18 is the only one that would have had any effect on the Newtown shootings. The rest, anyone intent on killing anyone anywhere, would simply ignore.

"This is a big fecking deal"

-Joe Biden

for all those 2nd amendment clowns who insist their guns are to prevent tyranny in america: No, what matters is, most of you doofus’ don’t even recognize tyranny even while it has eaten away half of your ass.Here we have a 2% of the American population that controls 97% of the wealth. Those are the guys that have foreclosed on American homes, robbed American taxpayers on a wall street theft that nearly destroyed the economy. The same people who are “baining” American businesses to shift American jobs overseas to foreign sweatshops; putting millions out of work. The same people who are trying to tear down unions, who are cutting hours back on jobs here and now to prevent paying benefits to employees, insisting on minimum wage while their employee training includes how to apply for welfare.The same people who call upon our military to send our children to war over nonexistent religious reasons so they can extract natural resources from those foreign countries, at the cost of life and limb of our brave children? All while doubling your cost at the gas pumps.In America, over the last 30 years; the job market has shrunk, the population grown, wages are stuck back in the 1980’s, while corporate profits skyrockets. The wealthy have hid their money offshore so it does not even stimulate the economy, except for what they pay for their propaganda machine to keep the rest of us either suspicious or hating each other for one silly reason or another- have 97% of us divided so they can continue to manipulate and conquer us.IF YOU CANNOT SEE THE TYRANNY FACING US ALL, and by extension you do not understand nor comprehend even who the enemy is, then how the @!$%# can you even claim to hold that goddamn gun for any reason except to make you feel like you have a bigger dick you actually are?

The NRA has become the "crazy" in the room. No wonder their approval rating has plummeted. They use to stand for a sane 2nd Amendment protection group. They are now just another far right lunitic arm of the Tea Party. There is s a clear difference between maintaining the 2nd Amendment and allowing military guns and ammunition used in Afganistan on the street. Hunters would never use these weapons, and, if the government ever truly wants to take over, they'll use much deadlier weapons (like drones) and the stockpiled arsonal of gunowners will be useless. It's the paranoid "I see dead people" pocket of America that want military weapons. The Mayan calendar people were wrong about the end of the world, and the NRA people are wrong about the government coming to take their guns. It has become an organization of greed and paranoia and not what it was originally organized to be - a sane, rational and responsible protector of gun rights and small innocent children. Being a member of the NRA is now the equivalent of being a member of the Tea Party.

What everyone seems to forget is that the Newtown shooter did not purchase any of the guns he used - he took his mother's guns after killing her. Please explain to me how background checks, training, etc would prevent something like this from happening again??? It won't! More gun control will not keep some crazy f^ck from getting their hands on guns/knives/bombs/etc if they really want to kill innocent people. Are they going to require mental health screening for any/everyone that lives in a house where a gun will be stored? How are you going to prove who does/doesn't live there and what their mental state is? Armed security in schools would make a difference - the POTUS has armed guards 24/7 so why shouldn't we provide that for our kids? "Gun Free" zones don't work - they just ensure that innocent people are unprotected so that crazy f^ck has no resistance.

I can remember being the same age as some of the Sandy Hook Children who survived the shooting at there school.

The most horrifying things I remember from my Childhood are the creatures I saw on the TV. They weren’t nearly as High, Def., as now and as I watch them now I chide myself for being afraid. Like wise I feel foolish because that initial fear caused be to become afraid of things I could not see as a result of the clumsy horror films of the my area.

I also remember the Mushroom Cloud Drills we had at least once a week while I was in school. To us kids it was a break from, the dread of being forced to go to the Black-Board to do a math problem which you had no clue to how to answer.

What I am saying is the threat was not real to us, it was a grown up thing that we had to endure.

But now all that has changed. The monsters are no longer in the TV, and at the movies. Now the nightmare is ever so real and its in their schools.

To children witnessing this massacre of other children, in their class rooms, the real thought of dying, is now a daily threat. Forced to go to school under the Law; its like our troops being deployed over and over again, in war zones, but worse.

Everyday now, in their Own minds, it’s as if they are forced to walk point in Afghanistan. Add to the real danger the fact that little minds are prone to exaggerate threats and we now have millions of little people primed to be the, P. T. S .D. generation.

