Chuck Hagel was not at all supportive of the 2007 Bush/Cheney troop "surge" in Iraq, and at his confirmation hearing this morning, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) seemed to characterize it as a make-or-break issue for the former senator's confirmation.
For those who can't watch clips online, McCain noted Hagel criticizing the surge policy at the time as the "most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam." McCain demanded to know "Were you correct in your assessment?" When Hagel deferred to "the judgment of history," McCain continued to hammer away, demanding, "I want to know if you were right or wrong."
Watching the exchange, it might seem as if Hagel is being evasive, or at least defensive, about a misstep on his record. But the larger context is important.
For McCain, the surge worked, ergo, anyone who questioned the policy is necessarily a fool who lacks credibility on foreign policy, national security, and the use of military power. In reality, conditions in Iraq may have improved in 2008 and 2009, but there were a variety of factors -- including the Sunni Awakening, which pre-dated the surge, and a ceasefire announced by Shiite militia leader Muqtada Sadr -- that contributed to the decline in violence. To argue that "surge = success" demonstrates a lack of depth.
But more important in this instance is McCain pretending to have credibility. "I want to know if you were right or wrong"? That's not a bad question, necessarily, but I'd love to hear McCain himself try to answer it.
This guy wants to launch a fight over who was correct about the war in Iraq? Seriously?
I'm reminded of this amazing Frank Rich piece from 2009.
[McCain] made every wrong judgment call that could be made after 9/11. It’s not just that he echoed the Bush administration’s constant innuendos that Iraq collaborated with Al Qaeda’s attack on America. Or that he hyped the faulty W.M.D. evidence to the hysterical extreme of fingering Iraq for the anthrax attacks in Washington. Or that he promised we would win the Iraq war “easily.” Or that he predicted that the Sunnis and the Shiites would “probably get along” in post-Saddam Iraq because there was “not a history of clashes” between them.
What’s more mortifying still is that McCain was just as wrong about Afghanistan and Pakistan. He routinely minimized or dismissed the growing threats in both countries over the past six years, lest they draw American resources away from his pet crusade in Iraq.
Two years after 9/11 he was claiming that we could “in the long term” somehow “muddle through” in Afghanistan. (He now has the chutzpah to accuse President Obama of wanting to “muddle through” there.) Even after the insurgency accelerated in Afghanistan in 2005, McCain was still bragging about the “remarkable success” of that prematurely abandoned war. In 2007, some 15 months after the Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf signed a phony “truce” ceding territory on the Afghanistan border to terrorists, McCain gave Musharraf a thumb’s up. As a presidential candidate in the summer of 2008, McCain cared so little about Afghanistan it didn’t even merit a mention among the national security planks on his campaign Web site.
He takes no responsibility for any of this.
McCain now seems eager to have a conversation about who has credibility on Bush-era wars, even with the benefit of hindsight. It's one of the more profound examples in recent memory of a politician lacking in self-awareness.
Indeed, as of this morning, McCain actually seems to believe it's worse to get the surge question wrong than to get the entire war wrong.
"I want to know if you were right or wrong," McCain said. You first, senator.
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I dream of the day John McCain finally kicks the bucket and I will never again have to listen to the idiotic concerns of a senile war-mongering gigolo.
No I don't want him to die...I just want him to go home and drive a golf cart around Mesa where the worst thing he can do involves crimes of fashion... Like wearing Bermuda shorts with suspenders and socks with sandals
I vote for die! Otherwise, he would still show up on the Sunday talking heads programs every other week. Preferably he would take Senator Gayham and Joe LIEberman with him.
Crimes of fashion - lolz. I like "kick the bucket" too, time to give back to the universe those things that you were loaned and now squander "Senator" McCain.
All three of these little old ladies, McCain, Graham, and Lieberman need to shut up and go home. We are all sick of the ridiculous right-wing political posturing just to get attention. Why make fools of yourselves on the taxpayer's dime? If I wanted to see clowns, I'd go to a circus. We are dealing with serious issues here.
No one cares what this ridiculous trio of warmongerers has to say to settle their old grievances. None of which matter to the issue at hand.
None of which matter, period.
Someone remarked on Facebook earlier today that Senator McCain ought to be forced to wear an "I picked Palin" button to every hearing at which he intends to speak.
#1.5 LOL I agree!
