shooter242
June 11, 2012 at 6:54 am

I’d like to encourage more trollery on left wing sites. Specifically pushback on common memes such as identified by Jonah Goldberg as unchallenged cliches. It can actually work, and it can actually change the course of debate.

For instance, I always challenge “the rich take too much of the pie” meme. There is no pie, no one decides who gets what, and the “pie” is a measure of contributions to a total. Ergo the rich don’t take they contribute. It’s been gratifyingly effective.

Try it you’ll like it. Don’t curse and keep the personal insults to a bare minimum, don’t allow moving goal posts or distractions. Ignore trollish responders, and be four times more civil. They hate that.

______________________________________

New day. Same old ca-ca from the trolling class.

It's the fact that you can't see the problem with that response that dooms your party. You can't even see the problem with the fact that the GOP simply doesn't do policy or issues anymore. It's got no interest in the project of governance. All it does is troll. That's all you've got.

"We're for freedom and liberty. Liberals hate freedom and liberty. So vote for us."

And when your party does get its hands on power, what does it do? Just more trolling. "Government is bad. We need to just slash everything by ten percent. No need to dig into the details because all government is bad. Did we mention that we are for freedom and liberty?"

I mean, you can't even get down to the agency level. What specific programs do you want to cut? "Um programs and stuff. All of them. Because freedom and liberty." How will that help America? "Um, freedom and liberty."

And then when you get your asses kicked in elections, you don't ask why. No, because you're for freedom and liberty, you already know the answer. It's because democracy itself is a hopelessly defective form of government that lets Democrats win by promising "free stuff." Yeah, that's it. Because, after all, what other explanation can be for voting against freedom and liberty? Which you're for and liberals are against.

Shooter

The problem with that is that the GOP is, when it comes to minorities and the poor not the least bit interested in providing them access to either "freedom" or "Liberty"...or in many cases basic human dignity.

You yourself are guilty of it every time you go on with you're "Free Stuff" rants. You are demonstrating the cultural insensitivity and ignorance that fundamentally underlays the entire conservative culture and mindset.

Conservatism is the party of "leave me the hell alone". But let's take Dragoon's comment as a baseline....

The problem with that is that the GOP is, when it comes to minorities and the poor not the least bit interested in providing them access to either "freedom" or "Liberty"...or in many cases basic human dignity.

This isn't even close to true. Minorities and the poor have every freedom and liberty anyone else does in this country. Perhaps more. The poor are already get free food, free education, free medical, free phones, and best of all free money. What else in there do you need to maintain "human dignity". I'm serious, why doesn't that suffice? Do the poor need someone to wipe their butts too? Why do some people succeed even with obstacles, and some fail no matter what they are given?

You yourself are guilty of it every time you go on with you're "Free Stuff" rants. You are demonstrating the cultural insensitivity and ignorance that fundamentally underlays the entire conservative culture and mindset.

OK your turn, how is calling Democrats the party of free stuff culturally insensitive and ignorant. You do know most poor are white rednecks right?

Sometimes a person's stupidity, lack of empathy, or sociopathic attitudes get in the way of their humanity. This is one of those times.

Words may fail me here, because there are probably site monitors who won't let me say what I really think of excrement like you.

I am a disabled senior who makes less than $10,000 per year. I receive $680 a month in "free money" called Social Security. I pay $115 a month for Medicare Part B. I do not receive free food, nor begrudge it to those who need it most. I worked my way through college, with some assistance from the GI bill for my service in Vietnam. I do not get free medical as AZ removed me from Medicaid due to budget cuts. I do not qualify for a "free"phone because I am no longer on Medicaid. Every month I try to figure out how to get a few extra dollars to avoid eviction.

How am I enjoying my freedom and liberty? I can't afford a car or insurance, so I'm limited to how far I can ride a bike (I can't walk more than 200 ft), which is pretty limiting to my freedom and liberty. Do you think all that "free" stuff lets me maintain my dignity? You think that the government gives me enough, and that it is sufficient?

I don't need you to wipe my butt. But maybe you could send me a couple of bucks so I can afford toilet paper. Or how about a few 8x10 prints of your smiling face that I can use instead?

I think the world would be a lot better off without you and sick sociopathic Reptilian friends.

Shooter

You are doing it again and you aren't even seeing it.

None of those things are "Free" those people pay for them with their taxes and payroll deductions. These are the people who do the vast majority of the sweating, bleeding, living and dieing in and for this country.

Look at any battlefield the US has ever been on...you know who you find there? Minorities and the poor.

