go complacent, and there were enough TP-ish billboards around (well, south of here) to remind me of the "Impeach Earl Warren!" days of Alabama. (We're probably about the same age.)
You are absolutely right that we MUST school ourselves and each other on the issues that matter -- and the legislation offered to address those issues -- which is one reason I read as much on-line as I once did through books. Even though I'm beginning to fade, I still have that genetic Need to Know.
Did we deliberately plan and thoughtfully organize back in the 60s, or did we rise up instinctively because the contrasts with our "quiet" 1950s were so stark? I worry that we've become frogs unaware of the steadily warming water we're in -- dead before we've realized we have to jump. Not just squirm and grouse, but leap out and away! Can you imagine the 1960s-version of Us shrugging on learning of warrentless wiretaps and secret drone strikes?
OAR, please keep talking here and thinking out loud. If you find wisdom elsewhere, please point us in that direction, too.
Failure is not an option, though we've come to accept it.
Many thanks!
--hv
If only Bobby Kennedy were alive now.
Dear India --
Amen. Amen.
--hv
The Occupy Movement could probably be useful here. Feel free to add to this and pass it on to others.
When in the course of human events it became necessary for our leaders to dissolve the political bonds which connected them to others and assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature’s God entitled them, their respect for the opinions of humanity compelled them to enumerate the causes, and their vision, courage and determination to end tyranny guided them to pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to the protection of the inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They established this nation, and the history of this nation is a chronicle of the struggle to provide these rights to all people, here and abroad. Common sense dictates that we do not discard the government and institutions that have advanced that struggle further than any other in the history of humanity. But when rich and powerful forces in society use and abuse the rights and freedoms secured by these institutions to reserve these riches, powers, rights and freedoms for themselves and reduce all other people to poverty and deprivation and subject these people to their tyranny with the consequence of degrading the global habitat, subjecting it to stresses that, unrelieved, will destroy its power to sustain the people, then it is the right and the duty of the people to counter these forces and restore the rights, freedoms and habitat all people need to thrive. Such is the current state of affairs and such is the necessity which compels the people to identify and abolish these abuses. We submit these facts to a candid world.
The citizens of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Russia have identified and remedied, with varying degrees of success, the abuses by their rulers designed to enrich themselves and keep their peoples in a state of poverty and tyranny. The current Administration has taken measures and instituted policies that support such remedies without affecting the sacred right of these peoples to choose their own safeguards of their inalienable rights. This is in direct opposition to the policies of the previous Administration which sought to dictate and manage this change in sovereign nations and the critics who represent the forces that benefit from such policies. These events demonstrate the extent these forces endeavor to exercise their control of human events and the measures needed to abolish such control for the benefit of humanity.
The vast majority of scientific research on global climate change leads to the conclusion that our environment is warming at a dangerous rate due to the increase of carbon in the atmosphere. This change is reliably linked by the same research to human activity involving fossil fuels. This research has predicted that this warming can destroy the planet as a habitat for human life. The forces that benefit from this current state have advanced scientists to challenge the conclusions of this research in order to postpone or forestall the steps necessary to remedy our climate. These scientists risk being discredited by the scientific community due to the preponderance of evidence against their position in this debate. This obstruction of scientific inquiry that sustains these forces threatens all of humanity.
Representatives of these rich and powerful forces have manufactured a political crisis where they have obstructed action and legislation necessary and beneficial to the people unless and until such action and legislation further reserves the rights, freedoms and riches of the people to these rich and powerful forces. Such a course threatens the welfare of the people and benefits only those bent on tyranny.
(Note: Everyone is entitled to add to this in order to represent all points of view. Others can take on the financial crisis, the Gulf Oil Spill, Congressional deadlock, Citizens United, state laws targeting collective bargaining rights, voting rights, reproductive rights – any subject you feel affects the 99%. The only requirement is that the statement be factual. Read the Declaration of Independence and you will see that the Founding Fathers saw fit to include only truths, not opinions, in their causes; it is up to us to do the same. Good luck!)
During all these incidents the people sought to accommodate the rich and powerful forces in order to preserve themselves and their posterity. Such accommodation only engendered further abuse and attempts to increase their riches and power over the people. We still seek accommodation since the rich and powerful share humanity with us and, therefore, are equally entitled to these rights and freedoms. We will treat them as we treat everyone in the struggle to preserve these rights, freedoms and habitat – condemn them as oppressors, welcome them as partners.
We, therefore, unite to call for justice over tyranny, fairness over greed, and global survival over destruction. Humanity, at this point in history, requires no less.
