Associated Press
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) has an op-ed in the Houston Chronicle today, explaining why he believes it's responsible to hold the debt ceiling hostage until President Obama "puts forward a plan" that makes Republicans happy. The piece is filled with errors of fact and judgment, but there was one truly bizarre claim that stood out for me.
"The coming deadlines will be the next flashpoints in our ongoing fight to bring fiscal sanity to Washington," the Texas Republican wrote. "It may be necessary to partially shut down the government in order to secure the long-term fiscal well being of our country."
Just at a surface level, this is ridiculous -- to prevent possible trouble in the future, Cornyn intends to cause deliberate trouble now? But even putting that aside, I'm not sure if the senator understands the nature of the controversy. Failing to raise the debt limit -- that is, choosing not to pay the bills for money that's already been spent -- doesn't just "partially shut down the government," it pushes the nation into default and trashes the full faith and credit of the United States.
Does Cornyn, a member of the Finance and Budget committees, not understand this? Just as importantly, is Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) equally confused?
"By demanding the power to raise the debt limit whenever he wants by as much as he wants, [President Obama] showed what he's really after is assuming unprecedented power to spend taxpayer dollars without any limit," McConnell argued on the Senate floor.
At the risk of being impolite, McConnell's comments are plainly dumb. As a policy matter, it's just gibberish, and the fact that the Senate Minority Leader doesn't seem to know what the debt ceiling even is, after already having threatened default in 2011 and planning an identical scheme in 2013, raises serious questions about how policymakers can expect to resolve a problem they don't seem to understand at a basic level.
For the record, Congress, by constitutional mandate, has the power of the purse. Unless you're Ronald Reagan illegally selling weapons to Iran to finance a secret and illegal war in Nicaragua, the executive branch can't spend money that hasn't already been authorized by the legislative branch.
If the president had the authority to raise the debt ceiling on his or her own, it would not give the White House the authority to "spend taxpayer dollars without any limit," since any administration would still be dependent on Congress for expenditures. The debt limit has nothing to do with this -- spending authority would be unchanged no matter which branch had the power over raising the limit, and whether the ceiling existed or not.
It's really not that complicated. Congress approves federal spending, the executive branch follows through accordingly. When the legislative branch spends more than it takes in, the executive branch has to borrow the difference.
In the 1930s, Congress came up with the debt ceiling, mandating the White House to get permission to borrow the money that Congress has already spent. If McConnell, Cornyn, and their hostage-taking friends refuse to raise the ceiling, the administration can't pay the nation's bills. It's that simple.
Either GOP lawmakers like McConnell and Cornyn haven't yet grasped these basic details, or they're cynically hoping the public is easily misled by bogus rhetoric. Either way, there's little hope of a sensible public debate if Senate Republican leaders repeat nonsense about a looming national crisis.
Leave a Comment:
The are not speaking to folks like us. They are speaking to the only demographic they dominate, the lowest common denominator class...
McConnell gives turtles a bad name (Whatta photo!).
So wrong on so many levels.
Give the markets a break for 6 whole weeks, then start saying stupid @!$%#t,, unless your shorting the market now....
they're cynically hoping the public is easily misled by bogus rhetoric
Bingo!
Given the vast amount of proof that H.L. Mencken was right when he noted in 1924 that "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public," and how much success the Republicans have had so far in 145 years of bamboozling the American public, of course they are continuing their traditional strategy.
When did American Republican leadership decide they were the end-all, be-all for this planet...this insignificant subsection out of a populous of 7 billion.
The wants of these white male megalomaniacs are affecting not only everyone in our country but everyone across the globe (case in point, climate change and economic stability).
We can't leave Obama holding the bag for shutting these crazed idiots down...
Obama has staked out a smart position. Republicans want him to suggest unnecessary and unpopular spending cuts to make a deal so he would own them. By saying he will not negotiate, he has taken himself out of any position wherby he can make proposals. Even if some kind of deal is made, it will be clear who the bad guys were.
C'mon Steve...they are lying and they KNOW they're lying. They are just hoping the 'American People' don't know they are lying. You don't want to raise the debt ceiling? Don't vote in a budget that REQUIRES it. But they will appeal to SOME crazies...Cliff? Cliff? Where are you?
Agreed.
We're suppose to panic and hand over the country to them.
The call the bluff, we'll stand the pain as it gets rid of Repubs.
i believe their hatred for President Obama, AND THEIR LOSS TO HIM, is the driving force behind their idiotic and stupid statements. they don't even care how stupid they sound. some people/voters actually believe this sh!t. they are counting on that.
apparently the election of 2012 was not enough proof that they are stupid, as they are continuing their UNEMBARASSABLE stupidity.
Suezette, they've been doing this crap since 1868. It's called What Republicans Do. My great grand uncle, who worked for Harry Truman for 30 years told me "The only 'good Republicans' are pushing up daisies," 60 years ago. It's the nature of the beast.
