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Charles and David Koch
How far off the rails has the Republican debt-ceiling hostage strategy gone? The Koch brothers' Americans for Prosperity wants the GOP to change direction. The Financial Times reported yesterday:
A conservative activist group backed by the industrialist Koch brothers is urging Republicans to show restraint during US debt ceiling negotiations, representing a shift in position by the usually hardline Americans for Prosperity.
The move by the influential group underscores concern that a political stand-off over extending the US's borrowing limit, which many Republicans are pushing for at the end of February, would diminish public support for sharp cuts in government spending, AFP's stated goal.
Tim Phillips, president of AFP, said the debt-ceiling crisis causes a "messaging" problem for conservatives -- if there's too much emphasis on debt-reduction, Phillips argued, it "becomes easier for liberals" to push a combination of spending cuts and new revenue. (The AFP doesn't care about the debt; it cares about shrinking government and slashing public investments.)
Phillips added that Republicans ought to avoid being labeled "hostage takers," which is made easier by the current GOP strategy.
Let's pause for a moment to appreciate the fact that when congressional Republicans have lost the Koch brothers' group, the party has a real problem on its hands.
The AFP's advice coincides with a new Washington Post/ABC News poll that found a clear majority of the American public (and even 45% of self-identified Republicans) believes the fight over spending cuts and the fight over the debt ceiling should be separate -- which is the exact opposite of the GOP plan.
Making matters even worse for Republicans, the New York Times reports today that the White House intends to partner with corporate executives on a debt-ceiling increase, which should be easy since "big business ... is "nearly united in skepticism of, or outright opposition to" the Republicans hostage strategy.
So, let's take stock of who opposes and who supports the GOP's debt-ceiling plan.
Among those who believe the debt-ceiling should not be held hostage, we find business leaders (including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable), economists, the Federal Reserve, several congressional Republicans, the financial industry, the Treasury Department, a variety of Republican media personalities (including Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich), and now the Koch brothers' lobbying group.
Indeed, even conservative media outlets are balking. The Wall Street Journal editorial page and National Review have urged their Republican allies to change course, and today, the editorial board of the Union Leader in New Hampshire, one of the most conservative editorial pages in the nation, urged the GOP to give up on the hostage strategy.
Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives need to take a firm stand against Washington's reckless spending habits. They just need to find a better place to make that stand than from atop the debt ceiling. [...]
Obama has no desire to [put the federal government on the path to a balanced budget], which means Republicans will have to force his hand at some point. This is not that point.
On the other side of the fight we find congressional Republicans, Tea Partiers, and ... no one else.
If House Speaker John Boehner has a back-up alternative to threatening to hurt Americans on purpose unless his still-undefined demands are met, now would be a good time to roll it out.
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Boehner has completely lost his mind if he continues to pursue this. The booze has killed all his brain cells.
Actually, the GOP made its bed by sleeping with AFP who created the Tea Party, a group which has taken on its own life and one its master can no longer control or contain.
Why does Boehner act this way? PRIMARY! He knows that the bill of goods they have been selling "conservatives" has been taken to heart and they do not want him to back down. He, along with Fox News, is now being labeled Liberal. Glenn Beck, et al, are driving that bus now (Beck is openly hoping for Civil War). The GOP is no longer anything relating to governing and everything relating to crazy.
And if the GOP thinks that the Tea Party is going to allow it to spend if it ever gets into power again...Forget. It. The GOP will reap what it has sown. It created this phony baloney Government Sucks and DEFICIT, DEFICIT! And those who vote GOP now will not in the future as, to the TP crazies, the GOP is too liberal.
Funny how that works.
MsJ- It is a good point, but don't the Kochs just view this as an exercise in redirecting the stampede of cattle towards a target more to their liking? They aren't against the power of radical bezerkers if all the damage they do is minimal towards their interests and by and large are devestating to their opponents.
Much of this is about big Oil elevates its eyebrow. Wall Street wants higher interest rates that would fall from GOP policy, but Big Oil thinks that penny wise and pound foolish- especially in light of the fact that a depressed global economy means worldwide consumers are not filling up their cars, and cranking up the heat from coal fired plants.
So -THIS- is the outside game?!? Staying in front of positions with high polling numbers and talking to GOP backers in order to push their buttons on issues they diverge with the GOP leadership on?
Basically, the Brothers Koch do not care in the least what the hoi polloi think or do as long as their business interests are unharmed and they continue to make money and continue to rape the environment without restriction. If the radical stampeders threaten to do either of those things, they will jerk the reins. They may be heinous neoFascists, but they aren't stupid.
Yes, but don't forget this is not 'reasonableness'. This is a 'reload' tactic to throw libruls off their game. Raising the debt ceiling benefits 'THEM' and will just give them MORE fuel down the line to whine about the debt. THEN they will start the meme of cutting SS and Medicare because, you know, THEY voted for raising the debt ceiling.
Exactly
Obama's got their back. It will be Obama who will start cutting down the safety nets -- as part of one of his cherished "balanced" solutions.