Also, "I was one of the Keating 5" button under that!
I never liked John McCain. His own words over recent years have shown me why. He's a complete egomaniac who lives for attention and self-aggrandisement.
Now that it's entertainment awards show season, I propose a new award, "The McCain," for politicians. Stupidest politician, most obsolete politician, most embarrassing politician...the categories are endless, and the contenders near-infinite. What a show!
To quote Jay Leno: "Politics is show business for ugly people."
McCain - Hah , Just who died and made him King-Dictator ?
I think it is time for "know it all" John McCain to retire, he is wealthy & has big pension & health care WE are providing for him at no cost to him. He is nothing but a trouble maker & doesn't attend meetings to find out about the correct goings on. Bull headed & lame brained in my estimation. Sore loser at not getting to be President & a thorn in every ones side.
I agree with all of the above suggestions. I really like the "I picked Palin" pin idea the best, LOL!!! But there is one thing I noticed NOT mentioned in describing this man (if I call him a man, isn't that an insult to decent men?) and that is SOULESS!! I don't know about anyone else, but during his embarrassment of a campaign, I noticed his eyes the most (not over Palin's stupidity, but that is another conversation entirely), there was NO soul looking out from within. That really bothered me, that something like that could possibly be my president.
Why can't Arizona just vote him out? The sooner the better because he is dwindling into irrelevance.
#2,
And incoherence.
He was being his 'normal' bully self. 'I WANT AN ANSWER! YES OR NO!' And then...'I submit to the record that Hegal didn't answer!!!' Oh and the THANK YOU to Leibermann...honest to God...Ms. Lindsay, McCain and Leibermann...yes Frank Rich yes...the trio of fools. Although it makes me uncomfortable (not unliking him, just uncomfortable) to see the way Hagel speaks, I thought McCain looked like the intemperate, crazy ol' coot he has become.
Hegel was too much on the defensive. I think the reason for it was not to embarrass McCain even further. I do think Hegel is like that, and would have been loathe to make McCain look like a bigger fool than he already was being.
I wouldn't have been so kind, myself, but I never liked McCain to begin with. Twelve years ago McCain said his good friend, Hegel, would be an excellent choice for Secretary of Defence.
That was before this terrible virus swept the country: the T-Party.
McCain has emerged as the go-to guy you want to point to on issues, then cringe on others. Limbaugh/Hannity love to quote him when he disparages Obama, but they loathe him on some other issues. Progressive people love him on immigration, but on foreign policy issues the man simply lies alot.
McCain is an opportunist who will say what he thinks you want to hear. And he relishes having a national audience to watch is petulant behavior. The media should stop giving him a soapbox.
Perhaps Doctor Krauthammer can get McCain on the couch, and have him tell us about his "issues" with his father, Teh Admiral.
Or his Naval Academy years.
Or his "war" record.
-Let it out, Johnny; bottling it all up can lead to embarrassing appearances on Meet the Press!
I don't care if McCain dies or retires, but any credibility he had from being a POW and torture survivor is lost in the huge pile of political dung he has made his home in over the last 6 years (or more). As for why can't AZ vote him out, well look at their Governor and State House and tell me that there is a reasonable majority of critically thinking voters in that state. When you can tell me that, I will give you your answer.
Hate to bring this up, because somewhere, reading this is going to be someone who bashes me for it, but here goes---if he was tortured as he claims, why does he have pictures in his home and office of him and his captors?? And why, if he was so tortured, does the man who was one of his guards still talk with him via phone and skype every week? Has visited his ranch, is godfather to one of his grandkids, etc etc ad nauseum?? Officers weren't tortured (all that much) during Vietnam because they knew they could be held for ransom. How do I know all this? Some family members served with the cold-hearted SOB (their words, not mine).
Think McC was tortured for a while, hence the awkward (broken) arm, and the chipmunk (broken jaw) cheeks.
Then the Viets found out his father was Admiral of naval forces in far east... and softened up on him.
Still, don't get his military prowess in congress... head of committees etc... he graduated 895th out of 899 at Annapolis, crashed 4 jets as a pilot trainee... All determined "pilot error" by investigators... clipping electrical lines while hot-shotting, having to bail out after flame-out, getting "lost' while flying home from an away Navy game (hic), they're all explained in books you can find on Ggl... None of these are an accomplishment as far as being a military expert are concerned
That was all long ago... but his biggest blunder was Palin. Thank God for that.