Is OWS up for a march on the Capitol this summer?
Joe -- OK.
What did Occupy do right, and what (if anything) have we learned from its successes and failures? Let's be hard-nosed about this.
One thing is that most of us probably didn't expect the massive corporate-plus-government fighting back. At least naive, old, safely-poor I didn't expect that part of it. When I left the Feds, DHS was an obese, malfunctioning joke. I guess having all that funding made them seek out a mission they could really do. That plus no real disincentive to use warrentless domestic surveillance.
We need to learn very, very quickly and assert ourselves in a theatre they're not expecting.
OAR -- Are they indeed. Hmmmmm.
Helena
That is why I suggested we ask them. Then we simultaneously show up at Capitol Hill AND the district offices of all these Republican 'leaders' of Congress. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week.
Joe and OAR --
Do Republicon leaders (a generous characterization) open their doors to Democrats out of their districts? And if they open said doors, do they actually listen -- or feel pressure?
My CongressCritter is Steny Hoyer. He knows in great detail what I think. My Senators (Cardin & Mikulski) are go-along, get-along types.
Still, making a nuisance of ourselves may catch the attention of the MSM. Whether the MSM cover such incidents at all -- like they did the TeaParty -- is crucial. Recall how they "covered" the Occupy movement.
I live ~25 miles south of the Beltway and would welcome the opportunity to make a nuisance of myself in DC. With my aged cats, a painful disability, and aphasia to consider, though, the possibility of jail time it problematic.
As you say, relentless lobbying of wussy Dems may actually do some good.
Hold open the date of 28 August 2013, aiming to implement another March on Washington.
Now is the time to rescue our government from the Organized Nihilists (thanks for that one, Steve.)
August 28th it is!!!
I like what I'm reading here. We can do this because we, as Democrats, know what we are FOR. We need to keep sharing information. Name calling and anger won't get anything done. We will be hit with a lot of "reload" rhetoric from some quarters, but we need to stay focused on the goals. The Occupy movement as partners is a good idea. I'll be there in August. Thanks, Steve, and to the posters who have great ideas and who take the time to your arguments. Happy New Year to all.
Thanks Democrats for finally realizing that the BUSH tax cuts were 99% correct. now that they are permanent we can now go cut spending and put this behind us. By making the cuts permanent we have now set the % of GDP that we will have to spend in other words the revenue side of the budget is finalized permanently and the spending side has a built in limit. That is all we ever wanted fixed and dependable revenue.
Time to get your freak on!!!
Who needs football games with this Roman Colisseum Games - style entertainment going on? Sheesh. Much better to spend time cleaning out litter boxes.
Thanks for your beyond-the-pale work on what should be a day-off for you, Steve.
When this is over, if this obstruction keeps up from the T-Party, I'll give Cantor a job cleaning my cat's litter and he'll be glad to have it.
Obama has given them more than enough, if he caves now the bullying will only get worse.
I'd tell them NEGOTIATIONS ARE OVER. DEAL WITH IT. They caused it; let therm pay.
India -- Does that mean you are actually in a position (i.e., as a VA voter) to, ahem, move him permanently into another line of work?
This mess would be entertaining if it weren't so g**d**n important!!
Actually, I won't be the one "moving" him. LOL
I see you loved Bobby Kennedy too. You know, I so often I wonder what our country would look like today but for that terrible June night when the lights went out in America. What a loss that was.
I still tear up when I see those old TV clips of him speaking that night when MLK Jr. was shot. RIP
India -- It was a treasonable offense to say the word "Kennedy" out loud in Alabama back in the early 60s. My 8th-grade science teacher went around our school announcing JFK's assassination with undisguised glee. But a few of her students had enough sense not to cheer.
Then they killed Martin and Bobby.
We somehow endured that, but things have never seemed quite right since. Thus the sensibilities of 60-ish Progressives. But who will go once more into the breach this time?
There was only one Bobby Kennedy. Only one MLK, Jr. Sad.
helena vargas,
Maybe that's what we can do to settle some of this stuff. Have Reps fight like Gladiators or some other type of "Survivor" competition?
Yes, this is very serious and very, very sad.
Helena, #3.12 Regarding the march, don't put your health at risk. Maybe try recruiting others to march. Phone calls, etc. Don't risk your health or your animals, even. I don't think you would, actually, but I am a worrier.
(Sorry, but I was a medic, and I know what you meant about your disability.)
