In December 2010, congressional Republicans forced a contentious fight over tax policy, threatening to raise middle-class taxes and hurt the economy unless Democrats agreed to extend tax breaks for the wealthy. Four months later, the GOP very nearly forced a government shutdown, demanding Democrats accept spending cuts.
In July 2011, congressional Republicans instigated a debt-ceiling crisis, nearly forcing a default and global economic catastrophe, demanding steep spending cuts as a ransom. Three months later, the GOP threatened another government shutdown.
In April 2012, Republicans threatened to force yet another government shutdown, which was followed by the fiscal standoff that wasn't resolved until last night.
The point, of course, is that congressional Republicans are quite comfortable moving from one manufactured, self-imposed crisis to another, resolving one only to immediately pivot to the next, no matter the costs or consequences. It's become a terrifying m.o. that makes routine governing nearly impossible and problem solving a pipe dream.
And yet, so long as Republicans control part of Washington, the pattern will continue. Indeed, the stage is already set for the next crisis, which is now just two months away.
I'm referring, of course, to the one thing President Obama has said he will not budge on: the next debt-ceiling increase.
Technically, the nation reached its borrowing limit on Monday, but the Treasury Department will begin taking "extraordinary measures" that will extend the inflexible deadline until late February or perhaps early March, at which point Congress will either have to raise the ceiling -- as it's done 90 times over the last eight decades -- or the nation will default, trash the full faith and credit of the United States, and very likely crash the global economy.
The GOP line, at least for now, is to aim for the latter. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said over the weekend that without "meaningful" entitlement cuts, he'll refuse to allow the nation to pay its bills and force the country into default. Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said the same thing.
On the other hand, we have President Obama and congressional Democrats who have said they simply will not negotiate on the debt ceiling -- if Republicans take the nation hostage, and threaten to hurt Americans on purpose, Democrats will not pay the ransom. The president repeated the point last night, immediately after the fiscal agreement had cleared Congress.
There can be little doubt that the GOP will test Obama's resolve, working from the assumption that he'll blink before Republicans follow through on their threats to do deliberate national harm. But as of now, the White House insists Democrats will negotiate on all kinds of policies, but not this one.
The outcome is obviously important for those who hope to avoid a global depression, but it also matters insofar as evaluating the McConnell/Biden fiscal agreement. The bipartisan deal includes no cuts to Medicare, no cuts to Social Security, and in fact no new spending cuts at all. Why would Republicans swallow a compromise like that? In part because they assume they'll get those cuts in short order, demanding them in exchange for a debt-ceiling increase.
Obama and his team, not surprisingly, see things very differently -- they secured a decent deal with new tax revenue yesterday; they broke two decades of GOP opposition against higher rates, which was hard to imagine a year ago; and they have no intention of giving Republicans anything in exchange for a new debt limit.
If the White House stands firm, it'll make the fiscal agreement look that much better. If Obama caves, the deal will look that much worse.
As the machinations get underway in earnest, keep in mind we'll see bipartisan talks even if the president sticks to his guns because of a confluence of events: in two months, the automatic sequestration cuts will be set to kick in, and in March, funding for the government will run out. Both sides will discuss ways to avoid unpleasant outcomes, but that doesn't necessarily mean Obama is negotiating over the debt ceiling.
The key will be Boehner's arbitrary dollar-for-dollar rule on debt-ceiling increases -- for every dollar the limit goes up, the Speaker expects another dollar in savings. By this reasoning, Boehner seriously expects Democrats to agree to another $1.5 trillion in spending cuts -- independent of the sequester, the Budget Control Act, and the next budget fight -- sometime between now and the end of February.
Obama says that's not going to happen. Stay tuned.
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Obama did not rule out use of the 14th amendment.
Here is a story from NPR on the legal argument you can listen to or read. (source)
This will utterly drive the T Party nuts. To quote Boehner/Cheney, they can go F themselves.
I am one who is always happy when people live up to my hopes rather than down to my expectations. With Obama, you never can tell. Let's watch him if he tries to give away the store with "Chained CPI" on Social Security that has nothing to do with deficit reductions.
