First up from the God Machine this week is the curious religio-political criticism directed at the fiscal agreement approved by policymakers in Washington this week. It didn't really occur to me that there might be a theological angle to the story, but I underestimated Bryan Fischer.
For those who can't watch clips online, my friend Kyle Mantyla reported:
Bryan Fischer is not at all pleased with the legislation passed last night by the House of Representatives in an effort to avoid the "fiscal cliff," declaring that it is a violation of the Ten Commandments' prohibition on covetousness, meaning that the Democratic Party is driven by a "Satanic" ideology and the resulting legislation is "demonic."
There was no word from Fischer as to why Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) would help craft a "demonic" fiscal agreement -- or for that matter, why 125 congressional Republicans voted for it.
Also from the God Machine this week:
* When there's a natural disaster, and affected areas are eligible for FEMA grants, funding damaged or destroyed houses of worship can raise difficult questions, most notably constitutional concerns related to public funding of religious institutions.
* I suspect many congressional Republicans won't care for the pope's New Year's message: "Pope Benedict said in his New Year's message on Tuesday he hoped 2013 would be a year of peace and that the world was under threat from unbridled capitalism, terrorism and criminality" (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
* In Jacksonville, N.C., this week, members of the Baysden Chapel Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church trooped down to the Onslow County School Board building to demand that public school students be allowed to pray voluntarily. When officials explained that students already have that right, the church members said there'd been a "misunderstanding" and quickly ended their protest.
* Pathetic: "In Italy, a Catholic priest has stirred widespread outrage after he blamed incidents of domestic violence on the way women dress. Father Piero Corsi's remarks were in a Christmas message he put on a church bulletin board; photos of the note soon went viral.... The title of message was 'Women and Femicide, How often do they provoke?'"
Leave a Comment:
One word descriptor
for dear Mr. Fischer -
Untethered! -Kevo
I prefer 'unhinged'...
'untethered' sounds too much like letting him loose...
tether |ˈteT͟Hər| noun
a rope or chain with which an animal is tied to restrict its movement .
The argument is whether the learned cleric is an animal .
I agree with Pope Benedict: Unbridled Capitalism is a great threat.
Unfortunately, it is the GOP's main agenda.
However, labeling the Democrat demand for higher taxes as covetous is right on point. Without makers you'd have nothing to take. For that matter this tax hike is nothing more than punishing success.
the paradox for the left here, is that without success, you have nothing to take.
hey Shooter242...you like that great "standard of living"? You like that police and fire department? You like those schools and the new ones we build? How bout those ammenities? Well, how in blazes do you think they're paid for? Raffles? Bake sales? It cost money to live in America. Pay and play.
Who should pay for 2 unnecessary wars? IThose 2 wars caused our deficit. shooter says its covetous to tax the rich. But isnt it also covetous to take away Earned Entitlements? So for ignorant GOP fanatics, the only way they can think of to pay off those 2 wars is to stick a finger up to millions of people that earned their right to have Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. shooter says its covetous of democrats to raise taxes on the rich but for GOP to eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? it is blatant THIEVERY! And because of this, the GOP will have one less hand to stick out for help.
The shooter gop post delusions that there are no successful democrats/liberals that have ever existed , on a blog that is built by successful liberals , who would make shooters accomplishments look like bad pan cake batter
These are the things we remember when they attempt to present a reasonable argument on any subject , they offer nothing but a bottomless pit of bad rhetoric for america
oh and please do not speak to harshly towards the shooter gop , the gop are are a sensitive group , they can hurl insults like that , but if you address them impolitely at all , it up sets their delicate sensibilities
Religious zealots , Keep your noses OUT of the political arena , There Is a reason that we have separation of church and state ! America has enough wrench's being tossed into the system without you Goof's interfering even further ! And Most of these wrench's that are being tossed into our politics is directly related to religious two-faced hypocrisy !
Shooter. How many times did Ronnie raise taxes? How many times did he get the debt ceiling raised? How much did he spend?
If these So-Called non-profit organizations known as churches and religious sanctuaries are going to continue to stick their noses and money and voices into our political system , then they had better start paying their fair-share taxes and exposing just how much cash that they the so-called non-profit organizations are actually racking-in from the taxpayers themselves ! I Don't know about You , but I have Never seen a Poor Preacher ! Air-conditioned Dog-Houses just might give Someone a Clue !
It's true that most of the red states are takers. many of them take far more than they put in. The GNOPers seem to think that they are the only ones that have a job and pay taxes. I doubt if that so called tax hike will increase shooter's tax bill. Shooter implies that democrats don't make much money and don't pay taxes. The three wealthiest individuals in the US are democrats. Sixty percent of the individuals on Forbes top 100 are democrats. Of the top twenty, 75% are democrats. The myth that republicans have more money and pay more taxes just doesn't stand up under scrutiny. It's kind of like the myth that only blacks, democrats and minorities get government assistance. I know this person who watches a lot of fox news, she was talking about how she didn't like people on the dole. It turns out she was getting VA benefits, from her late husband, Social Security, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid and assistance to pay for Medicare Part D premiums. BTW she is not black or a minority. I know a man who hates welfare, but his first two children were given prenatal care and delivered at Medicaid's expense, they also got food from the WIC program. He's not black or a minority. I get tired of hearing about how liberals and democrats are on the dole and don't pay taxes.
afairhope, #1.11
Yes, exactly, and the darkest blue states like NY and NJ give away much more in taxes than they get back. Yet those states are the ones the Sandy 67 voted NOT to help with federal aid.
