EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans
By Michael Isikoff
National Investigative Correspondent, NBC NewsA confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.
The 16-page memo (pdf), a copy of which was obtained by NBC News, provides new details about the legal reasoning behind one of the Obama administration’s most secretive and controversial polices: its dramatically increased use of drone strikes against al-Qaida suspects, including those aimed at American citizens, such as the September 2011 strike in Yemen that killed alleged al-Qaida operatives Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan. Both were U.S. citizens who had never been indicted by the U.S. government nor charged with any crimes.
NBC News Exclusive: Drone strike white paper
Mon Feb 4, 2013 9:10 PM EST
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Is this why the gop/tp is soo Fruity ? They should be , because they are Traitors of America !
Launch the Drones - Now ........... Heheheheeeeeeee................
After-all Ronald Reagun supported Alquieda with Training and Weapons , and also GHWB supported the very same and actually called them His Friends !!!!
On Dec. 4, 1969,The CIA along with the Chicago Police department assassinated Black Panther leader, Fred Hampton. The American Government killing it's own citizens, and saying it's legal, is nothing new. While I don't agree with the tactic, please stop presenting it as if this is something new with the Obama Administration. History makes clear that it is not.
Amen to that statement and Thank-You .........Lets SEE .... Bonney and Clyde ..... Baby-face Nelson .... Martin Luther King ....... President Kennedy ...... Jimmy Hoffa ........and so-on and etc...........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwZe-pUhMsQ - B.P. - Go Round in Circles
"I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you, that there is "gambling at Ricks!"
and, another quote, from Gen. Smedley Butler: "War is a racket."
Despite the tortured reasoning, I doubt this is legal. Having said that, I'm okay with the drone program and figure we've saved ourselves a lot of money and soldiers' lives dealing with these terrorists. I'm saving my outrage.
Actually, I believe GWB's Patriot Act covers this.
Funny, trying to lame bush for yet something else. Obama sanctifies killing citizens who are not threatening our country- you would think liberals would oppose such, but hey are blinded by the love affair with Barack. So, as a result, they have to justify his goofy position by blaming bush...
Your good buddy Bush got the Patriot Act passed. Fact. Can't dispute it candy you rusty?
Hey Goofball , It Was GWB that started the Patriot Act - so STFU !
Happy D Clown:
You just displayed your complete ignorance.
Maybe you should shop listening to what RW radio is telling you and do your own research.
Prior National Defense Authorization Acts
Larry, Eddie- I always consider it a successfull day when I tick off liberals and have them spouting stupidity. It might be a better stance for you (The Patriot Act signed by Bush), if Obama hadn't renewed it. Eddie- I've noticed that you aren't exactly the sharpst knife in the drawer, but you may want to cast your lot with someone besides Larry. There's quite a few statements from him that would suggest he is oarless?
Now- would either one of you two care to defend an assassination? Direct targeting of an enemy as opposed to battlefield occurrences? And then expand that to US Citizens where there is no evidence, let alone proven in court, of threats against our nation? Guess in your opinions intentionally killing a citizen in a foreign country is better than waterboarding a non-citizen?
This White Paper is a prime example of why we need a functioning Congress.
The Executive Branch should not be the one to write the rules on drone strikes, but in the absence of a functional Congress the Executive Branch fills the void with its own rules. This makes the President and his subordinates judge, jury, and executioner out of necessity.
Congress should write and pass laws governing drone strikes, the Executive Branch should use drone strikes as laid out in the law, and the Courts should make sure this is the case. This is high school civics, for crying out loud.
Instead, Congress gives us continual manufactured fiscal deadlines and three dozen (and counting) failed attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act. Congressmen should hang their heads in shame.
You are exactly correct. The house is too busy forking the evil eye at women, minorities, and so called socialists and "takers", plus being butt hurt about losing elections due to their own stupidity to focus on their actual jobs.
Lol at this concept as well as goofy Larry's above. Obama comes up with a policy that in no way can be defended by thinking people- so it must be the fault of those rotten Republicans in Congress.
