Ezra Klein/Washington Post
If you only listen to rhetoric out of DC, you might think Republicans and the business community are the closest of allies. It's the GOP, the argument goes, standing up for America's private sector against those rascally Democrats and their big government, "anti-business" agenda.
But when it comes to Republicans holding the debt ceiling hostage, the caricature is turned on its head. In this crisis, GOP leaders couldn't care less what the nation's "job creators" want or believe, and it's the business community rallying behind President Obama.
Greg Sargent flagged a terrific example yesterday.
The powerful Financial Services Roundtable -- which is headed by former GOP presidential candidate Tim Pawlenty and represents nearly 100 of the largest financial service firms in the country -- is set to increase pressure on Congress to raise the debt limit, warning that failure to do so will make the markets go "haywire."
"We are in favor of raising it, and we will be encouraging policy makers to increase it," Scott Talbott, the senior vice president for public policy for the Financial Services Roundtable, told me today. He added that the group was gearing up to communicate the demand for action to Congress, an effort that could include sending letters to every member.
The Financial Services Roundtable carries considerable weight, but it's worth noting that it's not alone on this issue. As we discussed in November, the Financial Services Forum and the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association are also pushing Republicans to be reasonable. Soon after, the Business Roundtable also sided against the GOP hostage strategy.
We're not talking about MoveOn.org urging Republicans to be responsible; we're talking about corporate lobbyists and industries that tend to keep GOP offices on speed dial. To understate matters, these folks are accustomed to having Republicans take their fears seriously.
Which leads to the obvious next question: are Republicans prepared to ignore their own corporate base? Recent history offers some clues.
It's often overlooked, but in April 2011, before the original Republican debt-ceiling crisis had begun in earnest, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) reached out to financial industry leaders, asking how much time he had to screw around with the debt ceiling before doing serious, lasting damage to the economy. He was told that "even pushing close to the deadline -- or talking about it -- could have grave consequences in the marketplace," and top Wall Street executives and lobbyists quickly urged Republicans to steer clear of such reckless nonsense.
The House Speaker proceeded to ignore everything he heard.
A month later, in May 2011, 62 leading U.S. business groups, including the American Gas Association, the Telecommunications Industry Association, and the National Association of Manufacturers, all pleaded with Congress to end the standoff and raise the debt ceiling.
Republicans ignored them and intensified the crisis.
Two months later, in July 2011, a "sprawling coalition" of Wall Street and Main Street business leaders sent a letter, "signed by hundreds of senior company executives and groups including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable," pleading for an end to the hostage standoff.
Republicans ignored them, too.
As I wrote at the time, I long assumed that the fiasco would reach some kind of tipping point -- Republicans would start to do real harm to the economy, at which point some very wealthy, very powerful people, who hire very effective lobbyists and write very big campaign checks, would pick up the phone and deliver a very clear message to the GOP: Enough.
But if that happened behind the scenes, it didn't make much difference. Congressional Republicans -- literally, all of them -- kept ignoring business leaders, and kept pushing the nation closer and closer to the brink, confident that Obama would be the adult who wouldn't allow lawmakers to crash the economy on purpose.
Eventually, the president, unwilling to let Republicans shoot the hostage, accepted a bad deal, and the debt ceiling was raised, but not before GOP officials inflicted severe damage on the country.
And so, we find ourselves right back where we were. If business leaders intend to have more influence than they did in 2011, they're going to have to pick up their game.
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You train a dog to fight, ignore the fact that it growls and snaps at everything around you, then act shocked when it bites you?
The business owners who are whinging now are as much to blame as the Republican dogs they've unleashed on the country.
And now they can't figure out how to bring their cur to heel.
And we'll all pay the price for that...
Bingo. The current Republican party is largely comprised of three groups - 1) a few, wealthy, short sighted plutocrats who have bought, 2) people willing to do and say anything for money, and fund/manipulate/use 3) the Taliban/Teaparty. Many CEOs, thinking of short term, personal gain, abetted, and are now surprised that the machine they subsidized is willing to turn on them. Plutocrats and theocrats, by definition, are unable to see that 'might-makes-right' governments will eventually turn on its own members.
