Associated Press
The politics surrounding Sen. Marco Rubio's (R-Fla.) immigration pitch to Rush Limbaugh seemed straightforward enough, at least as of 24 hours ago. The far-right senator is part of a bipartisan group of lawmakers that supports comprehensive reform, while the far-right radio host is ready to use his power to "stop this" from advancing. Rubio presumably wanted to offer a persuasive defense of his own bill.
But during today's on-air interview, both Republicans staked out interesting positions that were not altogether expected. Limbaugh, for example, wanted to kill the bipartisan reform plan yesterday, but today lauded Rubio's efforts as "admirable and noteworthy," and "recognizing reality." And while Rubio was all smiles yesterday, today the GOP lawmaker seemed to be hinting at an exit strategy from the reform initiative he's helped launch.
In an interview with Rush Limbaugh aired Tuesday, Sen. Marco Rubio said he wouldn't support a bill granting a pathway to citizenship to undocumented immigrants unless it first addressed border security. [...]
"To the point of them not wanting to do the security, look, all I can tell you is that that's a big issue for me," Rubio responded. "That's why I'm involved in this process. I have no reason to believe it won't happen. But if it doesn't, I'll come back to you and say look, it didn't happen. We tried, they put that in the principles, but then they drafted a bill and I couldn't support it."
So, literally one day after Rubio threw his support to a bipartisan, comprehensive reform package, he told a right-wing radio show he's prepared to walk away unless he gets what he wants. That doesn't exactly speak highly of Rubio's commitment to following through on a policy he claims to take seriously.
For that matter, whether Rubio understands this or not, President Obama has already delivered the "border security" measures the senator says he's looking for. If, however, Rubio means giving folks like Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (R) veto power over federal reform efforts, that's not going to happen, and Rubio might as well take his ball and go home now.
Specifically, what the senator claims to want is some sort of "trigger."
In particular, he said including enforcement measures as a "trigger" for undocumented immigrants to seek permanent residency was key.
"Unless there's real enforcement triggers we are not going to have a bill that moves on the opportunity to apply for a green card," Rubio said. He added: "I'm not going to be part of a bidding war to see who can put the most lenient path forward" if Obama demands a smoother path to citizenship.
I don't know what those "triggers" would look like, exactly, and I'm not sure Rubio knows, either.
But as the legislative phase begins in earnest, it's a wrinkle worth watching. Indeed, it's easy to imagine Rubio playing a longer game: he'll get credit from the American mainstream for working on a bipartisan compromise, then he'll get credit from the right for abandoning his own plan, blaming Obama and Democrats for not taking border security seriously enough.
I hope that's not what the senator has in mind, but the disparate postures between yesterday and today raise questions about his intentions.
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Saying that Marco Rubio has a brain and is capable of intelligent discourse is "a fact not in evidence."
Just Where is Sununu on this subject ? Haven't heard his big-mouth in awhile !
Come on guys...border security has traditionally been the means to block immigration reform. It's always been..."No reform until our borders are secure"...which means no reform...which is how republicans have always blocked immigration reform.
Plus, I find it suspicious that filibuster reform was negated suggesting republicans would not abuse it and that compromises could be reached in the faith of bipartisanship and then suddenly we get "Bipartisan Immigration Reform" which is about the only thing which would not hurt either party and the senate could turn around and say "see...we can be bipartisan". I doubt we will see any more "bipartisanship" out of the senate and I bet we will see this 'reform' get watered down to be almost meaningless. I've really become cynical since dems caved on filibuster reform and McConnell public ridiculed them for being so stupid. Duh.
So strange how Rubio has no respect for the intelligence of Latinos and most of America. Obama spoke to this today when he pledged to submit his own plan if Congress does not act.
These guys are still new at this idea and are not yet through playing around with it. Eventually they will notice all the inflection points where they can drive their wedges. I am surprised they are not yacking about the AFL-CIO interests in this bill yet.
Sometimes they seem mostly like reflexive creatures of habit rather than people capable of making a dispassionate analysis of their situation and responding accordingly. Cue Rachel's incredulous refrain that they don't seem to be competent at what they are doing.
Just heard that on the radio John, Hannity said unions will kill this deal. He is also pushing the rubio exit strategy if the border is not "completely secure", and is predicting a nine month timeline.
I tried to listen to him today, but didn't get much past his silly reactions to the New Republic call out of FOX perfidy by the President. On and on and on with the same point... I lost patience and flipped over to some other lunatic.