Look at the people who do the jobs that make basic life in this country possible. The people who sweep the floors, and take care of the elderly, who grow and harvest our food, stock our shelves and bag our groceries.

When was the last time you think Reince Priebus washed his own car or cut his own grass?

You are not only wrong you are willfully ignoring your own class based prejudiced and sanctimony.

OK I'll stipulate free money doesn't include SS and medicare. But it's still free money when it's EITC and refundable tax credits. And yes it's enough to pay for SS and Medicare for the poorest. So no, not everyone pays for their free money, people like me pay for it.

rw, perhaps you'd like to tell us how you exist on $800/mo?

Dragoon, the military and landscaping are two fundamental ways to lift one's self from dire circumstances. Why would you dis the people who actually try to improve their circumstances? Not everybody was born with the proverbial silver spoon.

Which reminds me, to a lot of poor Africans, our poor like rw there live like kings. They don't because of where they were born. What do you complain about when confronted with an annual wage of $20.00?

Obviously Blankman, you have never been in the Military. Do you realize that an E3/E4 with a wife throw in a child or two - is eligible for food stamps (FREE STUFF)? Do you also realize that many military families were foreclosed on because they weren't being paid on time (many were Reservisists and their day jobs don't pay them when they go on Active service). And unless you "own" the landscaping company you're not getting paid much which is why many hire those "undocumented" day workers, or pay them next to nothing.

You're right everyone isn't born with a silver spoon. And that's why the social safety net exists - to give a hand up when you've fallen on hard times. You also believe that every child gets the same quality of "education" - well think again. By the way the US is 17th in Math & Science in the WORLD - so much for that "quality education".

Frankly comparing "poor people" in any other country to poor people in America isn't germane - the standards of living in other nations are NOT the same and costs of living differ. And while living on less than $1 is terrible everywhere, in America you really are below the poverty line.

Shooter

I am not disrespecting the poor I am pointing out that you are. These are people who go to work every morning and put into the country everything they can and when you take into account the amount of community service and commitment to charity these people provide it tallies even more than the commitments of many of the wealthy or the powerful.

One of the fundamental problems the argument you are making has is that it has no concept of what "Subsistence" means. Take SNAP (or food stamps if you like) the average amount of funds available for a family of four per month is about $400 in a generous state. $400 a month is NOT a lot for groceries. I speak with authority on this because my first 5 years in the Army I qualified for them and needed them to keep my children fed.

This is WHILE I was serving in the military. I paid my taxes, I did everything I could to improve my situation but I still needed the assistance just to get by. Was I being a drain on society? Was I being a "taker"? or was the system perhaps so broken that I had no other choice.

Failing to understand how much effort goes into just basic "Survival" when you are at that economic level is why your argument and rhetoric are tone deaf, offensive and wrong.

Like the part where freedom and liberty are "a stale and ineffective Republican agenda".

The Southern definitions of "freedom" and "liberty" are somewhat different from the Yankee definitions, since they are basically the "freedom" to do whatever you damn well please without the State interfering (interference from someone more powerful than you is, of course, how God wants it.)

Yes, that includes the "freedom" to own slaves and to take "liberties" with women who don't belong to someone you're afraid of.

And I most certainly do consider that to be "a stale and ineffective agenda."

Conservatism is the party of "leave me the hell alone"

... while I rape your sister. What are you gonna do about, eh?

What I'll do is add you to my ignore list. Adios.

So Dragoon did you say thank you to anyone for the Food Stamps? I doubt it.

Give a liberal a fish and he'll eat for a day... Teach a liberal to fish and he'll curse you everyday for not giving him another free fish.

That said, how about whipping up some enthusiasm for giving every household $10,000? Congress has no limit on debt, and Treasury can whip up new bonds overnight. If you really want to change someone's life that struggles financially, this is it.

Shooter

skirting the point as usual...

and to answer your question the person I had to thank was myself...

I was in the military so employed in the service of the nation.

I paid my taxes and did all the things I was supposed to do as a citizen of this nation.

so I was entitled to utilize the programs that my contributions helped make possible.

and if you are concerned that I didn't "Thank" you for your contributions I'll tell you what...you can take your "thanks" out of petty cash if it makes you feel better about yourself and I will keep the shrapnel as change.

You are dead wrong and you know it

Thanks and have a nice day

"rw, perhaps you'd like to tell us how you exist on $800/mo?"