Truly at this point in time America has been stripped of its pretense to innocence. In the mind of children, Santa comes but once a year, the unregistered lunatic with an automatic weapon, could show up during Home Room, or Social Studies.

Imagine the shear terror, of feeling that no one can protect you, not the Police, your Mother, your Father, your priest or God, for that matter, can keep you safe; from the same tragedy that took the lives of the children you are hearing about and who’s stories you are seeing on TV.

And the greedy and those in congress who represent the interest of the Gun Manufacturers, Racially, Motivated Hate Groups, and those who are well intentioned; but misinformed, are content to pursue a philosophy that could only be driven by demonic influences, in essence those motivators influenced by one or more of the, Seven Deadly Sins.

Who else but someone with a demonic philosophy and mindset could witness the destruction of so many [Young] lives and then stand resolute in support of the cause of their destruction.

But this is what happens when we allow hate to thrive, we live in a country with many people who’s mind set is to live by the Gun, and now we witness the community, sacrifice; we all make for allowing a stupid debate; over our life’s blood is being spilled in the one place are children can not exclude for their daily lives, and they are dying by the Gun, and a lack of a collective will that will stop this nonsense.

GUN INSURANCE..... duh. what the hell? no one is liable for all these wrongful deaths. if some insurance company were being sued, then you'd see a fast track on " GUN SAFETY" through uniform federal code. please repost this because i am not hearing a conversation about this

Presidents proposals:

Ban on assault weapons.... no brainer, the only idiots who want these have dreams of saving their loved ones from a fictional martian invasion

Limit on high round magazines..... if you cant hit it in 10 tries nature is trying to weed you out of the herd, go with it.

Universal background checks....in other words, billy bob at the local gun show cant just sell you a .357 out of the back of his truck anymore so you can go show thelma lou what happens when she cheats on you with your cousin

and finally, PROSECUTE the idiots who lie on their gun applications, heard a figure that 71,000 people failed the checks due to lies and 44 were prosecuted....now..... anyone who disagrees with any of these proposals.... please buy your piece of land in the mountains, build yourself a hut out of tree bark and dung and start writing your political manifesto while recruiting a mad squirrel militia. lLet the rest of the sane adults make some actual progress. that is all.... Goodnight and good luck

Conservative dogma never changes.

The arguments used by conservatives today in their fight against sensible federal gun regulations mirror those of conservatives over 150 years ago in their self-serving opposition to the abolishment of slavery.

Once again, conservative politicians and pundits indignantly thump their chests, encourage their followers to take the law into their own hands -- self-righteously believing that they must take an ideological dump on the fundamental tenets of our democracy in order to preserve them, and angrily chomp at the bit over another opportunity to be on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.

I'm wondering when we'll hear the complaints from the guys who want to possess small nuclear weapons!

Alva -- when was the last time you had to use your gun to protect your person or your property?

pessuj -- if the shooter's mother had a gun safe that would open to her only . . . well, maybe that fellow wouldn't have been able to get to her guns -- ??

John-2416054

If you haven't done so already you need to send the ideas to the VP. I believe the proposals you suggest have merit and should be looked at as another way around the problem that I see will exist with many who will flatly refuse and future Bans.

The NRA is like so-called "property rights" groups and the porn industry: they all beat their chests to talk about their rights, but none of them ever, ever want to talk about responsibilities. The thing that sets the NRA apart, though, is that they actively advocate policies that enable the massacre of our children. And their whole argument is based on a Constitutional right that was supposedly crafted to enable citizens to protect themselves from their government.

However, there's another reason why we have a Second Amendment: to support slavery.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftruth-out.org%2Fnews%2Fitem%2F13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery%3Ffb_action_ids%3D10151456740689881%26fb_action_types%3Dog.likes%26fb_source%3Dother_multiline%26action_object_map%3D%257B%252210151456740689881%2522%253A390307407725537%257D%26action_type_map%3D%257B%252210151456740689881%2522%253A%2522og.likes%2522%257D%26action_ref_map&h=HAQE5DIeR&s=1

I don't mean to keep rehashing my personal experiences, but it's what shapes my point of view. My friend's ex-husband legally purchased his gun and had the CCP. During the divorce he harassed her and threatened to shoot her. When we called the police they come, and he voluntary shows them the gun in the car and his CCP. The police tell her he legally owns the gun and they can't take it from him...unless he is convicted of a crime. So he has the right to own his gun and threaten her with it, but she doesn't have any rights until he shoots her.

