At the beginning of today's Senate hearing on gun violence, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) proudly proclaimed, "There are too many video games that celebrate the mass killing of people."
On MSNBC this morning, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) was thinking along the same lines (thanks to reader F.B. for the tip).
For those who can't watch clips online, Chuck Todd asked the senator, "Can you envision a way of supporting the universal background checks bill?" Alexander replied, "Chuck, I'm going to wait and see on all of these bills. You know, I think video games is [sic] a bigger problem than guns, because video games affect people. But the First Amendment limits what we can do about video games and the Second Amendment to the Constitution limits what we can do about guns."
As Jed Lewison responded, "To repeat, those words came from the lips of a United States Senator. A Republican United States Senator, to be precise. Supposedly, he's one of the brightest bulbs in the Senate Republican conference."
That said, so long as the "blame video games" argument continues to percolate, it's probably worth taking a moment to set the record straight -- again.
As we discussed several weeks ago, even if we put aside the irony of the underlying point -- blaming simulated, pixelated guns is fine; blaming actual guns is not -- this isn't new. Plenty of officials, including folks like Joe Lieberman, have been arguing for years that violent games desensitizes young people to violence and contributes to a larger corrosive effect on the culture.
There's just very little evidence to support the claims. Hunches and cultural criticisms notwithstanding, social science research does not bolster the contention that gaming and gun violence are connected. (Adam Lanza was reportedly obsessed with "Dance Dance Revolution" -- which is a game, as the name suggests, about moving feet, not shooting weapons.)
For that matter, the United States is not the only country with young people who play a lot of video games, but it is the only country with high rates of gun violence.
Gaming is a huge cultural phenomenon in countries like South Korea, England, Japan, and Canada -- and they're all playing many of the same games Americans enjoy -- and yet, none of these countries comes close to the U.S. when it comes to deadly shootings.
And why not? Sociologists can speak to the differences in more detail, but I suspect it has something to do with access to firearms. It may seem tautological, but let's state it for the record anyway: societies with fewer guns have less gun violence, whether they're playing "Halo" or not.
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Video games do hurt people . . . but you have to throw them pretty hard.
These repTard Goofballs are just parroting amongst and with themselves Yet-Again , detracting the focus of the REAL Problems ! Typical of them Always to avoid and evade the issues at hand , sick bunch of Punks/Children !
Yeah, guns don't kill people, video games kill people.
Let's face reality: this congress is never going to pass effective, helpful gun legislation. Never.
Since the Sandyhook massacre, these weapons have been flying off the shelves out of fear of our Communist, Kenyan president, whose sole aim is to de-gun America so he can be the first Muslim dictator in our history.
Be afraid. Be very afraid. There is a black guy in the white house, and he is after YOU!
LMFAO - Yeah , isn't it Amazing how they distort the reality and truth and Facts of the Real World for their own advantages and further - some people actually follow and believe these Goofballs ! ?
It's not nice to laugh, but alas I am laughing. That was funny dammskippy!
As the Meme goes: If video games affects people, most Facebook users would be farmers (or developers) by now.
funny how they call Obama President when your republician governors aew trying to break unions. take away workers rights, take away voters rights and women rigts. Fix elections because they cannot win unless the prevent other American citizens from voting
And you need good aim or whoever you're throwing them at can duck.
What about dreams? Waaay worse than video games and gunz!
Not only are they not protected by some damn amendment, but you can do some craaazy sh!t, and not suffer any consequences! (Unless you go see Doctor Freud, and confess.)
Yes! And as the Constitution says NOTHING about dreams, instituting an immediate force of dream police is obviously the best thing we can do to stop this violence =)
...I suddenly have an overwhelming desire to re-watch Inception.
The dream police, they live inside of my head.....
Is there one confirmed case of a violent video game being used to kill someone? How would that be done? Blunt force to head? Maybe we should use Grassley or Alexander to provide a demo on youtube where they act the role of the victim. Then after the blunt force attack, they could receive a demo of being a victim of an assault weapon.