Those same Republicans whose little red hands are always outstretched in any red state disaster. (Even if they hear it called a, God forbid, stimulus!)
Yes , and the hypocrisy and projections continue Blatantly from the repTards , it's a never-ending Story from them !
Hi Eddie,
I know. Every day is Groundhog Day with them. LOL
Hi India , You have got that correct ! I wonder just who they will blame for casting their own shadow ?
LOL, Eddie! Probably Obama. They blame him for everything else. If he were to rescue a drowning child by walking on the water, they'd blame him for not being able to swim.
Amen , Sister , Amen to that ! LOL ! These repTards are such Goof's ! Oh , hey , Let's not forget that hurricane Sandy was President Obama's Fault for attempting to obstructing the vote on the east coast of America , He did it Intentionally , all by himself !
That's correct , In their {the repTards} distorted and confused visions , President Obama Conjured up this storm to devastate the east coast , Just so He could play the role of a Hero for America !? And there are actually some nutcases out there that really believe these repTards theories !? LOL !
Eddie, Even better, Obama is so practiced at causing those disasters, and getting so GOOD at it, that even the High and Mighty Pat Robertson couldn't stop him!! LOL
Oh, yeah, they're out there......whew.. they are...a lot of them in our congress!
Being an anthropology student, I find it hard to imagine how someone can say the earth is 6000 yrs. old! But they do! I have a few rocks I'd like to show them. LOL
I myself have never been a religious Nut , never wanted anything to do with these type of Crazed people ; especially , If this is the type of mind-set that this little book teaches , "The How-to book of hypocrisy for Dummies" - "How-to be a Nutcase and lay-back on Religion as your Excuse Guide for Dummies" - "How-to Manipulate the words of your Religion to benefit Only Yourself and or your Situation at Any givin-time" ! I Myself say , NO Thanks ! All of you repTards are crazy enuff without Any kind of HELP what-so-ever ! You All need to Peer Deep within yourselves and take a REALLY GOOD Look at Yourselves !
You will Most likely find a very Empty Shell of a Human-being that has NO Self-guidance capabilities - None what-so-ever ! repTards !
As They , the repTards , gaze into the sky for guidance , they only SEE One shining symbol , the shimmering,shining Dollar sign ! That is their ALL-Mighty , but , it isn't for everyone , it is Only for them , the chosen ones ! Bunch of Sick,Selfish,Narrow-minded,Greedy Turds !
Have you ever noticed how They {the repTards} expect the entire world to revolve solely around Them ! Or , is it just Me that SEE's ? Heaven Forbid that They should have to Contribute to the rest of the world !
Eddie it's time to join your comrade on ignore. Adios.
Typical , just can't handle nor Face the Truth ! Was dat a bug dat just flew by me ?
OMG ....................................
Eddie, Maybe I am the comrade in question, being somewhat of a Socialist. Shall we sing the Internationale for Shooter as he puts us on ignore?
Allons, enfants de la Patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrivé !
Contre nous de la tyrannie,
L'étendard sanglant est levé.
Entendez-vous dans nos campagnes
Mugir ces féroces soldats?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras.
Égorger vos fils, vos compagnes!
Aux armes, citoyens,
Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons, marchons,
Qu'un sang impur,
Abreuve nos sillons!
Oh,wait... You said the Internationale... I thought you meant La Marseillaise...
My bad...
La Marseillaise is my favourite song. I only watch Casablanca to hear them sing it! It is the most inspiring song I've ever heard. You have to play it LOUD! Standing up!
No bad there, David!
Your French is so amazing. Mine is equal to my computer skills.
@Eddie
I find it rich that you admonish republicans to look within themselves and then you repeatedly use the term Tard over and over. There is a group of human beings, namely individuals with intellectual disabilities, that find use of the term degrading and demoralizing.
I also find it interesting that I never see anyone else on this blog call you out on this.
Hey, if you are going to talk the talk, start walking the walk.
leza , If you can't handle his remarks , put him on ignore rather than attempting to chastise him every step of the way , I happen to Agree with Eddie myself and I have also seen and read some from your side use the very same words so Stop your double-standard Crap ! You all seem to think that you can toss out anything that you care to , but , just cannot or will not accept the very same thing to tossed back into your face ! Why ? Do you feel that you are all so special that Only your opinions matter and no-one else has an opinion or a Right to voice theirs ? Go fish somewhere else if you can't take it or refuse to accept it !
I would use the word "un-hinged"...this is the person the Bible is talking about...false Prophets and false teachers....also "insane" would be another descriptive word...
Don't forget that in the Bible, Jesus told a rich man to go sell everything he owned, just get rid of it, and then follow Him. The rich man walked away. Jesus said that it would be easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven.
He also gave the instruction to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Sounds like Jesus cared a lot about the importance of retaining wealth by not paying taxes, too. Not.
But Fischer is a famous televangelist, so he must be teaching the truth, right?
Yeh see if you can get some of those RICH CHRISTIANS to loosen that change. Good luck with that.
The catholic church must be sitting on billions. How can that be right?
They have been investing billions in real-estate after the financial collapse , and property prices collapsed , just like the rest of the investment banking industry
Exactly. In spite of stories that occasionally surface about the Church's financial woes, they own more real estate than just about any other institution in the world. Then look at their art collection, jeweled icons and statues, etc. The richest guy in the world died 2000 years ago.
Actually, Christianity did not start to gather wealth until centuries later, when Emperor Constantine acknowledged them in the Council of Nicaea, in 325 AD... Before then, Christians were too busy, just surviving... Their persecution only ended 12 years earlier, with Constantine's Edict of Milan...