I thought I just did. I live in a very inexpensive apartment, don't drive (no car payments, gas, insurance), shop for expiring food at the $.99 store, buy cheap toilet paper (don't send those glossies). I never eat out (not even fast food). I have a sister in Washington who occasionally sends me some money, although she doesn't have much herself. I owe her a great debt of gratitude.

I have not always been in this position. Until four years ago, I had my own business. I got sick, spent 21 days in the hospital, lost my business and almost lost my life. The hospital bills were over $125,000 dollars. Recovery has been slow and painful.

I did not choose to be in this situation. I've been fortunate in my life to have had a good education, a better start than most, and I've been able to make things happen because of that. But bad things happen, even to good people. And every morning you wake up thinking, today, things might be better.

By the way, how poor can all those Africans be? They've been trying to give me millions of dollars every single day. I can prove it. It's right here in my email...

You're welcome and thank you for your service.

Shooter

I know on an intellectual level that you are deliberately just trying to yank my chain and wind me up and make me say something that will make me look stupid and make my arguments less valid. That is not going to happen. I have made my case and I stand by it.

But still for all of that I will say that your artificial and deliberate sanctimonious arrogance has at long last outlasted my more than tolerant patience today.

we are done here

What Shooter doesn't understand and will never get, is that freedom and liberty does not mean the right to do whatever you want to whomever you want when you want. It is a two way street, your freedom ends when it encroaches on mine. Making it harder for minorities to vote is limiting their freedom to exercise one of the liberties of our country, the ability to participate in the selection of who is doing the governing.

The stale and ineffective republican agenda is NOT freedom and liberty, although someone without critical thinking skills might interpret the writing that way. Their stale agenda involves the specific policies they are proposing, which are inconsistent with real freedom and liberty while paying lip service to freedom and liberty. This article specifically lists real things that republicans have tried and continue to try to push though as "Deliberately long voting lines. Unnecessary voter-ID laws. Bogus allegations of voter fraud. A scheme to rig the electoral college. Efforts to weaken the Voting Rights Act." These are the stale and ineffective ideas that will prevent their so-called outreach from having an impact.

Shooter242
OK I'll stipulate free money doesn't include SS and medicare

Right there , that typical gop move , is just an admission that they are bold face liars , end of discussion

gop leadership and their retarded sheep that post in here are frustrated , they can not understand why the black community takes offence when they vilify people on food stamps in their community , the gop try and explain to the working class that romney should get all the free stuff he wants , while ending food stamps translates to FREEDOM AND LIBERTY , for everyone else , why wouldn't anyone buy that snake oil?

And when you see a pale frail gop voter with a bloody nose on tv? just think of shooter and how he talk to veterans on here , and smile , we are done talking to these doochbags

Craig, if a voter proving they are a citizen is the worst thing that happens to that person, life is good. Try harder.

This is not just about the relationship of political players towards the electorate. It's a recurring theme we saw in the Brennan revelation yesterday, the Standard and Poors story, and the Greenspan story regarding the relationship of elites to truth.

I am perceiving a widespread pattern of collision between those who order the world via two competing schemes:

1. via the top down approach that I would call the "God game" of manipulating the perceived reality of the group, -versus-
2. an empirical approach of attempting to determine the opinions of the group via blind experiment techniques to eliminate biases that distort measurements

This really is a fundamental clash of cultures between what the "wise men" advisors do. The first group are of the age old school of sooth sayers. They throw their bones, they convince the group via the collusion of participants in the manufactured illusion. The are fundamentally hostile to facts. Colbert mocks them as those who engage in divination of "truthiness" via consulting their Gut. In the political world, pundits and campaign advisors are paid multiple millions for what their Gut tells them the voters want and are thinking. In the commercial world, the mavens of wall street as with Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call base enormous strategic moves on what their gut tells the the market is doing.
.
What you wind up with are leaders like Brennan and Greenspan standing before Congress after a disastrous revelation they were living in a dream world... admitting they don't know what is true anymore, and that their method of achieving "perfect information" for best economic or national defense purposes... was flawed.
.
It seems to me that we have a failure in approach to truth. How else in the case of the Standard and Poor's story could we delude ourselves that there could be independent evaluation of the financial soundness of investment instruments using a system in which Standard and Poor's had strong economic incentive to collude with the agents it was purportedly independently evaluating? Such a system fails even a rudimentary sniff test to anyone even remotely aware of what blind testing is about.

So when you're waiting hours to vote this Republican outreach is going to be believable , provided you could afford the ID and the time to be able to vote at all.

Has no one pointed this out to him?

