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First up from the God Machine this week is a breakthrough at one of the nation's most high profile, nationally recognized houses of worship.
The Washington National Cathedral, the nation's traditional host of prayer services for presidents and memorial services for national tragedies, announced on Wednesday that it would now also hold weddings for same-sex couples.
The cathedral, a neo-Gothic landmark in northwest Washington, is the seat of the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church and the Washington Diocese. [...]
[T]he cathedral's step carries weight because of its historic role as the nation's unofficial capitol of worship, where Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan were eulogized, where the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his last Sunday sermon and where the nation mourned the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Later this month, the cathedral will host the second inaugural prayer service for President Obama.
The cathedral's dean, the Very Rev. Gary Hall, told the AP, "I read the Bible as seriously as fundamentalists do. And my reading of the Bible leads me to want to do this because I think it's being faithful to the kind of community that Jesus would have us be." He added, "As a kind of tall-steeple, public church in the nation's capital, by saying we're going to bless same-sex marriages, conduct same-sex marriages, we are really trying to take the next step for marriage equality in the nation and in the culture."
As best as I can tell, the National Cathedral's announcement has not yet sparked an organized backlash from opponents of marriage equality.
Also from the God Machine this week:
* When President Obama is inaugurated a week from Monday, he'll take the public oath of office on two Bibles: one that belonged to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and another that belonged to Abraham Lincoln.
* As part of his task force on gun violence, Vice President Biden met this week with a group of 12 national faith leaders. According to Rev. Michael McBride, one of the attendees, the vice president talked about the moral imperative to take action. "He was asking the faith community to use the power of our moral voices and persuasion" to help find common sense solutions, McBride said.
* After the Rev. Louie Giglio withdrew from his scheduled role in Obama's inauguration, the religious right movement threw quite a fit.
* Scott Lively's case is worth watching. If his name isn't familiar, "that's because Lively's unique contribution to this anti-gay agenda is his persecution consulting in other countries, most notably Uganda, where he brags he is known as the 'father' of the anti-gay movements."
* The number of members of Congress who don't identify with any particular religion is not only rising, it's reached new heights.
* Another legal setback for the Roman Catholic Church: "Church leaders who mishandled child sex abuse allegations will be named in a 30,000-page cache of internal Archdiocese of Los Angeles records set for public release in coming weeks, a judge ruled Monday" (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
* And radical TV preacher Pat Robertson continues to share his unique brand of marital advice.
Leave a Comment:
Somebody get this guy back on his meds.
Theodore, Robertson knows exactly what he is doing. He is part of religious wedge of the Kochs Coalition to take over the government. Look at the money he gets from the Friends of Koch. The religious wedge is very important to the 2014 strategy. For the Koch-Rove 2014 strategy, activitating the anti-gay rights voters will be important.
Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show?
Only if he wanted to know what time it was.
All religion is based on fear; it is a world wide racket, as is war. Only empire/corps. gain from this BS. Cowards, liars and assorted gargoyles hide behind 'god' while enslaving and committing genocide on the powerless. I'm glad I'm not young any more and have no grandchildren; unfortunately, that does not give me leave to not care about those who are and do. May peace be upon us all; this side of the grave.
Cassandra, you are right that many who profess to be religious spread fear and make most of their appeals on fear. Some who say they are Christian use fear to their advantage, but they are in no way "Christian." Jesus preached love and mercy and forgiveness. The gospel means spreading the good news that Jesus came to show us the way to peace through love and service. So, Cassandra, not all religions are based on fear, but too many who profess to be religious are not when they spread fear and hate.
Jimes, thank you for your thoughtful comment. ITA.
In case you miss my later comment, Steve Benen, this is a great idea, This Week In God is wonderful. Makes Saturdays so much more interesting! Thank you!
And thank you for this format. We Ed Show exiles are all here now since he went stark white and confusing.
Ditto.
#1.8
Thanks, Crackheadawards, It is so good to see you here! I missed you!
A short test of the Religious Right’s (oxymoron there) true tolerance for Gays...
The group of a dozen or so men laughed quietly, comfortable in each others company. They had very different personal histories, but shared the same thoughts and opinions... they enjoyed the conversations that showed those differences, the personal likes and dislikes, even though that was what bound them together so tightly.