Congress has a firm (Constitutional) grip on the Nation's credit card, but the checkbook is located at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue- the same address the mailman brings the monthly bills.
Not a good way to run a family or a government.
Day,
Both the credit card and the checkbook are held by Congress. The Congress authorizes both spending and taxes.
The only constitutional powers the President has in this area is to veto changes in spending or taxes and to refuse to spend money appropriated by Congress.
This situation is akin to a socialite spending far more than his income and then blaming his personal banker (i.e. treasury) for setting up a line of credit to cover the shortfall.
No. He has a Constitutional responsibility to see that the law is faithfully executed, and that means he has to spend money on programs even when he hates them.
Seriously -- do you think Bush43 would have continued to spend money on Social Security, Medicare, Title Ten, and all of those other laws that the Right hates so much (especially after he went lame duck in 2005) if all he needed to do was shut them down by Presidential fiat?
DC,
Presidents have refused to spend funds appropriated by Congress in the past, often for pork-barrel spending in the Department of Defense. ("Gee, we just could not find a contractor that could meet our specifications for the project...")
Entitlement programs are different from other programs, for the law authorizing them sets up a mechanism for automatic payment for all qualifying (hence the name 'Entitlement program').
The more I listen to these idiots the more I am convinced that they do not understand how our government works.
I'm with you, but there are low-information sheeple that buy this nonsense. It also reminds me that their constituents aren't the brightest bulbs in the pack either - otherwise they'd vote for anyone else!
Coryn and McConnell are either idiots or a liars. Quite a choice to make for yourself.
No, not about this they're not. They know Obama has shown no spine. They assume this will help them in moving the country to the right even further than Obama has let them despite the fact Republicans have a diminished power position.
It's up to Obama to stop it. He has the power to stop it. We should judge Obama on whether he will stop it.
Why choose, just call them Idiotic-Liars, 2 birds one stone, you have to admit, McConnell does look kind of faul in that picture and a Jive one at that.
Because they are not idiots. Their goal is to move the country to the right. They have been successful beyond a reasonable person's nightmares. And they are just continuing to do what has lead to their success.
Understand your enemies and do NOT underestimate them. They have taken your lunch money already, and despite their diminished power the rightward lurch of the country continues under Obama's weak leadership.
There you go again, interpreting defeat in the face of success.
Honestly, your comments are so boring AND inaccurate. Obama's election and the results of the last fiscal crisis we just survived was a point of progress towards the left.
You only perceive the negative and defeat. That was true all during the election where you trumpeted gloom and doom and almost celebrated the impending "victory" of the Republicans.
Are you negative about everything else in your life also? Must be fun to be around...
The country is more right on 1/4/13 than on 12/31/12. That is not success. That is losing when you should be winning. Thinking like yours enables the continuing lurch to the right. That's all you need to know.
YOU are the problem.
Honestly, your comments are so boring AND inaccurate. Obama's election and the results of the last fiscal crisis we just survived was a point of progress towards the left.
If you believe that, I've got some swamp property you'll not be able to resist buying. Lefty morons are far more moronic than righty morons.
Actually Disgusted YOU are the problem, to be more accurate, your attitude is the problem. The only difference between you and the far right tea party is, you're on the opposite ends of the political scale. But you both share the same delusional, inaccurate and totally flawed idea, that your side is inherently right.
This country has always tried to walk a line between the political left and right. Often times sway more to one side than the other, and back again. Just because this country is not as liberal as you may like it to be. There isn't anything inherently wrong with being conservative. As there isn't anything inherently wrong with being liberal. The inadequacies lay in the attitude of the person holding which ever belief.
The real problem in this country are people like you and the Tea party. Which has this absurd notation that no negotiating with the other side, is the only way to solve our problems. That attitude is what help create most of them to begin with. Neither side is going to force the other side to give up everything they hold dear to them. And it's not a sign of weakness to to negotiate. in order for this country to truly move forward, both sides are going to have to give up something they hold dear.
If this country is to far to the right for you. I will be more than gladly to buy you and your family a fist class ticket to the liberal country of your choice. But if you are going to stay here and participate in this country's political system. Than do so as an adult and not some whinny spoiled brat, who refuses to give up anything and constantly cries about weakness, while stomping down the street as if someone stole his f*cking bike.
Standing in defiance while screaming WE will not Negotiate" is not sign of Strength. It's a sign of cowardliness. Because strength comes from making sacrifices not refusing them. It's inherently weak to defy, just because you do not want to give anything up all. And try to bend or break the other side to your will.
This country will only get better, when both parties are sitting at the table. If the Dems sit by in defiance as the GOP is doing now, nothing will ever get solved. If you fail to comprehend that simple idea. Than you can join the Tea Party on the side lines, because you share the same attitude that is obsolete, no longer needed and vastly becoming politically irrelevant.