One preacher being self serving doesn't make religion or the people who believe idiots or evil, the same way one KKK member doesn't mean that all white people are crazy hillbilly in-breeders. I can understand speaking specifically about this one man and his rantings, but I don't understanding unilaterally bashing Christians. And Lin Frank, I know many Christians who give. I have met many wealthy Christians who earnestly believe that they were BLESSED with that wealth so that they can be a blessing to others. That is not to say that there are not greedy, bad, or corrupt Christians, we are still human.
relax. he's making himself filthy rich massaging the dimwits. people that dumb deserve it.
"Religion" is an honored profession, just like Lawyer, Taro Card Reader, and Pornographer. All useful services, and sought by many.
As I often remark in my other personae on PolicyMic: one must learn to distinguish among the preachers and bloviators who do such for commercial reasons and those who do it for other reasons. The paid trolls, Op-ed writers for hire, televangelists and suchlike ilk are not especially firm in the beliefs that they broadcast. Those can change as fast as the sponsorship.
On further observation: a wonderful meme circulating on Facebook recently, has it that in both 2008 and 2012, conservatives prayed for a great leader to be elected. God has answered their prayers twice, now. Just how presumptuous is it to question God's will?
"Would Jesus wear a Rolex on his television show?"
Among the many things Jesus is reported to have said which the Taliban/Teaparty overlook in their crusades; When you pray, go into the closet, not out on the street corner.
DAY...
As a Tarot Card Reader, I resent that...
Then again, I never charge for my services... I'm so grateful my spirit guides gave me this Gift. I feel it would be insulting them to charge for it...
David,#3.4 Tsk, Tsk,
There you go, dabbling in the demonic and the occult. :)
Davids not as bad as the far right churches that let my step sons grandmother use their basement to charge their flock to pay her to read tarot cards to them. Every time grannies son got picked up for non payment of child support on his 7 kids granny would run to the church to make bail money. I found it mildly amusing as the son only had to pay $7 a month to child support who would then dole it out to the 3 mothers of his kids, so the one with 5 got $4 and the mothers with one kid got a $1.50. LOL he was a good moral republican as well, he would work under the table to make donations to the RNC so they would go after dead beat welfare people because he was tired of paying for dead beats.
Whom...
Sounds like Joe Walsh...
@CarolinaLady, it's amazing to see the faithful (and I'm being generous here with Fisher) pray for leadership and plead for God's guidance for the country, but then when God doesn't do what they want, they get all mad, call it Satanic and Hitler-y and try to take their country back. Guess they feel they know better than the Almighty, but that would be kinda dangerous.
It seems like all the effort and time spent, whether it's insisting that creation be taught in schools, or students be forced to repeat certain words every morning, or fighting for the uber-wealthy who claim they're too sanctimonious to pay for birth control, is all so, well, missing the mark.
That's just my personal 2¢, though. Shrug.
SuSaxist, #3.8,
I liked that 2 cents worth. The problem with the people whom you allude to, is that they see God as their co-pilot.
They are simply sitting in the wrong seat.
My 2cents worth. Shrug :)
Now, tell me where that cent sign is on this computer. I couldn't find it.
All kinds of special characters, but it depends on something called a Code Page: Hold down the alt key and enter on your numeric keypad (make sure NumLock is on), then release the alt key:
155 - ¢ 156 - £ 157 - ¥ 171 - ½ 172 - ¼
This is from the ASCII - Standard page (American Standard Code for Information Interchange.
If you're inside something like Microsoft word, you get a different set (I think they use the ASCII - Latin page).
(Yes I am a dork)
#3.10, Saxist,
Yes, I see that! My youngest son is like that. He did not take after his mother! I fear that if I do what you suggest, the cat on my lap will disappear into cyberspace or something equally awesome and numinous will happen.
Dorks impress me immensely.
I guess I'll just have to settle for being beautiful. LOL
Stl... (I used to work just off Market, BTW)
I don't bother memorizing the ASCII Character Code numbers for when I need a special character... I've just bookmarked the ASCII Character chart... Now, I just get it in a separate Window, then Copy and Paste...
155 155 -155-155- Oh, #$%^. Well, at least the cat is still here.
I'll leave this to you dorks. There really IS a Num Lock key!! Who knew what it was for!
What is it for?
The num lock key is like caps lock but for the number pad on a keyboard with one. With it on, you get a 1 instead of jumping to the end of the page. With it off, when you press 6 your window will scroll right if that's an option. If you are using a laptop without a separate number pad, basically all with a screen smaller than 15.4 inches, U I and O are 4 5 and 6 and J K and L are 1 2 and 3 It's there because it is easier than reaching up to the top row to touch type when entering a lot of numbers.
Every computer operating system from Windows to Mac(called Character Palette) to most of the various flavors of BSD and Linux running GNOME desktop has a program called Character Map (Gucharmap)from which you can pull all of the available characters from your installed fonts. I don't know if KDE still has kcharselect as part of a standard install. But, whatever you are running, if you've got Java installed you can download a java app from Softpedia [Gunter voice™] Und nowv is vere I show offv. [/Gunter voice™] ®¼½¿¶฿⁈℃℗℻ These are Times New Roman
Hmm. They don't all work in the Firefox browser. That should be: registered, 1/4, 1/2, Spanish question mark, Paragraph, Bhat, QuestionExclamation, Degrees Celsius, Published music, Facsimile(Fax)
(update) And now that I published this comment, it's working again. Weird Make sure you use a common font like Times New Roman or Arial or whatever font is common in the language you use.