Obviously they were more than just good friends... and even though they were of different ages and backgrounds, they were like one another in many ways. Most had wavy shoulder length hair, dressed alike, wearing the long robes and sandals of the day.
Lounging in the soft dappled shade of the olive trees, they spoke in low hushed tones. Laughing easily among one another, each had a quiet, knowing affection for the other. After a while, quietly, the tallest one, good-looking, with sharp, chisled features rose to speak.
The one at his elbow raised his hand to silence the rest, turned, and said “Go ahead Jesus...”
Now the test...Tolerant enough to make it through to the last line without without a pre-judgement? I’ll bet not.
Hi India! You'll be glad to know I'm here too.
When man becomes desperate enough he is willing to believe anything that might save him or make it better...anything. 1000 yrs ago it was Zeus etc...now it's Jesus etc. all with the same stories of miracles etc that no one alive has ever seen. The Gods always need something from us...they always seem to demand something from us. One thing we know for certain is we all come from a long line of dead people...no matter what you "believe".
Pat has made a billion dollars off your beliefs but rather than build institutions to help the poor and sick he builds institutions to garner power over others.
Remember...God is not "a being"... God "IS" being...the watcher...the observer of that voice in your head is indefinable...it just is.
"Please proceed, reverend."
Whoa there, big fella. Pat, you represent a part of the church that has been demonizing women and rewriting it's own history for hundreds of years. The first mistake made was someone writing to you and expecting a logical reply.
Call me naive, but isn't it important that the president choose people to speak at his inauguration that reflect his values. The right wouldn't be satisfied with any decision the president made so their opinion really doesn't matter in this situation. They should stick to what they do best, once they figure out what that is.
Reading the right wing freakout about the Georgia crazynut reminds me of how nice it would be if things were the way they used to be: these rfundamentalist scum would be rolling around in the sawdust at their revivals, and we'd drive past and laugh at them.
TC;
I'd be more amused if it was snake worship...oh wait.....
Phenner, #3.2
I have heard that in the mountains of Appalachia, certain strange fundamentalists actually do handle snakes! I saw a documentary on that once.
I fail to see how that particular practice brings one closer to God. I should think it would bring one closer to the emergency room.
Hey India....good to see you....the whole snake handling thing is based on Mark 16 vs 17-18....It goes something like this....They shall take up serpents...and if they drink any deadly thing...it will not hurt them....
There is a lot of ridiculousness and severe nastiness in any version of that book.
What book are you referring to?
Hi TAP,
How are you and your family?
Yes, I do recall reading that, thank you. I don't believe I'd have found it easily without your help!
No problem India....We are all doing fine....how about you? Personally, I don't partake in that religion....However, I really don't think it is wrong....it is supposed to be an outward sign of their faith in God to do what he says he will do.....I am too afraid that the true meaning of that passage is not what they think it is....besides I don't like snakes....
Get bit by a snake, you're one step closer to God.
Larry 74 LOL That's the truth! That could get them very close to God ......or ....something!
TAP, I hate snakes. If something has no feet and slithers about the ground, I stay away from it. I scream and run.
I am good, TAP. The family is fine. My husband just beat me at Gin, but before that I whipped his butt at dominoes. We like games, neither of us are big on TV except for....um....what's the name of that station....? Oh, yeah, MSNBC!
That's good to hear India....still lovin that cat I see....I still love my dogs and my one cat....our other cat was killed last summer....I think it was a Coyote that got him..one of our dogs brought what was left of him back home....what a crying shame....He was such a sweet affectionate little kitty. I still miss him..
Snake-Handling Christians : Faith, Prophecy and Obedience
Apparently, they take the Bible literally...
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
David, Apparently they do. I thank God I am not one of their family. Imagine growing up with that! Shudder.
Obviously, the Bible cannot be taken literally. It was never meant to be taken that way. That doesn't mean it isn't the divinely inspired word of God. Scholars who study the Bible know that and still believe it to be the word of God.
I don't know any Jesuits who handle snakes, do you?
TAP, #3.11,
Yeah, we are still besotted by that cat. He is so unusual; I've never seen anything to compare to him! He has changed our idea of what animals are capable of. He will be 9 yrs. old in May.
I am so sorry to hear about your cat, that has to hurt terribly. Imagine your dog bringing it home. I find that amazing; he must have wanted you to know what happened and cared enough to bring it back to you. Animals are so amazing. Perhaps the dog missed it as well! We so underestimate these creatures. I have become a big animal advocate since having Jack.