"Consider a Congressman, then consider an idiot. Ah, but I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain, 1872
plus ca change...
Fecking Lamar Alexander... He and Corker are in the running to be the biggest embarassments to TN, and there's only competition because we have reps like Black and Desjarlais.
You gotta love Twain...
As other commentators have noted, Europe gets the same violent video games, but doesn't see the corresponding level of slaughter that we see in our country. Therefore, either video games don't have the same effect on the rest of the world as they do on Americans, or they don't have the firepower to commit the massacres we do here.
It's not jut that they think we're stupid it's that they're stupid.
I'm an avid video game player and an attorney. I've seen hundreds of thousands of dead people in video games and on television movies etc. I attended an autopsy revolving around a case my office was involved in and I'll tell you, no amount of video games or movies or TV desensitized me to seeing an actual dead body on a slab being cut into. I know it's anecdotal and that is pretty much the worst kind of evidence for anything, all I know is that I was absolutely not desensitized. I would imagine our friends in the military could agree that there is a difference between shooting someone on CoD Black Ops and shooting a real person in Iraq/Afghanistan.
tiger, without going what you went through, I totally agree. Seeing that stuff on a game, then going to a school, firing a .223 and blowing off half of a kids face, then shooting someone else, maybe watch them struggle to breath, crying for water because they are dying of thirst, in shock, minds going through their last moments of life, that is the real thing and totally different from a game.
If that were not enough, other countries as we know, spend time playing games but have less violence. I think a mentally sick person, who has withdrawn from society, may immerse in video games but it is that withdrawal from people, not playing video games that is part of the culprit.
How many violent movies have we seen but 99% of us arent out their killing people.
All of these fools that are detouring from the actual Real-World and casting the blame on video games and movies and whatever else ; Most All of these Wimps are draft-dodgers and have Never seen or participated in the real thing , No , they are the ones that have Avoided these wars and also created them as they slink to the side and Profit from them ! Their comments and "reasoning" is just plain Stupid and Ignorant ! All that they are doing AS USUAL is making Lame excuses for their own personal and financial benefits !
If that were the case then wouldn't 4th and 5th generation farmers be seeing a lot of mass murderers amongst them? After all if seeing blood and guts desensitizes people to violence, well, chopping the heads off chickens then cleaning them after they are done flopping around headless, then mom cooking a fried chicken dinner after a few hundred you would think farmers would have no problem with butchering people, according to our nit wit GOP finger pointers. Their whole argument holds 0 water in reality.
Except that the government already does tell them what they can and can not own, how do we know this rather simple in fact so simple that a republican understand, Wal Mart doesn't sell ICBM's.
Typical right wing nonsense.
You know, I think video games is [sic] a bigger problem than guns, because video games affect people
Guns sure don't . Only 1440 killed since Newtown . Didn't affect them a like a video game
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html
Click on a few of the little icons that represent children and another family destroyed
Grassley You piece of $hit . Sold your soul to the NRA May you burn in your Christian hell
Hey by GOP reasoning Farmers should be banned from farming animals as well, after all they say being around images of blood and guts causes murders then what about all the live stock farmers kill after all that is real blood and violence.
If the canard floated by the dear NRA apologist senators were true, Ozzie Osborne and some of his fellow Rock-n-Rollers would be on death row for causing all those suicides and violent actions taken by the young who listened so much to them!
But, alas, tis no real connection exists the Republican brand is attempting to peddle at this time!
Yes, people with guns kill others much easier than those armed with video games or raunchy rock-n-roll lyrics! You'd think the Republicans would figure this out! -Kevo
Come on these are the same people who believe women can shut down biology when it suites their needs, like in rape incest sex, after all women have to want to be pregnant to get pregnant in their warped minds.
hey, Kevo, those aren't canards floating there in the porcelain Congress.