If one's focus is concentrated on 'the bottom line', it's easy to fall into the traps of expedience and justifying the means with the ends. This is the point of the camel/needle-rich man/heaven parable. This is one of the reasons why an effective CEO probably won't make a good President; two different job requirements.
Both theocrats and plutocrats think that everyone can be bought, everyone has their price. Subsequently, they don't trust anyone. Soon or late, they will eat their own children. And cleaning up the mess is gonna cost...
1. A handful of international capitalists fund-
2. The right-wing hate media that fools-
3. Chumps into supporting the secessionist agenda.
Why would those plutocrats be "short sighted"? The Bush years showed the United States is a menace to world peace and global economic stability. Everyone would be better off if the US were broken up. For example, the US spends as much as the rest of the world on its military which has a history of irresponsible adventurism. What if the China spent as much on its military as the US and all the rest of the world combined, used that military to invade random counties on a whim, and kidnapped whoever they felt like off our streets? People everywhere would consider it a threat, just as the rest of the world considers us. Also, I do not believe German and Swiss and Irish and the rest of the world's bankers appreciate American agents emptying their national treasuries. Their money is nothing but a juicy target for Goldman Sachs shysters. So those international capitalists fund a secessionist movement in the US that will break the country up, a secessionist movement we call the Republican Party.
Observe the right-wing media and infests radio, television, books, magazines, internet, you name it, all with the SAME America-hating message. This can be no accident. Read the professionally-prepared essays smearing American values in American Thinker or the professionally-prepared plants on youtube. The evidence is blatant.
Listen to the right-wing mind, unable to connect assertions with evidence, unable to distinguish fact from fiction, able only to repeat slogans, unable to recognize rhetorical fallacies, consumed with hatred for this country, hatred manufactured and stoked by right-wing media funded by international capitalists intending to break this country up.
And they are right, the country should be broken up.
There's lots of cave left to explore in the humongous President Mammoth Cave system. Republicans know exactly what they're doing.
...and yet, the business community large contributed to these idiots during the last cycle. While pocketing record profits. While stagnating wages. While offshoring income.
Exactly.
Business leaders had plenty of time to digest the market outcomes of the last debt ceiling fiasco and yet heavily funded GOP candidates. What do public expressions of displeasure mean if the checks signed in the back room say the opposite.
Empirically speaking, the hypothesis that the GOP is feeling pressure from Wall street is utterly absurd. It is crushed under a mountain of campaign finance evidence to the contrary.
Obama is betting naively that business leaders will go beyond lip service and put real pressure on the GOP caucus. The idea is a corollary of the idea that rational actors in markets will find optimal rational outcomes.
Just like in the 2008 meltdown? Barack, get a fricking clue.
I'm beginning to think this country needs another financial disaster to give the opportunity for a realist about Wall street to deconstruct the pathological equilibrium that is destroying our financial and climactic health. This is the Naomi Klein idea that the right has been using disasters because of the opportunity they open for radical change. The same strategy could be used by the left to dismember the too big to fail wall street and energy sector firms driving us from disaster to disaster.
So who would this realist be? Someone like Warren.
the business community [at] large contributed to these idiots during the last cycle.
The business community normally contributes to both sides in politics so whoever wins will owe them favors.
John,
My first thought as I read the blog was "begging, pleading, and letter writing won't make a dent in the GOP's will. If Wall Street is serious about influencing Congress to raise the debt ceiling, they need to make it clear where their next campaign contributions will be going (not to the GOP) if the deal doesn't get made soon."
Of course, I'm not too certain Wall Street is that serious.
With all due respect, we don't live in a binary world. It's not all on or off, black or white. It's often complicated. And when business leaders get so much cover from the GOP, they're apt to overlook the comparatively inconsequential (remember, I said 'comparatively inconsequential') matter of the debt ceiling bluff and vote their interest. Hypocrisy, yes, but that's how the world works.
The same strategy could be used by the left to dismember the too big to fail wall street and energy sector firms driving us from disaster to disaster.
We've had anti-trust legislation on the books for a hundred years. Yet the "too big to fail, too big to jail" banks are untouched and bigger than ever, in spite of popular outrage from the right (Tea Party) and popular outrage from the left (OWS). Yet nothing gets done. Why?