There's a video I am going to try to link up. Off subject, but interesting. If I can find it. It shows a grown dog teaching a puppy to go down steps. The puppy was afraid of the steps. The older dog showed such patience and skill!
If you think Jack is amazing, you should see Eddie. I still think Eddie could teach Jack a few things. lol
LOL Larry,
I'm glad you're with us. Do you have that dog video, or did I see it somewhere else?
Jack doesn't take my pillow.
I rest my case.
Larry,
I have to log off, if you know where that video is, link it up.
Oh...I am being dragged off to bed...........g'night all..
India...
It was right here on The Rachel Maddow Blog on Friday...
Thanks, David, Here it is!
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/01/11/16464593-paw-litical-
metaphor?lite
Someday I am going to stump you, David!
You're quoting Bronze age mentallity before the beginning of science when there was little help at all for desperate conditions except to be desperate enough to do anything... so they prayed...under the organizers of tribes. Idiots today still believe in leeches...and not the ones you put on your skin either.
And the war on women continues...
Religious Conservative POV:
We'll be happy to have a truce!
After you women surrender.
We associate religion with patriarchy because religion is used to reflect social control structures which historically been patriarchal.
The obvious implication is that as with relentless rise in political power of women- perhaps culminating in the eventual dominance of US politics by women- how long will it be before religious structures bend to mirror the new social power realities? The Roman Catholic Church has long employed the figure of Mary as a transitional figure to convert those holding matriarchal religious beliefs in non european cultures. Many have advocated elevating Mary into what would become a Christian quaternity, where Mary, Mother of God adds to the trinity an anima figure representing the portal of newness into Being.
Atheists and agnostics no doubt would regard such an exercise as a futile and clumsy upgrade to extend the life of a doomed system of thought.
Notwithstanding Jung's excellent point about the absence of anima figure in the triune concept of the western church, I agree with the clumsy part because it does not go far enough. The opposite of the patriarchal system of domination of others does not have to do with the gender of the individuals subjecting the dominance. It has to do not with the subject, but with the very idea- the verb of dominance. This is the Germaine Greer notion that the opposite of Patriarchy is not Matriarchy but fraternity.
The member of the current trinity, "God the father" who is forever correct- forever in the most superior position is all knowing, and all controlling. He's not just the wise old man- he is the all powerful king. The model is broken. Three directions are simultaneously being pursued:
The structure of the pantheistic substrate with contextualized manifestations of godhead that humanity can relate to is reasonable. Rewriting and retelling of the stories of the manifestations seem to me to be the challenge for the religious left who reject the current contextualization emphasizing patriachal dominance.
"how long will it be before religious structures bend to mirror the new social power realities" of women?
Most mainline Protestant faith groups have been ordaining women for years. Women serve on church boards/councils/board of elders, etc. Some are bishops. And more recently "out" LGBT persons are being ordained. In my particular denomination, churches are free to call whomever they feel will serve the congregation best. IOW, they don't have to accept a woman or an LGBT pastor. My congregation was served for a time by a lesbian pastor. She was well loved. A few people had a problem with her - just as some had a problem with the straight male pastor who followed, or the straight male pastor who proceeded her - but that's just people being human.
For churches with progressive congregations, this is not as big deal, though it seems to me that there are deep cultural barriers to receptivity to wisdom coming from women. We are awash with tropes for women whose power plays off their sexuality, but those that transform through their spiritual force are rare. The stories are there- whether for the young with the moral authority of Joan of Arc, or the more mature- with the firm and wise council of a Rosalind Russell playing a Mother Superior.
I personally am a church every Sunday, prayers before meals kind of guy, and mostly by accident I have found myself in a congregation that is pretty right wing. I think most of them have fallen into the idolatry of literalism, but may trouble in breaking through has to do with the dynamics in the church I find baffling. The congregation's backbone- the regular church goers, the ones who show up for activities, host bible study, run the Sunday school classes- they are 75 to 80% women. Yet the "elders" are universally male.