Perhaps Obama will be fast enough to press this through before they develop it further. Personally, I don't think the GOP is seen as especially credible at this point, so the assault would have to come indirectly through some puppet group like the one RM called BullPucky on in her adorable way. Dang that was a cute segment close.
And what the hell does 'completely secure' mean, anyway? I've started thinking about "Kinda" (Doctor Who) in which the gloriously insane Hindle decides to keep the survey dome 'safe' by mining it with explosives. He can't be harmed once he's blown himself to bits, now can he? The right's attitude toward the supposed dangers of immigration is just as crazy, if less-obviously destructive.
And, isn't Rubio the son of immigrants? I've got immigrant ancestors going back to the 1630s, at a minimum, and there sure as hell weren't any immigration laws back then. So who does this just-off-the-boat nobody think he is that he gets to say who can and cannot come here? The nerve of some people. Just because he was the last one in, that doesn't mean he gets to close to the door behind him.
Exactly , and rubio / the gop can not be taken seriously on any sane legislation , they claim over and over again they support health care reform , or other legislation , then they turn around and try and destroy it every time , dems need to address the gop ON THAT LEVEL , till the msm stop giving them a pass on being professional poseurs for a living
The one thing this does that is a positive , when Rubio and the gop sink this immigration reform ship , it will be another anchor around their neck for 2014 , they really can not help themselves , their bigoted stupidity springs eternal
The fact that rubio is an anchor baby shows these people are sociopaths
what a way to try and run a nation? : /
Questions about his intentions? Ya think? Rubio, dreaming of the presidency, is between a rock and a hard place. If he's seen to be a driving force in immigration reform, he loses the hardcore GOP base. If he looks like an obstructionist (and trust me, the Dems won't let him get away with giving GOP governors control of the process) he loses the Latino vote. Like Romney before him, Rubio is trying to straddle that divide -- but it's the Grand Canyon. Even Larry Craig's stance isn't wide enough. Mittsy went down in flames and so will Marco.
I love the hot sweat soaked smell of Republican immigration disarray in the afternoon. It is the smell of victory.
The old secure the border routine, how cliche!
You can always count on Rubio to be the GOP's best recycler. This guy has got to be related to Bush somehow. The shared lack of imagination is almost eerie.
And still...
I have two concerns that I have yet to see anyone be they government official or talking head address.
1. Once the undocumented become the documented, when they go to their various workplaces in "low skilled" jobs in the fields and on construction sites, etc. are they going to be paid at least comparable wages to the rest of us or will their employers be allowed to continue to pay them far less and continue expanding the wealth gap and suppress overall wages as they do now? Is this going to be addressed or not? I have heard not a damn thing concerning it from anyone. I would like to hear what Cohen and Trumka have to say about this. Hopefully you can get them on the show soon.
2. I have heard continually (to say the least) that in order to be put on the path to being legal the undocumented must pay their back taxes and some sort of penalty in order to give the rest of us our pound of flesh for their crime. Fine I suppose but what about about the person or company that was employing them while they were here illegally? Where is the chorus demanding the employers of the undocumented pay back taxes and penalties? They are at least as guilty if a crime has been committed and should be punished with equal severity. These people they employed for years and years will become our future senior citizens and draw upon Social Security and Medicare. Where will the employer's contribution come from for all those years? To punish the poor and down trodden is the American way I know, but isn't it time for equal justice this once? Punish all who broke the law, rich and poor, employer and employee alike or punish no one. How about that being the new American way?
I suspect that- in Arizona at least- this so-called "trigger" involves the 2nd Amendment. With, perhaps an "open season" on coyotes, rattlers, and other "varmints."
But, hey; we're a civilized nation now, no need to bring in scalps to collect the bounty!
Rubio is a bully. He puts something forth and then runs for cover when he is 'challenged'. Then he sticks his head out and issues some insult towards the President. He sounds like a two year old. He stomps his feet. He is disrespectful towards the Presidency.
I have a deep rooted suspicion that a lot of this new found tolerance is due to the Corporations rallying around Obama a while back.
"Oh say can you see the republican fright
What so proudly they hailed as FOX kept screaming
Whose phony a..wipes and self proclaimed stars through the imaginary fight
O'er the profits we watched so flagrantly steaming(piles of...)
And the markets rising share made their lies burst on air
Giving proof through the night that our flag was still there..."
My apologies to you liberals. You right wingers though probably consider my transgression alright since you think "America The Beautiful" is the real Anthem.