Valid points, Covah. I suspect the answer is the same on both sides of the aisle: easy money that's too good to pass up. Yikes!
Yet nothing gets done. Why?
Our federal government is not up to the challenge of running the country and protecting public funds. That is why the county needs to be broken up into smaller counties that can be properly governed.
Jeebus people. The Financial Services Roundtable was started as the Banker's Roundtable. These are all the people that brought us the financial crisis. People who are the biggest, greediest, least likely ever to face a courtroom, misery mongers in the world. And who feeds them most? Government.
They are the best reason possible to make Govt. live within it's means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Services_Roundtable
Annie Oakley: You are eating your own... It's kinda astounding to hear directly from a "base" right winger like this... Makes you wonder why these Wall Street Robber Barons give so generously to the Republicans... Have we reached a turning point...
Shooter, do you actually read the blog posts, or do you just cruise the Comments section and insert snide remarks where you see fit?
It wasn't just the bankers or Financial Services people who "sided with the President" in this debacle. Responsible business people knew that threatening default was a crazy thing to do.
Deny it all you want, but Boehner's tactics (and those of all the whiny GOP operatives) are just not defensible. Period.
JL, you're going to argue "defensible"? Right after the Obama administration was willing to raise taxes on everyone, not just the rich? I don't think so.
You're welcome to your opinion, Shooter. It's still a free country. Just understand it's only your opinion.
Just like it's only your opinion also.
Well, yes. Except I actually had independent corroboration for my "opinion." (See 4.2) Where's yours?
I see, you're citing other opinions to bolster your opinion. Yeah that's a real game changer there.
Shooter, you're just showing your ignorance. The quote included facts, as represented by Steve Benen. Those are not opinions. There's a difference. Now, maybe you're saying Steve is lying or inaccurate. But they're not opinions. Get it?
JL, predictions are by definition, an opinion.
Boehner's actions are easily defensible. You may not agree with action, but that won't change anything. The left will have to reduce actual spending. Not the rate of growth, but actual spending. You can do it the easy way or the hard way, your choice.
When you play tennis, you keep your eye on the ball. It's not one of the rules; it's because if you don't, you won't be very successful. And when you're having a discussion, you need to keep your eye on the subject of the discussion.
We began this by your saying it was the Financial Services Roundtable/Bankers Roundtable that backed the President. I pointed out that, no, it was also many other groups within the business community, many that had no affiliation with the banking industry. In other words, knowledgeable people, many of whom you might expect to back conservative measures, are encouraging the Republican caucus to decline to hold the debt ceiling hostage for ransom. It wasn't just my opinion, but rather citations from Steve Benen's blog.
Really, you should read more carefully before you post another response.
Which part of "their opinions are still just opinions", are you having trouble with?
Clearly, you're not an attorney. Did you know that speech is not always considered 'hearsay' in court? This takes a little intelligence to understand the distinction. When a person takes action based on something someone else told him, the speech crosses the line and is considered an action like any other behavior. That's not to say that the words were true, but that the words were the reason for doing something. Same as if you found a guy's phone number in your wife's pocket.
I stand by my statement that, according to the facts as presented in the blog, knowledgeable people, aside from the Financial Services Roundtable members, are urging John Boehner not to hold the debt ceiling hostage. Now what part of that statement don't YOU understand?
And Shooter, I've given you way more time and effort than you deserve. From here on, you're going on Ignore. Nite-nite. . . .
Darn those pesky facts.
???? Yes all those people are urging Boehner not to hold the debt ceiling hostage. Why? Because in their -opinion- something bad will happen. Which part of that are YOU having trouble with?
Thanks for the ignore, it will save me and other people time.
DisgustedWithItAll, I haven't seen any sign that Obama's going to cave. What signs have you seen?
What signs have you seen that The Obomination will not continue his ongoing role as The Capitulator In Chief? Having continually and repetitiously capitulated to the hostage takers, why expect Obama to do otherwise? The Obomination has 'signaled' before that he would not cave and then he has! Time after time after time...