These Government programs ARE the chains of poverty for minorities. Look at the Graduation rates and drop out rates pre welfare and now...Look at the Black family and the single parent households before and then after the advent of the welfare society...facts matter.

skkkot, you have no idea what you are talking about. You want to blame the victim instead of the system who put them in that position.

You are absolutely ignorant about race, and the role that it plays in America.

Until you know something about minorities, their plight, and what is really going on you should STFU because you only look like the ignorant bigot that you are.

And I can see that you have not a clue about the truth of the matter. Pre Great society the Black family was intact with and the black community was strong with Black owned businesses. What is about FACTS you seem to take issue with? All you have to do is google the numbers and PERHAPS you may learn a little..... And to use race as a crutch in America today is REALLY unattractive.... with the number of Minorities of every race and creed in key powerful positions across the nation only makes that argument even more pathetic....

Scott

You are by going back to "The Great Society" not only are you deliberately ignoring one of the main topics of this post: the GOP decision to deliberately develop and follow a "Southern Strategy" of Racial division but you are supporting it and advocating it's continuation and expansion.

My advice to you is to stop take a breath and actually "Think" about what you are saying and why. Although I strongly suspect that you already know and simply just don't care.

No, The REAL agenda here is reinforcing a victim stereotype which has worked BRILLIANTLY for Democrats and the black Community to this point...don't you think?

Scott, how old are you? What do you know about the pre-Great Society black family? Intact? Strong? All those Black owned businesses (that should have made them good Reptilians)?

You're delusional. You're the typical racist who thinks everything would be better if we just went back to the 1950's or earlier. Do you really think that "The Ozzie and Harriett Show" was a documentary? Or "Father Knows Best"? The perfect life, with perfect parents (as long as they were white) dispensing life affirming knowledge to their rambunctious, yet endearing children?

Look, Mayberry was a TV show. Your attitudes and knowledge of pre-1965 America are sadly out of touch.

But true. Educated Blacks? Blacks with diplomas NOT incarcerated???? Actual Black owned Businesses in Black Communities? WOW! But sadly....true. And by the decade...the single Parent Homes increased...as did the drop out rate, and then lo and behold...the incarceration rate. Correlation? Not in a Liberals mind I suppose. The stats are easily found. Do you have the stamina to find them or shall I post multiple articles on the steady increase from decade to decade.

Yeah, Scott. Do post some links to those articles. I'd really like to know what you consider to be a good source.

You do realize, Scotty, that the population of the US has doubled since 1965? And you're surely aware that many states, under Reptilian leadership, instituted three strikes, no parole, and longer prison sentences? You're aware that 98% of all prisoners are in prison for non-violent crimes? And that, in lieu of a sane drug policy, almost 60% are drug related? You seem hung up on the incarceration rate, without seeing any of the policies that have made it worse. Maybe investing in people instead of throwing them away makes more sense.

Nah. You're a Reptilian.

In this case that will likely mean trying to reach back to Pre-southern strategy rhetoric when dealing with the African-American community and hoping that the old angry white part of their base either doesn't notice or will be willing to go along with a wink and a nod.

And then along comes the heir to Todd Akin and blows the whole scam.

scott-3860658

And I can see that you have not a clue about the truth of the matter. Pre Great society the Black family was intact with and the black community was strong with Black owned businesses. What is about FACTS you seem to take issue with?

Yes , before the great depression , it was just a garden of eden for the black community

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre#Razing_Rosewood

1923

The Miami Metropolis listed 20 blacks and four whites dead and characterized the event as a "race war". National newspapers also put the incident on the front page. The Washington Post and St. Louis Dispatch

the town of all black people was completely destroyed and evacuated by those friendly white folks of that wonderful time period

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/banished/pierce.html

On August 19, 1901, white residents in Pierce City Missouri (spelled "Peirce City" until the early 1920s) ignited a 15-hour rampage with weapons stolen from a state militia arsenal and violently banished the town’s 300 black residents. Three black men were lynched.But evidence has since revealed that some townspeople wanted to follow the lead of nearby Monett, which had expelled its African American population seven years earlier. To explain what had happened to Pierce City’s black population, the St. Louis Post-Dispatchdescribed the town as “Monettized.”

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/banished/pierce.html

The funny thing is...before the "Great society" Blacks voted equally between Democrats and Republicans. But hey, free stuff is very powerful...but alas, that what MAY appear as free...comes with perhaps the most devastating cost in which you see the condition of a large portion of the Black community today. You sound as if you have knowledge drawn from say..the last twenty minutes of reality.

