Cruz is telling the sort of lies that those on the right (e.g., Sh!tter) want to hear, so he will be popular on the right. And since the MSM is infested with corporate whores and moral cowards, they will almost certainly let him get away with it. Benen continues to mistake theory with practice when he naively says "Cruz can't have it both ways." Cruz can have it both ways because there is little or no chance that the MSM will call Cruz on his hogwash.

Cruz is an idiot. He will be a FOX favorite. Another Nut Job. Congrats Mr. Cruz... please continue to make a fool of yourself.

I am so sick of them all . Will someone please send him and Wayne Lapierre the crime scene photos of Newtown and then have them explain why we don't need gun control in this country . If they can leave their humanity behind after that we will know they worship money above all else.

As a matter of fact they should be on the front page of the NYT

This is what your AR15s are designed to do .

They would all STFU and AR15's would be banned in 2 minutes

I see you're the bodies of the children for a soap box again. Tell me you can totally eliminate guns and we can talk. Or tell me you can perfectly predict who will and won't go crazy. Until then, everyone should have the option the President does with schools protected by someone with gun.

That's the reality, anything else is a fantasy for fools.

Effn tired

An ar-15 is designed to send a lead projectile speeding through the air at great velocity. That is all.

Is it just me, or do our lovely trolls seem more craven and less sharp today? Seriously, these folks are going for the gold medal in inaneness, if that is even a word...

Lebowsky...,

Well, for one thing, they know they can get away with damn near anything they want to do, and the powers that be will look the other way.

Right you are so great with a gun you can whip out a handgun in a crowd of people and with 1 shot kill the bad guy. Yet in the next breath you claim you are such rotten shots you have to have 100 round drums to kill the bad guy, so which is it or are you gun nuts a bunch of bed wetters who talk big and hide under your bed because their are scary people in the world and you are cowards for all your big talk. Oh you don't have to answer we already know what you are, its just your delusions that stops you from seeing yourselves for who you are.

Lebowsky - don't you know that lead projectiles speeding through the air at great velocity don't kill people? People kill people, so it doesn't make any difference whether they have an AR-15 or not. /sarc/

The word you were thinking of is inanity. But these trolls wouldn't know the difference, so inaneness is probably even more appropriate.

he's trying to mislead the public with smoke-screen arguments that don't make any sense.

Standard Republican tactics.

Lebowski dude . What a pathetic collection , devoid of humanity .

Talk is brave from the basement . Defending insanity

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html

Nobody is defending the insanity of shooting little kids, we're attacking your fantasy that gun control will prevent other occurrences. And, we're opposing more gun control to defend ourselves from people like you.

There's a much easier way to do this.

The left needs to borrow a page from the right. Conservatives try to get around the constitutionality of abortion by putting up impediments to getting one that are so onerous that, for all practical purposes, the practice has become illegal.

OK. Let's do that with guns. In blue states, we'll have special requirements for locating gun shops (50 miles from any school?) and burdensome "education requirements" and fees for gun shop owners. Anybody wanting to purchase a gun not only has to wait, but they have to view the coroner's photos of the children killed in the Sandy Hook massacre. (We might also require some kind of "medical" examination of prospective gun purchasers, if you know what I mean.)

The Second Amendment will still be intact. Gun ownership will still be legal. They'll just be a little (wink, wink) harder to buy.

And when the right screams about how this is "violating the Second Amendment," we'll just note their silence on the availability of abortion.

MPGuy Perfect . An ultrasound for their minds . yes indeed let them see what their "precious" AR15's do to a babies flesh

And, we're opposing more gun control to defend ourselves from people like you.

Airball, to defend yourself from "people like us," you don't need bigger or more guns. Heck, you don't need a gun at all.

You do, however, require a much bigger brain paired with dramatically increased cognitive ability.

Right shooter except you ignore that the government already limits the number of rounds you can use in your gun, they limit the size of the guns you can use and they even regulate the areas you can use high power weapons in, read your hunting manuals.

Shooter; How many hand grenades you got ? Rocket launchers, Mortors ?

You 'merikans seem to survive without those .

Duck ...here come the black helicopters .

Require background checks for ALL gun sales, and back it up with both large fines and jail time for failing to comply.

We'll see how "voluntary" those background checks are when the penalty for selling someone a gun without getting one is a $100,000 fine and ten years in jail.

If you think that's too harsh, just consider the number of folks who are spending decades in jail in places like Texas for having an amount of marijuana that would barely cover your fingernail.

??? Did you expect the lady was going to advertise having a gun at all? You're magical thinking. Stop it.

A crack addict will be in her house every time she left and sometimes when she is there. Are you truly naive or just dense, Shooter?