Given that he has generally been willing to give away the store when he "negotiates" - most recently his willingness to give away Social Security despite his campaign promises - one can look at experience and have very little faith in the man's ability to "negotiate." He, the fools Daley and Geithner, were willing to give away everything back in 2011 , and would have if Lew hadn't brought him up short.The only reason I voted for the Good Emperor Obummer was because he was less of a worthless PoS than his opponent. How wonderful was that???
Read that book called Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander. It was interesting even though there was some other literature don’t recall the names, but did talk about the levels of Heaven. Endless Universes and species are interesting and most likely certain. But why didn’t Eben Alexander ask about Hell that interests me. Because for one there is always a purpose with God and hell does exist. Is it just so we as people get an insight in modern days to what heaven consists of that could be. Since as we develop and our knowledge increases, we do understand how to take a look at things better without these narrow-minded men twisting the truth of it all into lies and deceptions. And the other point is just a speck of evil is here and there in the Universe doesn’t really show how well we as a species are doing. Especially when we are told once again that there are certain people that are power craving, corrupt, arrogant, hypocrites, greedy, and deceivers. Because in the end, these are the very people that would cause our extinction as a species and are the very soul of evil in the world. By rights, we know these are also the very people that do go to hell, since their intentions are nothing really about caring of others, except to bring slavery, misery, abuse, despair, and death to people and the world. And in reality are in a constant plight of these dead beats. Jesus tells us right out whom they are and to watch out for the rich bastards and the Pharisees so why do we keep putting up with their load of crap? Shouldn’t we as a species that does not want to go extinct finally start figuring out the right things about Spirituality and changing things for the better? We have been slowly getting out of that crap hell hole these narrow-minded men have created let’s get down to the truth of it all.
And they still largely contributed to these idiots during the last election cycle. After this administration has brought rescue, record corporate profits, stagnant wages for the serfs.
The markets always do better under Democratic administrations (almost always) and yet they want republicans in control. I guess it's easier to steal when no one is guarding the hen house.
Q: Why should the working people of the U.S. always elect a democrat as president and never a republican?
A: Because the working people know that a republican president is going to screw them over and they can pretend to be surprised when a demoncrat president screws them.
SOV - That's two Far Right terms of hatred you have used in your posts today - "Obamination" and "demoncrat" - careful now, you are dangerously close to aligning yourself with Shooter as a troll who spews, not discusses. You are becoming "Sadder" every day. Does the sky have to fall 24/7 in order for you to express your concerns? I don't think your approach is healthy for you; please, consider getting some help.
What, Judy, you don't like dealing with the reality that Mr. Wonderful can't be trusted further than you can see him with your eyes closed? Were you visiting another planet when he tried to sell us all down the river last month in his "negotiations" with Bonehead, where we were only saved by the fact that the Republicans are dumber than he is?
TC - read the article posted above about trolling and blood pressure...where the trolls simply insult rather than speak to the point being made.
There's constructive criticism and then there's character assassination. I expect it from the Far Right; it's just much too hard to swallow from fellow liberals who use the language I despise. Words matter, but no, I don't have blinders on; I just choose to exercise my judgmental thoughts of this man's decisions by not spitting out insults to him or about him. What was that saying.that I disagree so strongly with...extremism in the defense of liberty...I think extremism in language on a blog that speaks truth to power can do so without lowering the standards of decency and civility as some do. In private conversations, I sometimes don't exercise such restraint; I think I have an obligation to in this public forum. Obviously, my judgment extends to yours' and others' words as well. (I've always said, "if there's one thing I can't tolerate, it's people who are intolerant!")
The House is filled with Flat Earth Folks who continue to equate the Federal budget with the family budget. Unless these economic morons are sent packing, we will have to pry the debt ceiling from their "cold, dead hands."
Sign me up!
Yes, the Federal budget equates directly to the family budget with one exception. What for families is counterfeiting, the Feds consider stimulus.
Annie Oakley: You own a house? A car? Got kids in College? I'm suprised you even try to defend that nonsense about a family vs government budget, elevate your game please... If people suddenly decided all debt is evil, our economy crashes harder than it ever has...
Sorry bud, but the one exception is the one exception. Everything else, everyone can relate to in their own experience. Feel free to test me. Revenue coming in, debt, expenses, savings, pick one any one and there is an example in real life that perfectly illustrates a macro issue.