Miracle, Thank you! Firefox is my browser, so I will keep trying. I really appreciate that info!
Yours, too, David.
¢£¤§©ª®¶¼½¾¿
Cool... The only advantage to my technique is, it keeps the Character Map in a separate Windows tab, so you don't have to keep popping in and out of Windows...
But, if you keep the Character Map minimized, you can access it without leaving Windows...
;-Þ
I used to play "Go in and out the window", David. But.........what window do you mean? I have windows 7. How do I find these 7 windows? I have an Acer computer.
The Republicans may not like the Pope's message, but he is unlikely to take any action on it. So far the bishops haven't protested against the war, or the cutting of social services. They haven't filed law suits saying that cutting funding programs that hurt the poor is violating their freedom of religion. No, they will save that for birth control and gay marriage and equality for women. Any real ramifications won't fall on the GOP.
The bishops are too busy trying to regain control of the radical American nuns.
And avoiding going to prison while paying off lawsuits for child endangerment.
The bishops are working the Illinois legislature on the gay marriage issue but I guess the bishops are not doing too well despite their lobbying efforts. It was approved by the Illinois Senate committee by an 8 to 5 vote, but there were not enough lawmakers who supported the measure in Springfield. The Dems will come back with stronger majorities on January 9 but many of the gains were downstate which is far more conservative. It will likely pass the Senate and then it will move to the House in the next legislative session.
This is not the religion that I grew up with. I went to a small conservative church in the upper Midwest. Never was there politics being preached about from the pulpit. We donated to charities, and helped out people in need. A persons belief was between them and their god.
What this 'preacher' is practicing is not what religion was meant to be.
That was my thinking exactly. I guess my CCD teachers were a bunch of America-hating peacenik Marxists.
Then again, it was the 1970s.
Using the pulpit to conduct a political rally against a specific piece of legislation is not religion. It is politics and not worthy of tax exemption.
This turkey and his 'church' should undergo an IRS review and be prepared to pay back taxes.
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." -- Jesus of Nazareth (Matthew 22.21)
I was involved in the Marxist Luther League (Lutheran youth group) myself. Its' been my observation that the more one boasts how godly they are, and how terrible others are who disagree with them... the less they act with charity to others......
Everyone who believes in religion organized or n ot are just all following their different paths to the same place.
And the people who believe in no religion and have no doubts shouldn't let that keep them from trying to help people in need and making this world a better place.
just saying.
George...
If more people believed as you or I, the world would be a nicer place...
But, one of the main tenets of my belief system is "Thou shall not proselytize"...Each of Us must be free to find His own path and live His own life... Each must have the right to choose, or become enslaved to someone else's choice...
My great-grandfather was the Episcopal Bishop of Michigan in the early 1900's, and Henry Ford's family pastor. He was sometimes called the Red Bishop because of his support for workers. The night he died in 1923 he had just come from a long meeting with local industry leaders, trying to get them to agree to child labor laws. My grandmother said he died of a broken heart. I don't see how you can be a cleric, the "shepherd to your flock" so to speak, and not be moved by the social injustices inflicted on your people. Unfortunately, the cleric who fights for better lives for the poor is unusual enough that they are given names like "Red Bishop", when it should be abnormal for a supposed "man of God" to fight on the side of greed, extravagance, callousness, and oppression.
Thanks for sharing a bit of your grandfather's story. It powerfully describes what Christian leadership looks like. The litmus test is compassion for all the world--like your grandmother seems to understand. Presently, there are very few on the Christian religious right that place God's love above politics and/or profit.
The only things "demonic" about this legislation were the no votes. Apparently Fischer has no compassion for his fellow man. That is supposedly one of the mainstays of religion, but apparently not his. These phsyco blowhards that profess to having conversations with God are nothing but scam artists. They tell their followers I can speak to God gimme money, gimme money so they can pay for their multi-million dollar homes and Mercedes. And their followers actually believe them. Would'nt they love to get their foot a little further in the door of government, as if they do'nt have it in far enough already with their elected zealots like Louie Gomert etal. What they want is an Iranian style government with themselves as the ruling Mullah's. I say threaten to take their tax free status awayand maybe that will help stop their crusading religious invasion into government.
Those of us who aren't involved with fundies probably tend to gloss over terms like "demonic", but I think it's important to understand that this isn't just an idle adjective. There is a large percentage of the American public that actually believe in the existence and action of demons in the world. This was brought home to me in a discussion with a fundie nephew, who asked me with incredulity, "Don't you believe in demons?" I was shocked. I didn't know what to say. My first reaction was a stifled laugh, as I realized he was completely serious. So I started paying attention to it (not hard, I've got fundies among my own siblings), and these people really believe that a whole host of demons are at work in the world creating all sorts of trouble. Not to mention their boss, THE DEVIL!!! :-O
There've been plenty of polls about this, and depending on which one you read it looks like 60-70% of Americans actually believe that the devil exists! That's substantially more than believe in evolution (40-50%). It seems Americans are almost evenly split between believing in evolution or young earth creationism. And here's a depressing bit from Wikipedia: "As of 2012, the percentage of believers decreases as the level of education increases. Only 25% of respondents with postgraduate degrees believed compared with 52% of those with a high school education or less." Why is that depressing? Because 25% of postgrads believe in young earth creationism! What does that say about our education system? Holy smokes!
If demons are at work in the world, they must be occupied full time with keeping nonsense like this alive. Incredible!
Really, #6.1,
"If demons are at work in the world, they must be occupied full time with keeping nonsense like this alive."