According to Grover ( the snake, not the puppet) Obama is a "lame duck."
So, in a real world, he would tell the Republicans to "go Cheney themselves" over the debt limit.
Sadly, we no longer reside in a real world.
I would love to see Obama invoke the 14th amendment. As Zasloff pointed out, no one could sue Obama in court for doing so. The most that could happen would be that the House could bring articles of impeachment, but the Senate would never convict him. Then any Democrat could run against any Republican who voted to impeach Obama on the basis of wanting to crash the U.S. and global economy as an alternative, and Democrats could probably pick up quite a few more seats in 2014.
actually we do live in the real world where President Obama is only a president and not a dictator. As much as he would love to get rid of the consitution and the house and senate he doesn't have the power. He works for Us. and I must say, the people that have some smarts think he is doing his job in a manner that makes Carter look like a business genius.
oh please....guessing another right winger who thinks the minority is so so much smarter than everyone else. The carter comparisons did not turn out too well, did they?
Hey there chem, maybe the teapubs should be reminded THEY work and get elected by the people and not the uber rich. Yanno, teapubs only want to pass laws for the rich, tax breaks for the rich, laws for big business to walk all over everyone, and the best one, welfare for big business when they don't even need it.
As far as the Constitution, if the teapubs think it's so great and are always waving it around, why do they always talk about changing it?
Well, I guess that when you wear the distortion glasses that Norquist sports, then an American Eagle could look like a lame duck, despite the fact that it doesn't even quack like a duck.
If it ever descends to the issuing-of-platinum-coins point, may I suggest instead of two or three one trillion dollar ones, that they mint a few thousand billion dollar ones? There are probably a few billionaires who would love to own one or two, just to have another thing to hold over wanabees like Donald Trump.
And imagine what a boon it would be to the insurance industry, to cover private owners of the coins.
"The full faith and credit of the United States of America shall not be questioned..."-14th amendment.
To do so is unconstitutional. Raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with spending which congress can take up at any time if they want to cut spending...but refusing to pay for what we've already spent in order to gain political advantage over some area of spending is blackmail, extortion and should not be tolerated by the WH. Obama should just refuse to tolerate it and just direct the treasury to pay its bills...and tell Cantor and Boehner to just "sue me...the full faith and credit of the United States shall not be questioned (or challenged Cantor)".
There it is in black and white and clear as a bell, now please Mr. President invoke it!
bjobotts- what law school did you attend- likely one that did not teach constitutional law- the full faith and credit concept was a result of the civil war and the need to finance the reconstruction of the south- putting aside the context- to verbally challenge something can not by definition be "unconstitutional"- again you probably never read Marbury vs Madison- something is unconstitutional if a legislative body adopts a statute that violates the constitutional or the executive branch takes an action which for example exceeds its constitutional authority-
revenue bills orginate in the house- not the white house-
Of course you are correct. Revenue bills originate in the House. What you seem to be missing is that the increase in the debt ceiling is to pay for those bills that have already been passed. Refusing to do so is, in fact, jeopardizing the full faith and credit of the United States as the money has already been spent.
The President - who by the way IS a Constitutional Law scholar (Harvard Law, taught Constitutional Law at Columbia School of Law) is well aware of his duty to protect the full faith and credit of the US, even if it means invoking the 14th Amendment.
Question is if he has the nads to do it... and on that I am not sure...
Debt and ceiling used in the same sentence? With democratic support? Har-dee-Har, ain't gonna happen.Give me them digits baby, you know you want Billhillie !! Not your dum-phone number the percentage number.How much private sector money do you need to make things fair and "fix" stuff.
Call me maybe? Well I reckon we got a high maintenance government.Washington's little princesses only walk on rose petals.
There is a term in the intelligence community for operations like this: Blowback
Create a crisis blame it on someone else (preferably your opposition) and take credit for fixing it...
If you go study the political history of Weimar Germany between 1929-33, when the Nazis started getting enough votes to get representatives in the Reichstag, this is exactly what they did: create crisis after crisis, fail to help the democrats solve them, then blame the government for not solving the crisis and offer themselves as saviors. Recalling January 20, 1933, it worked....