Good grief. Actually, the President has already said there wouldn't be negotiating over the debt ceiling.
The rest of your screed sounds like a bad preacher's sermon written after a week-long drunk.
I just have to say to you Calvin that I think you're about as clueless as they come. You must be a founding member of the DLC or the Neville Chamberlain Admiration Society.
Re: #6.7
Oh for crying out LOUD!!
I do not agree with @Disgusted on everything but your "analysis" and accusations are completely wrong - IMHO.
Not negotiating with terrorists is standard procedure. That does not mean you don't try to save the hostages.
You stated "Because strength comes from making sacrifices not refusing them." You seem to think that this only goes for people like Disgusted and not the Republicans.
You stated "And try to bend or break the other side to your will." I would argue that this is EXACTLY what the Republicans are trying to do.
I have not read anything by Disgusted that implies that there doesn't need to be discussion and compromise to find a workable solution (that would be finding the balance between the right and the left). What I and Disgusted and a whole lot of other people find offensive is the threat by the Republicans to destroy the full faith and credit of the USA and crash the global economy to get what they want.
Samonelle,
Are you KIDDING ME? Because this country took a beating instead of dying, that is considered a success??? Frankly, I'd prefer if this country STOPPED taking beatings. That would be a success for me!
Is it a success that all Obama could get was a few measly dollars from the ultra-rich to save 3 Million people who have lost their jobs because of the ultra-rich? Is it a success that YOU have to pay 2% more of your income to payroll tax hikes, when the maximum a millionaire will have to pay if he is not smart for his tax increase, is about 2.9%?
Is it a success that our country is STILL being held hostage by a right wing Republican minority?
It it a success that the only way to stop this corporate influence is to negate Citizens United, yet nobody even mentions it anymore and certainly not Obama. Is it a success that corporations will be deciding who we vote for for years?
Is it a success that we don't have the Violence Against Women Act? Is it a success that we can't get a decent immigration policy?
Is it a success that the 1% keeps getting richer and everyone else's incomes are going down?
Is it a success that Obama was willing to use the Chained CPI to ensure that the elderly keep getting poorer?
Exactly WHAT is your definition of success? Or are you one of those people who thinks that if they only get screwed out of $50 instead of $75, that they are living the "high-life"?
Not worth the time, maphi. If someone doesn't understand those points by now, they're clueless. Seriously. You just don't negotiate with terrorists. And there's good reason for that. For me, it's just not worth taking the time to explain that to someone who hasn't figured it out by now.
Time for spine. Time for standing up to bullies. If that happens, we'll win. If not, it's a long slow road to Koch's Paradise. End of discussion.
And you, by your own admission, just proved my point. That you shared he same flawed attitude as those on the far right of this country.
Clueless, is your attitude of total defiance at all costs. Clueless, is your absurd tunnel vision political view, that gives you this narrow-minded pessimistic attitude, that blinds you to how the system needs to work. Which has you spewing meaningless-belittling-dribble, because you have no other way to intelligently articulate a counter point.
It's obvious you are farther to the left than I am. Which doesn't make either of us inherently right or wrong. The biggest difference between the two of us, is not our political views, but our attitudes towards the political process as it stands today.
You are more than welcome to stand there in defiance and scram "I will not budge." The rest of us, will still be trying to find a way, to fix this country. To bring this country and both parties together. So we can move this country to a better place, as one nation. And not a nation divided by the sum of it's parts. So while you and you Tea Party opposites, stand on the side lines arguing like children on a play ground. The rest of us, will have no problem leaving you there. Because as I said before, that attitude is no longer needed, wanted and is irrelevant.
I wish you were right Calvin, but you SO remind me of Neville Chamberlain......
Calvin: You are spot on, and I applaud your no-insult tone. It's OK for factions of the left to disagree strongly about any issue, but it's never OK to insult fellow commenters. Notice how immediately you were hit with insults, and it was implied that you are intoxicated. Thats how the Tea Party rolls, and apparently some of us too... unfortunately...
Dude Lundy, one side is not allowing it to work. I'll leave you to ponder as a homework assignment which side that is while you write more Hallmark cards on how the political process works.
Again, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES said he wasn't going to negotiate over the debt ceiling. Make sure you send him one of your cheery, mawkish, Hallmark civics lessons.
Lebowsky,
Spoken grandly by a guy (you) who will attack anyone who doesn't accept his "groupthink"!!
Salmonelie - Disgusted has made a few points 1) the President has shown way more over-eagerness to give up the kitchen sink during every negotiation - it does get disheartening. 2) The GOTP have shown that they are committed to yanking this nation hard right in their efforts to show their 2% pimps that they are worthy of the money they get from them. 3) Their treasonous efforts have been rewarded because the GOTP are still in control of the House and still obstructing the people's business!