PS, They actually got gleeful in Alabama over Kennedy's death. Wow. I cannot even get my mind around people like that.
they are clowns, and I'm not shocked.
these folks would kill the whole thing.
it was Orange JUlius that said the SENATE AND PRESIDENT had to do something...and they did.
I can never see a picture of Boehner and Cantor without thinking, "Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look."
They,ll lure Boehner to the floor of the senate and get out the knives. With Cantor in the lead hiding behind that big nose and those glasses so no one knows who he is.
#7,Thisby
LOL
We can only hope they'll choose #4. I'm betting it'll be #5. They're whining about how their voices weren't "heard" when this deal was worked out. Tough beans. They had their chance.
"We can only hope...."??? Yep, THAT will do us a lot of good!! We "hope" - they act!
As I said before:
"If I was a Democratic House member, I wouldn't vote until I saw 200 yeas from the Republicans. Their finger prints on this bill, first!"
Time to ask the non-tea party House Republicans to join the Democratic Party.
The repukes and dems could work together to crush the t-bangers. Spin them off, third parties are pretty much doomed. The repukes would take a hit butt, I'll bet they're savy enough to minimize the primary threats, better so this way..
Get the country in surpluses again and then go back to lying about how you (the repukes) should get the credit..
?
Hey DNC how do you feel about taking 2010 off now?
Obama, Biden, don't give an inch. Please. Please don't.
I'm going with Scenario #5.
Boehner loves his gavel too much to ignore the Hastert rule.
Keep in mind that Boehner MUST get a majority of the Republicans to buy off on the bill before he can do anything. Look up the Hastert Rule. Until he gets that 50%+ threshold, he can't bring the bill up for a vote.
Don't you really wish all of this was happening BEFORE the election, instead of now?
My guess is that McConnell is slowly seething. Or maybe not so slowly.
The Hastert Rule is not a real rule. Boehner can call for a vote. He might lose his speakership in the process, but at this point he might consider that a blessing.
Cantor is grabbing for the speakership.
McConnell is not seething - he knew this would happen. Now he looks like a "hero" that was willing to compromise when, in reality, he knew the House would protect his flank!
Seething? Turtles are cold-blooded.
@Ron: It might not be a real rule, but it's real enough when it comes to how the Republicans do business. As you point out, breaking that "rule" would probably cost Boehner his speakership, and Boehner is more than a little careerist, so that's likely an unacceptable cost for him.
To be a bit generous to Boehner here, it's frankly a "rule" that paints the leadership into a bit of a corner, whomever the Speaker is: only bringing bills to the floor that a majority-of-the-majority supports, when you only control one house of congress, is a really great way to pass a bunch of bills that are dead in the water as far as the Senate is concerned, or to end up bringing bills that don't actually have the votes to pass, since you're ignoring the minority caucus entirely when crafting legislation under that equation.
So, it might not just be that Boehner is bad at his job, actually; it may simply be that the dogmatic adherence to arbitrary extra rules that the Republicans invented for themselves essentially ties the Speaker's hands to an unprecedented degree.
Extra rules ? Such as vowing not to use the full force of government to forge policy ?
Typical of the Republicans. They are so mean-spirited and hard-hearted that they simply cannot agree to anything that doesn't hurt the poor, the sick, and the elderly. It galls me that they call themselves Christians; they certainly do not follow Christ's commands.
It would be nothing short of insane for the house to not vote on the bill as is...Politically policy wise what have you I cant think of a reason.
I can! If they vote for this, then the Heritage Foundation and all those other old rich guys will find a "more compliant" Teabagger to run against them in their next primary - and they will provide the bucks for the Teabagger to win!
That can't continue forever either....at some point there will even be primaries from the left particularly in northeastern and western states
I don't know how this helps the Heritage Foundation. The Senate bill does something rich old guys love, it creates a stable tax landscape they can work with. This is all about the crazies who have taken over the Republican Party. They think they are revolutionaries and this is their revolution.
It helps the Heritage Foundation by ensuring that THEY have the power to make sure their members don't get taxed, that their members don't have to pay fair wages to their workers, that their members don't have to obey regulations that might cut into their profits, that their members get all the benefits this country has to offer.
McConnell loves this deal , along with Grover Norquist , they are basically making the bush tax cuts permanent , something bush and the gop could never accomplish , why so many dem voters fall behind obama with out question is a bit shocking to witness , this is a big step in making reaganomic permanent imo , that is far from what obama ran on
oncearepublican.