What can anyone expect Obama to do when the NRA and the right wing won't even engage in talks on what to do about reducing gun violence? If they are shocked or appalled by his executive orders, they have only themselves to blame for not offering reasonable solutions to this problem.

What is sad about all this is that now Obama may be targeted by some crazy fanatic who still believes that the 'President's ultimate goal is to take away ALL guns rather than just regulate their use.

The right wing nutters are doing everything from foaming at the mouth to writing bad checks in protest to the legitimate, rational , and Constitutional actions taken by the President today with regard to gun violence. The dirty little secret that none of the pundits will say is that at the bottom of all of the opposition is same old racist propaganda that is as old as the plantation and nullification and that is fear of people of colour arming themselves for all the collective injustices done to them by white land owners and corporations. The NRA uses this and so do the Republicans in Congress they just are smarter at hiding the real reason they promote amongst redneck ignorant fear driven people.

Sandy Hook simply created a debate over the right to protect oneself vs. the right to feel better about sending your children to school. I love and voted for President Obama, but my stomach turned when he manipulatively said that now parents can feel better about sending their children to school. Playing on the public's irrational fears is very sneaky. OK, I know that's what politicians do, so I hold those who are falling for it responsible.

The gun issues in the US are manifold and multi-layered. Yes, banning all guns will solve the problem of mass murders and some domestic violence. That works for me. What does not work for me is the inability to defend myself from a criminal or a stalker.

John Messerly: I feel for your friend who was raped and killed. I, too was raped by a stranger who broke into my house. He had a knife, which made me no less vulnerable than if he had a gun. However, if I had a gun, I may have been able to fight back. I am glad that I survived, but the emotional damage is a lifetime sentence. Outlawing guns only makes this crime easier.

As for women who have angry, unstable exes, I think it has been proven that laws and restraining orders don't keep them alive, guns do.

There are lots of liberals who feel the way I do, but they are too complacent to speak out. Those who want a complete gun ban may get their wish in the coming years, but I suggest we all look at the consequences of living in a world where only governments have guns. The US has already been turned into a plutocracy, banning guns is the next step to a complete slave nation.

Banning guns is not the solution. I suggest a better start would be:

1. Stricter penalties for misuse of guns.
2. Harsher sentences for criminals who use guns.
3. Examination of the psychiatric drugs used by those teen boys who commit mass murders.
4. Gun safety promotions.
5. A society that gives everyone equal opportunity for upward mobility.
6. Better school security.

We all want a simple solution, but the hysteria over Sandy Hook is irrational. We would all love to live in a world where no one feels the need to have a gun, but that isn't the world we live in. That world will never exist. We can't predict when someone will snap, when a crazy person may blow up a building, when a truck may plow into our car, when a tornado will demolish our house, when our child will die in an accident of some kind while playing. There are no guarantees. Yes let us do our best to protect all life, but let us do in ways that are effective.

Apes with gunz don't kill people! Postal workers with gunz kill people!

Sign White House petition to repeal 2006 Postal Poison Pill act

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/urge-congress-repeal-postal-accountability-and-enhancement-act-2006/nykngcHv

All, I just went to the White House website and Andy W. went ahead and created a petition directing the President to urge Congress to repeal the 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act! This was the legislation that was created by ALEC, passed by Republican House, Republican Senate, signed by Republican George W. Bush, designed to bankrupt the USPS by requiring $5.5 billion per year in health benefit pre-funding. Please take the time to sign this petition. It needs 25,000 signatures by Feb. 4, 2013 in order to gain a response from the White House. Let's do it, let's save the USPS!! Thanks Andy W for creating, please pass it on. Here's the link: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/urge-congress-repeal-postal-accountability-and-enhancement-act-2006/nykngcHv

Please take a moment of your day to sign. If you don't have an account make one its painless!

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2013/01/sign-white-house-petition-repeal-2006-postal-poison-pill-act

Watched PBO's speech and signing of executive actions, and, while that's a great place

to start, it, by no means, can be the extent of efforts to curtail gun violence. The other

part of the equation must be the fullest and most severe penalties for those individuals

who do NOT commit suicide after they've finished murdering innocent people.