Disgusted may sound negative, but I think Disgusted is just echoing the reality of what's happened in the past and what may continue to happen....
Disgusted
I am perfectly aware of which side is holding up how the Political System is supposed to work. And contrary to your assumption, I am not willfully ignorant to that fact.
I am also not ignorant enough to to think that, adopting the same attitude as them. Is somehow going to magically fix this country's problems, or make them see reason.
When someone is acting like an ass towards you. Acting like an ass towards them, seldom makes that person act like less of an ass. More often than not, their attitude becomes more @!$%#-ish in nature.
Nothing you have said -- NOTHING -- has been in the least bit convincing. It's like you've been asleep for 20 years. You simply don't understand the people you're dealing with. You just don't. It's that simple.
Just so you can't forget: THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES said he was not going to negotiate over the debt ceiling. Maybe as a further homework assignment you can review some recent history and come to some understanding why he might have said that.
Nevertheless, I'll be watching for you to update us when you get the reply from THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES after you plead with him for negotiations with the hostage takers.
Disgusted
A) I was not attempting to convince you of anything. I was merely stating my political view and opinion of how i feel the system should and needs to work, and how it differs from yous.
B) Exactly where in any of my posts, have I said that the President should be negotiating the Debit Ceiling. Nowhere, in any of them have I said that. Personally I believe he shouldn't be negotiating that at all. What I was saying, and you failed to comprehend is, I believe that their is a time to/not to negotiate. What I do not believe in, is the attitude that one should never negotiate at all.
C) Before you make an assumption of my political beliefs. You can ask me, because i have no problem in stating them to you at all.
D) The condescending attitude that you have towards me. Implying that I'm less intelligent or politically asleep. Is not only immature and childish, but also a not a sign of having an adult conversation. Which I have no problem having with you. What I do have a problem with, is your belief that since my views differ from yours. That makes me less intelligent, naive or some how mot as politically astute as you seem to think you are.
Now we can have a conversation one of two ways. Mindless-insulting-meaningless-dribble, or one as two adults. The former, I can inform you will not happen, as I see it as an exercise in futility, which I will not waste my time one. The latter is more than welcome, you decide.
CalvinLundy --
Afraid I see one logical end of your arguments as, "Both sides are delusional in thinking they are right about anything." So reality is unknowable. Facts are no more consequential than opinions, and everyone is entitled to his own opinion. It's impossible to use our brains as rational devices. So why bother?
Perhaps you might gain from a deeper study of how True Believers on either end of the spectrum deal with inconvenient facts.** Hint: One extreme ignores the facts and more passionately rationalizes its foregone conclusions; the other extreme is better able to incorporate discordant data and amend their conclusions appropriately.
You probably don't need me to reveal which extreme is which.
Have any of you actually READ HR 8? You should, and you should read it in conjunction with the CBO cost analysis and a copy of the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Act of 2001. Then you should read the Economist's analysis:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21569058-barack-obama-wrings-11th-hour-deal-taxes-john-boehner-and-republicans
So let's do an analysis:
We gained $30 Billion for Unemployment Insurance and we gained $42 Billion in more taxes from the rich. I am not including the other tax rates that weren't changed because, in reality, they weren't going to be changed anyway.
What did we loose? $115 Billion from no payroll tax cuts, $110 Billion for moving the Sequester for a couple of months, $$105 Billion from removing the AMT, and $203 Billion in pork for "special interests" like NASCAR. I'm holding back on the Medicare changes, because from reading the bill, I am not sure if they will be good for us or bad for us.
So did "we" win?? Or were we suckered again?
I am one of those people who thought HR 8 had to pass only because our unemployed needed it, but am I happy about it? NOT ON A BET! This was a BAD bill that favored the Republicans more than it favored the middle class and it galls me that Obama couldn't get anything better!! This was NO COMPROMISE - this was a SELLOUT!!! This was Neville Chamberlain telling Great Britain that he had a "compromise" with Hitler to "save" Great Britian from Hitler's agression!!!
So while all of you people out there who really DON'T understand what we lost because you never took the time to read the damn bill, well, you keep bragging about how this was a "win"! Yep, you keep bragging until you wake up one day and wonder what happened to this country!!
Oncearepublican: I don't "attack", I call out insulters. The fact that you take that as an attack says alot about you, as well as the Nazi appeasment angle you are pushing. Apparently you did not get the memo about Nazi references. Have a nice ALL CAPS day...
Oh...YES you do! And I am tired, quite frankly of your trying to impose your group-think on these blogs! Disgusted was here before I was and I have had my arguments with him/her too, and yep, sometimes they get heated, but we NEVER tried to "create" a "my way or the highway concensus" like you have done since you came here - and we never made it "personal" even though we do sometimes insult each other......
