When I talked to him last year, Mississippi State Representative Bubba Carpenter sounded quite unhappy about being in the limelight for having said that coat hanger abortions might come back in his state, "[b]ut hey, you have to have moral values. You have to start somewhere." At the time, Mississippi Republicans had just passed a law designed to close the state's only abortion clinic, and after tape of Carpenter's boasting about coat hangers got loose on the Internets, the state party tried to make that clip harder to see.
Now Carpenter is back with a couple of high-profile initiatives. First of all, he is leading Republicans' efforts to arm teachers, with help from an NRA lobbyist in writing the bill. Carpenter is also pushing a measure that would make testing positive for controlled substances while pregnant a form of felony child abuse, with a sentence of 10 years to life.
(2) (a) Any person who shall intentionally (i) burn any child, (ii) torture any child * * *, (iii) except in self-defense or in order to prevent bodily harm to a third party, whip, strike or otherwise abuse or mutilate any child in such a manner as to cause serious bodily harm, or (iv) test positive for a controlled substance while pregnant as provided by Section 1 of House Bill No._____, 2013 Regular Session, shall be guilty of felonious abuse of a child and, upon conviction, shall be sentenced to imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for life or such lesser term of imprisonment as the court may determine, but not less than ten (10) years. For any second or subsequent conviction under this subsection, the person shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life.
The legislation was referred to a judiciary committee on Monday.
As written, it calls for pregnant women arrested on drug charges to be tested for controlled substances. It's not entirely clear how the state would first determine that a woman was pregnant, if she's not showing, or how it benefits anyone to have a mom in prison for life on a drug crime.
Mississippi Republicans control both chambers of the legislature and the governorship, so they can pass the bill if they want to. Last year, the Mississippi GOP did bounce a bill that likely could not have withstood a court challenge. Prosecuting pregnant women for child abuse is neither uncommon nor uncontested. Supporters of abortion rights point out that it grants personhood to fetuses, an idea Mississippi voters rejected in 2011. (More about the story in Mississippi on the show later this week.)
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Jeebus, now you're defending drug users who are pregnant? Boy, being a fetus is risky business when the left is in town.
Not defending the pregnant drug user, but a life sentence is a bit extreme.
ah, shoots. Shall we also incarcerate men who might screw up their sperm by drinking or drugs too?
I don't see an exception for medically prescribed controlled substances.
Good thing the Left is around, someone has to defend children once they are born! It certainly ain't the wingnuts like dribbler.
Way back, before Roe v Wade, I went to visit a friend and found her laying on her doorstep in a pool of blood. She had gotten a back room abortion, and something went wrong. Her brother, in a drunken rage, had beaten and raped her. I remember what the days were like when women used hangers, took pills, and took risks in an effort to miscarry. I never want to see those days again for women.
We should not have to explain ourselves, although valid explanations are abundant. Nor should abstinence be expected. Sex is healthy, builds intimacy, and is fun. The small government, freedom-loving GOP needs to stay out of women's bodies.
You know, when the Supreme Court ruled that women had a right to choose whether or not to terminate their own pregnancies, for their own personal reasons, they surely did not foresee that certain state legislators would sneak around the law to thumb their noses at the highest court in the land. Shame, shame, SHAME!
Considering the number of conceptions that occur while either the father, mother, or both are intoxicated, and the wing nuts insistence that life begins at conception, I wonder if Bubba will need to start following couples home from the bars, wait for copulation, and then burst in with his breathalizer and home pregnancy test, ready to prosecute for child abuse.
@KJ, CR, IA
That is so dystopian. But doable. Bible Belt sex police. I love it. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Mike -
"Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the Pope!"
Seriously.
Would you go to a doctor or use a lawyer named Bubba?
One really has little other choice in the Southern states...
You would think that if any state would pass a law like that the punishment would be 90 days in drug Rehabilitation clinic and some classes to deal with someone who's about to be a mother. Not sentenced to jail with the possibility of not seeing her child again seems cruel and unusual.
Mississippi, find yourself another country to be part of - Phil Ochs
Not to mention, the child would be sentenced to ten years in foster care or living with a relative.
...this is extremely horrifying.
did the colonist that settled the south come from a part Europe no one knew about
Short term thinking without following the logical outcome of the process - that is the only thing the GOTP is good at. So will all women locked up on drug charges be forced to take a urine test to see if they're pregnant? And how much is that going to cost the state, because you know financially responsible rethugiCons must make this revenue neutral?! And what about the rights of the arrested woman? And if said woman is arrested and it turns out that she's pregnant, exactly who is going to take her baby while she is in jail, and again, how much will that cost the state.
I think someone should tell the GOTP to stop with the in-breeding, marrying their 4th cousin once removed, because their brains are going to mush!
Only one comment: his name is Bubba
Republicans: Because incarcerating mothers, tearing families apart, and forcing children to be raised by foster parents (paid for by the taxpayers) is what Jesus would do.
You win the Internets today!
when you see women solely as vessels for childbearing, this is the kind of crap that follows. This is just a logical step in wingnut misogyny.
Don't we want women to get good prenatal care? With this kind of legislation women will be less inclined to seek that care out because apparently once you become pregnant you're public property and any idiot can have a say in what is done to you. Is this going to be extrapolated out to a pregnant woman who has a glass of wine in her third trimester? Will she be thrown into jail? Best stay away from those poppy seed muffins, you just never know.
Aren't prescription drugs controlled substances? I think so. So technically under this law, if a pregnant woman takes a drug prescribed by her doctor, she could be tested and incarcerated and have to give up the baby.