Yes, but it appears to me that the GOP is losing not only seats in both Houses, but the entire cachet it once had, without reason, with mainstream Americans. It has blown its cover.
My prediction: no debt ceiling limit crisis that approaches anything like real. They simply can't afford another plummet to the bottom of public opinion.
That's the problem though...they just do NOT care not one little bit about the rest of America, only about what their districts think and as long as they are elected from fortresses of tea party insanity they will behave that way.
Unless Someone figures out a way to shift the demographics in those districts in a hurry we are stuck like this
...they just do NOT care not one little bit about the rest of America, only about what their districts think and as long as they are elected from
Dragoon,
That statement applies to all members of Congress.
Since we have reached the debt ceiling, couldn't the President start enforcing it by eliminating any spending he doesn't like? E.g., order Guantanamo closed; order the closure of all government offices in Republican districts for the next fiscal quarter; commute all drug sentences; order cessation of enforcement of drug laws for the next fiscal quarter. Somebody has to decide which spending will cease, and isn't he "the decider"?
He could do a new order every day. Is there a reason why not?
Always nice to watch magical thinking in play.
"Magical"? The government really did hit the debt ceiling, 12/31/2012. And, the debt ceiling is a law, and the President enforces the laws.
Don't read the news much?
Hey, that would work. I suspect he would pay politically in Republican districts for closing all their offices, but ordering Guantanamo closed and commuting drug sentences sounds like an excellent way to use executive power to cut spending. :-)
The problem with changing the laws by executive order is; first, it is sort of dictorial in nature. The second problem comes when the next (other party) guy becomes president (errrr dictator) he/she makes orders that make you cry like a little child and scream for constitutional protection. Don't be stupid and shoot yourself in the butt!
I can't wait to get my hopes down, oh wait, yes I can?!
This statement is not true.
So long as Obama and the Democrats cave the pattern will continue.
The Republicans watched with glee as Obama caved on the 250K cap on continuing the Bush tax cuts. Remember this was something Obama campaigned on not once but twice. They laughed when Obama couldn't hold to moving the next crisis to a year away. Then couldn't even hold it to three months away.
Obama has said he wouldn't budge on a lot of things and, time after time, he caves.
Everybody from Robert Reich to Paul Krugman to Richard Trumka has complained about Obama's lack of spine. Ezra Klein has reported the Republicans continue with the hostage taking precisely because they don't take anything Obama says seriously.
The problem is not the Republicans. The problem is Obama.
Obama, AKA Cavey McCaverson.
Fave: You are one of those "perfection" people it seems, a monday morning quarterback. Reich and Krugman are indeed very knowledgeable and bright, and it would be great if they were in power. But the rub is that they are not politicians, not elected represenitives. Obviously you are against this fiscal slope deal, and you have attempted to give cover to the obstructionists rather than support the the truth. It's kind of a reverse Messiah Syndrome with folks like you, you folks buy that right wing nonsense about Obama being the Messiah by attributing to him some magical power that he does not have. It's certainly your choice and right to feel that way, but reality sure hits you in the face when the rubber hits the road.
Cavey McCaverson, lolz. Lebowsky is not a fan BTW..
As a perfectionist though I must insist upon the full name, Cavey Spelunker McCaverson III.
/snark
Completely untrue - you don't know me and therefore you don't know what you're talking about.
And you are here to enlighten us? Bwaaahaha.
Folks like me - again you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know me at all.
Here's the reality. I have backed up everything I've said. I never said Obama could wave his hands and get anything he wants. YOU put words in my mouth to make yourself feel better.
DaveFave: Ever hear of something called qualifiers? I inserted one in the first sentence, "it seems". In fact, you purposely left it out "it seems". Since I did take Psyche 101 in College, I feel I am also qualified to comment on the projection you are projecting, obviously a nerve was irritated because in the context of the discussion you are all over the place. You say Obama negotiating weakness is the problem, not the Republicans in the first post. Then you "seem" to at the same time in the last post say Obama has no magic power. How is it then that you demand complete compliance and adherance to campaign promises as a way to judge him? So if he does not get 100% "he is the problem", not the obstructionists? Sure "seems" like you are biased against Obama, and thats perfectly your right to feel that way.