We are all individuals and we all think differently and we ARGUE vociferously sometimes, but we DO NOT try to create "groups" against one another like you have.
This was the great thing about these blogs: we could all have very different opinions and yet still be on the same side - I think that is called Democracy - we all DON'T have to "think alike"!
As for the Godwin - well, did you count the posts? What's my score?
It is COMPLETELY OBVIOUS that you missed my point about Neville Chamberlain. Look him up. He was a GOOD PERSON who thought that by being good and fair, he could compromise with a fascist monster like Hitler. In a fairy tale, that would have worked out.
Obama is a GOOD person, but he isn't going to win against the right wing nuts by always "giving more than he gets". He may have won a SMALL political victory, but at the rate he's going, he's going to lose the war!
Now, get off your high horse!! If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Sometimes I will think you are the smartest poster in the world and sometimes I will think you are an idiot - so what?
As long as you are not at troll (and you are not), I'll never take any argument we have as a long-lasting fued or personal.
Sorry you don't like the caps, but it's not like I am talking here and can emphasize my points......
@Calvin: Hopeless, just hopeless.
Once: What "groups"? I am Han Solo here, it seems like you are in the "group". The only strife I can see here is in regards to the deal, and your friend on here went ahead and insulted everyone not agreeing with him. I will admit to you that I do indeed use sarcasm when someone insults me, and I try to turn it around on them using the very words posted, but I don't insult or push "groupthink". Obviously the insulter poster here is quite popular, and thats fine, but that does not mean I won't call the guy out for insulting. It's not very different when a TP'er calls a fellow Republican a RINO, it's a form of my way or the highway. I say we need less of that. Have a good weekend...
No, they're not dumb. They're sociopaths telling ignoramuses things the ignoramuses think they already know. Which is pretty much what all of Republican politics and commentary have devolved into over the last twenty years. The sociopaths in politics do it to maintain their power and the sociopaths in broadcasting, blogging and book and column writing do it for money.
This is absolutely correct.
And there's only one way to stop it. Obama needs to stand up and state LOUDLY, CLEARLY, UNEQUIVOCALLY that there will be NO negotiation where the debt ceiling is used as a bargaining chip for the Republicans to cash in. Period.
A good place to start is the SOTU.
I have no confidence whatsoever Obama will do the necessary, correct, moral, right thing. None whatsoever.
@Disgusted
If there is no negotiating with hostage takers, please clarify exactly how President Obama can save the hostage (the entire global economy).
It would be nice if a third independent party ( the media perhaps) would call out these twit liars. Otherwise the liars will call Obama a liar, ad nausea.
And what were they thinking in 1930?
We might have to allow the debt ceiling to be breached.
But NO. MORE. NEGOTIATING. Period. This must be stopped. It doesn't take a genius to understand what the end result is if it doesn't. Can you see what the end result is if Republicans are allowed to continue with this. I sure hope so.
The GOP will back down. Some of them maybe crazy, but for their own survival, they'll come to their senses and raise the limit. Otherwise, they just might set off global anarchy on an unprecedented scale. They don't want to be responsible for that. If we breach, they'll try to blame Obama and lack of leadership or something. But in the end, it's their job, not Obama's. He shouldn't have to convince them. Obama only needs to tell them how much and to pay the bill. His mistake was negotiating in 2011. This isn't a win or lose or Dem vs. GOP issue. It's the welfare of the US. Wall Street will backslap some sense into them.
Correct NYC. Obama has the advantage of the Presidency. He can use the bully pulpit opportunity. He can educate the public in the SOTU. He can command attention simply by his position. He needs to use it. At this point, failure to do so makes him as guilty for the hostage-taking as the Republicans.
The 14th Amendment requires the US government honor its debts. This means when Treasury runs out of accounting tricks, the Treasurer will have to stop payments to some federal programs in order to make interest payments on the debt. And the Executive Branch will have to pick which payments to stop.
Effective the date necessary to avoid default, the President should direct Treasury to stop payments to Defense Department for most procurement and research, freeze new loans at the Small Business Administration, mothball all transportation projects, and close all national parks and monuments in order to honor the debt as required by the Constitution.
Whenever possible, these cuts should focus on districts represented by those refusing to raise the debt limit, so those causing the mess can experience the effects as fully as possible.
All should be announced ahead of time, and there should be a countdown clock for Congressional action to raise the debt limit and avoid the mess.
Re: #7.7
Section 4 of 14th Amendment:
"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."
--------------------
[I wonder what it was about "bounties" that was important enough to specifically mention.............whatever....]
"payment of pensions" sounds like Social Security checks to me.
---------------------
I agree with your statement,"Whenever possible, these cuts should focus on districts represented by those refusing to raise the debt limit, so those causing the mess can experience the effects as fully as possible."
However, if the credit rating of the USA is downgraded and the entire global economy is crashed, we will ALL pay the price for a very very long time.