Unfortunately it looks like they're a regular bunch of workaholics. We need to put them in a 12 step program for workaholic demons! LOL
I think they hang around John Boehner's caucus a lot, too. :)
Awww I'm disappointed with Maddowblog. Why didn't you include this video of Fischer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2xz0skyDto
The flaming homosexuals are coming! The flaming homosexuals are coming!
Can I watch...
Because if anypone starts linking to Fischer videos, where do you stop? But he started out as a major homophobe, it wasn't until he got the AFA gig that he turned into the 'one-stop shopping center' of religious hatred and bigotry. (And before he showed up, the AFA was mostly known as an organization who protested television hinting at the making of life rather than the taking of it. 'Guns good, boobs bad' type stuff, but now they have worked themselves up to full hate group status -- thanks to Fischer.
Well, ya got me on that one. I just thought this particular stream of babble was especially hilarious for Fischer. The gay lobbyists will send a FLAMING homosexual to your business to apply for a job! THE HORROR THE HORROR!!!!
Interestingly enough I *think* Fischer is confused. I do not think that he realizes a "flaming" homosexual isn't literally, ya know, on fire.
Cartoonthenews,#7.3 No! No! The horror!! Not the flaming homosexuals. I can stand anything but that! LOL
Hey, I'm gay and I have no desire to self immolate whatsoever.. That is a myth!
Trollop,#7.5
Good, we'd hate to lose you!
Maybe all those spontaneous combustions I keep hearing about are really just cases of gay people deciding to "flame on?"
#7.7,
GOOD ONE!
I've heard they can get "fired up"!
Trollop, No offence, we're just teasing you.
I have a close member of my family who is gay. Thank Heavens it isn't my husband! LOL
Toon, as much as I like the idea, that's simply ridiculous...
Lmao gotta love the photo addition there Lock =P
??? hmm. That's odd. Musta been something I read.
TURN IT OFF ! TURN IT OFF !
sry. absolutely no self control
hahahahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClBbJ7DyqL8
You've became Cody!
HA-HAH !!! Fixed it!
Of my haphazards, few are the wiser. If you tell, toon, I know where you hang out.
I wonder, once death has drained the venom from his fangs, if Fischer will be 'rediscovered' by some historian fascinated as well as horrified -- the way Vann Woodward was with Tom Watson, or Eugene Genovese -- in his radical days -- was with George Fitzhugh. (Father Coughlin is another example.) People who were authentically evil, yet fascinating and almost hypnotic.
But Steve, never underestimate his abiliy to draw biblico-political analogies from almost anything, or his ability to get angry at anything. This is the speaker who has had a 'thing' against bears for many years, even calling for the deliberate extincting of grizzly bears -- and stopping work on global warming -- because 'one human being is worth an infinite number of grizzlies.' (He doesn't mention if this remains true if the human is attracted to people of her or his own gender, but I doubt if Fischer considers them wholly human. And of course there have been rumors about Fischer going back to his days in Idaho.)
And on another topic, I am an atheist, and a strong believer in separation, but keeping a religious institution from receiving disaster relief because of it is a level of 'ideological purity' I can't reach. It is no better than Republicans denying it for their warped fiscal ideology, even if the explanation is infinitely better. Suffering and pain are their own entities, and you fight them first and worry about 'fine lines' -- or even the character of the person they are afflicting -- later. (Of course, the idea is to 'make someone whole' not 'grant them a bonanza' so you don't replace a storefront mosque with an Islamic equivalent of the Crystal Cathedral either.)
Isn't part of Steven Colbert's schtick being hyper wary of bears ?
FRP, #8.1
No, I think he meant that he was hyper wary of being bare. LOL
You Betcha!
Too subtle for me ...
Prup,
I think it depends on the religious institution. If you give the money to some churches, they will give it to their members first, and then if anything is left over, they might help someone else. I would rather not fund these "churches".
There are churches like the Salvation Army who will give it to anybody who needs it, no questions asked, and I would have no problem giving them money.
So when you give this money to a religious institution, how do you know who you are helping? Those who need it or those who show the correct ideological purity as identified by the religious institution (not by you)?
What about all the rich people who covet my SS and Medicare funds? The reason that the "conservatives" want to privatize SS and Medicare is that the big banks and brokerage houses see a big pot of money that they want to get their hands on so they can play the stock market and pocket the winnings and stick me with the losses.
yes...now let me put my tin hat on for a minute. I've been thinking this week that the GOP deliberately crashed the economy in 2008 so they could go after these programs. They realized with Bush's 'mandate' that privatizing was never gonna happen so they manufactured a crisis to scare the 'people'. When THAT didn't work, they did nothing to rebuild the economy hoping that they could pretend we're like GREECE and the only thing to be done is get rid of those programs that help the 'less wealthy'.
Mego,
i hate to give W. bush credit for anything, but i have often said the same thing myself, that tanking the economy was deliberate so they could go after the programs they HATE.
repubs "manufactured a crisis" when they CUT TAXES the very same month they invaded iraq (march of 2003). this CRISIS has been in the making for years.
repubs love to blame democrats for "never letting a good crisis go to waste" (just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of repubs blaming democrats for the very things that only THEY ARE DOING). BUT REPUBS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE BIGGEST CRISIS THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER BEEN THROUGH, 9/11, PLAYING ON THE FEARS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, TO TAKE US INTO AN ILLEGAL WAR, AND CUT TAXES AT THE SAME TIME. he told the american people to "go shopping" while putting 100% of the burden of TWO WARS on only a few americans, american troops who now come home from the wars AFTER SEVERAL DEFERMENTS, only to take their OWN LIVES.