I don't - again putting words in my mouth to make yourself feel intelligent.
Obviously they didn't cover redundancy in your 101 English class.
My objection was to even saying it seems that I am one of those "perfection" people based on one limited observation. You extrapolated out an entire political perspective based on one position. Perhaps, if you had gotten though 101 Logic, you would understand that.
By the way - from your other posts on this board I notice you can't handle letting others have the last word so I will preemptively hand that honor to you. I have to work for a living.
Come on @Trollop
Who could have done better...who? Arm chair quarter backs may be good Doctors and Economists but not quarterbacks. Who could have done better or gotten more up against this "too wealthy to be affected by collapse or economic disaster and could care less about reality fantasy dwelling distorted short sighted tea pee repubs"? You can't negotiate in good faith with these goobers who would shoot themselves in the foot just to see your reaction.
Pressure Obama to do what you think he should do, pressure him to be more progressive...but don't mock him when no other could have done more. Mock the idiots who have no business even being in government...the republicans.
You are the one who is hyper sensitive about people being critical of policies obama is helping to pass , not FaveDave , and you went on a rampage about DISGUSTEDWITHITALL , for disrespecting and insulting posters in here , look in the mirror Dude
To me it is fine to disagree with one another on here , we are not all cut from the same cloth , but don't whine about it , while you flame others , the deal has a lot of lame parts , people have a right to point them out
Pat: Your friend Disgusted insulted other posters here, I don't do that. I have plenty of complaints about Obama, a long list. Too bad for you that you have decided to back up your insulting friend over reality, by all means go ahead and point out where I "flamed" anyone, I guarantee there was a personal insult attached. FaveDave insulted me as well, and I went ahead and made him look foolish. Facts should matter to you, but it's your choice to be butt-hurt over me schooling an insulter.
We should have gone over the cliff. $4.5 trillion in new revenue over ten years, and a silver bullet, coated in garlic, into the heart of the Defense vampire.
Let the Republicans shut things down. Even with gerrymandered districts, the house will flip in 2014 faster than pancakes at IHOP.
I don't always agree with Lawrence and his predictions are sometimes wrong(Tim Pawlenty...others) I thought the challenging tagg romney to a cage fight was a tad dumb also....That said he absolutely pegged and perfectly baited the republicans on election nite 2010 with his emphasis on the debt ceiling he may be owed quite a bit of credit for the 2012 results based on it actually....
Are the GOTP just that dayum thick or do they really have NO CLUE about how/what government is supposed to do and what role they are supposed to fill in their current jobs? The "debt ceiling" is for money that has already been committed for which the bill is now due! That money that was spent on: 2 unfunded and very unnecessary wars, 2 sets of tax cuts skewed towards the top 2%, a Medicare donut hole so that seniors were not forced to make the choice between food or medicine - all of this was done under a GOTP led White House & Congress - can someone tell the GOTP that the bill is NOW DUE and must be paid!!
We have allowed a bunch of selfish, power grabbing, know nothings to represent US in Congress, and frankly shame on US for allowing ourselves to be so dumbed down as to vote these idiots into office! The reality is that it's been GOTP intransigence that lowered the "Full Faith & Credit of the United States" - and it obviously didn't matter because they want to do so again, really?!? What is it going to take before WE admit that the GOTP in their current incarnation are traitors to America and to US? Their behavior regarding everything: ideas, policy, acknowledging that money has already been spent, etc. - even on things they once supported has been totally bassawkard and traitorous to US and unreasonable in light of the fact that they money was spent on their watch, that policies that they supported: deregulation, laisse-faire free-market capitalism - all of which failed! And still they have the nerve to pretend like it never happened, really?