Magical Thinking is what people with a brain call a "Hypothetical Situation, something you Shooter should be accustomed to. Because a very large part of the entire conservative argument revolving around Gun Control. Is in fact based on hypotheticals, or Magical thinking as you put it. So if anyone really needs to stop, it's you guys.

Well magical, killing a couple crack addicts will certainly stop that.

Calvin, gun advocates aren't relying on hypotheticals, they are relying on history. Obama's restricting of civil rights is not a hypothetical. You may think that's a good thing, or that nothing else will be restricted, but the adage stands... hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Those on the right typically have a grossly self-serving concept of "civil rights".

So shooter then brings the false we can stop it by BS that the right have been using for everything, guess what shooter, shooting a few crack addicts won't stop theft anymore then putting them in prison will stop them. How do we know this, rather simple we have 50 years of lock em up and throw away the key prison mentality yet crimes still happen. Why is that shooter again you are living proof of what people believe, It will never happen to me because I am exceptional.

whom...,

I call it a sever case of "My A*s is Golden" syndrome.

You mean Presidential material for the Republicans.

And he's not "white" (though he and most of the Cuban gusanos who came here would argue that), so he's a "real jewel" for the GOP to prove they really aren't the southern white supremacist scum they are.

Or the illegal could just go back to Mexico and have Holder ship him an AR-15 directly.

What you're missing is that the vote is secret, and so is the transaction.

Still trying to pin lax gun laws in GOP controlled Arizona and a bungled investigation started by W's boys on the AG who shut it down, eh Shooter?

To use one of your stock phrases, 'Talk about your lying sacks'...

And you would wrong again. If you were right Holder wouldn't be pleading to have the reports disappeared.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/fast-and-furious-lawsuit-_n_1969674.html

Shooter,

Sharpen those intellectual integrity skills and research 'Operation Wide Receiver', paying attention to the methods used and dates it ran. Then note the operational managers, and compare them to 'Fast and Furious'.

The basic problem is that under Arizona and US law, almost any private sale within the US between US citizens is legal without a background check or any form of registration. This makes tracing and combating gun running very difficult, yet we expect the ATF to produce results after being hobbled.

Oh please, the ATF told licensed gun dealers to go ahead and sell to cartel agents, with absolutely no tracing involved. Wide receiver got shut down before Obama started up Fast and Furious. Like I said, if Holder were clean he wouldn't be trying to get his records disappeared.

In other words you can't be believed.

Shooter,

"Fast and Furious" used the same methods and local leadership as "Wide Receiver". Review of the history of both programs show that AG Holder did not direct either to be implemented.

The court case you reference has more to do with preventing additional abuse of subpoena power by GOP House Chairmen than it had to do with the underlying operations.

Of course, you know all of the above, but continue to falsely accuse AG Holder of personally shipping guns to Mexico (#8.1). Again, talk about your lying sacks...

When is a loophole not a loophole? When acknowledging that it is a loophole interferes with right-wing Ideological Soundness.

Under current law I can walk into a gun shop in Arizona and, after passing my background check, buy more fire power than was present at the Battle of Lexington and Concord. I can then take my cart full of semi-automatic weapons and ammo out the door and auction the lot to anyone I wish in the parking lot for whatever markup I can get.

Since drug cartels have a lot cash, who do you think will win the auction?

That is not a loophole?

Even if a background check must be conducted at a gun show when the seller is a licensed dealer, not all the sellers at the two gun shows I attended (one in Missoula, another in Kalispell) were licensed dealers. I saw transactions myself where the buyer produced a handful of bills and walked away with a gun, mostly assault-type weapons. That would be the gun show loophole.

I'm guessing this is possible because private citizens are currently allowed to sell their weapons themselves. Making this illegal would close that loophole. It's the same as individuals not being allowed to sell software that they've purchased. And it doesn't need to be that guns can never be re-sold, either, as long as the sale goes through a dealer (for a small fee); that dealer would do the check.

Isn't a small fee worth the peace of mind for not having criminals and wackos so easily acquiring deadly weapons?

It should be clear by now that the Gun Cult actually has no problems with criminals and wackos easily acquiring deadly weapons as long as those in the Gun Cult can have as many weapons as they want. It's a severe case of "My A*s is Golden" syndrome.

JL,

It would be fairly simple to require all licensed gun dealers with annual sales above a certain threshold to provide background check service for private sales, and to require private sellers and buyers use the service or face a substantial fine.

I doubt many licensed full-time gun dealers would object to collecting a $20 fee for a few minutes work that would keep guns out of the hands of felons and the mentally infirm.

Again gun shows are working with 2 laws one for dealers and one for private sellers. There is NO LOOPHOLE. If you want to change current laws regarding the private transfer of firearms, OK just quit saying things that are untrue just to get uninformed people upset.