I'm talking about a meaningful, expedited, and mandatory death penalty within 30 or

60 days--only for the likes of mass murderers Jared Loughner (murderer at AZ Giffords

office) and James Holmes (Aurora movie theatre), et al--those individuals whose guilt

is 100% certain. There is no reason to have a trial, but, rather, a sentencing hearing

by a judge to pronounce sentence and date for execution. Trials should not be used for

defense attorneys to mitigate their clients' guilt, criminals off, or get them a reduced

sentence, and insanity defenses should not be considered in such cases. After all, Ted

Bundy and John Wayne Gacy, to name just a two, were people we would say had to be

"crazy" to do what they did, yet the courts saw fit to execute them. Insanity is

a reason...not an excuse. Unless we are willing to get serious about maximum

punishment for the most inhumane among us, these efforts to control what

guns/ammo clip will be allowed, and background checks will be hollow half-measures

and only marginally successful. If we are truly fed up, then we must be prepared to

execute the most savage and inhumane among us. Their lives do not hold the same

value as the lives of their innocent victims, and should be prosecuted accordingly.

Watched PBO’s speech and signing this morning, and, while that’s a fine place to start, it, by no means, can be the extent of our efforts to curtail gun violence. The other part of the equation is the punishment for people who commit mass murder but who don’t commit suicide after they’ve finished murdering innocent victims.

I’m talking about a mandatory, expedited federal death penalty issued by a judge within 30 or 60 days for those mass murderers who are 100% guilty—the likes of Jared Loughner (AZ rep Giffords murderer and James Holmes (Aurora movie theater murderer). Their guilt is absolute and without question, and they should be swiftly sentenced and executed. They are inhumane, NOT insane, and insanity defenses should not be considered or admissible or used to mitigate their murder spree.

Anybody can offer a reason for what they did, but there is no excuse for what they did, and, at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. After all, Ted Bundy and John
Wayne Gacy were considered by most sensible people as “crazy,” yet the courts
saw fit to execute them. The lives of inhumane mass murderers are not equivalent to the lives of their innocent victims, and should be treated as such. Unless the death penalty is revisited for the most horrible gun crimes, gun control efforts and legislation will only be marginal, half-measures.

I have heard conflicting reports on NY states gun restrictions as regards mental health mandatory reporting. One report stated that therapists Must report patients who make creditable threats of gun violence. Other reports state that therapists Must report any patient who the therapist thinks may be a possible threat. This is big difference. Preventive detention, forced drugging and black listing; is this what 'mental health' has come to mean - crime prevention and not healing?

Anyone who ends up on a mental health black list (someone who may well want nothing to do with weapons) can be sure to have any path to a meaningful job or career advancement squashed. Sure the police/health report is kept confidential and a therapist, worried about his or her career is sure to only make report with the greatest of caution.

Many of the people who have violently gone over the edge have had contact with the mental health system. It's time to ask if the system aggravates issues. That is, define in specifics 'help' and its effect of patients Pushing drugs and creation pseudo police reports? The Newtown killer is reported to have been processed by a therapist (if not as an official patient). Is this true and if so, is Psychiatry such a sacred cow that the public must nat know?

Two gun nuts are having a conversation...One shows him a brand new gun and tells him I got it for my wife! The other gun nut answers: Seems like a great deal!

Alternate answer: I didn't know they were in season!

NOTICE to all GUN NUTS!

Obama or Democrats or Liberals didn't start this action on gun legislation. The PEOPLE demaned it! And NOW there WILL BE ACTION! BECAUSE WE WANTED IT!

You nutz say your the VICTIMS HAH! Are you dead? I guess only from the neck up!