As I have gotten to know them, there is a commonality among the women of this particular church that may be the key to it. They are the kind of women in high school who were a little nuts and only went with guys who would force themselves on them because though they had strong desires, they refused to admit to them, and wanted to have plausible deniability. It is a kind of psychotic neo rape game that made me think such girls had deep psychological problems. The dance got more complicated in my twenties, but it was basically the same with this type of woman I found baffling. Here I was in the post 60s liberated 70s and these presumably modern women really wanted me to be a cave man with them. I don't mean soft things like being the initiator, I mean total domination stuff, she saying no no no when she means yes yes yes. It's just a stupid game and I just want to get away from such lunatics.
So I am going to a church, and there they are. This is where all these lunatic ladies are- they are marture- 40 to 70 year olds, and they still want to be dominated by men.
We have had visiting preachers for the last 3 years as the elders have leisurely sought a new pastor. We have got some obnoxious ones, and I found some almost comic book parodies of the southern preacher, doing the metaphorical equivalent of jerking off in the face of his female congregants.
I thought, surely the female congregants were deeply offended by the ugly misogynist cocktail of dark class and sexual domination themes the pastor had spun together. How did they feel about the disrespect and lack of acknowledgement of their moral leadership in the church? But then I ran into that lunatic reaction. They almost universally loved the guys with these messages. Here, I saw them as being degraded by this jerk of a pastor, and they are almost kicking back and having a smoke after getting the business from this manly pastor. It was the old high school feeling- wtf- why on earth do you fall for that football lineman who has zero respect for you? And as for the men, they are coming out of the church all puffed up- with all their male domination memes confirmed and they are feeling pretty good that at least there is still part of the world were men are men and women know their place.
Certainly, my current church is a bit on the extreme, but although I have previously been a member of much more progressive churches where female pastors often spoke, I know that although it is true as you say that it is possible to have women pastors in most protestant churches, the statistics are not good. Only 5% of the ordained pastors were female in the 90s, and although that is up to 10% by 2009, that number does not represent those who are actually preaching to congregations. The women are relegated to occasional guest speaking things, officiating at weddings and funerals or performing counselling roles. That has got to change.
One of my hypotheses is that there is this noxious sexual dominance thing going on. I find it mystifying and deeply discouraging.
I didn't know that as a member of Congress there is some form to fill out denoting one's religious affiliation. What happened to freedom of/from religion?
I hate it when Pat Roberson says stupid sh*t like this - which is pretty much every time he opens his yap.
But I really hate it in this case, because, he's married.
And now the Catholic Church can say, "See, HE's married, our Clergy isn't, and we BOTH conclude that women are to blame! This is further proof that there's no reason for allowing our Priests to marry, so they might know something when they council on marriage. And certainly even MORE reason for us to decline female involvement in Church services."
Though not a believer, I was baptized in the Russian Orthodox faith, and, though our Priests are allowed to get married, many of them are just as misogynistic as many Priests are in the Catholic Church. And Rabbi's. And Imam's. And, etc...
And no, I can't define "many."
Do your own research. The Priest in my RO Church is clearly a misogynist. As is my church, in general. Women weren't even allowed to enter if they had pants on, until about 20 years ago. And NO - the other option wasn't to come in bare-assed - but in a dress (preferrably with and optional head scarf).
So, I suppose that's SOME progress...
If your religion considers women to be inferior to men, your religion is invalid.
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That very true logic "ash cans" all orthodox religions.
Luz, I agree entirely. The Catholic church has been demonized for that, and it is not true. The fact that women are not priests in no way degrades their status.
I have seen no evidence whatsoever of women being considered inferior to men in my religion. Indeed, Mary, the mother of God, is revered more in the Catholic church than any other. She is the Mother of the church. She is an example of faith, obedience, and discipline for all women.
Women are encouraged to participate in the church, and are considered a valuable asset. They are always invited to participate. I doubt that my parish is very different from others. I hope not!
so, when was the last woman invited to vote for pope?
they participate in everything except the decision making.
Wow, never realized I had any thoughts in common with Pat Robertson but I have 2 ex-wives and I have to agree with him that women are the cause of all martial problems. I know I was right all of the time. Why on earth do you think this bozo says what he says? Maybe he's getting a jump on pot smoking, doesn't look like a meth user though has enough $ to be a cocaine freak.
No, merital problems are not all caused by women. The attitude you just showed tell us why you have 2 ex-wives.
As I understand it, We all know everything, and We all are contrarians, except for you and I,,, but I'm not so sure about you...