Last I looked today is January 1, 2013. That means the Bush Tax Cuts have expired. The House Republicans are voting for a tax cut, not a tax increase. Opposing this bill doesn't help the Heritage Foundation achieve any of the goals you have correctly pointed out. If they oppose this bill, they are voting against a tax cut. The Senate might figure out that they have already gone of the cliff, and there is no reason not to do a better tax bill over the next month.
I am not counting on the House to accomplish anything, because they can't. The Senate and President are Democratic. If they don't at least try to compromise with the President and the Senate, their base (my brothers for example) are going to see their taxes go way up with nobody to blame but the House Republicans. The 44 Republican votes for the current bill leave the House Republicans twisting in the wind. You think the radical Republican brand is weak after November, just think what it is going to be like when taxes really go up, the economy is thrown into a recession, and everybody in America looks straight at the House Republicans and says it is their fault.
You have to have real revolutionary balls to pull off what Cantor is threatening.
That's a good point Ron! I would assume that the House would immediately vote for the Bush Era tax cuts to remain in place for everyone (or perhaps only for the rich since they still believe in "trickle down economics"). I am sure that the Teabaggers have some plan in place other than just "beating Obama" because Sequestration will deeply hurt their sponsors!!
The only other thing I can think of is that all of their people want a reduction in the debt, but only by cutting social programs, so maybe they think that by showing they have the power to stop this plan, they think they will also have the power to destroy ACA, SS, and Medicare.
Quick follow up Jim Inhofe and Bernie Sanders both voted for this bill....if the majority of the house is either to the left or the right of them we have some serious problems or Al Franken and Pat toomey for that matter...insert your comparison here...
I'm just waiting for it to fail. My expectation that it will is running about 40/60 right now, and I kind of hope it does. It would be bad, but according to Krugman not as bad as the hype says it'll be. At this point anything that destroys the Republicans will make the fight for a progressive agenda that much more winnable. Let them hang themselves; even with the consequences of the cliff, the country will manage just fine without them.
The ONLY reason I want it to pass is because there are 3 Million unemployed people in this country who will lose their benefits. I would LOVE to be totally against this bill, but those people really need the money, so I can't in good conscience, be totally against it.
Other than that, it really IS a sellout!
I agree completely.
That's right, I've always thought of Cantor and Ryan as politicians that will do anything to advance their careers. Cantor is salivating at the idea of beating Boehner out of the Speakership. Fiscal Cliff? These guys like Cantor could careless, they may not even know what it is.
Cantor has probably been instrumental in allowing the wing nuts like Allen West have a say in the house. Not because he believes in the Tea Party's causes, but because this is the strategy to beat Boehner out of the Speakership, ie the Speaker having to cancel his own Bill.. He was instrumental in Boehner not being able to deal with the President last year.
Looks like he is trying once again, to derail/embarrass the Speaker by opening up his pie hole in opposition. Petty politicians, they haven't the slightest clue what their little political games could mean to the regular hard working American. I hope voters take notice of what the Tea Partiers and power hungry members like Cantor are doing to the House of Representatives.
It's a strange world we live in when people vie for the honor (house speaker) of being the biggest dooshbag lier in land...
Speaker Boehner should never have walked away from President Obama. Now the House is stuck with a Senate bill because Boehner wouldn't roll up his sleeves and work through a deal with the president.
And of course, the House now hates the bill that they themselves were supposed to put together.
Be it ever so internecine
There are few epochs like Rome
Midterm electoral pleasures apparently writ in stone
Becoming palaces where the thugs may roam
Exiled from rhyme and reason and a
Logic that dazzles rather than compels
The painted speaker bird squawking feyly
A sense I cannot recall , with comfort that at his heels a nipping
From allies near and dear
Be it ever so uncompromising
There is no destruction like the "House"
An apparent restroom poet...wonderful. At least there...the talents you possess are not "Wasted"...LOL
The solution to our woes is a simple one:
STEP ONE: Register to vote.
STEP TWO: in 2014 do it.
Heck yeah....if these job losses combined with the welfare and food stamp roll increases combined with this guy's love of spending and Government over reach does not influence you to kick these tax and spend government addicted liberals out of the house and senate...nothing will! well spoken, Day....
Now that's funny ...
It is a very sad day, that with Cantor's smirk of a grin; he has the power to stop all progress. They do nothing for 4-years, hold the hard working American public hostage, get paid to do nothing and just smirks when he leaves the meetings. They need to be reminded that mid-term elections are coming, it will not be good for them. By holding the American public hostage, they or he could be considered domestic terrorists; as it seems that Mr. Cantor is only acting this way for political gain (speaker-ship, perhaps)?. He is rich, what does he have to worry about!! A very sad state of affairs.