While I would love to believe that President Obama is going to stick to his guns - past performance = shaky confidence in his following thru - and has my knees weak! If I could tell him one thing it would be to stop thinking that he's dealing with Sasha & Malia when they were 3 years old - NO Mr. President, these churlish, overly spoiled children need to be spanked hard, humiliated, shamed before the people and forced to face a few hard truths - if they want to cut "entitlements" here is a start to the list:
1) Cut welfare to BIG OIL/COAL/PHARMA/AGRICULTURE - and by Agriculture I mean Agribusiness subsidies to the rich & corporate!
2) Cut welfare to those BIG DEFENSE CONTRACTORS - let them all go out to the FREE-MARKET, or better yet invest in something that isn't about killing!
3) Cut out the welfare to the rich & corporate thru the loopholes in the tax code, stop pretending that "Capital Gains" shouldn't be taxed at higher levels!
4) Put a transaction tax on all of those "Speculators" out for quick bucks!
5) Raise taxes on Corporations!
3)
My shaking my head has now turned to shaking my fist. The GOP's arrogance and cruelty knows no bounds. Now, they are refusing to vote on relief for victims of Hurricane Sandy? I am emotionally exhausted and fed up with these people. They seem to forget that this is OUR money that they are deciding on how to spend, that it is OUR money who pays their salaries, and that they are public servants. There should be some sort of review of their job performance in office and a way to penalize them for inaction, obstruction for the sake of obstructing, and on and on. There should be more than just voting them out that we can do. If they were in the private sector, they would have been gone. I was beginning to take the fiscal cliff fiasco personally, I was beginning to think this was our "payback" for re-electing President Obama.
Paula - You're right the way to get them out of office is to VOTE, and that's why they're still in office, their "constituents obviously reelected them!
2) You're right this is "payback" to the American people for voting for "the Black man" to return to the "White House"!
Frankly I see what the GOTP is doing is called TREASON - which if convicted means jail-time, fines/penalties and a banishment from public office for life!
I have now gone from shaking my head to shaking my fist. The GOPs arrogance and cruelty knows no bounds. Now, they are refusing to vote on relief for Hurricane Sandy victims? They seem to forget that this is OUR money they are making decisions on how to spend, that it is OUR money who pays their "undeserved" salaries, and that they, themselves, are public servants. I wish that we had an option besides voting these people out, like some kind of review of their job performance, and to stop rewarding them for their inaction, their obstruction just for the sake of obstruction, etc.... I am emotionally exhausted and fed up with these people. If they were part of the private sector, they would have been gone. I was beginning to take this fiscal cliff fiasco personally, I was beginning to wonder if this was "payback" for re-electing President Obama.
Ugh, sorry I didn't think this posted, so I rewrote it and posted it again, sorry....
The Tea Party and Republicans are going to be looking for revenge for what they perceive as a loss on the tax issue. I have no doubt they are going to be pushing this all the way to get what they want and that is entitlement cuts including Social Security which should not even be a part of the discussion. The debt ceiling fight is going to be a long protracted battle because the House Republicans are not going to negotiate any bipartisan agreement. They will have to be pushed into an agreement by public opinion, primary challenges backed by Republican establishment money and another downgrade of our credit rating. The Dems only way out is to let the sequester take place and the effects start with the defense cuts.
Okay, we have two laws: the current Budget Act, passed under Congress's Constitutional budget power, which has spent money and incurred debt in the nation's name, and the debt ceiling law, which gives Congress the power to refuse to raise an arbitrary "debt ceiling" mentioned nowhere in the Constitution. These laws are in conflict (Congress can't simultaneously spend money and refuse to spend it), which means the Supreme Court decides which law prevails. I think Obama's planning to ask to SCOTUS to invalidate the ridiculous debt ceiling law and disarm the GOP hostage takers once and for all.
invalidate the ridiculous debt ceiling law
Of course, why should there be a limit? Let's shoot for $25 Trillion....or $50 Trillion. Oh the hell with it, everybody gets everything - make it $100 Trillion.