Re: #7.6
I think you over-rate the power of the President. Can he educate the public? Yes. Can he command attention? Yes. Can any of this influence the Republicans? No.
He must refuse to negotiate over the debt ceiling. There's nothing left to be said. Carry on if you must.
they just might set off global anarchy on an unprecedented scale
Which of course is their goal. Per Hofstadter:
"The pseudo-conservative, Adorno writes, shows 'conventionality and authoritarian submissiveness' in his conscious thinking and 'violence, anarchic impulses, and chaotic destructiveness in the unconscious sphere…… The pseudo conservative is a man who, in the name of upholding traditional American values and institutions and defending them against more or less fictitious dangers, consciously or unconsciously aims at their abolition.'"
The President can influence Republican members of Congress by the political equivalent of hitting them upside the head with a 2"x4".
Nice little army base in your district, Congressman. Pity if anything were to happen to it.
Oh, so the aerospace contractor in your district is a major employer and contributor to your reelection? Aren't they dependent on the F-35 program?
National Lab in your district? Is your district dependent upon Tennessee Valley Authority Power? Ranchers in your district use public (BLM) land as summer range? Anyone drink milk in your district?
If rabid ideologues in Congress force the President to short programs until Congress comes to its senses, then the President should focus the effects on the districts of those behaving most irresponsibly.
It's time for the President to be just as nasty as the Republicans are. Fight fire with fire. There's a difference, though: the President is only fighting against hostage-taking. Republicans are the hostage-takers. Is there any better time to fight?
Disgusted,
If Congress forces the President to short payments, then President Obama gets to pick which programs to hurt while blaming Congress for forcing him to do it.
Instead of passing cuts through the House which will never be law, the President will have to make real cuts of his choosing because of irresponsible behavior by the House GOP.
Reaching the debt ceiling gives President Obama an opportunity to be nastier than the House GOP, for his actions will be real.
Everybody needs to understand what sort of creature today's Republican party is composed of. These creatures can not be reasoned with. There is no argument that affects their acceptance of their ideology. Their ideology IS the goal. Their value system is NOT "the greatest good for the many." It is their their religion, their isolation from government, their unacceptance of responsibility toward others. It does not matter to them if this leads to a banana republic.
They will deny reality to achieve these goals. They will sacrifice the Earth to achieve their ideology. It is not a reasoned discussion. It is not a debate anymore. Trying to reason with them is pointless, futile. The only thing they understand is ridicule and humiliation. This is a war. You KNOW this because you have seen it here on these forums with the trolls.
WE must stop them. The only way to do that is with power. They MUST be humiliated. They must be defeated.
Obama must NOT negotiate. The Republicans will lose. It is the only way.
@John: I'm not even concerned with the tactics that might be used to get Republicans to heel other than telling them no negotiation. Obama can tell them what he might do if Republicans then still insist on shooting the hostage, but he has to make it clear first and foremost, no negotiation.
"Either GOP lawmakers like McConnell and Cornyn haven't yet grasped these basic details, or they're cynically hoping the public is easily misled by bogus rhetoric."
"Uh, that would be 'Option B,' Monty."
Short-term stimulus / long-term debt reduction
The best way to cut spending on safety-net programs is not to cut how much you are allowed to spend, but to reduce the number of people who are reliant on these programs.
That means JOBS that pay a LIVING WAGE.
This is also a terrific way to increase revenue (people with jobs pay taxes).
When the roof of your house is leaking, you do whatever it takes to fix the roof, even if you have to take out a loan. [This assumes you want to stay living in the house.] Then you figure out how to pay back the loan - get a second job, get training to get a better job, and look at your spending and figure out where you can cut back (this does not mean making your kids go hungry).
I would like to quote John Boehner..."Go @!$%# yourself" Cornyn..
The first thing that needs to happen is to stop calling it the debt ceiling. Both words have no relationship at all to what it actually does. By continuing to call it a debt ceiling, the dummies out there will continue to believe that it means the equivalent to a credit card limit, something most people can associate. If this were framed properly, people would realize just how idiotic the whole thing is.
So you're saying we should call the debt ceiling what it really is? But "Arbitrarily chosen number that is mandated by Congressional law but wholly illeagal under Constitutional law" doesn't make for a good sound bite. Let's call it Mashed Potatoes.
This battle is a lose/lose situation for the elderly and disabled. Their social security and medicare/medicaide is on the line. Many are one check away from homelessness or being evicted from their care facility. Caregivers will not receive a check for their services. My elderly mother is calling me for reassurance daily and often. I know the Rethugs are just exercising their talking points, but people are frightened out of their wits. Republican cruelty knows no bounds. This news is making people sick with worry.