Jay Pursell
41 minutes ago ·

Do we really believe that limiting the availability of firearms to average American citizens will make America a safer place? Will increased background checks and punishing doctors for complying with their Doctor-Patient confidentiality will make a difference? We are made to believe that there are professional psychiatrists out there who are well aware of the dangers of such a person and let them walk out the door without consideration. These are highly educated, highly trained, professional mental psychiatrists. We are made to believe that it is because of mental disorders and psychotic thinking and a spontaneous, yet modern pattern of sick sadistic desires from a younger generation is something we all know, like it's something we all grew up with. The problem is no one questions the steps taken to solve these issues, and instead of thinking rationally and logically we accept any and every attempt to "solve the problem" and applaud it. No one questions when the media tells us that these mental illnesses are easily identified, like the Sandy Hook shooter showed signs of wanting to murder numerous children. Supposedly his mother, who was supposedly having him committed to a psych ward because of his dangerous behavior, decides to leave an arsenal of weapons and ammo out in the open so he could kill her along with all of those children? These are the same people that tell us legalizing marijuana is a bad thing because it's "dangerous," even though there hasn't been a single recorded death from marijuana use while tobacco and alcohol remain legal. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of Americans are on Prozac, the same medicine that the Sandy Hook shooter, Aurora shooter, and Shikh Temple shooter were supposedly taking. How many people die from overdose of prescription pills? It's an absolute pandemic yet we don't do a thing about it, let alone question the morality of these drugs. Marijuana would put the pharmaceutical industry out of business, an industry that makes a killing off of misdiagnosis and lenient prescription handouts. It's fine to get @!$%#ed up as long as they're making money off of it, but if you decide to do cocaine or heroin you end up in jail and are labeled the biggest scumbag piece of @!$%# to walk the earth. How many of these depressed patients have actual neurological problems or chemical imbalances, and how many are just upset over a breakup? And now these people who have been misdiagnosed and pumped full of medicine will be labeled as "threats to society," and the people who fight for their second amendment right will be labeled as nutjobs and radical conservative neo-natzi's. These background checks mean that any minor violation will be easily viewed by federal agencies, and they will be the ones who decide who is allowed to own a firearm and who will not. These are the same agencies that are currently stockpiling 1.4 BILLION rounds of ammunition and riot gear, 450,000 of those being .40 hollow points, OUTLAWED IN WAR. These are the same agencies who ADMITTEDLY use U.S. soldiers to take care of Opeum harvests in Afghanistan. These are the same agencies who ADMITTEDLY handed the explosives to the bombers of Oklahoma City. The same agencies that ADMITTEDLY invented and used anthrax on it’s own citizens. The same agencies that didn't have a shred of evidence on Bin Laden's involvement in the WTC attacks, the same agencies that trained and started the Mujahadin, the same agencies that declared a war on terror and invaded Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction which turned out never existed. Yet anyone who points this out is a conspiracy nut. It's not conspiracy theories, it's fact and questioning inexcusable lies. Republicans argue that Democrats are to blame, Democrats argue its Republicans, it doesn't matter. Obama and Clinton have both proven to be pro-war parties, and the drone strikes killing 250 innocent people for three terrorists is just as wreckless as any other party. Now we're going after the assault rifles this kid supposedly shot these children with, even though in the official report they clearly state the rifle was in the trunk of his car, and only two pistols were found by the body. There's live video feed from the school of another man being chased into and arrested in the woods next to the school, yet the police swear that no one else was apprehended. The eye-witnesses, parents of the students, claim they walked another man out, in handcuffs, and placed him in a cop car. This kid had two pistols on him and the autopsy report states all of the bullet wounds were from a bushmaster .223 assault rifle, the same rifle found in the kids TRUNK while he lays dead in the hallway. The same goes for both the Aurora movie theater and the Shikh Temple shootings. Eyewitnesses state there were multiple shooters involved in planned, coordinated assassinations. We ignore the only people that were present, ignore the inconsistencies in the bull@!$%# stories we hear on the news, and ignore the cold hard facts against the official story by discrediting the people who bring them to light or deem them insane. We are told that these events are so simple and straightforward, so why are there so many inconsistencies, discrepencies, and obvious lies involved in each and every one of them? We are literally on the path to handing over our god-given rights and freedoms. Now these federal agencies are allowed to detain citizens they deem to be a danger to society, or “terrorists,” without a hearing, without a phone call. Preventative Detainment. They are LEGALLY ALLOWED to arrest someone and lock them up for the rest of their lives without any notification or communication because a select panel of dip@!$%#s decides to. Do some research on how many terrorists have been apprehended and found guilty in the past ten years, and then ask why the @!$%# we would ever need such a policy? It boggles my mind how so many people are so concerned and horrified at what happened at Sandy Hook that they will hand over their social rights and responsibilities as human beings to the government to solve, yet if they did only 5 minutes of research on any one of these events it would be clear were going the wrong way. If you care about those children, if you care about this country, your family, yourself, get your head out of your ass, wake the @!$%# up and stand up for them. Stop acting like this will never affect your life or that you are not involved. Take responsiblity and hone the right we still have left, freedom of speech, and use it for something meaningful for once