The time to impose spending limits is BEFORE you spend the money, not AFTER. Sure, go ahead and cut up the credit card -- but if you refuse to pay the bill sitting in your mailbox, you create enormous problems for yourself. If, for example, Bush had considered the cost before he started a totally unnecessary war in Iraq or before he gave an enormous tax cut to the richest Americans, we wouldn't have such a big debt. Why does the debt only matter when there's a Democrat in the White House?
skip has been corrected on that to many times , gop brain
he gave an enormous tax cut to the richest Americans
The Bush era cuts - as they are still called - benefited everyone. And the extension of those same exact tax cuts for all but those in the upper brackets will continue to add to the deficits. I believe the tax cuts for the middle and lower class accounted for 80% of the cost (amount added to the deficits for the past decade) and will continue to add to the deficits. The richest Americans are no longer part of the tax cut, so the ongoing addition to the deficit from the continuation of these cuts can not be blamed on them.
I for one had a problem back when the Republicans started these massive deficits and I still have a problem with them still occuring 4 years after a Republican was in the oval office or had a majority in Congress. Dalloway, do you think the deficits and debt are a problem now or are you only concerned when the Republicans were doing it.
Pantango,
Nothing to correct - my independent (not GOP) brain bitched back then about the deficits and debt. And I do understand very well that we must pay for things already spent. We just have to slow down the pace of adding more to it.
To Dalloway:
You are so right, again we are in the mess we are in because of those 2 unpaid for wars, and the prescription drug plan for Medicare that Bush totally underestimated the cost of, and now they turn to President Obama and hold his feet to the fire!? Not to mention the fact that they obstruct everything this man tries to do to get the economy running again....ie; the Jobs act, Farm Aid... I feel just like the movie Ground Hog day, like this is just one continuous loop... ugh.
Spending and the debt ceiling are not mutually related in the way that you're representing Skip.
The debt ceiling has to do with raising the amount that can be bonded so that interest payments can be made on currently existent foreign debts. Granted I agree that we need to lower spending as much as possible, but the idea that the debt ceiling has anything to do with our current deficit/debt is over blown.
Point taken Cartoon. I guess I wasn't too clear, but my point was the fact that as long as we continue to incur debt through more spending, we will never really be able to stop raising the debt ceiling. We must stop/slow down now, so that in the future we may not hit the debt ceiling (at whatever that level is in the future).
OK clarity accepted ;-)
Personally,
I do think raising the debt ceiling closer to $20 Trillion a bit of a crisis. I guess you could say it was "imposed" by the Republicans for driving up the debt - which is still going on even after they left the majority and executive office years ago.
I do find it ironic that one of the biggest drivers of the debt for the past decade or so was the "Bush era" tax cuts - with about 80% of that amount coming from the very same tax classes that just got it saved for them, apparently permanently. The left bitched about these exact tax cuts for years, but somehow over the past year or so, they now champion them, and they are still unfunded.
Strawman.
The left stated they did not want to see these cuts repealed until the recession was over. Obama is the person who has pushed wanting to see them permanent. That's because he's not left wing.
If you're going to refute your opposition then do so on the basis of what your opposition is actually arguing and not a sarcastic misrepresentation thereof.
OK cartoon, but I will wait to see if any of the left wing will complain about this being permanent. They may have been for only until the recession is over, but I do not think they are really that miffed about them being pemanent. THAT if anything would be a sarcastic mirepresentation - the left not being in favor of these kind of tax cuts.
Okay Skip, I'll back re-instating all the Clinton (D) tax rates, if you'll support returning to the pre-Reagan marginal rates - 70%, I believe.
In case you hadn't noticed, it was once those marginal rates were reduced and then eliminated that our economy began malfuntioning.
I don't see how any current parent of underage children can possibly support what the Democrats are doing...........binding your children's futures with more, and more, and more debt. Zero spending cuts from today's deal. Am I the only person on the planet who understands banks and borrowing? The party will indeed end, and your children will be quite unhappy sweeping up your piggy mess!
My piggy mess? What about the Republicans' piggy mess of the Iraq war, the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit,, the financial crisis (caused by Republican deregulation), all unpaid for after Clinton left us with a surplus? Get a clue, Mike.