WTF?
when w. bush made his "victory landing" on the "Abraham Lincoln" in May of 2003 ("MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" anyone?), americans kept waiting for the iraqi war to be over, but it went on for SEVERAL MORE YEARS, costing americans BILLIONS and thousands of troops' lives.
two wars UNPAID FOR and tax cuts for the wealthy are the main reasons for the debt and deficit in this country. repubs love to say that President Obama "can"t lead", YET THEY WERE LED BY W. BUSH, LOVING AND SIGNING UP FOR EVERYTHING HE WANTED. history has shown us, since at least nixon on, that repubs are responsible for the defict in our country. cheeeney and reagan said, "DEFICITS DON'T MATTER". the only time we hear about debt and deficit and spending is when a democrat holds the office of the Presidency. history has shown us that a democrat has to come in and clean up after a repub.
all of a sudden repubs are deficit hawks, now that Obama is President? all of a sudden everything has to be paid for, now that a democrat is President? all of a sudden NOTHING CAN BE PUT ON A CREDIT CARD AFTER REPUBS RAN UP THE DEBT AND TANKED THE ECONOMY?
i hate to give repubs credit for this, but you might be right.
"Starve the beast"
"Drown it in a bathtub"
They don't even try to hide it.
OK...Fischer. The only thing I can say is if he gets a tax exemption for 'religious reasons' maybe this is one of those 'loopholes' we can revisit for the 'debt ceiling debacle' that is coming up. As for the FEMA dollars for religious 'houses' I would just chalk it up to community rebuilding and leave it at that. After all, we aren't discriminating between WHICH houses of worship....or are we?
Mego, #9.1,
The Republicans deal in crisis Capitalism, or, as Naomi Klein calls it in The Shock Doctrine, "Disaster Capitalism".
They use disasters, like Katrina, to privatize things. It is an egregious policy.
Egregious and effective. People need to be made aware of this.
We all know God prefers the Dow Jones to be around ten thousand and spiraling downward. Why then would God invent shortsellers...
Lebowsky Dude, What makes you so sure it was God who created shortsellers. :)
I'm not even sure it was He who created Republicans. I see little evidence of their having a Divine origin.
I'll wager that both Georges- Burns and Carlin- are up there right now, cracking Him up with their observations!
The Church on the other hand...
Amazing how a tax exempt entity that follows the teachings of a communal hippie can object to policy based on religious dogma that does nor exist except in their own little world.
Such silly crap from Christians...
When phony Christians support gun rights,the death penalty,usury,discrimination and war you have to wonder just who the heck is interpreting the scriptures for them--Satan perhaps?
in other "twig" news..
defying the catholic church, the philippines quietly pass contraceptive law
President Benigno Aquino III last month signed the Responsible Parenthood and Reproductive Health Act of 2012 quietly and without customary handshakes and photographs to avoid controversy. The law that provides state funding for contraceptives for the poor pitted the dominant Catholic Church in an epic battle against the popular Aquino and his followers.
http://news.yahoo.com/passage-contraceptives-law-philippines-shows-times-changed-catholic-165822414.html
and
"westboro as hate group" petition gets big response
Users of the White House's "We the People" digital petition platform have flooded the site in support of an effort to officially designate the Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church as a hate group.
The individual push has since received the support of nearly 250,000 signees, making it the most popular single petition ever created through the White House initiative.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2012/12/26/white-house- petition-westboro_n_2365799. html?ir=Religion&ncid= edlinkusaolp00000008
Having signed the Westboro petition (and the one to arrest the signers of the secession petitions for treason), that's good news about its popularity.
for my fellow religion and politics junkies......here's an updated report on the religious makeup of our new congress from pew
http://www.pewforum.org/Government/Faith-on-the-Hill--The-Religious-Composition-of-the-113th-Congress.aspx
Mr. Leisenheimer, thank you the religion and politics news items you frequently post in this blog. I rarely comment on them but I do read most of them. You consistently find interesting, relevant and unusual news.
Just wanted you to know your hard work is appreciated!
Russell Leisenheimer, #15,
Thank you for the interesting link. I see the Protestants still outnumber us. Well, if I am say so, we Catholics are working hard to change that.
Some of us still don't use contraceptives, and it may take a while, but we're an industrious bunch. :)
We'll keep up the good work. Tough job, but someone has to do it. I figure in about 25 more years, we'll easily be the religious majority.
India,
I'm glad your belief in Catholicism gives you something good you don't think you can find within yourself, but..
GOD HELP US if that ever happens. We all have seen examples of what happens in the world when one religion takes over a country..... and we already know what "Catholics" do to a country when they get in control - remember "Inquisition"?
All religion is is another "control" system - one designed to use whatever power they (the people currently in charge) decide "GOD" gives them to enforce their power, regardless of what it does to people. And have you seen ANY of these "control" systems do anything for women?
Some people need religion to tell them what "GOD" wants - I don't! I figure if GOD wants me to do something, he'll tell me himself!
oncearepublican,
I was an agnostic as a young woman; very scientifically minded. Then I read Teilhard de Chardin's books. Then I read St. Augustine. I believed what they said.
Catholicism changed me permanently; for the better. I converted as an adult. I love the Church.
I found what I was looking for. I don't begin to know what God "wants", but if you find out, let me know. I don't think he wants so much hatred in the world, that's for sure. He seems to want us to love one another. (He's strict!)