So somebody plays "halo" then goes out and does something to make a person wear a "halo"
what did one angel say to the other angel when they met ?
"Halo"
Shouldn't the fourth amendment limit the use of wiretaps and drones?(as long as we're gonna go constitutional here)
If you're going to have a universal back round check you also need universal access that means will issue permits(to people legally permitted under current law) in the more gun restricted places(Exactly the same places having the most illegal gun use difficulties) The law abiding citizens of Chicago, Ny and DC are not suddenly going to turn to homicidal loons, but a few of them standing their ground against criminals may reduce the problems.
Alex, currently by law:
wiretaps - prohibited, yes
drones - prohibited only here in the US
you do not need "universal access," whatever that means. as you state it it is completely nonsensical and a fine example of circular logic. background checks for all purchases are a must.
standing your ground should only apply to your home if an intruder actually enters. it should not allow you to follow someone until they turn around and then shoot them because you feel threatened by the person you were stalking or to shoot someone because their GPS led them to the wrong driveway, even if they are brown.
appointing a director of the ATF, properly budgeting it and allowing them to build and maintain a database of registered owners of firearms would go a long way toward reducing the number of illegal guns.
the requirement to destroy background check data within 24 hours should also be eliminated. this would allow the tracking of persons buying large numbers of guns as a "straw purchase."
none of these measures will prevent all gun violence but will help reduce it. doing nothing "because it won't solve the entire problem" is foolish and will do much more harm. by the way, the government doesn't want to take all your guns they just want to know who has responsibility for them. just like cars.
resistance to reasonable measures designed to control guns will only lead to the demand for unreasonable controls and you really don't want that.
okay point by point...
phone companies were given amnesty for what then exactly
movement to use drones to enforce border just this week
universal access 50 state permits(ROUGHLY 30-40 STATES HAVE RECIPROCITY AND SIMILAR LAWS NOW) If you can get a permit in Tx or fl and carry in Dallas or Tampa you can carry in Chicago or Ny legally
your home is protected by the castle doctrine not stand your ground, stand your ground is anyplace you have a legal right to be. You have the right to meet force with force if you feel your life is in danger from Black white or a muppet whatever its not seek and destroy or cop by proxy but it is and should be stand your ground
ATF director...um ok both Bush and Obama picks have been held up for years but fine confirm somebody
The backround checks should be expanded to all sales but private sellers should have easy access to the nics system AND there should be 50 state permitting...see above(yes it is appropriate for New York to regulate a smaller weapon for carry than say Alaska where you might have to stand your ground against a grizzly bear)
Yep unreasonable measures like 7 round magazine limits thats every bit as reasonable as stop and frisk and regulating soft drink sizes...
Frankly, as a parent, I do have a problem with the level of violence in media that seems to be socially acceptable. Video games, TV shows, movies . . . and it's not "3 Stooges" level of cartoonishness, but visceral, lethal violence that seems to permeate our culture.
And I have no doubt that the constant bombardment of the message that violence is entertaining and that it is a means to solve even minor problems does impact our society in a real and negative way.
I would love to see our social addiction to violence change.
And I think we should be doing something about the availability of guns.
Why is it we can't deal with more than one issue at a time in this country? Does it have to be the case that video game violence is not a problem in order for gun violence to be one?
It's a different issue and not tied to guns. Yes there should be some kind of rating system on violent videos. Yes it has been tried before. By a Democrat and they were laughed out of the Senate for 'violating our FIRST Amendment rights'. Different issue, same argument.
"I would love to see our social addiction to violence change."
Exactly, but that would mean that gun manufacturers are being denied their ability to make money, and that won't be tolerated by the GOTP!
Not to mention that this nation has been steeped in war for the last decade, and the neocons are still pushing for more war - but that doesn't seem to have an affect on anything does it....
Video games are a problem because the gun manufacturers are starting to use them as a way of targeting young people as another huge money making market.
What? Please tell me you are not being serious...