If they would only work with the Democrats in Congress- then they would be able to prevent Obama from being so stupid. That is exactly what John is stating and what just is agrreing with. I love it- they are arguing Obama has stupid policies- but the Congress is at fault.
This was just one of the most amazing segments you've ever had on the #Maddow show. I mean it. Just amazing reporting, and framed in the most lucid way possible.
We support human rights except when we determine our "rights" matter more than any other country's rights. We condemn other countries for the exact same things we are now doing, arrest without charges, council, or trial and now assassination. That makes me ashamed to be an American.
Rachel, I am a conservative republican and enjoyed your show for the first 30 minutes...it was refreshing to not hear bashing of conservative views or people in the GOP, etc. Then you got into the birther crap....really...wow. Do you and your readers really equate birthers to the vast majority of the GOP??? If that's the crap you are trying to propagate to keep this crap going...go ahead. You were for a while presenting some good news....oh yes even us "old", "white", "racist" folk , as some from your network like to categorize us, can tell the difference between non-biased and biased news reporting. I was impressed...now I'm switching channels again...how sad...I tried to hear something new but you ruined it with your ugly bias. Thanks..not really. Signed, Trying to hear you, Jennifer .....oh god now as I sign off you are talking about theories about people calling O gay and muslim ...who the heck are you. I guess you will try nothing to bridge the divide..well I was hoping.
You say you're in the silent majority of the conservatives, and I can appreciate that... but you need to clarify a few things. We all know that the vocal minority within the GOP ARE Old, White, Racist, Religious Zealots, and/or Stupid. So which are you? There can really be nothing else. All current GOP policies are founded under those descriptors. If you aren't any of the six above adjectives why would you vote GOP? Almost all of their current ideas are on the wrong side of history as well as being under those six adjectives. If you're a GOP member that remembers the 80s fondly... you should really be voting blue right now.
Stephen, You said it.
Jennifer Brandt,
Rachel Maddow has the brightest, fairest show on TV. She has a well informed staff and is careful to present facts with clarity and a high degree of intelligence and accuracy. She's the best.
Jennifer,
When the GOP Senate point-man for negotiating health care reform, Sen. Grassley, lies to the public by claiming the Affordable Care Act includes 'Death Panels', it is evident that more than just a few members of the GOP gladly indulge in delusions such as 'the birther crap'.
The GOP used to be populated and run by responsible citizens. I'm sorry to say that those days are past, and now it appears the inmates are running the asylum.
John, They sure are.
I am afraid it's the media these days that are slanting people's views of each other. I know many, many reasonable and fair thinking GOP. Believe as you wish.
All you have to do is watch CSPAN to know it's not the media causing the problem. The GOP does a very good job of it all by themselves. And live, you can't blame the media.
"Bridge the divide"? What is that even supposed to mean? I think you are just looking for confirmation of the things you want to believe. Stick to Fox.
Maddow stoops to the same level as McCain. Drone strikes,
Ben Ghazi, and a supposed US
citizen who served in an enemy military organization and made war against the United
States. Of course he was killed, that is
exactly what our forces do to enemies at ware with our country. Like McCain,
Maddow has become desperate for melodramatic issues about which she can speak
out to confirm her deep political views. Like McCain she has destroyed her
credibility by appealing to true believers. This is a set back for the important
causes she and her producers have pursued. For example, recent Maddow shows
have made very significant points about gerrymandering and Republican efforts
to restructure the electoral college system. In those instances, the show was
well researched. Then comes the supercilious patronizing lecturing about how
the war against Al
Qaeda based on no understanding of or knowledge of the problems of waging such
a war. I for one will watch a few more times, but I am inclined to think the
show has lost its usefullness. Most of my friends seem to agree.
Ben Ghazi? Didn't he play for the Celtics in the '70s?
I don't think "the voices" really count as friends.
"We all know that the vocal minority within the GOP ARE Old, White, Racist, Religious Zealots, and/or Stupid. So which are you? There can really be nothing else" You said it not me.....If you don't know of any other I can't school you. I am a proud, conservative, strong believer of smaller government, welfare reform, tax reform, school choice, right to work, pro-life believer but am tolerant, belief in strong family and moral values with equality for all people, strong military, decreased entitlement spending, personal responsibility-read Frederick Douglass' autobiography..good read. I could go on....but have to get up early to work. Night.