I can't add much here as most of the posters said it better, but I wish somebody could fire back to John about the planes he crashed and if he was wrong to be included as a member of the Keating 5. McCain is a very little man who gets smaller every day.
#7
Tony Reno,
Yep.
McCain is a legend in his own mind.
I'm not quite sure what accounts for Lindsay Graham's imagining he knows his a$$ from a hole in the ground. Self deception is an amazing phenomenon.
I really like the way you put that, gets right to the point!
Thanks, Tony!
Everyone feels terrible about his years as a POW. But what caused that to happen?
Some legends are truer than others.
I used to like McCain, too.
Being a Navy person, myself you tend to root for one of your own, and his POW status kind of heaped him up there in the respect category.
Today, I though he was rude, and condescending..like a lawyer on tv.
I don't think like the Senator from Arizona anymore.
I'm also a Navy person, the first time I ever saw or heard of Crash was while watching to film of the USS Forrestal fire. I wondered who the pussy was who was running away from the fire.
When I was in the military, I saw plenty of doofuses like McCain, and there are still plenty like him in the military, no doubt. However, most of those doofuses don't become public figures the way McCain has.
McCain aside, was it not a valid question?
It was a rhetorical question all sane people already have the right answer for! We worked to create war in Iraq! We occupied that sovereign state for too long, and didn't really build a nation we can hold in confidence, let along count as a reliable ally!
And as Hagel noted, Iraq made our effort in Afghanistan a muddled and ineffectual engagement!
I need more coffee always, and I enjoy your posts too! -Kevo
It might be a valid but to what point? If he said he was wrong, so? Does that mean he can't be a good head of DOD? I would think every decision ever made by any general was questioned by some underling. I would rather have someone who questions actions before they happen rather then try to explain what went wrong.
need more coffee, No, it is just political grandstanding. McCain has old issues with Hegel, and he is after revenge. McCain is like that, an egomaniac who hates to lose or be called wrong. He is a vengeful person.
He also is unable to forgive Obama for beating him in 08. He never will, either. I notice he, like other Republicans, are veering further and further to the right. I see this as a disturbing trend, and bad for the country.
I just made a freshly ground pot of coffee myself. Nothing better.
Yeah I think it was a valid question. What wasn't valid was the badgering. McCain was trying to get a 'yes or no' answer to a question that is obviously nuanced...but he didn't want to hear it. He wanted to hear he was right and everyone else was wrong.
I'm thinking that Senator McCain's five years as a POW in Vietnam, with all of its torture and inhumanity, had an enormous impact upon his psyche. As an elderly man, he can no longer hold back the damage.
There was a time, back in 2000, when McCain was worthy of respect.
2 Presidential campaigns later and he's not.
I mourn for the guy I wouldn't have voted for but would have heard out.
He's just an old bitter man. Probably thinking he could have had Sarah Palin in his oval office wearing a blue dress all to himself.
Sarah Palin would have smothered him in his sleep so she could be President.
Hahaha
"To argue that "surge = success" demonstrates a lack of depth."
It also demonstrates that "brass pair" to actually believe that going into Iraq in the first place was correct! But then again, what else should WE expect from Mr. Full of Hubris Showboat Know-Nothing?
Still waiting for The Purge, namely of Mr. McCain.. You have "0" integrity sir, good day!
Mr. McCain has repeatedly used his time in Captivity as a POW to leverage his election and than re-elections for far to long. Straight Talk, not from him. His Presidential Campaign demonstrated many reasons why he should not be in Washington DC. That said he continues to be re-elected by the people of his state, and so until they no longer support him we get to hear from him.
For myself, a Veteran of the US Army, I have a deep distrust of any who would claim to have been in the variety of Wars the US has engaged in when they were not in any war zone. After that, someone who would try to profit in any fashion from their War experience. McCain has been grandstanding for almost 40 years now. What is even worse is the fact he is generally wrong in the positions he supports. His is a tired refrain from the facts on most of the issues he has taken.
Thank you for your service Mr McCain. Now go out and try to limit the harm you do to America as you promote yourself as the number one Vet in the Country. He is all but irrelevant, except for the vote he casts. Though he may be a Patriot, his brand of patriotism is stuck in the 60's and 70's......bc
I think you're quite right, bcinu2. McCain wants to own #1 Vet in the Country so much that he enjoys knocking his fellow vets down a peg or two. One can't have Hagel in competiton for the title, can one?