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Could someone here find that original quote? or clean it up a little?
Dette?
"Everyone's Crazy Except You and Me...And I'm Not So Sure About You: America's Favorite Contrarian Cuts Loose" Lionel
I think John was being sarcastic
As much as I dislike Robertson, he does have a valid larger point. And that is that romance is the responsibility of BOTH parties in the relationship. It will not work if only one wants it to.
The rest of what he said, I guess he can make himself up nice and go romance himself.
I'm SOOO going to get in trouble for saying this.
You need to be willing to give the other person more than you expect to receive.
Relationships won't work any other way and I'm sure it's been like that for 2 million years.
You can't understand what this means if your judgement is clouded by prejudice and false conceptions.
Crackheadawards, LOL How true that is, to quote Dan Quayle.
In life we must always be willing to give more than we expect to receive.
I might add there are things with paws that can be trying as well, even if they are missing testicles. I've got one of those furry things here. He thinks his job is to wake me every single day at about 7:33 AM. He must know I am talking about him. He just walked in, stood up and poked me.
Good to see you.
Good to see you too.
After 46 years, I might have figured out how to get a relationship to work. And it is work. First rule: She's always right. lol
Larry 74, #7.9
And don't forget it!! LOL
my folks had one simple rule, expressed to me individually and unbeknownst to the other: give the other one 90% of the steak.
they also knew that the most important relationship in the family was the one between the parents. if that's sound the kids will be taken care of. i have met too many women (and a few men) who think that their relationship with the children was more important. they are wrong.
we always knew that if the boat was sinking we were the first to go overboard as is proper. nobody loved their kids as much as my folks, and us them. besides, as my father said (pre-cosby) "i made you, i can take you out in a heartbeat, and make another one just like you."
temporary me,
Our marriage will never end. Neither of us could give up the cat. LOL
Seriously, we have always believed our marriage was of primary importance. The children will be grown and gone and the two people in a marriage had better have worked to keep the marriage alive. We have always kept time for ourselves and did things together. It is so important. Your parents were smart.
The original version of the quote is "All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer." It is attributed to Robert Owen, an 18th century Welsh social and educational reformer.
Perhaps there's no public backlash from conservative/fundamentalist/evangelical churches because they already consider the Episcopal Church long fallen deeply into heterodoxy if not outright heresy, with their women priests and women bishops, etc. It is beyond their notice since the Episcopal Church is so far beyond the pale of what they consider legitimately "Christian" anyway.
Maybe we can start the "new" worse than muslims pariahs. The muslims could use a break and I'll bet the Episcopalians ain't afraid of no confrontations with the baps and the wasps. Divide and conquer is tooooo ez with religion.
I remember once useing the argument how can the "perfect" bibble be misconstrued into so many different religions? And I added "like what is a Presbyterian anyway?". To which the piano teacher/friend I was talking to said "I'm a presbyterian". A few years later I realized that my being a Scott, I should probably know better. I married a Korean lady who at that time was a baptist (I couldn't understand a word of the sermons/I babysat) and now she's a presbyterian (she joins whatever churchee for the sense of community).
I do think it would be a good idea for Obama to be very vocal about being a ____. Then 47% of the country would be obligated to hate it.. Baptist would be particularly poignant.
Cast a jaundiced eye on any clergy- self ordained or not- who mentions money.
A relationship between you and the god of your choice does not need an intermediary!
Pres. Obama is having, for him, a twice in a lifetime event, which very few have celebrated. He certainly has the right to choose which outsiders attend. He is stuck with the bigots and misogynists of congress, so he does not need another one. No recognition is earned by those so prejudiced, so giving one national exposure is counter-productive to the development of an inclusive society.
Although I totally agree with your comment let's be clear. The Inaugural Committee chose the pastor to give the 'blessing'. It was when he was vetted that he was found 'wanting'.
Things will be getting better when in the United States believing in something for which there is no evidence raises an eyebrow instead of not believing in something for which there is no evidence raises the eyebrow.
Pat - I would never call him Reverend, that is reserved for men who are - what scripture supports this theory? And the husband, should he have to keep up appearances also? Good grief - I hope Mrs. Robertson has kept herself slim and trim all these years - 'cause now we know - it's okay to drink or whatever if the 'little woman' lets herself go. What a jerk!