I concur, the corps need to do business during this time. The corps own the T-Pubs and ALEC, but…
I really think this is something along lines of "we can do math". We have to keep pandering to immigrants. They saw that they can't do what they did and win without rigging elections. Rigging elections is being watched and the truth is, people are MORE motivated to vote when you try to take their vote away, or RIG IT. Who wants to be a part of that? I suspect most Americans would reject that, but there will be some that blindly follow the Faux propaganda.
But Faux hoists the flag with stars of corporatists, not necessarily Old Glory. The corps will tell them what to report (again).
http://s194492532.onlinehome.us/__oneclick_uploads/2010/01/corporate-states-of-america-flag.jpg
We need some balance here. I don't want to demonize corps (although many may deserve it), but I do not think we should bow down to them and leave regular folks hurting.
Maybe they will call off the war against working Americans and figure out we are their employees and their customers, too.
If the federal government enforced the law we wouldn't have to pass measures on the state level.Social benefits and a blind eye to paying income taxes gives other countries that "come hither", look. You wouldn't need to do all this twitchin and whining about the issue of immigration if you enforced the law.But you can't without being deemed a heartless, mean spirited xenophobe.
Ricky: It must suck knowing you are going to lose no matter how this shakes out, and having those feelings about yourself.
Could have told you Rubio was one big FRAUD
Something along the lines of unanimous agreement by all of the border-State governors that everything is unicorns and butterflies.
Stick with the democrats if your in the Hispanic community.They own you.You gotta vote for them.Don't dare get caught not doing so.The compassionate and tolerant will ruin and destroy your life if your in the public spotlight.If your just an average citizen, well, its kinda like a mother-in-law saying her stupid son-in-law has fathered the world's smartest baby.Your smart if your with them, an idiot racist if not.A "white Hispanic", like the guy who shot Travon Martin.
You left your countries of origin for a reason/reasons, go ahead, install that here how bout it.
Proof? Please, point out where the Democrats have ruined a Hispanic for voting for, or even supporting, the GOP. Otherwise, you're just a slander monkey, throwing verbal feces.
Rush Limbaugh? Really? Marco Rubio is truly a little putz.
I seem to recall hearing or reading that payment of back taxes would be a necessity before citizenship. I don't know how this would be possible for many of the folks who are just scraping by in lousy paying jobs. I haven't heard anyone question this point so maybe I just misread a crawl somewhere. It all runs together after a while, I must admit.
The Octopus Commission, Snake Eating Tail … not an improvement.
1) Border Security - Very similar to the wars Americans love to get into and have fought, except in this case they won’t be able to declare victory and can't go home.
The poison pill is obvious it's like the local NRA supporting Sheriff saying there are no guns that don't need to be out matched by better guns, no border will ever be enough of a border, and there is no security that will ever be good enough. The fence is on the wrong side of the border, the US is yielding territory.
:: Since this criteria cannot be satisfied, this plan and no other plan can go forward based in the "southern border states commission".
[Border Security will be needed long after 11 million are made whole, but the blame is on the laxity for which generations of Americans must share the consequences. We have been led by Congress for generations to purposefully allow huge immigration. There are, a whole number of economic policies that produced the habit, of large immigration. The history shows that this was the intention, now as we reach economic crisis, we have had nearly hysterical reaction lasting years, from the most ignorant of the masses, claiming that what took 100 years to achieve, can be resolved in an instant, when at the same time as time has all but escaped us. We cannot claim past years '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, and '13 as a starting point.]
2) Undocumented Immigrants in the U.S. - Senators could recommend civics lessons to Senators as well as US Citizens.
Poison Pill #2 When is a solution not a solution? So if we slow legal immigrants then we speed up illegal immigrants? "… after every legal immigrant receives their green card AND speaks English AND registers AND pays penalties AND pays back taxes AND undergoes background check; will an undocumented illegal immigrant be eligible… "
Senator Rubio: "In negotiations, he may have pushed the group to accept the stricter border enforcement policies in exchange for agreement on this point." Negotiations generally mean that you take something and you give something, but in clever man's case, you take something and you take something more.
So if 1) cannot be satisfied and 2) cannot be satisfied the Senators proposal in reality says No twice.
3) Dreamers and Agricultural Workers - Then there is the proof needed that "no American was available for the job". This easily countered by finding one, just one who will, thus this becomes a green card trap. Coming to the US is thought of as way of self-improvement so what makes you think they would remain agricultural workers for long? A true dream would be to work on automated robotic equipment to plant, cultivate and to harvest crops. Who's going to finance this education (farm corporations, I jest?), why would want to provide so many college graduates with no job, as is currently done (again I digress)? And why are business so dependent government munificence, laws regulations (while complaining so)? Military service for young people is too expensive (for lots of reasons, Eh?); why not just send young people to the farms and fields for agricultural service (never mind the Chinese)?