So...4 years of utter failure on the economy, and every front of his Foreign policy now in shambles...Border agents killed, Diplomats killed, and documents hidden by this corrupt administration....NOW this guy wants to increase taxes during a recession/depression AND continue spending on failed social programs? You HAVE to be joking.
You forgot , "storming out of meetings" . An act that assumes talking point propagandists understand pride , and the character required for the injury to it (i.e. the poster who assumes we have forgotten what a real domestic subversion of truth and justice is , Valerie Plame) .
Once not so very long ago people resigned rather than being compelled to support poison pills . With the introduction of official sinecures we lament the passing of the "principle . As a former mainstay of state minded policy makers , we note its extinction on or about the midterm elections 2010 .
............................................................RIP..........................................
I called it. If there's anything we can expect the brain-stem-only GOP to do, it's what's worst for the most people who aren't the 1%.
So...the Debt,credit downgrades and social programs looming insolvency is JUST not enough to convince Liberals that Government programs are in need of revamping and to just "ignore it"? *Sheesh*
Credit downgrades precipitated by the inability of Boehner and the GOP to take yes for an answer (as stated by the CREDIT AGENCY ITSELF)? Social program insolvencies resulting from the refusal of the GOP to make common-sense changes like lifting the income limit for contributions? Government programs like the out-of-control-and-extreme DoD spending that is the GOP's sacred cow, to which our lives, treasure, and the health of the country must be sacrificed? See, here's the thing: we liberals know what's wrong and how to fix it; it's conservatives like you who refuse to think or act in favor of fixing the actual problems we face.
Fake problems, like voter fraud and regulation of vaginas, y'all are all over that.
Oh, what a shock that Eric (snake boy) Cantor has issues with it. Surprised? No. Great bill? It has issues, but it at least showed that something can be worked out between both sides of the Senate (with major help from Joe Biden).
These terrorists don't give a damn about us. Vote these — — — — — — — — out of office.
So, it's in the HOUSE, where the ReJerkican's acted like a bunch of babies last week and couldn't make a vote on their own bill work. Just great. I hope their supporters are proud. Karma is coming... What goes around, comes around, three times fold.
Yeah, I usually am more composed and have better posts, but my nerves are shot with this crap.
Blah blah... spending cuts... blah blah... deficit... Yeah, and who did this crap to start with???
Liberals and the 60% of the budget for Social programs....of which NONE of these programs have ANY basis in the Constitution, but only in the mind of Nanny State and Government addicted Liberals.
Scott, is there something in the Constitution that says that til the end of time, nothing else can be done outside of the Constitution? You think only liberals receive gov't benefits they like? I bet even you are not going to turn down SS or Medicare, or if in a jam, UE benefits? When the R's put defense and corporate welfare on the table in a serious way, we will deal with our " social Programs " you and all other conservatives never use.
Defense IS in the Constitution... as is the concept of self reliance and NOT the Nanny State that was created in the 60's. Along with the one parent homes,the drop out rate increases and incarceration rates that have skyrocketed since this Welfare state mentality...
Self reliance is not mentioned in the Constitution, but general welfare is. Ayn Rand was a Russian loner who espoused a totally unAmerican point of view.
I love people who resort to the Constitution two centuries years after it was signed as though they just found out about it yesterday. It has a long and rich history. You might try taking a high school civics class if they still have such things. Home schooling is a joke.
So...why did it take til the 1960's to implement this nanny state mentality? Obviously your schooling was Public.
scottie: you do realize the SS and UE question was already resolved in the late 30's via SCOTUS, right?
http://www.ssa.gov/history/court.html
$1 in cuts for $41 in taxes. Thanks guys, you have saved our nation from ruin! Yippee!
If only reality was as delirious and fantastic as a drunken rant ...
Making insupportable statements with a turgid grimace , bound in fey heat , fun for whole families of sociopathic haters and deniers .
You MAY want to tell that to the CBO. They are the ones that pointed out the addition to the deficit this hog would add.
Scott, the answer to the problem you point out would have been for Senate Republicans to agree to increased taxes. They are the ones who insisted on pegging the top bracket at $400,000.
By the way, Really, you might not have noticed, but the bill the Senate passed is a tax bill. Spending cuts come later.
No...because "Later" never arrives. Uhmmm....at least not till AFTER bankruptcy.