I guess the text "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves his church" means that Christ is pretty much ignoring his church right now as it has allowed itself to get pretty shabby indeed.
I imagine the money must be very appealing to allow one to remain married to such an embarrassing man.
Pat Robertson has no credibility to any sane, reasonable person. He lives in a world pf self delusion. Add to that the fact that he is a doddering old fool, ill informed, ill educated and possibly senile.
So I don't take seriously anything he says. I don't take seriously anything any religious extremist says.
I do want to say to Rachel Maddow that this is my favourite part of her blog, the "This week in God" on Saturdays. I hope she keeps it going.
Keep in mind it's Steve Benen who writes all the blogs, not Rachel.
And he does an awesome, awesome job. Thank you Steve! Keep it all up!
#13.2 Well, then, thank you Steven Benen. I love Saturdays with you and God!
I have spoken with others in my church (Catholic) who are going to start checking it out.
Pat Robertson makes his money by telling the mentally ill to send him all their money.
@India
Steve brought "This Week In God" with him when he moved from The Washington Monthly's "Political Animal" blog to Ms. Maddow's site.
Update:
Actually, Steve was doing "This Week In God" back when he ran his own blog called "The Carpetbagger Report."
This Week in God might be one of the best headers ever.
This week, by god. Has a familiar ring.
and in additional news of possible interest to fellow "twig" fans...
Germany's Roman Catholic bishops fired a criminologist studying sexual abuse of minors by their priests on Wednesday, prompting him to accuse them of trying to censor what was to be a major report on the scandals.
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2013/01/09/german-catholic-bishops-sack-head-of-independent-sex-abuse-study/
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A Cheektowaga, New York high school science teacher has filed a federal court lawsuit against her school district complaining that she was required to remove all personal non-curricular items of a religious nature from her classroom and refrain from promoting religion in her communications with students.
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2013/01/high-school-teacher-sues-over-directive.html
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A Texas federal district court has refused to grant a preliminary injunction to a high school student who objected on religious grounds to wearing a Smart ID badge containing an RFID chip. The student's father claimed that wearing the badge would be the mark of the beast, and he had religious objections to the school tracking his daughter.
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2013/01/student-loses-religious-challenge-to.html
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The U.S. Supreme Court this week declined to hear a case that had made constitutional challenges to a Georgia law restricting the the right to freely carry handguns, knives or long guns in 8 specific locations, including any place of worship.
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2013/01/supreme-court-denies-cert-in-challenge_8.html
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Italy's central bank has blocked all electronic payments through cash machines and by credit cards in Vatican City following the world's smallest state's failure to fully comply with international anti-money laundering rules.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/business/italy-vatican/index.html
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An Illinois priest calls 911 after getting stuck in handcuffs and gag he was "playing with."
http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/36716704
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Americans' acceptance of gays and lesbians is continuing to grow, with a new poll from LifeWay Research, which was founded by the Southern Baptist Convention, showing that just over a third of Americans view homosexuality as a sin, down from 44 percent a year earlier.
http://www.religionnews.com/2013/01/10/americans-less-inclined-to-view-homosexuality-as-a-sin/
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The Republican Led House of Representatives to Continue Funding DOMA Defense
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONGRESS_RULES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-03-17-32-48
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During a radio interview with Sandy Rios of the American Family Association Tuesday, Pastor Scott Lively said "The last straw for God before He brought the flood was when they started writing wedding songs to homosexual marriage and Jesus said that you'll know the end times because it will be like the days of Noah. There's never been a time in the history of the world since before the flood when homosexual marriage has been open and celebrated, and that's another sign that I believe that we're close to the end."
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/christianity/audio-pastor-scott-lively-says-wedding-songs-homosexual-marriage-caused
Religious nuts are going to claim that rising sea water from global warming provides proof that supporta all of their delusions.
surely it's still Obama's fault.
Imagine the sight of a U.S. President taking his or her oath of office to "We The People" by placing a hand on the display enshirning the U.S. Constitution...I am thinking that it would be more appropriate for a newly elected U.S. president to forego the traditional Inaugural Day oath of office venues at the U.S. Capitol involving the religious icons and mystic pleadings (that I suspect are more of a submissive act directed toward Members of the U.S. Congress and the plutocrats that they represent rather than toward some supernatural entities) and instead choose to have his or her oath of office administered with the Rotunda for the Charters of Freedom within the National Archives Building.