More bullsh*t from skkkot. How surprising.

Tell you what...Go to fact check and see. Actually until LBJ Blacks voted overwhelmingly for Republicans.

Tell you what...Go fact check and see. The Southern Strategy.

Conservatards love to play the same tired "blacks supported the Republican Party." Unfortunately, conservatards like you live in the past. Which is why you guys lost this election.

Of course...couldn't have been just a bad candidate,eh? <sigh>

Of course it was a bad candidate. A bad candidate who was bigoted, backwards, and successfully alienated the very same population he needed to vote for him.

So much for your "we had bad luck" theory.

<sigh>

The trolls on this thread perfectly illustrate the trouble the gopers are in. It's the same reactionary elements as the Hofstatder wrote about fifty years ago. We all know the type: their bigotry is fundamental to their worldview and very sense of self. They cannot help themselves from reveling in the basest forms of bigotry and prejudice. Nor do they even want to.

As seen in their comments here, they disingenuously -- though transparently -- plead ignorance about their blatant racism and bigotry, they rewrite history to suit their worldview and whatever shoddy cover story they're currently pushing, and they think their sad attempts to score points against anyone to their left are not only working but that they're effective rhetorically and in fact are the long sought after 'messaging solution.'

They will not change their policies or their reactionary agenda and they will not change the fantasies they tell themselves about why they keep losing. And they will keep having to come up with more of those stories because sticking with more of the same only louder and angrier will definitely ensure that they keep losing.

Party on, dudes. Party on.

"Tell you what...Go to fact check and see. Actually until LBJ Blacks voted overwhelmingly for Republicans."

Just did, and that's not what they say.

Factcheck.org writes that Roosevelt in 1936 got 71 percent of the black vote and did nearly that well in the next two elections.

Harry Truman garnered 77 percent of the black vote in 1948. As for the GOP's candidates, Dwight D. Eisenhower got 39 percent in 1956, and Richard Nixon got 32 percent in 1960.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/blacks-and-the-democratic-party/

Exactly Helen , after FDR desegregated the military during ww2 , the black community moved to vote for dems on the federal level

old klan fiction from grandpa dies hard

@patango

and truman officially desegregated the military in july of 1948, which helps explain the jump to 77% in that fall's election.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/anniversaries/desegblurb.htm

I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with one being "blah" and the other being "whah".

Exactly.

Sales taxes are "aimed at the poor"? That is absolutely the dumbest statement i have ever heard. Who actually buys more?

And again you know nothing about what you say.

<sigh>

Try throwing FACTS in occasionally. When you just throw out ridiculous statements, it makes you look like a liberal.

I don't usually do this, but I'll give it a quick go...the poor have to spend 100% of their money on goods...they don't have the luxury of sheltering it for retirement, etc. So, if they spend everything they take in and have to pay taxes on that, then they are going to pay a larger percentage of their income in sales taxes. Someone who can afford a house or other investments can qualify for tax breaks or create them themselves when it comes to the superrich. Others like the poor and lower middle class are bound by these taxes because they pay it on 100 percent of the income they take in in the form of goods. Yes, others pay sales taxes on goods of course, but these are by choice and luxury. Donna is correct...you simply know nothing of what you say.

Proportionally, the poor pay far more of their limited income in taxes (not Income Taxes) than do the wealthy. It makes a lot more difference to them when 27% of their income goes to taxes, than when some wealthy person only pays 10% (even though that is more than a poor person pays).

When you are a member of a group that owns 80% of the net income, you should pay 80% of the taxes.

What makes one poor? is it his drive? Motivation? Decisions made over a lifetime? Skin color? Please...elaborate on that one for me. I Loooove to hear a liberals mind work.

Try throwing FACTS in occasionally. When you just throw out ridiculous statements, it makes you look like a liberal. conservatard.

There, corrected it for you.

You're welcome.

Boy...you REALLY got me....*LOL*

Boy is exactly right. You are nothing but an ignorant little boy having a tantrum all over this thread.

And I get you: you are bigoted, narrowminded, and an overall @sshole little child.

And there is nothing funny about it.

You show the meaning of Narrow mindedness. I see the Bigoted in the form of someone who will stay in their own little world, where the world is "Stacked against you" and you need help from any hand offering it... instead of making your own luck, which is what America is all about. Your way has been a catastrophe of record proportions..how about opening that brain to a different way of thinking for a change?

You can't see anything except your ignorant narrowminded blathering.