Annie Oakley: Rigidity in the face of reason... How about war, natural disasters, man made disasters, foreign aid, diplomacy, borders... Your "family" have accounts for these contingencies and functions?
Same arrangement, different expenses. Families have checking accounts and credit cards to pay their expenses just like the Feds. Did you think families don't know how to pay a bill?
Pooper242 knows that families never borrow money to buy a car or a house or for any other reason! Idiot!
Annie Oakley: If you were right, my wife would have already unleashed drone strikes all around town, trying to vaporize me. As it is she is relegated to attempt to break into my gun safe to get a 45 she can't handle, or cyanide poison. Thankfully, you are just wrong...
@ Lebowsky..You want to know where the money went> it WAS a war, the "war on poverty" to be exact...and THENthe single parent homes,the drop out rates and the incarceration rates that went along with that particular Government giveaway and ALL of those proceeding the Great welfare society. And NOW the bill is due and poverty is even more prevalent and Liberals STILL want to spend and spend on failed programs. Greece and the EU is what happens under the Liberal "Social net" and Liberals won't be happy till America is Greece.
Scott: Are you sure we both live in the same country...
Women are from Venus and dude....YOU are just plain out there....
and proud of it...
I just wrote this on another post, but reading through this comment thread, maybe it belongs here, too. Let's use a simple family analogy. Bear with me for a moment here. (And my apologies for the sexist roles, but they're illustrative.)
Imagine Congress is the dad and the Executive Branch is the mom. Dad decides what needs to be bought for the house, car, kids' education and so forth; then Mom goes out and buys those things. Pretty soon, the bills start to come in, and as she (now specifically the Treasury Department, part of the Executive Branch) balances the bank statement and looks at the credit card bills, she realizes there is more to be paid than she has in the account. She goes back to Dad and tells him that, before the bills can be paid, he'll need to raise the debt ceiling. I mean, he'll need to get a loan to put more money in the account to cover the cost of what he has already sent her out to buy.
The alternative IS NOT spending less. The alternative is DEFAULTING on one's existing debts. Please get this straight in your head. And forget what you're hearing on FOX. They're just trying to muddy the waters.
I long for the day when Popper and little Scotty become "good Republicans."
How ironic it is when I see demands that the bills be paid. Will the debt incurred ever be paid? Not a chance. When bonds come due they are redeemed with borrowed money. Or maybe printed money.
It's been over half a century since debt has actually been paid down. I'm not holding my breath for the next occasion.
Shooter, you're really not having a very good day, are you? These stupid people on the MaddowBlog just don't get it. Here you're trying to offer your vast knowledge and superior judgment, and no one's buying it. Maybe it'll be better tomorrow.
Pooper serves a valuable function. He keeps us current of what the rightwing talking points are, ridiculous as they may be. He also is an example of the rightwing mentality, an inability to think in more than bumper stickers and simplified analogies. Anything that requires holding more than one thought in his short term memory is beyond his capability.
These same business folk should be screaming for a jobs bill which could increase their profits legally. A major infrastructure fiasco could cost them billions ie consider a major blackout that closes the financial sector for a couple of weeks.
The teapubs just want to finish flushing the country down the toilet so they can set up their plutocracy without any fuss.
Cheer us on with hugs and hugs we will wait for the kisses. (OooOnOoo; Ought Not Congress Rule on What is Money)
Why is this a problem? So I declare that he who signs his name as OooOoOoo can adjust it only by adding commas, as we would do to all sums in our favor. This is luck a problem and solution falling in place by brilliant coincident, thus OooOoOoo becomes Oo,oOo,Ooo called hundreds of millions, formally $00,000,000. It is even pronounceable Oh, Ohh, Ohh, alternative naught, ought, not.