You can't trust the Kochs. What they say and what they do, do not match. Ask the people in Wisconsin what Scott Walker, the ultimate Kochite, said before he was elected in 2010 and what he did after became governor. Look at Michigan and what happened after the 2012 election on the right to work law. That was all Kochs bringing in the rewards of funding the campaigns.
Look at what happened to Trayvon Martin as a result of the Kochs ALEC model law on Stand Your Ground. Look at the whole body of ALEC's model laws and you will see a terrifying picture.
Trust the Kochs at your peril.
I knew the Oligarchy would start to balk as soon as we started getting closer. The Koch's have "organized and hi-jacked" the GOTP soooo far to the right, that even they can't bring them back...Tsk, tsk....Seems like their "plans" weren't thought out for the long term, huh David....It's that same short term thinking that has landed US with this mess called the tea-potty!
On the upside, maybe the Oligarchy has learned a lesson on short term thinking & manipulation of "other" people...
well lets see the Kockroaches dont like light and if these paid for teapublicans keep it up they will get the blame, which means the light be on the ranchers in the corner office.
This probably isn't going to matter. The teabaggers are only interested in ideological purity at this point, and to hell with what anyone else thinks or what effect it will have on the country. One of them ran for Senate here in PA last year on a platform of "I will never vote to raise the debt ceiling." That's what we're up against here, folks.
Fortunately, ideological purity never wins in a government that only gets the people's work done through compromise. Even the Koch brothers know this - either that or they're seeing a threat to their bottom lines. Yeah, the latter.
The t baggers are as bad as the nazi's. I am so fed up with their ignorant prejudice.I want to demand that the house of reps start respecting our President. What do they think other countries should respect President Obama when we cant get the nut job in the house to respect him. I am fed up. What the hell is wrong with them? Voting no on job bills the last four years, the debt ceiling is why we havent recovered if they do this again we are screwed.
I was wondering if there are ethical conduct laws that would prohibit the republicans from holding debt ceiling hostage and purposely hurting the american economy and people.The republicans also are paying an outside law firm to fight against marriage equality if that is from tax dollars it is wrong as a voter I think that money could be spent better helping people. We need to get some laws passed to fight the t party, nra, and extreme groups from buying the house or congress as they have.
Well, there is their Oath of Office to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and there is that clause in the 14th Amendment that prohibits bringing into question the public debt. So they will in fact be guilty of treason if they continue.
As I said in a post yesterday, we need to put more emphasis on how a default would affect investors, both large and small. It is the rich and super rich that will lose the most because they have the most to lose.
A default will also hurt small investors, anyone with government bonds.
I do not mean to imply that a default will not hurt us little people on SS, but we do not have the leverage that the Kock brothers do. What they need to do is threaten to withhold campaign money to anyone who votes not to raise the debt ceiling or even threatens not to.
Thats a great idea.
Go further their state will be the first cut off!
The republicans got the house through redistricting and gerrymandering. We got the popular vote. Lets turn the tables and do the same thing. I feel the people should be able to take back our government from the nuts who follow the koch brothers crumb trail. They are not intelligent enough to wake up and see they are being manipulated I wish they would all secede.
Lets not forget, who the silent co chair of AFP Is, even since Armey left, is Steve Forbes. Who does not bill his speaking time to conservative causes, but will take $5200 from the Boy Scouts for a 40 minute lecture (that they probably didnt understand)
Oh, please. It's got nothing to do with "messaging." Dammit,
the Koch BrothersAmericans forPlutocracy the ProsperousProsperity didn't spend a gazillion dollars buying a house of Congress only to stand by and watch it do stuff that hurts rich people.I think the Koch Brothers need to be even more explicit to the congressional Repubs: "If you extend the debt ceiling, when Primary Season AND Election Season rolls around, WE'VE GOT YOUR BACK."
It's not that I want Congressional Repubs to stop feeling any heat. quite the opposite. The dimwits who think the Tea Party is a real grassroots not-at-all-ginned-up-phony-Astroturf movement are trying to wrest control of the GOP away from people like the Kochs. A moment like this could really show what kind of influence - if any at all - they have in the face of Koch Bros.' billions.
And if it somehow proves that the base of the GOP really cares more about ideological purity than what makes the billionaire backers of the party happy, and we see the Koch squad get creamed in primaries, it'll be interesting to see if the Kochs then lend their support to people who THEY KNOW will lead the country off a cliff if it means wresting power away from Dems. Or if they'll try to shift their energies into convincing Dems that their abusive policies really fit in with Democratic agenda (if enough palms get greased). OR if they'll decide to just continue to make billions and develop some sort of "John-Galt-as-Bond-Villain" complex where they can rule as a fiefdom and make economic decisions that f*** the world even harder than their political decisions do.
The Koch Bros. are more concerned about their money than their ideology. If crashing the economy did not hurt them financially, they would be all in favor of the hostage taking. Don't kid yourselves into thinking the Koch Bros. are trying to be reasonable.