Why should this surprise ANYone who's been paying attention since 9/11?
Neither party is a friend to the American people when they attempt to justify a "legal case" for this sort of behavior.
Love the show, Rachel, but I am fully content with the drone program, Gitmo, renditions, and the killing of terrorists who are plotting to commit an even bigger 9/11. al-Awlaki may have been born here, but he gave up/renounced his citizenship when he
joined al Qaeda and moved to the middle east to recruit easily impressionable people to plot and carry out our destruction. My sympathies lie with those poor souls who jumped to their deaths from the WTC towers. That is the image I can’t erase from my mind, and I have NO sympathy or compassion for the sub-human scum who plot ceaselessly against us, and they have NO rights to which we, or our gov't or military, must be amenable. Kill them all, I say, and do it however and wherever they can. At times your far, far left-wing civil libertarianism and your concern for the due process rights of avowed terrorists is somewhat irritating to me. But, you are entitled to those views and I don’t begrudge you for them.
Fighting "The War On Terror" involves some very unsavory and unusual means to
achieve a desirable end, and, on that level, I am in full support of any president hunting down and killing those whose goal is to kill themselves and as many innocent civilians as possible. They have NO rights, if you ask me, and should be afforded none. I only wish the intelligence services would shut their mouths and stop indulging the media by supplying explanations of action and policy. “Top secret” information should be just that. I'm also aware of the "slippery slope" to which you are vaguely alluding, and I am confident that IF there were truly legitimate concerns for American citizens
being targeted on American soil by our gov't/military for being deemed “threats” to our nation, it wouldn’t be only the far-left ACLU-types protesting such activities, rather it would transcend the entire political spectrum. The individuals who are targets of our covert military ops and counter-insurgency programs are targets because they deserve to be targets, pure and simple. They aren't your average person with a legitimate grievance.
I, and others who share my views can’t fairly be pigeon-holed as right’-wing, either. I am an Independent voter who is pro marriage equality in every way, pro Ledbetter Act,
pro VAWA, pro social safety nets and programs, pro peace and love, pro education, pro tax reform, pro choice, pro death penalty, pro gun-control, and all the warm, fuzzy issues that help make America, in spite of all its flaws, the best place on earth.
truth be known, many would agree with you. The problem, perhaps, is that they (the Executive branch) can be so brazen about it.
Excellent post, epluribus... I, too am content with the drone program. It's clear that war technology is rapidly changing. We can now surgically remove foreign threats to our country, minimizing fatalities. If American citizens are so brazen as to join forces with foreign enemies to kill other Americans, then they have relinquished any rights they had as citizens of the United States.
I drove to Los Angeles this weekend, and from Reno the best route is one that weaves through Owens Valley, and the Manzanar historical site. Never stopped there, was thinking about it, but time was an issue. You can see a reproduction of one of the guard towers from the highway. I thought about that part of our history, as I think about the drone issues, privacy, security, etc. I believe we'll make the right choice, eventually. I think the bigger issue is reeling in corporate control of our foreign policy, our military, etc. A strong, free populace, one treated fairly and is fair to the world in return is going to deliver more security than a sky filled with drones.