While this change of venue proposed venue for the U.S. presidential oath of office would likely not be advanced by any member or employee of any federal executive, legislative, or judicial branch of government, it would be highly entertaining to see such an event played out by Hollywood within the context of a motion picture.
Slightly OT, but the National Cathedral is one of my favorite places in Washington. It took 83 years to build, and although chartered by Congress, it takes no funds from the government. It is operated with private funds. Not only that, but it is open to all faiths, including Islam. At one time, the Cathedral was home to a Jewish synagogue. How cool is that?
The stained glass windows in the Cathedral are all different; one of my favorites is the one embedding a moon rock. There are numerous tours; I have taken several, and one I'd like to do soon is the gargoyle tour. The Cathedral even has a Darth Vader gargoyle.
http://www.nationalcathedral.org/about/darthVader.shtml
To clarify, I live near DC and enjoy my visits to the Cathedral, but I am not a member of the church there, nor am I a "friend." I just find the National Cathedral to be one of the most intriguing, interesting buildings in DC.
When I lived in D.C. I was in pig heaven. Sooo many museums. Folks do not even know there's the Navy/Marine museum, Bethesda has a really cool doll house museum, many former president residences are open to the public, Fort Washington is great for picnics/photography, and on and on...
When I went to the cathedral my then 4year old daughter and I were climbing down the stairs of the east tower with some other visitors. We all broke out laughing because my daughter really wanted to take the "alligator" down. I kept the conversation going i.e. we didn't take the alligator up,,, we can look for the alligator but,,,. Very cute.
I'm not sure this was a revolutionary or civil war site that I was visiting in Maryland, but I'd parked my car and carried my sleeping daughter (3 years old) up the hill to get to the site. When I got down, my car was surrounded by 5 cop cars. Someone had seen me carrying the little babe into the woods. Funny thing in this story is, yes, those baby pictures really did come in handy as that was the only ID I had for her. I was glad someone had called..
Very cool, a Darth Vader Gargoyle on the Washington National Cathedral (idea submitted by a child fan of Star Wars).
I must say that I'm pretty proud of Rev. Gary Hall's decision to start performing same-sex marriages in such a visible American religious building. I also admire his stance on reconciliation among faiths, which, to me, is the crux of our Freedom of Religion. The Founding Fathers did not intend to either promote or abolish religion, they were ensuring that the fledgling United States of America could not possibly be controlled by one dominant religion, as England and many European countries were at the time of the signing of the Constitution. After all, people were emigrating to America to escape religious persecution in their own countries.
Rev. Gary Hall's states that, "A more globally interconnected world is requiring far more attention to be paid to religious differences and multi-faith engagement." This quote is from the WNC's 2012-2014 Strategic Plan, in the Letter from the Dean: http://www.nationalcathedral.org/pdfs/StrategicPlan2012.pdf
Based on this, I do not see a political conflict with President Obama being sworn in with his hand on a Bible. He, too, has freedom of choice when it comes to religion. His personal choice does not mean that America will be run by the United Church of Christ, of which he is a member.
We spend a few hours at the National Cathedral when we visited DC on vacation. I agree it's a fascinating building. The windows are amazing - the one next to the statue of Lincoln is gorgeous but represents the flames of the Civil War IIRC. I also loved the window with the moon rock. We missed seeing the gargoyles as we spent the entire visit inside. We also got to hear a mini-concert by the organist (he also gave a brief talk on the history of the instrument beforehand). Fantastic!
Perhaps the Innaugural Committee might want to consider asking the Very Rev. Gary Hall to give the benediction?
Never happen.
"This Week In God" is indeed a great title for this ongoing column. At least I hope it's ongoing; it's engaging and informative.
But I think that the title originated on the Colbert Report, or maybe the Daily Show. Anyone?
++++
RAA I love it. I'd like to see a serious theological discussion some week.
It rang a bell to me, as well. Not sure which show, though.
Both... Stephen Colbert originated the "This Week In God" segment while he was still on "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart"...
Where The Hell Are All These Bleeping Churchees On Gun Control.
If they would help this legislation would be a slam dunk.
Putt a coma after the word "help" above.
In the last paragraph of the article "12 national faith leaders", the writer doesn't include baptist,,, because the baps are a subset of the protestants? right?