Methinks Bubba needs to experience a good colonoscopy - without any anesthesia or pre-procedure purging agent.
I am really tired of those who claim that opposition to abortions is a moral stand. Not allowing an abortion that will save the life of the mother, terminate a pregnancy that will produce a badly deformed baby that will die in a year or two or that can never grow up to take care of itself and live a normal life, or that will so strain the resources of the family that they will sink into poverty is totally immoral in my book.
And so many of these same people oppose birth control that will prevent many of these pregnancies in the first place.
A moral stand is one that prevents suffering and that is not distructive to the life that is already on this planet.
Not sure why there has to be qualifiers. Many scenerios surround the realization of an unwanted pregnancy, either a woman has the right to choose to continue it or not. Conservatives use moral distinctions to outlaw abortions, but it boils down to removal of choice. The left doesn't need to catagorize reasons to keep choice available to women, we just need to fight for choice.
And I agree, bflynch, we need to work harder in the early years of a woman's life to ensure she has a solid foundational knowledge of options available to her long before that unwanted pregnancy ever occures. Abortion numbers will diminish if knowledge and access to birth control are made as open and critical as the abortion issue has become.
The lamest excuse I've heard from pro-lifers is that contraception gives permission to have sex. That is absurd. If abstinance can be preached, then so can the proper use of contraceptives.
If men don't want coat hangers used in their medical procedures, then do not allow them to make coat hangers part of women's medical procedures. Stop letting men dictate this issue. American women are just as smart and strong, and far better able to direct the choices of their lives than men will ever understand.
No offense to guys...
Need More Coffee, No offense to guys, but I agree 100%. It is unbelievable watching these guys discuss women's health and bodies, especially when no women are at the table. Wouldn't think we'd even have to mention it at this point.
well, I've always wondered when the lunatics would decide that they need to start strapping women to tables so they can control them entirely though a pregnancy. seems that this particular idiot is getting start on that.
I'm just trying to understand the organizational problems involved. Will they need to test all Mississippi women once a month to determine if they are pregnant, then test the pregnant ones for controlled substances which include some prescription drugs?
Or will they test all women on some schedule for controlled drugs, then test for pregnancy?
Will they access pharmacy records for prescribed controlled drugs, then track down the females and force them to take a pregnancy test?
Actually, if they have to test all women for pregnancy every month, they can also compare months to see if any pregnancies have terminated before live birth. Any termination - even miscarriage could be ruled "felonious abuse of a child " and subject to imprisonment.
It seems like this would be terribly expensive for a relatively poor state - perhaps Mississippi could apply for a Federal Grant.
A life sentence for child abuse? Do rapists get that in Mississippi?
A thought occurred to me today. I remember when Dubya was in office, Democrats had a Benjamin Franklin quote well memorized. It went something along the lines of "those who give up liberty for security deserve neither." Progressives were rightly upset that Dubya had gone after our 4th amendment rights. Now progressives demand that we must give up our 2nd amendment rights, so we can have security. They say we need to limit these rights in order to save lives. Logically, could you not make the exact same argument when it comes to abortion rights?
Here's a novel idea. How about we all agree that the Bill of Rights are sacrosanct?
You ask the tough questions, Alva. And I agree with your points. Let me toss a question back at you.
We need less dead school kids and no returning to the age of women dead from botched backroom abortions. The courts hear cases every day of individual circumstances, a ruling is made, precedence is set, and pieces of paper have been amended to better serve people. Our Constitution has been amended to advance the human race before.
Can it not be adjusted ever again, even to save lives?
Alva, I understand your paranoia about losing your guns - gun advocates won't let us forget. Please get it though - no one is taking your weapons. The Second Amendment is NOT under threat. Even the Robert's court (with Justice Scalia agreeing) says that regulation does not a threat make. The Amendment does refer to a well-regulated militia. It could be interpreted to mean that all citizens should be able to have a weapon because all citizens serve in the military.
oh yes this is a government I want to live under.
Those anti-gov assault rifles are starting to look like a good idea.
Please Mississippi, please vote this insanity out of office.
Add to that law the NRA relatd crimes against 6 and 7 year old school children, torn to bits by multiple rounds in mere seconds. Protecting children we all ready have is much better place to start.
Change begins with US. I do enjoy all the salient, reasonable, and pragmatic solutions and commentary on this blog. But, while it's great that we share them with each other, in times like these, it really is a form of intellectual activism that needs to be taken a big step further.
If you've never before written a member of Congress, there are tabs and a map, on the website below, that will tell you how to find members, and others that show you how to direct, address, and compose your email.
Click this link: http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/
If we really want to be an active part of the solutions to our collective mires we need to let the right people know how we feel. We must inundate the email inboxes of our members of Congress with our wishes and strongly urge them to vote the way we want them to vote...even those in the GOP. The "will of the people" is what they love to opine about--well, let those intransigent obstructionists hear, loudly and clearly, your urgent call to action. If we bombard their inboxes with emails (even simply paste in your post with some polite urgency--promises to vote against them if they don't do our bidding--and suggested action!), we will have a better shot at achieving our goals. Talk is cheap...let's give it some real value.
Clisk this link to facilitate that end:
http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/
If you've never before written a member of Congress, there are tabs and a map, on the website below, that will tell you how to find members, and others that show you how to direct, address, and compose your email.
Let's use all avenues of due process available to us to achieve useful, pragmatic change NOW!
I am absolutely disgusted by this. I have no other words.