Wow! Is it me or is this "white paper" exponentially scary? I understand that this white paper is not law and is it only to spark debate (hopefully). I am a firm believer in the Constitution of the United States. I'm 34 years old and I don't want drones flying over my house in 10 or 20 years, making me feel like I'm being monitored by an American police state. If I continue to see this type of American decline I will be forced to seeked citizenship elsewhere in a land where the government follows its constitution, and protects its citizens. If you care about America, we citizens have to stand up against this type of American future, unless you want all of your privacy invaded, with some police officer flying a drone over your house to see what your doing in your own home, that you pay taxes for. It seems to me like the United States Anti-Terrorist agencies are working more to scare innocent American Citizens with over-reaching anti-constitutional "white papers". It always goes back to the constitution. As technology progresses, this electronic invasion of privacy will only worsen.America is camera crazy. Get the cops to do their job on the streets and out from behind the cameras. Stop being so suspect America, your subjecting yourself to suspection on what your motives are. Stick to the constitution. Its a legitimate invasion of privacy if a drone can see what I'm doing in my house when all my doors are closed, blinds are drawn, and curtains closes. Before long, American's will have to prove their innocence, and the whole innocent until proven guilty concept, what happened to that? Did the authors of this white paper even read Amendment IV or IV? I trust that my government never killed its own citizens without due process. If anyone has any evidence of the contrary, please let me know. Thanks Rachel Maddow and Michael Iskikoff for bringing this terrifying news to light!
Ok talking about the Legal justifications for the targeted killing of American Citizens....and working out the legal methods to protect American Citizens from gun violence...
Is the dark and terrible irony of tonight's show lost on anyone?
This is way to far down the rabbit hole
Patriot Act must be repealed. It is anti-constitutional in every sense. They should have let it expire when it was supposed to. It gives America the power to turn itself into a Police State. The drones are on their way unless we write our Senators. If you don't agree that its an invasion of privacy for a drone to see you inside your house, and that that is not a violation of the Constiution of the United States (Bill of Rights) specifically Amendment Four, then you don't see my point. I don't want drones flying over my house in 10 or 20 years monitoring my activity. Did the authors of this not even read the Constitution ( Bill of Rights )? It seems like government agencies are doing more to scare Americans rather than protect them. They are writing anti-constitutional "white papers" with no regard for infringing on the liberties of innocent US citizens.
Your exclusives are the closest thing to real journalism that I've seen on any broadcast TV news in a while. This drone issue angle that you present today, backed by memos and facts is news. I appreciate that you cover stories on issues that no other shows carry. I watch the parts of your show that do not rinse, wash, repeat, rehash all the stories that have already been covered by all the other news reporters on MSNBC all day.
Under the precedents established at Wounded Knee II, "Ruby Ridge," Mt. Carmel, and Rainbow Farm, yes the President can order the killing of American citizens within (or outside of) the US, without judicial hearing, if they are deemed to be "too remote" to capture readily (even though in all the above cases, the targets could have been captured easily).
Welcome to Indian Country, where the government treats you just like Indians.
Welcome to Fascist America.
Programs like this always start out this way. We kill somone who we know is American, but working for the enemy, and a lot of us say, oh well, he was plotting against us - that makes it o.k. Thirty years down the road when this all gets political, whose to say what will determine if you're an enemy to the U.S. What if Democrats or Republicans, bought and paid for by the wealthy of this country, are told certain people are enemies and need to be eliminated. Do you trust these people to decide your fate! I certainly don't! This is dangerous territory we're entering! It's a very slippery slope we're sliding on - there cannot be any exceptions! An American, is an American, wherever they are, no matter what they might be plotting! Due process is promised to us by our constitution! We have always protected the rights of the guilty in order to uphold the rights of the innocent! Both political parties have been, and still are, twisting our constitution to serve their priorities! It must stop!!!!
They can drone strike me if the Republicans keep getting their way much longer..
It's surprising that the Obama administration is so harsh on terrorists abroad but lets them run rabid about the District of Columbia!
As I was preparing to send you some info on the new drone 'War' coming to the US this Spring. No, I'm not a wing-nut talking about "Armed Predators in the US sky". I'm referring to a legislative 'war' being set up in Oregon, Virginia and cities in Western NY and elsewhere.
In Oregon where I'm a resident, State Senate Bill 71 has been introduced which outlaws 'drones' from 'Oregon Airspace'. This bill is so extreme that even possessing an A.R. Drone toy/model, such as you had on your show once, would be illegal and a Class A misdemeanor (up to $6250 in fine) - because it is taking pictures. Strangely enough, if the 'drone' fires a bullet or other projectile, it is the least severe Class C misdemeanor (up to $1250 in fine). It declares an 'emergency' bill, hence no sponsor is listed, and I'm not sure what powers declaring an emergency convey.
http://www.leg.state.or.us/13reg/measures/sb0001.dir/sb0071.intro.html
Fine. But I'm a hobbyist that enjoys nature photography - trails, woodlands from a low aerial viewpoint, using multi rotor and fixed wing craft, and am training myself to be an RC pilot for video production. I'd be SOL.