I don't think he's a Republican. He told me not to vote for Romney. LOL
LOL, India. Maybe he "told" me to vote for Obama too!!
I used to be a Catholic by I excommunicated myself after my so called priest kept telling me that he knew better than I did what was good for me!! I think the statement he made about women being "inherently evil" and needing priests to keep them "in line" was the last straw!!
I don't know if there is a GOD or not, but I am sure that if one exists, he will tell me when he's ready.
Oncearepublican,#15.5
You ran into a sick priest and you blame God and the Church?! Now I KNOW you are smarter than that! I read you comments all the time.
You know what I think? I think your God is too small. Take some time one day and really look at nature; look at penguins, look at cats, look at trees, look at the colour of the sky. Look at the people you love.
Think how the chances are one in ("TOO many zeros to put here") that your eyes happened to be made in such a way that you can see anything at all, let alone a rose.
Start there.
What I think happened when Biden and McConnell met:
Biden: Mitch, Obama has to get a "win" here and we need to get some relief for the unemployed. What does your side want?
McConnell: Joe, we have to get something for the rich or we aren't going to get our jobs back, and that is the bottom line.
Biden: So what do we do?
McConnell: I have an idea! You know the rich hate the Alternate Minimum Tax more than anything. They would cut off their right arms to get rid of that. So, we get rid of that and you can put your "tax hike" on the rich to make it look like Obama has a "win", and our rich people will be happy because they won't have a ceiling on what exemptions they can take to reduce their taxable amount, so they really won't have to pay that "tax hike".
Biden: What about the unemployed?
McConnell: What is that? About 30 Billion? Peanuts! Ask for it too!
Biden: Won't people see how shallow that is?
McConnell: Nah, nobody will read the bill - it is Christmas after all and everyone, including the pundits are too busy with Christmas things to read the bill. You just get on TV and brag about how you are finally going to "tax the rich" and how you are helping the unemployed and I'll get on TV and say how terrible the bill is. The pundits and the news people are too busy right now to do anything but follow our lead! It'll be OK. Hell, I'll even "goose" the Tea Party and reigious right wing whackos to make it look more "real" and to make it look more like Obama got a "win"!
Biden: Shouldn't we do something about the Payroll Tax too?
McConnell: Nah, people won't notice that until at least two weeks after this bill passes - they won't even have a clue that the only people we really taxed were the middle class and the poor - and I want a promise from you that you won't talk about it or Obama won't get his "win"!
Biden: Well, I have a few other things too, like the "doc fix".
McConnell: We have some other goodies we need to give to our wealthy benefactors. We will just sneak them in and not talk about them.
Biden: OK, looks like we have a deal! Let's go talk to Boehner!!
It's too bad that this discussion has to happen on this blog rather than on UpWithChrisHayes, whose show today dealt well with this subject. Nice posts there btw onceler- I have largely given up on the Up Blog though.
Chris did have a GOOD discussion today! I do wish more people watched him. Maybe if he was moved to a weekly timeslot? That, and NBC changing the posting methodolgy back as you mentioned, would do wonders for his blogs also!
Errr....not weekly, weekday!
I say, Put Chris Hayes on instead of those awful prison shows whose audience eludes me.
He could also fill the time slot that has Chris Matthew's rerun!
Yes. I agree.
TO: oncearepublican #16
Great post.....but i think I will cry... there is probably a lot more truth in there than fiction.
Tom,
When I read that bill, I did cry. I realized that there is NOBODY looking out for the middle class. We gave the rich another "present" that we, the middle class, will have to pay for and we got extremely little in return.
Compared to other blogs, the Maddow blogs have probably the most intelligent posters on it, yet they all decided to follow the pundits (who didn't read the 154 pages either) who followed the politicians for how to think about this bill without actually READING it. And those politicians had their own futures in mind, not the interests of the middle class.
TOM! #16.7
OMG it is so good to see you! I hope all is well. I am on my way out the door, but hope we get a chance to chat. Are you still in China? I have to go, and know there's a time difference, but TALK to me when you can!
Always thinking of you, India.
Tom...
Ditto what India said...
Since Ed's blog changed to a Facebook-friendly format, a lot of the old crowd left, while only a few of us migrated to Maddowblog, which still uses the old format...
If I wanted to post on Facebook, I wouldn't be using a PC...
Don't you mean "taken over" instead of "migrated"? I've noticed that less and less of the old-timers are posting here any more.
A lot of "hurrah for our side" and "chat-room talk" (and all of the ED trolls) but not so much of the critical thinking that used to go on here.....I guess that's my cue too....
Hello India, Dave and Once-a-Republican...you under a different name, or is my memory failing me? smile.
yes I am still in China and doing good.
I have been spending.... well actually all my time on the conservative blog... but I have some bragging rights... I have the most post on there..#1..hahaha over 4,600 and I know xxxooo has voted for me a few times, but I have 661 votes... I think that is pretty good considering where i am at. BUT, most do not like me and tell me so. tell me to do nasty things to myself and tell me places to go and I tell them I do not go their home when they are not there.
Talk to you later... keep them in line..
So are people like the Koch Brothers free from any of this demonic stuff?
It seems like them having one of the seven deadly sins (greed) is not that great either.
Certainly nothing wrong with Bearing false witness.
yeh now we see the hypocrisy of all of it...it makes me sick....
Stephen Colbert might object...
Future Pres, #17,
One!? Oh, I think more than one. They have probably committed at least three before their maid serves the morning coffee and apple strudel.
punish people who have been successful? really...hogwash! or I could say something else...this is why I am so vehemetly against the Christian Right with nut cakes like this...WWJD? He'd show alot more restraint.