The over riding fact in the debt ceiling debate is that many tea partyers don't seem to understand the difference between a government shutdown (which is vaguely amusing) and defaulting on the national debt ( which is a very expensive disaster).
The government shutdown won't be vaguely amusing to those of us who expect a monthly check in order to pay bills, and like, eat, and stuff.
At this point, I think the best strategy is to just let the GOP go to its room and 'cry it out'
There's a definite genie out of the bottle problem for the Koch brothers and, unfortunately, also for the rest of us.
The Koch Bros. viruses created a virus they're having problems containing. Way to go, dickweeds.
IF the Kochs have learned why plutocracies are doomed to fail,it would be a pleasant surprise.
But I'm cynical. Old dogs can learn new tricks, but wealthy, old dogs have an extra layer of insulation from reality. 'It's easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle...'
Plutocracies fail for the same reason theocracies fail - they are predicated on the idea that might makes right. No one in either group can possibly trust anyone else because they "know" that everybody has a price, anyone can be bought. Eventually, the machine will turn on its members.
Chuck and Davey have been bitten by the loonies they bought, but they have decades of experience at rationalizing. They'll be telling themselves, 'We learned our lesson. Next time we'll buy a better quality of loony."
...but then the parable does go on to say that all things are possible. Let us (pray) hope.
It's just tactical. They want to destroy the government, not themselves. Unfortunately for them, and us, destroying the government will destroy us all. They're too stupid to have learned that.
The Kochs forget the main theme of history--government and religion exist to keep the have-nots from killing the haves.
It's not a messaging problem, it's your agenda is what is the problem.
The emperor has no clothes.
The people have finally heard the truth. GOP props up corporate interests, profiteering and keeps trying to sell a message that they are the benevolent ones that maintain public interests.
No, we reject that claim. Look around, we subsidize banking, oil, coal, energy industries, but the laborers are villainized. The public that pays their prices are supposed to be given even more, when they give us no discounts.
Wonder why drill baby drill was sung? People led to believe they get a discount for more drilling? In Alaska, they each get a check, so of course Alaskans would like to drill in the National Forest, but they sell that oil overseas, not just to us.
It'll be interesting to watch the GOP hop to it and comply with whatever Americans for Prosperity says and keep hollering about takers and consumers (yes, lower incomes do buy stuff, so they need to remember THAT).
Who isn't for prosperity? We just wish more people could get prosperous and not get "left out".
The GOP are constantly moaning about the unworthy ones. It's not their message, it's what they want done. Privatize all public things, so they can cash in on public taxes. Some people think that is the way to go, but what is the result? Prosperity for whom? More cutting of jobs/wages/benefits. Taking money from those that buy, leaves them with fewer customers.
Those oil tankers move oil to refineries, but the oil company sells on the world market, not just here. They don't really give us a discount for using the resources. The prices go up for delivering everything, who pays? Not them.
The huge underground gas pipe explosion that killed 8 people, burning 38 homes down caused a lawsuit. Well, the company lost, so they pass it along to consumers. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Bruno-blast-ruling-goes-against-PG-amp-E-3991614.php
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_22232594/state-regulators-approve-pg-e-rate-increase-cover
And the GOP wonders why people are not voting for them, the champions of the corporations and wealthy who wish to demean SS recipients with the 47% (that is actually 99%) as takers. But some of the 99% vote for Rs, for some reason. We know why in many cases, but some of those are just out of habit and not actually seeing what they do, but listen to sound bytes.
Reminds me of a western group with a twist, Sons of the Profiteers, the Kochs, the Bushes.
What they really mean is don't let anything derail the march for enshrining the provincials in permanence, elevating the same societal ethos and demographic, that brought prohibition, above the common will of the country as a whole, in the 21st century.
Anyone who enabled the 2010 cycle rout by not turning out, can bask in the results for the next decade. That is if there is a country left after the red mappers institutionalize GOP rule by electoral college manipulation, allowing a permanent GOP minority to run the Koch envisioned plutocracy.
If you like gravel roads, because asphalt and concrete require too much civil expense to maintain, then thank all of the folks who hissy fitted and sat out 2010.
NO sympathy from moi.
By shrinking the size of overall economy, by reducing the funding of social programs, by allowing the infrastructure to deteriorate, by rendering laws unenforceable, and the government impotent the value of America can be reduced to the point where the Koch Birthers(sp) can purchase the country at Wal-Mart discount prices. It is sad news when capitalist work against the system to reduce the country to the middle ages. Whereas you may recall the system was reformed by the Black Death.
By the way Congress is getting a new offices http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnKqMQgV1vg about two minutes in see the new office decorations.
What we really must worry about is how Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dee are donating money to our Colleges with strings. They are telling any College that accepts their money who to hire and what agenda to teach. Their plan is to graduate enough conservatives that will support their agenda at the polls. By the time anyone figures this out it will be too late. Just think, if all the money the Koch bros., and the other Pacs have spent to influence Congress, was instead used for more meaningful problems, we all could have Free Health Care, or be paid a liveable wage.