McCain lost what little integrity he did have when he picked Palin as his VP. Now he's just an old, bitter loser.
Actually, he lost his "integrity" a long time before that, but continuously floating that he was a tormented POW & veteran still gets votes.
BAD QUESTIONS:
Mu means that the way the question is phrased that presumes a false dichotomy.
EXAMPLE: Yes or no, "have you stopped beating your wife?" I never beat my wife thus both yes and no are false.
Example: This is what Hagel was trying to tell McCain
Evading questions looks different:
Example: When Condoleezza Rice testified about 9-11 she refused to answer the actual question and just talked over the congressman who asked the question. Instead she made a speech that everyone knew before hand and claimed that it answered the question that asked for details.
This is an incomplete list because I am tired of typing.
great feedback!!!
This is my first confirmation hearing, but the format does not seem to work for nominee nor the senators posing questions.
Does a 7 minute time constraint for each senator succeed in giving a valuable information on how the nominee will act in the role of office!? I don't see it. Most of the senators end up in the duration getting irritated when Mr. Hagel tries to respond with more than a sentence! Neither side is very succinct and neither can be for some of the issues brought up.
Senator McCain was so obviously out to prove himself right rather then to prove anything about Mr. Hagel, and seems to have been a waste of time in getting closer to recognizing the nominee as qualified for the office or not. Senator Graham also wasted time talking about a letter that Mr. Hagel did not sign and left out all the details about it.
I wonder if this also reveals something about our government and how some of the procedures also add to the dysfunction.
I think John McCain was happiest when he was in the military. In his mind, he's still fighting the Vietnam War and won't stop until we win it.
John McCain gave away all of his relevancy to Sarah Palin, she squandered it and now it's all gone!
Speaking of credibility of McCain (and his excessive commentary about Benghazi), he apparently met with Ambassador Stevens in July or August of last year and Stevens told McCain that he was worried about security. WHAT DID McCAIN DO IN RESPONSE UPON HIS RETURN TO WASHINGTON? How did McCain act? Who did he call? How did he follow up?
I saw a hypothesis that his perseveration over Benghazi is a way to cover up guilt he felt over hearing about the problem and letting the ball drop upon return to DC, only to learn that within 60 days time, Stevens was dead. This hypothesis wants some research. For all I know, McCain returned from that trip, contacted the right people in the right agencies. I don't know. But I like the idea of questioning McCain about his own actions.
John McCain's Vietnam experience can be summoned up in 3 letters....POW. Some may find hero in that, I don't. This man's military record is anything but stellar....google him and find out....some of his records are not available, wonder why?
I do not like John McCain; but I would never disrespect his time in the Vietnam war, not for his benefit but for all of those who fought and died in that war.
I'm a combat veteran
from Vietnam and I will disrespect the incompetent fool all day long.
How can John McCain ever ever be taken seriously? Anytime he asks a question, any question, the answer should always be, "Sara Palin".
McCain and the rest of the "merry band" of war mongers have to "justify" their existence and not having any solutions going forward they only know to keep playing the same old news reel. Original thinkers---RIGHT!!
I have always wondered why a man that was a POW is such a war Monger. One would think he would be against war. He has become such a bully and nasty to everyone that does not agree with, he needs to go home if he can remember where it is.
Want a softball confirmation hearing? Nominate a sitting democratic senator.
I agree with all of the above. John McCain is a "case". Does he REALLY not understand how most people feel about him. Within the last week, has he not done a COMPLETE about face on the immigration issue? I do remember reading articles that questioned his conduct as a POW......remember? Didn't he "snitch" on other POWs....oh, I'm sorry, we're not suppose to mention that.
Please don't overlook and not be report the class warfare demonstrated by the Hagel/McCain exchange. Hagel was an enlisted man in the Army and McCain was an Officer in the Navy. How dare an enlisted man attempt to be appointed above his betters. Think I'm crazy? Been there seen that. It is a vestige of elitism that is still ignored in our culture.
"Been there seen that."
Same here. There is a lot of ugliness in the military that most US civilians probably don't want to know about.
Ah! Hah! So that's what Johnny boy is all wee wee'd up about.