Jesus already 'did' -- he said to pay your taxes. (Matthew 22:21)
I'm all for paying not taxes as long as we eliminate the federal government. They're useless. They want "stater" control of everything anyway. Just do away with them.
larry74, since you have not indicated that your post is snark i must assume that it is not.
so, how does it feel to be that stupid? does it actually hurt?
Larry74: We tried not having a federal government in the 1780s; we had something called the Articles of Confederation. The country was broke because the Congress did not have the power to tax. As a result the soldiers in the continental army went home with nothing but their muskets and a few balls.
As a result of the dis-function of the Continental Congress, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, George Washington, etc. called the constitutional convention for the express purpose of creating a government that had the power to tax so that the country could pay its bills.
All those people who want to shrink the federal government and drown it in the bathtub want to destroy the United States of America. They should be called out as the traitors they are.
Those wishing to live without being burdened by government may easily do so.
There are still large tracts of Somalia outside the reach of any government, and there are weekly flights to Mogadishu. (Apparently it takes decades of neglect to completely destroy an international airport.)
You can avoid taxes and own as many guns as you wish. A stable central government may eventually gain control over the country, but it is doubtful any of you would survive long enough to see it. Live free AND die!
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
That "boom" you just heard was the sound of Rick Santorum's head exploding.
If only it were so easy.
Rick Santorum is the grease stain of American politics -- he is a functionless but durable blemish on the public image of the U.S.
On a side note, "exploding santorum" sounds like a terrifying medical condition.
Nathan, #19, LOL!
And high time it did, too!
Why does the movie Scanners suddenly come into mind?...
nuts
Vicious and demonic? Oh my. What about this headline:
Vatican In Trouble For Money Laundering And We Aren’t Surprised
Do the words "glass houses" ring any bells for this nut-ball. Some of the most henious crimes known to mankind have been instigated by religious fanatics and, by the way, still are. Asking the rich to pay more to help a beligured nation? I don't think that evil or demonic, I think that's patriotic.
Of course...because wanting access to medical care, or insisting that capita gains be taxed "sort of, kind of, almost" as much as payroll taxes... that's totally "covetousness," right?
Somehow the right appears to operate under the belief that even though you say all these legitimate reasons for why you want to raise taxes- it's really NOT for those legitimate reasons, but for the secret, conspiratorial reasons that only Republicans know! Because they are the holders of the TRUE truth!
Ironically wouldn't that mean that, by Fischer's own logic, he's coveting the wealth of the 40% of Americans whose taxes he does want to raise?
Cartoon,#22.1
The TRUE Truth is their desire to have very little revenue and starve the beast so there's no money left for these Socialist give aways like Social Security!
FDR's Communist plot to end the poverty amongst the elderly population has always made them bitter and angry. The seniors like it, but...what do they know? They are irrelevant, like the working poor. It hasn't yet dawned on them what putting millions of seniors back into poverty would do to the economy. They don't think macroscopically.
Actually, they think magically and have a bad case of tunnel vision.
Why are the Far Right Conservatives so eager and willing to become paranoid? Hate disguised as Religion.
RELIGION-just a "prop" to the repubs.
little bush had two "props"... He had Jesus in one hand and Bin Laden in the other...so he could cast fear and bring them to their knees with the other... not sure which one he used to accomplish either of those, both would work I guess.
lol..that was either really sad or really funny. I can't decide.
Janet,#24,
The truth is often both.
Prophet and Loss
A rich man showed up at the pearly gate;
The rest for both the righteous and the weary.
He thought if there was question of his fate
That he'd get in by quoting market theory.
"I heard the poor and hungry when they moaned
(We all knew that their help was in my vault,)
But laziness and sloth can't be condoned!
If they were hungry, that was their own fault!"
"But don't say I gave nothing! I gave some!"
A vagrant asked one time. He had no pride!
So once I gave a quarter to a bum!"
Saint Peter shrugged his shoulders and replied:
"Well, that's a lovely story that you tell.
Here's your two bits back.. You can go to Hell."
Nice poem!!!
MY WORD! Did you write that?
It's the first sonnet I've seen on these boards that wasn't written by Me... and it was GOOD!
David, coming from you, that's high praise!
Now, my favourite teacher and French instructor, where is the "cent" sign on the computer?
India...
Check out my post at #3.12...
Makes ¢¢¢¢¢, doesn't it?
David, I did.
No, it didn't. #@&*(%!!
India... Try this...
Click on the Start button in the bottom-right corner of your screen...
Move your cursor on 'All Programs'...
Move it on the 'Accessories' folder...
Move it on 'System Tools'...
Double-click on 'Character Map'... A small box with ALL the characters available should appear...
Find whatever character you are looking for and put your cursor over it; it should enlarge...
Double-click on it... It should appear in the little slot below... Repeat this for as long a string of characters you want...
Double-click on 'Copy'... This moves the character string to your clipboard...
Got back to your browser... 'Character Map' should be minimized at the bottom if you need it again...
Click the cursor where you want to put the character string... Hit 'Ctrl-V' to Paste what is in your clipboard where the cursor is...
If that doesn't work, I don't know how to make it simpler for you...
David, LOL, Omg, this is simplicity?
When my geek son, the head wonk, comes over, I will show him this and he will walk me through it.
Carefully, so the cat doesn't evaporate into cyberspace or something. He hangs out here on my lap.
TO: Davis Gloff
GREAT POST!
I hope you don't mind me coping it....I have a nice place to paste it.. I know they will appreciate highly. *wink*