He's right. "Product placement" for specific gun brands, mkodels, etc., are starting to show up in video games.
The video games logic has been tried and found wanting. We went through the same argument with TV and movie violence. Research has shown that there is no link between any of those items and violence. However, we do know that home environment has a large effect on children.
No one's buying the republican's classic framing tactic anymore. The world's more complex than that, the discussion has left your neat little box. They can keep their insincere bleating on repeat while the rest of America gets down to actual problem solving. Whatever, Alexander.
You need to print the link to Senator John Kerry's final speech before the Senate today. It is a call for hope and change among his colleagues, many of whom could not be bothered to show up to honor this man's 29years representing Massachusetts, its citizens, and all other Americans to do what is best for the nation. This man is a gift to our nation for many reasons, and we are honored to have him become the new United States Secretary of State.
Rachel, you should have him as your guest.
judy king,#16,
I agree, she should. Kerry is the most underrated man who ever served this country. He's a wonderful senator and a very decent human being. We should all be proud that he is our new Secretary of Defence. He is very, very knowledgeable on foreign affairs.
India,
He's our new Secretary of State (not Defense).
Gees, of course. What was I thinking!? Typing too fast. Yes, I knew Hillary was S.O.S.! My mistake. Thanks.
Here's a great writeup from Charlie Pierce (Mass. blogger) on Kerry!
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Confirmation_Of_John_Kerry
Guns don't kill people, video games do? The new GOP mantra?
The argument doesn't really make sense to me . . .
Shooting zombies with a game console makes you violent, but shooting actual living creatures with an actual firearm doesn't?
YEah, I used my electrical generation powers from Infamous, along with my Nanotech battle suit from Crysis to power up my hand held Rail Gun from Borderlands to commit carnage and mayhem the world over by teleporting to my next location from the coordinates I downloaded from my floating orbital battle station.........
I Hate when that Happens ! But the Rail-gunz sure are Cool ! Traveling through those wormholes sure is painful !
A quick bath in the Nano solution and I'm right as rain.... Except it doesn't rain in my world. The sky drips acid and there are zombies. Lots and lots of Zombies.
Also Nazis. Nazis from the Far side of the Moon.......
What I found MOST offensive in Grassley's 'testimony' was his statement 'If the President really CARED he would have done this four years ago! (ie IT'S ALL HIS FAULT). I was screaming at the TV 'If YOU really care you stupid old fool, YOU would have done something, anything since 1981!!!'
The slaughter of our Nation's citizens and children continues and they try to blame anything but the implements of our destruction.
Just how much money does the gun industry pay these inhuman cash boxes?
They can have my joystick when they pry it from my cold dead hands!
Yeah me too! Oh wait a minute you mean that silly thing used to control games? I thought you meant that other gun ...
Don't get them started...
These people who do not want to have any form of gun regulation really do have to be questioned. After all who would really want no gun regulation. We know the gun companies making these profits on their death weapons at the cost of the innocent want no regulation. But the very criminals like Drug Lords really prefer no gun regulations at all also, since they can purchase whatever weapon they want than use it in the U.S. or ship those weapons to South America where they can really shoot even more innocent people. Look at the problems they are having in Mexico with all these weapon sales in America where people are being killed there every day. Perhaps, La Pierre needs to answer also on who is all his contributors when he comes to lobby for no gun regulation and wants more innocent people to be murdered by the results of what he does. And who is La Pierre really supporting criminals or innocent people? Looks like some people will do about anything for a fast buck with no concern about the consequences of those actions.
'Bout time. Pac Man turned me into a dot eating wonka wonka!
Why solve a problem when you can redirect attention to something else. I do see a direct correlation though between video games and war mongering. I also see how playing a chopper pilot on a video game leads to flying into buildings in real life. I mean it is so obvious how we strive to make fantasy reality. Of course the right wingers have become very very adept at doing just that!
Might as well say, "People don't get killed by guns, they get killed by games."