I was going to ask the same thing but we all know where they are; drunk and shooting at something like a good churchee.. Oh yeah, always blame the wife, it never fails!
"Where The Hell Are All These Bleeping Churchees On Gun Control"
To quote from my denomination's website:
Resolved (in 1993!)
To communicate to Congress and the President of the United States the urgent concern of the Church regarding the violence associated with the widespread availability of handguns and military assault weapons and [regarding] our support for the Brady Bill and other controls over the manufacture, sale, and private ownership of handguns and military assault weapons;
To call upon all of our congregations, synods, and appropriate agencies to work for the passage and strict enforcement of local, state, and national legislation as appropriate, that rigidly controls the manufacture, importation, exportation, sale, purchase, transfer, receipt, possession or transportation of handguns, assault weapons, and assault-like weapons and their parts, excluding rifles and shotguns used for hunting and sporting purposes, for use other than law enforcement and military purposes...
OK?
Prying mind would like to know which denomination?
Ahh, Scott Lively. He co-wrote The Pink Swastika, which insists that Hitler was a homosexual. An idee-fixe for some wingnuts.
It's actually nice to see the better side of religion for a change. To bad Pat R. had to destroy it. Scott lively - Anyone from Oregon will remember him - he helped start the OCA with Lon Mabon here in the 90's when gay rights legislation was heating up. He was sued by a Just Out reporter alleging he beat her up at a function. He was ordered to pay restitution by the court and the guy dissapeared into CA to become a lawyer. CA bar told him he couldn't be a lawyer unless he paid his fine to the woman. So he was forced to comply nearly ten years after the fact. Sometimes, God finds a way to mete out justice.
Have you every thought about this problem.
One of the strongest images and allegory's of religion is that of a shepherd and his flock: David's PSALM 23: "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want...."; the Pope carrys the curved shepherd's staff (as do many other religious figures) "Thy Rod and Thy Staff" and is the Shepherd of the flock of the Catholic faithful - as is a priest, pastor, minister faith leader, etc. to the members of his congregation.
Through time that analogy has always been extreme comforting & consoling, BUT have you every really considered it's reality and potentially it's hidden meanings?
Think of a shepherd and his flock.
What happens to the lamb of a shepherd? Lamb chops, leg of lamb - what's your pleasure?
What happens to the sheep of a shepherd's flock? Wool and then mutton chops and stew.
A shepherd KILLS HIS FLOCK or SELLS THEM TO SLAUGHTER. That's what his flock exists for - a supply of wool and a supply of food - DINNER.
So a shepherd, as a normal matter of course, "betrays" and slaughters the members of his flock. The flock which that he earlier protected and cared for all lives - lives that he is directly responsible for ending.
If that is the normal, expected out come of the true relationship between and shepherd and his flock - the only purpose for their existence to begin with - what is the real and true meaning and reality behind the consistent image of a religious shepherd and the flock of his followers?
If we can find mysterious, misinterpreted and questionable (but extraordinarily rewarding both financially, in publicity, in power and in determining the nature of US support for Israel) "end of days" manipulations & meanings in books of the Bible and related writings, THEN:
What is the true and unrevealed hidden meaning of a betraying shepherd and the flock he betrays?
Are we to be delivered FROM something or TO something?? Why was the image of a betraying shepherd (a necessary means & method of physical and economic survival) and his doomed flock placed in our belief writings?
Now, will you ever look at the concept of the GOOD SHEPHERD the same way again?
There is NO "GOOD" SHEPHERD.
This is a very interesting analogy. I always wondered why people missed the part about offering sacrafice - a burning of the best sheep, oxen, etc. from the shepard's herd. The very first murder was over a sacrafice in which the shepard was killed. So, continueing the thread of the shepard analogy: The shepard raises a flock and sacrafices the best of the herd to God and gets killed for his trouble and the killer will be protected 70 times 7. So the shepard of the shepard does not think highly of the shepard. You're absolutely screwed as a shepard.
Bible, bible, Eve got burned for libel.. I'm certain the whole "two people who love each other getting married" thing in the NC is going to spell ruin for the country, as opposed to (list too long..)..
Two Bibles? I can see where this might head. The next Repub to get elected President will publicly boast about his use of three Bibles, and some guy down the line will try to boost his macho cred by using five Bibles and a Harley Davidson maintenance manual ...