I see the Bigoted in the form of someone who will stay in their own little world, where the world is "Stacked against you"

That person is YOU and the party that you stand for. Which is why Obama got re-elected, the Democrats gained seats in the house and senate, and will continue to garner seats in the 2014 elections.

and you need help from any hand offering it... instead of making your own luck, which is what America is all about.

Let me tell you something, little ignorant boy: you know absolutely nothing about black people, what they think, what they are, or what they do, nor do you care to educate yourself about the issue. So keep blathering billy bob. You only show just how ignorant you are and why the repubs lost so much in the election.

Your way has been a catastrophe of record proportions.

And has "your way" been any better? Nope. "your way" crashed the economy. "your way" squandered a surplus and turned it into a deficit. "your way" oppresses women and people of color with nothing but bigoted rants wrapped in self-righteous bullsh*t. And "your way" cannot win an election without those demographics voting for the repubs. And instead of dealing with that, "your way" is still doing the exact same thing, over and over again. "your way" is the minority. And "your way" will continue to be backwards and narrowminded.

how about opening that brain to a different way of thinking for a change?

How about you do the same thing, hypocrite.

I did not EVER use the term "Black people" when talking about looking for help from any hand offering it. I was referring to the mindset YOU display.And hey, fine...if that crutch get's YOU by. Other people are wildly successful in America of EVERY creed and color. the Horse YOU are riding is a loser. Are Blacks somehow different from any other color today? EVERYONE can succeed, it happens every day in this country. Don't confuse my beliefs with politics. Just another excuse. And as far as the Economy...Fannie/Freddie crashed the economy and is the Second largest recipient of Government money...second only to the Banks it crashed.

What makes one poor? Do you really think people choose to be poor? That, somehow, grinding poverty is a noble thing that builds character?

Their are a lot of reasons for poverty. Being unfortunate enough to have a child get sick, or to lose your job. Spending every dime for shelter and food. Losing your house because of the actions of the banks. Getting cancer, or having a heart attack. Losing your job and the insurance that came with it. Making $7.25 an hour working at Wal-Mart, because there aren't any other jobs, even for people with a college degree. A stock market that crashed and took your life savings, your 401k, your investments. Trying to start over when you're 50+ years old. Having your pensions eliminated when the company you worked for for 40 years decides not to fund them.

America is not about making your own luck. We succeed because we share the risks, not by going it on our own. This is a country where "all men are created equal", but it doesn't mean that all men have the same opportunities. You divide the world into people who have money, and those that don't. Like Mitt Romney, you think that anyone who doesn't have money, is a taker, a whiner. Did it ever occur to you that there, but for the grace of God, go you?

Classic projection, Scott. Accusing other people of your faults (narrow mindedness, bigotry). You must have been the kid they gave all the wedgies to in grade school.

You didn't have to, skkkotty, and cut the stupid act. Unless you really are stupid, which is probably the case.

And I was referring to the mindset YOU display. You are accusing me of the very same thing you are doing, which makes you an ignorant hypocrite as well.

And if you want to believe in that crutch bullsh*t, that is up to you. While it is not FINE that you do, I am glad that you and the republican party have that view because it worked so well for you and the repubs this last election.

And again, you show a profound ignorance about black people, you show a profound ignorance about race and the role it plays in America, and show that you are an ignorant bigot as well.

And I am not confused about you at all: you are an uninformed bigot whose party is marginalized and eating each other alive. You are an uninformed bigot who depends on the very same minorities you b*tch about to win elections, because angry white people like you are now in the minority.

And that Fannie Mae talk is bullsh*t, and a tired old debunked right wing talking point, which, once again, shows you to be a repub tool.

Well...read the numbers of single Parent households, the drop-out and graduation rates for blacks as well as the incarceration rates for blacks Pre "Great Society" and then by decade AFTER the advent of Welfare and YES, it has taken a brutal toll on the black family in particular. Try READING a little before saying such obvious ignorant things...

skkkot, again you show your ignorance about black people. Go back to your klan rally and get the f*ck out of here.

And I see you showing YOUR ignorance of Black people. A sad day.

You don't see anything, skkkot besides your ignorant @ss.

And it is not a sad day because ignorant bigots like you are marginalized and see folks like you for who they are: ignorant, backwards, and bigoted.

Marginalized? 30 Governorships and the majority in the House? More coming in the mid-terms...you so funny.....

Marginalized? Exactly. Your own repub party are fractured and eating each other alive. 2014 will make sure that conservatards like you are out of office.

And again: there is nothing funny about you.

Keep listening to those that fill your head with such things. Propaganda is only effective if you get the marginally intelligent to believe it.