Look, Inspector. You're the one who's playing with semantics. Clearly, we all understand what is meant by the gun show loophole. It needs to close. No need to keep beating this dead horse.

Inspector,

For the provision of any other good or service, the allowance of immediate private and anonymous resale of registered goods is considered a loophole. Guns and their sellers do not operate in a different moral plane from everything else.

(Gah! To appease the grammar Nazi's, including my own internal one, 9.9 should say, "...operate on a different moral plane..." or "... in a different moral universe...")

Well said.

Every firearm leaves the factory with a serial number, and every manufacturer has a written record on the initial destination of that firearm.

Later, this breaks down- because of bureaucracy, mis and malfeasance, and criminal intent. If the ATF had even half the resources of Homeland -'take your shoes off!'- Security, the USA would be a safer "homeland".

RON BEYERS, Good post, After reading into the system in general, Yes, I do own, But I look at the Tiahrt Amendment and some of the provision's, And I really wonder What the heck, How does 30k firearm's come up missing? Why restrict ATF from Trace Data? If Gun Shop's have Violation's from the ATF, Why allow them to either operate, or Transfer License? Ron, One question I have, If you get a chance, Ask your buddy this, If Licensed Dealer's are not required to do Annual Physical Inventory Inspection's, Just how easy would it be to Sell a large amount out the "backdoor" if there is no Inventory Inspection? Just how would ATF know exactly What was or How many Firearm's went out if these form's where Falsified?

I am not saying the system doesn't need to be tightened. There have been some really bad amendments to laws concerning licensed dealers. I am saying that the term gunshow loophole isn't so much a loophole as it is a reflection of unlicensed commercial sellers taking advantage of a very weak ATF. I read the articles Steve referenced. The one where investigators went to gunshows and purchased firearms from unlicensed dealers or people cheated on background checks was proof positive not of a loophole, but of wide spread violation of the existing laws.

I can agree to what you say, Ron as to the Bad Amendment's, I can understand Why and How Bad Dealer's can get away with Putting Firearm's in the Hand's of bad people. Once there out the door, It's to late. To me the "loopholes that are in the Amendment's protect Bad Dealer's and the Industry, Just an Idea in regards to Private sale's, Background Check, and a Wait Period, My post #14, and Applying aspect's of the TIAHRT Amendment, Scream's as to just what is Wrong. Thank's

Hey Sarge.....Bio Recognition needs to looked at for guns....i.e the gun will only fire for people the gun is registered to....

BTW...Good call on the Ravens....

TAP

And gun sellers who don't bother to register for a license don't have to do background checks at gun shows. For the Inspector's edification, that is what is meant by the "loophole," a situation where a person can sell a gun without doing a background check. It is an easy way for someone who should never be allowed to even look at a gun to own one. And Alva's protestations that this doesn't ever happen (see below) are just another reason to ignore her.

As another Texican, I feel your pain, and I have gotten out. Ann and Molly were the last good things to happen in Texas, and it will be a long time before they are repeated.

Technically if you use a strict definition of the word "loophole" it isn't really a loophole, but for all intents and purposes, that's what it is. If there is no difference in result, then it might as well be called a loophole. To fixate on strict definitions is the same as trying to maintain the status quo. It allows people who otherwise would not be allowed to own weapons to obtain them.

Actually, they're now Dixiecans, not "crats"

Right another I saw it with my own 2 eyes posts so if 1 does it then they all must posts. Here is another example of I saw it with my own 2 eyes so it must work like this everywhere, I saw a guy walk into the local SS office, he looked mentally disturbed to me so he must be applying for a mental disability, 1/2 an hour later the guy walked out with a handful of money so he must have got his disability in the 1/2 hour he was in the office, but I saw it with my own 2 eyes so therefore all anyone has to do is claim mental problems and SS gives them free cash money.

Whom, I didn't say it never happened. I said that the state that it never does happen is false.

Not only does this place conduct background checks on every single sale, they also disable every single gun on the premise. They have to for insurance reasons.

http://thenationsgunshow.com

I'm sure we could find some hillbillies holding a gun show out of a moose lodge somewhere where they don't conduct 100% of the sales with background checks. But by and large, they're done.

I would further note that since the Brady bill was passed in 1993, only 1.8% of gun sales were prohibited from being completed due to background checks. In other words, 98.2% of all gun sales are by law-abiding citizens.

Alva, No one ever said that background checks never happen. What has been said is that private sellers at gun shows who, at least in Texas, seem to have an inexhaustible supply of weapons, don't do background checks. If you doubt that most nondealer sales lack background checks, come to the southern border and visit the weekly gun shows.