It is Congress that has passed laws for print/minting currency that is thinly interpreted as allowing a $1T coin to keep the economy from deliberate malicious destruction, at the hands of the self-ruled Senate. Sorry, that is to confuse the root cause of the problem with the antics of such an exclusive club as the Senate, honorable and trust worthy as they used to be or even more generally all elected. But this is in sincere protest to the tragedy of the commons, the failure of our times' that has meant that the elected officials were selected by something of a fair vote, in fair campaign, paid for fairly; no longer was the best choice to represent all the voters held in that fair district, just beyond fairy land. The Tragedy is that the once elected the official can feign loyalty to any constituency, at will, tragically discarding the 'all' as so critical in representational democracy. In its stead the elected official can be loyal to the Party, his/her party no matter the makeup of those who happened to have been convinced to vote for them. Unwind the conventional notions that no longer hold and expanded into lengthy sentences no less obscure. The elected official can be loyal to a Moon Goddess, to the largest hidden contributor, even to the party of the opposition, or to the highest bidder who can guarantee the next election.
Hence the mob that elected him/her can simply be appeased by greater sum of money, favors and amusements, and the elected one can play Tyrant. Being Tyrant is challenge enough form some game players, the mob is loyal to nothing except empty power and the player is loyal to himself/herself.
It is not sufficient that we have forgotten the Tyrant we once over threw, we have also forgotten the Republic we had formed and over threw it as well, then to bow down to the Cash tyrant the ethereal spirit of a client media ironically owned by Cash.
So when it comes time for Congress to mint/print coins or money, that Congress can choose to print no money at all, to recall all printed money, to declare that eight zeros be added to all denominations, that money will be colored red or blue, or change its value during its vacations congress can do these things as well.
So I declare that he who signs his name as OooOoOoo can adjust it only by adding commas, as we would do to all sums in our favor. This is luck a problem and solution falling in place by brilliant coincident, thus OooOoOoo becomes Oo,oOo,Ooo called hundreds of millions, formally $00,000,000. It is even pronounceable Oh, Ohh, Ohh, alternative naught, ought, not.
So $00,000,000 is the Coin of the Realm, having value it does not; and from Congress it naught ought. A lesson from naught ought where Congress cannot do not naught. Then adding zeros seems harmless and fun; then real damage is in a pun and multiplying makes nil, where dividing makes many problems seem like infinite distractions.
Hint: Jacob Joseph "Jack" Lew signs OooOoOoo
F*ck the Obomination! Jack Lew is just another Wall Street @sshole who is going to run the Treasury for the benefit of the plutocrats.
RichMJones,
Are you the dude who keeps sending me e-mails promising me millions of dollars from an overseas account if I respond with my name, phone number, and banking information?
Just noticed the writing style and realism seem about the same.
SOV: you really do need to sit back, take your hands off the keyboard, pour out the coffeecup, breathe deep and count to 100, slowly. You're embarrassing both yourself and those of us who usually mostly agree with you.
And last year, they did deliver a very clear message: we were bluffing. After you ignored us and did major damage to the economy, we doubled down on our support of Republicans in the 2012 election.
And the Republican Party listened, and they learned that whatever those thousands of CEOs and lobbyists said one thing is eternal: they'll be back writing big checks to the Republicans for 2014, and 2016, and ...
They're owned by the PoG as much as the black vote is owned by the Democrats -- and maybe a bit less influential as a result.
The only way out of that trap is for them to stop right now funding war chests. Let the TP's see their campaign funds do nothing for two years, and make them sweat, especially if the financial industry finances a primary opponent.
And with proper support Elizabeth shall lead us---Bernie out there supporting her---Casey quiet reassurance:: Go Lizabeth Go!!God speed..
The reasons many businesses want the debt ceiling raised is they are cronies of Washington and Obama.They want the bailout if they run their corporation into the ground.That ain't free-market capitalism.They want favor with King Obama.
You have finished your second six-pack!
Doug, billhill doesn't drink beer when he can get the real stuff. It only takes a a couple swallows out of the jug to get him into his present state.
MSNBC and Rachel Maddow:
Why is this issue at the bottom of your blog list? Shame on both of you!! This is the biggest issue of our time and anyone with a small reptilian brain knows it. Will the Democrats take a small leadership role on the singular, main issue that faces the next 3 generations? 'Fraid not.
Money talks in politics. Refusing to fund their campaign war chests is sure to gain their attention. More than just a few TP's became dependent on the financial industry and carried their water once they got into office.