I seriously doubt that Cornyn and McConnell don't understand that the debt ceiling is all about paying the bills we have already incurred. They've been around long enough to understand precisely how that works. What they are betting on is that the American people are too stupid to understand it, and they are probably correct in that bet. They may have absolutely no idea how to govern, but they are experts at running propaganda campaigns. What I think they don't understand is the catastrophic effect that not raising the debt ceiling would have on the nation's and the world's economy. They were scared to death in the fall of 2008, when we were on the brink of a global depression, and they voted for TARP to prevent it from happening. They are now looking at triggering that very same catastrophe, and don't seem to understand it, like a small child playing with a loaded gun. They were willing to slit the nation's wrists last time over their self-manufactured debt ceiling crisis, and they seem perfectly willing and even anxious to do so again. As long as they have gerrymandered districts that virtually guarantee their re-election, they have no incentive to do the right thing.
Of course they understand the consequences! They are ready to be hostage takers and make demands. The hostage is the global economy. Can you think of a more valuable hostage?
It's going to be an ownership battle. Obama is going to make sure the Republicans fully own the default. I imagine he will invite a discussion over the sequestor cuts as long as he gets the clean debt ceiling bill that every other POTUS has gotten. He will barnstorm this, hopefully going to non-swing states for a change.
Betting on an American public that has been forcefully fed misinformation from legally established right wing propaganda and reconstituted events station , AKA , the Republican channel , or Rupert Murdoch's fair and balanced right wing talking points , versus reality . Twenty four hour counting the angels on the pint of a gin , or bust .
Consumption may cause global warming , and violence against reason .
How much are you willing to bet that they don't?
Re: #13.4
They will say they are not responsible.
They will say it is the fault of the President and the Democrats for not giving into their perfectly sensible* demands.
*according to them and their deluded followers
The Republicans know exactly what they are doing and what it will affect. They are betting that Obama blinks when they are holding the world economy hostage. This is the time for Obama to just say no and tell them to pass the debt ceiling bill. If he continues negotiating with repeated hostage taking, it will never end. We cannot go on running our government going from one hostage situation to the next. It is time for Obama and the Dems to end the charade. The opening public salvo should be the inauguration speech. However, until that time Obama and the Dems should be telling Republicans that "extraordinary" steps will be taken to meet this next hostage situation rather than negotiations. Let the Republicans do their hostage taking and watch the enormous pressure they will come under from business, Wall Street and the rest of the world. They will be held responsible by voters and the whole world for what happens by reason of this hostage situation. I seriously doubt the Republicans are going to go all the way but they will try. If Obama says no negotiations, it will take the Republicans by surprise and baffle them.
So, which of the television Sunday show hosts will call out every Republican for these deliberate lies about Congressional control of spending, the President's "powers to spend", the debt for past Congressional expenditures, etc. and not go on to another question or let them twist their own words? None? One? Any? Will David Gregory use the same tone of voice he used with the President last week when he questions any of the Republicans who appear?
"Dancing Dave" as Charles Pierce calls him, knows well to follow his master's rules.
TC -- Assuming for a moment that Dancing Dave does have a brain to interpret commands from somewhere, who do you think is his Master?
Bluster and demagoguery bullied into the arena of public discourse by these political weasels primarily to foment political anger and emotional irrationality against the Black man over there in the White House!
Plain and Simple, I see right through McConnell like a pane of glass/he's aged with graying temples/and he's grown out of any class! (apologies to Pete Townshend.)
To utter Constitutional falsehoods in public, through a microphone or on an op/ed page is the height of cynicism only a master like McConnell could pull off, and not be struck by lightning by his creator!
Mitch McConnell and his fellow Constitutional thugs need to have the following crammed down their intellects every time they misspeak - The Congress allocates public monies, it carries out the measures of budget allocations, spending and re-authorizations.
Boehner's House has the power of the purse, so he needs to man up and show us where his party wishes to go regarding budgetary expenditures on existing programs it has already passed into existence through the legislative process, and not recklessly say it will not continue to pay on the debts it has incurred along the way!
The Republican brand is creating a false crisis, proffered on their twisting and mangling of the Constitutional relationships between our executive and legislative branches, and presented in a divisive and derisive way to scratch the irrationality of the American electorate, cause they got nothing else cept their ire that they lost in the last election they invested so much in for so long to get rid of President Obama!
McConnell and his Republican cohorts must have forgotten how to walk and chew gum at the same time and now they want us to pick up their sticky resin gumming up everything President Obama wants to do for the middle class! -Kevo
NPR
Michael Gerson
syndicated columnist and author of "City of Man: Religion and Politics in a New Era."
Said the same thing. We are going to hear this over and over....
Jeanne Cummings
deputy government editor for Bloomberg News.
Said it again as well.
It is so very stupid.
After watching US politics, with interest, for a number of years, it's plainly obvious that reality doesn't play much part in the day to day horse trading.
The Republican leadership aren't interested in the average citizen, they don't provide the money that runs the Republican Party. They will do anything, and I do mean anything, to keep their backers happy.