Keep listening to those that fill your head with such things. Propaganda is only effective if you get the marginally intelligent to believe it.

A little ignorant conservatard boy with a mean case of projection.

<sigh>

Not to worry, little Scotty's been blathering the same tripe since before Rmoney lost. Nearly word-for-word. All about how horrible the things are we liberals believe in and how in the next election (how that one turn out, Scottie?) we liberals would be brushed into the dustbin of history.

I believe the line is:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Actually... just you.

Deep breath Scott- out with the bad air in with the good!

You could have a Klansman run for office and NOT get 95% or more of the votes for him at a Klan meeting...Now on the OTHER hand...Blacks vote for Democrats at a 95% clip or better EVERY time....does THAT speak of racism? Or just the power of handing out Welfare by the Liberals?

How about a hand up rather than thinking of welfare as a hand out? Don't be so mean spirited, Scott!

Maybe, Scott, it speaks to the fact that the Reptilian Party has no room for blacks, votes against them on virtually everything, makes it harder for them to vote, and god knows how many other things. Would I vote for somebody who has made it their avowed goal to impoverish and disenfranchise me? Show me anything at all that the Reptilians have done in the last 50 years to help the poor, the African-Americans, the Hispanics, women, the young or the elderly.

You can't, and there's your answer.

My thumbs up is not enough.

Wow.!! That is really the point, isn't it?

Who doesn't approve of freedom and liberty, or at least say they do?

Problem is, most people don't understand that my/their freedom to swing my/their arms ends when they hit someone's nose (or body or comes 'too' close).

My liberty and freedom does not allow me to impose my views on others unless I can show that they are in reality true and it serves some public purpose. Just getting enough votes is NOT enough. Minorities have rights too.

Who pushed the civil rights act through? here's a clue....NOT the Democrats. Who came up with the "Great Society" that has led to the destruction of the Black family and the problems caused by the break up of the black family? (Not the republicans) The BUSH tax cuts that Hussein Obama heartily endorsed and made permanent...think blacks and Hispanics got that tax cut? What Liberals think is HELPING Minorities (Welfare) has actually enslaved them in Section 8 housing and Projects across the nation, and as well has been the driving force in the incarceration rates and drop out rates of Blacks as well. Any more help by the Liberals...and I'm not certain the Black community could withstand it

Are you black?

Nope.

But you sure are ignorant.

Now STFU with your ignorant kkklan @ss.

How do you KNOW I'm not Black? I may be what you would love to call a "Tom" for being Conservative, and seeing way too many of my Brothers killing each other in the Street, or filling the jail cells of the Nation because of ignorance. Not unlike the ignorance you have put on display. you know there are Conservative blacks that doesn't believe in a victim mentality.

Because you are a redneck idiot, that's why.

And don't even try it, billy bob.

You aren't black. You don't know sh*t about black people.

You don't know sh*t about race.

You are just another ignorant and bigoted @sshole spouting ignorant bullsh*t on this thread.

Did you read my statement? Subtract 50 years from 2013. Come on, Scott, you can do the math. LBJ knew damn well that pushing through the Civil Rights Act in 1965 was going to cause the Democratic Party to lose the South. He did it anyway. In 1965 there were still some sane Reptilians, people who put their country first, not last. After the Civil Rights Act was passed, all the right wing racists from the South joined the Dixiecrats, and then became the base of the new Republican Party. It's a matter of ideology, not party identification. The Democratic Party became the party of the big tent. The Reptilians became the party of right wing, bible totin', gun carryin', racist misogynists that they are today.

By the way, there are more poor white people on welfare and receiving government aid than either blacks or Hispanics. Do you understand anything about POVERTY? It doesn't just mean that you don't have money. It means no path to education, which means higher unemployment. It means living where you have no future, because you haven't the means to get out. It means getting run down schools, in crumbling neighborhoods. It means, for many blacks in the inner cities, belonging to a gang for self survival, because when there is so little, shared by so many, there isn't anything left.

Section 8 housing makes it possible to get people off the street and into shelter. Section 8 doesn't pay the whole bill; it just helps out. If you think that welfare and Section 8 housing "enslaves" people, you have your head on backwards. And to show your absolute detachment from reality, ask any black person if their community could withstand having all the help taken away.

It's not welfare that drives the high incarceration rates. It's poverty, it's lack of education, lack of opportunity, no jobs, no future. It's idiots like you who think the solution is to make it harder to survive.