One last bit of background - In order for Congress to pass the last transportation bill, which included funding the FAA - including paying airspace controllers, inspectors and other actually vital functions - was an FAA mandate to integrate UAS's (Unmanned Aerial Systems) into the National Air Space in a specified short time. Immediately for government and educational platform testing, September-October 2012 for emergency services (police, fire, rescue), early 2013 (test sites for commercial protocol testing - nothing in progress yet) and 2015 for full individual and commercial implementation.
Line up of the 'war'
jurisdiction - State vs Federal
size - over vs under 50 pounds - serious military hardware vs commercial remote sensing
size - under vs over 5 pounds - Hobbyists vs others
flight mode - LOS only vs FPV - Line of sight vs First Person View (video downlink for flying)
social - privacy vs freedom - strangely some are on both sides "I'll fly whatever I want but don't spy on me"
social - ACLU vs ACLU - they have confused definitions of 'drones'
economic - Hobby vs commercial vs defense vendors
homeland security vs ????
Patrick Egan RC photography advocate
http://www.rcapa.net/default.aspx
Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) THE model aircraft association
http://www.modelaircraft.org
Military/Security application featured - other not really covered
On Wednesday, Jan 23rd, PBS aired its most recent Nova program entitled. “Rise of the Drones“.
The Wing-nuts (IMHO)
David Swanson
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/01/26/285660/drone-deployment-turns-us-into-battlefield/
Nick Mottern
http://www.knowdrones.com
John Whitehead - Rutherford Institute - probable source or inspiration for Oregon bill.
https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/on_the_front_lines/rutherford_institute_issues_model_drone_legislation_calls_on_congress_to_pr
I have no problem with the Drone program. I mean do any of you miss the dead terrorists? But what about the fact some are americans. Why should we differentiate between race and nationality? Do they plan on doing harm to our interests? If yes...then by all means kill them, because you know they will try to kill us first.
I too was wondering if it's only the fact that an American was killed by a drone that is bothersome. One could definitely get that impression by the comments posted.
What is bothersome is that the White Paper is making the case for eliminating Due Process, indictment and trial by your peers. It eliminates our system of innocence until proven guilty. It allows us to assassinate American citizens, their children and neighbors based on a suspicion of an imminent threat. It is Minority Report and if we allow our government to kill American citizens without due process abroad, it will not be long before they will do the same here.
Anyone who still supports the "assault weapons" ban after reading this article is an idiot, pure and simple.
We don't even realise what's going on in this country. We are allowing this to happen, by being divided against one another. It's going to happen because the ACLU doesn't defend gun rights...it's going to happen because the NRA doesn't defend privacy rights. It's going to happen because people defend their rights but they don't defend someone elses rights. How can anyone be for one type of freedom but against another type? This never made sense to me.
I see a lot of stupid comments on MSNBC most of the time. People (on both sides) calling other people "terrorists" and "traitors"...it just goes to show how frightening the future will be if we don't wake up. Even if we overthrew all these wackjobs by force, we'd only end up killing each other afterwords...just because someone didn't say the "right" thing...or believe in the "right" thing! A government is only going to be as good as it's people. In the future, think about the rights of your fellow man or woman and be god damn careful who you call a "terrorist"!!
Wtf- yep, on all counts, you're right.
The Florida Bill SB 92 (in Senate)
http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...Text/Filed/PDF
Amateur drone association (FL)
http://www.amateurdroneassociation.com
Texas House Bill 912
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB00912I.htm
Virginia House Bills HB 2012, which incorporates HB 1616 has PASSED today 2/5/2013
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...131+sum+HB2012
[US] Congressional Research Service report -
Integration of Drones into Domestic Airspace: Selected Legal Issues
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42940.pdf