4) New Immigrants - It's not exactly the best idea to import the best and the brightest from the rest of the world. It deprives the rest of the world from the talent they need (then they may need tour of the US to learn its failures first hand).
It does not address the problem of 'not addressing' the 'talent crisis', for American citizens, who for undiscovered reasons don't succeed in education or employment to become technologists, scientists, engineers or mathematicians (STEM). No one knows why most educators are unaware of this STEM for non-Americans only phenomena, they have to fess up. (They are all English majors?)
Since these proposed changes are, in part designed to increase or speedup or reduce backlogs, by the reason implied in the statement 2) above, "… after every legal immigrant receives their green card will an undocumented immigrant be eligible… ", it means that no illegal immigrant can ever be more that a green card holding agriculture workers, waiting in line.
Then the EB-5 program i.e., "Different: President Obama pitched an idea called “Start-Up Visa.” Foreign entrepreneurs build new businesses in the U.S. with backing by American investors. If they flop, they pack up and head home. If the company succeeds, they’ll win a ticket to remain permanently." This essentially says foreign owned business first, Americans second, this says a lot, if can listen?
Senators who have led the charge to get government out of government and business WANT to measure the ebb and flow of the economy and have the POWER to cap visas. The same 'Senate' group that only uses new unemployment claims, does not want to measure unemployment, under employment and employments that makes no sense; so that we don’t know what might cause trouble for Senators running for office? It cannot be left unsaid that Senators really do want power, they really like power, but they have to acknowledge that fact AND with that power Senators want to control business, control the economy, control their campaign donors, control their lobbyist. (A historian might well see the comparison between Roman Senators who had their own spy networks and commanded their own armies.) (A Constitutionalist would have to trace the power of the Senate to the unique ability granted to make its own rules, written or unwritten and processes that would not see the light of day.)
5) Employment Verification - This system is implemented using the social security number. For the purposes of discussion, this is or is not a national identity system. It might well benefit to be upgraded for theft and fraud. However (just complaint really) if an employee works for more than one employer and W-2 withholdings overlap, then the worker might pay too much Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (not that bad). The employer discovering this; might not understand that their employee has a second job (needs one), might not like this fact and you can see that the employee might not want it known. Well know W-2 laws concerning workers classifications are much more damaging to the economy than we are led to believe. So at the very least employees must give permission and also should be notified when their employment information is being used. The twenty something year old human resources professional own the keys to your wealth and happiness.
The Senators claim to want criminal penalties, to sound tough, but lawyer see profit in civil proceedings.
The land rush proposal, does not exactly encourage 100% participation; think about using certain punishment to encourage confessions?
6) Same-Sex Families - Can we get the Senate out of our families? Apparently not, it is reasonable assumption to consider a couple, but impossible to assume away a marriage of convenience.
As you should be able to see by fully implementing this proposal, nothing much would change. If it passed it would fail to work, and because the President endorses it; it be can become cover for the dysfunctional Senate to protect the dysfunctional Senate under the guise of "well we couldn't get the votes' from the dysfunctional Senate. And while we are at it the irate irrational public might not forget that it was passed in the first place.
I can only suggest that the multiple of players get together, media and advocates and write a more coherent bill, where the facets of immigration are clarified and the relationship to the larger economic concern are treated in complementary fashion.
1 - Immigration …
2 - Jobs …
3 - Education …
4 - English …
5 - Agriculture …
6 - Ventures …
7 - Families …
8 - Fortitude …
The Octopus is a very, very clever animal, and quite the noteworthy escape artist!
Fix the Filibuster, or ship it to a foreign country.
This should be negotiated, marked up and voted in 100-0 and 435-0 , it is time to fix this , call it the Obama-Bush-Rubio-Durbin bill or something and be done with it
Whatever Windbag says must be wrong. Men are from Mars, Women from Venus. That leaves 6 other planets where he is from.
Nah. Rush is from Uranus. (Nothing personal.)
I like to think it was I who told Rush to try Ritalin...
I have a feeling LImbaugh isn't going to change his tune. Rubio is the Rights last hope to garner some support if he can't do it who is? But he's Florida and may do something for the other states around there but really I think its just going to help his chances in Fla to get reelected nothing more. Limbaugh and the other talking heads will just blame it on Obama and his campaign org just turned proactive action for it. Its an easy out but its all they got.