Scott, when you're living in your mansion on the hill, remember this: back a dog into a corner with no way out, beat him, starve him, and he'll come for your throat. Do the same thing to a human being, and you can't dig a moat deep enough or wide enough, you can't hire an army strong enough to stop what will be coming at you.

I really believe that you Reptilians have a death wish. You've killed compassion, you've killed reason, and you're killing yourselves.

That's the thing...I do not really see White and Black. my Hometown IS mostly Whites whose "job" is generational welfare learned from their Parents. I despise therm as well.A wasted life. In America you can achieve to your level of Motivation and drive.Hispanics have came to the depressed area I am from and made a very comfortable living (more so than these welfare recipients) through nothing but sheer will and determination. And education is available to those who work for that as well. YOU make the choices that decide to what you will achieve and accomplish. And the "Accomplishments" of the great society is easily tracked through the decades in numbers that were non-existent before.

And that's where you fail. You think it's simply a matter of choice, that all you have to do is WANT to achieve and you will accomplish. You assume that everyone has the same opportunities, that we start at the same place. You were born on third, and think you hit a triple.

There are plenty of reasons why a strong will and determination are not enough. Why not try actually trying to understand why those people in your lily-white hometown are having such a tough time, instead of just despising them? Get some info from real people who are living the "soft life" on welfare and food stamps. In other words, get out of your bubble. There's a lot of information out there that doesn't come from Fox News or The Blaze.

And YOU are not impressive at all.

And you have no mind.

And still the fact remains: you don't know sh*t about black people, about race, and the role race plays in America.

And yes, you are sad.

Some people will never believe they can make it with hard work and determination and you just happen to be in that number...my heart truly goes out to you.

And some people will never believe that they are talking out of their ignorant @sses with absolute ignorant and bigoted bullsh*t.

And you don't have a heart.

Dear Donna...

Probably about time to ignore snot-3860658. Do wonders for your blood pressure. One does not convince the willfully ignorant racist to become a thinking knowledgeable non-racist.

I know, SadOldVeteran,

And I don't get mad at pathetic idiots like skkkottie. He is just mad that people like him are the minority that he rails against.

Nice try though Donna! You are more of a trooper than me that's for damn sure...Take care!

Congrats Donna...YOU have CONVINCED me "I don't know Sh*t about black people and the role it plays". Laughable and repugnant all at the same time.

Congrats, skkkottie, YOU are an IDIOT and BIGOTED troll who is also a disgusting individual.

And there is nothing funny about you.

Freedom and liberty to the Conservatives means the freedom and liberty for them to probe one's vagina and stop one from having an abortion. It means the freedom and liberty for them to poke one's nose into private and personal matters. These people are total hypocrites!

good seeing you again!

Because they can't deny what they believe.

If this whole conversation did not show what a victim mentality That Donna has and the laughable line "You don't know nothing about Black people'...shows who the racist here actually is. Facts don't matter and Donna here is a permanent victim that wants permanent victim status because of that irrefutable fact "You don't know Sh*t about black people". The mindless diatribe like that speaks to the things that go on in the mean streets of America's inner cities and how everybody needs to give these things a pass because somehow....some way...Blacks are somehow "Different" from everybody else....racists are racists and it really does not matter what color they are. Carry on.......

Wow Scott all this philosophical nonsense about not buying into a black person not having a different experience in America at this day and age. If you're not black then maybe she gots a point. However, your assertion that if only "They would try harder" is really lame. It's the mantra of a political party that frankly needs to practice what it preaches, because getting in front of political rallies and telling mainly white crowds that "some people" are just looking to get checks from the government, really isn't trying harder than you have in the previous political election cycles. If you don't believe me just go ahead and run off to Google the 2012 Presidential election results and see what results are returned. Here's a hint, Mittens didn't win.

And what skkkottie does YOUR conversation show? That you are a racist bigot who knows nothing about black people, or the role race plays in America. That you are not interested in knowing about it, because of your bigoted narrowminded and ignorant beliefs.

You don't know sh&t about me, skkkottie and you can keep your ignorant redneck opinions all you'd like because the more you post, the more you look like the idiot troll that you are.

And I wish you would go to an inner city and spout your nonsense because someone would bust a cap in your white bigot @ss.

Maybe THAT would educate you, but I doubt that it would do any good because you are all ready a brain dead troll.

So you can take your KKKlan rants and shove them up your all ready constipated bigoted @ss.

Carry on....

@Kay... plus let's be honest does anyone really take someone named "Reince" seriously? His name sounds like it belongs on the back of a shampoo bottle.