The President has to stand firm and call the so-called "Debt Ceiling" bluff. This is the right time to do this, the chance to resolve this won't come again for many years.
Same old nonsense; keep throwing it against the wall and hope that some of it sticks.
Why on earth isn't every major business owner and heads of every financial district the world over calling out these idiots?! They think we have a debt problem now, wait 'til they crash the world economy. Get ready for the yen to be the anchor currency. Who would stick with the American dollar after this BS? I wouldn't...
This time they likely will back the President.
I think they are. I think a lot of the big business guys who backed the Republicans this cycle are calling them everyday and saying, "You'd better not default on the debt." They know, even if the tea party idiots don't, that this could spell financial ruin for the U.S., the world, and business. They are playing at brinksmanship, but they are too stupid to know when to capitulate.
Maybe they are. So what?
Remember, this is raw power politics -- and the only possible threat to the House Republicans is a primary challenge, and that's two years away.
Besides, they know perfectly well (however correctly or not) that when push comes to shove, Obama and the Senate Democrats will fold.
My point is Republicans are supposedly beholden to all the money, so if they destroy the dollar they destroy the hand that feeds them. In this case, I think it's a legit threat that business will go back to supporting Dems and moderate Repubs if these teabagger idiots tank the economy. There has to be a Wall Street to gamble on it...
Any soul that has not dealt with the complexity of being a little bit pregnant is unqualified to bicker with the saintly man like turtle from Kentucky .
President Obama, President Obama, PRESIDENT O-B-A-M--A. Republicans just cannot bring themselves to believe we have a president with a different skin color other than milky white. They do'nt want him to succeed because they're afraid another person with different skin color may be elected in the future if he does. They do'nt like people with different skin color, they have made that perfectly clear for many years. They think they're all freeloaders. Is'nt that what Romney said in his private meeting with his milky white donors? And he just happened to be the face of the republican party. Listen to Limbaugh listen to Trump listen the consertive talk shows then tell me they have respect for people of color.
That's not true. They'd be perfectly fine with orange.
Let's keep this in mind.....in fact, perhaps now is the time to act upon it. Why can't we the people, bring charges against these evil doers for their acts of sabotage and insurgency, for which they even admitted using insurgent methods? Two months after the Republican covert meeting where they plotted to sabotage the US Economy, in March 2009, Rep. Pete Sessions said Republicans should follow the model of the Taliban in its battles against the President. As per republican senator Pete Sessions call to action: "Insurgency is the way they went about systematically understanding how to disrupt and change a person's entire processes." Without repercussions, they will only continue to plot against the Country, evidenced by the recent threats about the debt ceiling and their insistence on destroying the People's credit as a means to an end. Tom Delay just got sentenced to prison for his sneaky antics of influence peddling while serving us. Why not these guys too? All they have is a bag of tricks used to blur reality.
Well, for starts because of absolute legislative immunity. And before you object to that, think what Bush43 and the whole "anyone who doesn't support the President is a traitor" theme ten years ago.
Then there's the whole business of the Constitutional ban on charges against a serving Congressman while Congress is in session, the ban on ex post facto laws, the impossibility of passing even trivial legislation (never mind a law that could be used against themselves), etc.
PS: no relation to Pete.
I've asked the same question several times but no one ever answers it. Does anyone know if WE can do anything to bring charges? I was just reading about this people's initiative. Is it all talk or can it be done?
IANAL. However, I'm extremely confident that the answer is "no."
McConnell is very creative with the constitution. First he stealth enacts a de facto amendment requiring the Senate to meet a supermajority threshold for almost any action. Now he thinks the American people won't remember the phrase "power of the purse." He's pitching to a low-information audience, but they'd have to have flat EEGs...
John Cornhole couldn't sell carpeting.. And Yurtle? Here we go again, simple minded Republicants who can't legislate their way out of a habitrail..
Which reminds me [This book should - IMHO - be required reading]:
Quotes From Yertle the Turtle by Dr. Seuss
“I’m Yertle the Turtle!
Oh, marvelous me!
For I am the ruler
of all that I see!”
“Your Majesty. Please…
I don’t like to complain.
But down here below,
we are feeling great pain.”
“And the turtles, of course…
All the turtles are free
As turtles and, maybe,
all creatures should be.”
For political hostage-taking to work, the GOP has to convince Democrats they are stupid and unpatriotic enough to tank the economy so the Democrats sacrifice their own political priorities to save the country from them. Democrats are better people and do love their country more, but Republicans already gave away the game when they caved, yet again, and cut a deal when the stakes weren't nearly as high for them.
They caved on the shutdown. They caved on disaster relief. They back down in the first debt-ceiling hostage crisis, and they just backed down on the cliff. Why on Earth would anyone think they'd hold firm on the debt-ceiling?