The solar energy industry in the United States is growing, but not as quickly as in some countries that have taken the lead. If you saw "Fox & Friends" yesterday, you learned one creative explanation for why we, as a country, are not winning this race.
Reading Will Oremus' report on this, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry.
"The industry's future looks dim," intoned host Gretchen Carlson at the beginning of the segment, which was preserved for posterity by the liberal blog Media Matters for America. She and her co-host went on to ridicule Obama's "failed" solar subsidies, adding, "The United States simply hasn't figured out how to do solar cheaply and effectively. You look at the country of Germany, it's working out great for them." Near the end of the segment, it occurred to Carlson to ask her expert guest, Fox Business reporter Shibani Joshi, why it might be that Germany's solar-power sector is doing so much better. "What was Germany doing correct? Are they just a smaller country, and that made it more feasible?" Carlson asked.
Joshi's jaw-dropping response: "They're a smaller country, and they've got lots of sun. Right? They've got a lot more sun than we do."
Oh my.
Let's unpack this a bit, because energy policy is awfully important, and anyone who watched the Fox segment might be confused right about now.
First, Germans do not get more sun than Americans. In fact, every American state other than Alaska gets far more sun every year than Germany does. Fox's report had this backwards.
Second, the Obama administration's subsidies to the solar industry haven't failed; they've vastly improved domestic solar output and expanded the industry's reach. So, Fox's report had this backwards, too.
And third, if anyone who cares about reality wants to know the real reason Germany's solar industry is ahead of ours, it's because the German government has invested heavily in environmental technology. Indeed, Max Greenberg's report flagged this Bloomberg Businessweek report from a few months ago.
Unlike the U.S., Germany has a national solar policy, a quick, inexpensive permitting process, and a national mandate that utilities sign up rooftop installations under what's known as a feed-in tariff--essentially a long-term contract whereby the utilities agree not just to allow the solar on their grids but also to buy the excess power from consumers.
In other words, the Fox segment might as well have come with an "Opposite Day" disclaimer. The on-air personalities seemed to argue that the United States should do better on solar power, but then said we should stop doing the very things that would help us do better on solar power. They then blamed Germany's superior sunshine, when in reality, Germany gets far less sun than nearly all of the United States.
News consumers interested in energy policy would be better off staring at a blank wall than listening to segments like the one aired on "Fox & Friends."
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promoting fossil fuels is job #1 at FoxNews...
Not really. Job #1 is slandering Democrats and anyone more liberal than Rush Limbaugh.
Job one at FOX seems to be "baffle them with B.S." FOX where our employees are blissfully ignorant.
Once more we must stop for a second and wonder, who the heck is watching these idiots?
"Fox's report had this backwards."
Don't they get everything backwards?
Given that their morons-to-begin-with audience is getting more stupid from watching them and from what they're being fed in their fundamentalist "churches," this is just another example of the alternative reality of wingnuts.
LOL The actual root job at Fox, I realize there is a chicken vs egg issue, is to promote fossil fuels. Money is the root of conservatism, and oil money rules over all.
I am an analyst in the solar industry and can say we are now dumber as a nation for having listened to this Fox news story.
I just knew it: Our German weather isn't bad. It just has a bad press! And FOX News now will come to save us from the infamous "German weather is awful"-conspiracy!
Yes, I've been missing all that German sunshine, too. I must have had my eyes closed for the past twenty years...
Two words explain everything: Coal Lobby
I would add oil lobby.
How much more do Germans pay for heat as a result of shutting down it's nuclear plants? Remember Obama promised prices would skyrocket?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/freezing-germans-join-greeks-and-steal-wood-to-keep-homes-heated-this-winter/
More likely oil, given the part ownership of Fox News by Saudis.
May I add right-wing idiocy lobby? There has to be one.
@Shooter
Nice attempt to change the subject. Germany's democratic decision to shut down nuclear plants has exactly nothing to do with the lies provided by Fox News on the topic of solar power.
It really doesn't matter which industry is behind this because they are all involved for the same reason: Money
Republicans represent interests that are adverse to change and new things until they have sucked every last drop of profit out of an industry and they aren't done with fossil fuels yet.
and since it is a long forgone conclusion that FOX is the propaganda wing of that party and those interests...they couldn't say anything else
Shooter
Your article is irrelevant. The plants are still running.
Germany Nuclear Power Plants To Be Entirely Shut Down By 2022
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/30/germany-nuclear-power-plant-shut-down_n_868786.html
Note the article has today’s date February 8, 2013
Shutting down a Nuclear Power Plant is more involved than flipping a wall switch.
Koch suckers is all they are. Paid liars.
Media Matters covered this a few days ago. And Dr. Juan Cole, at his blog Informed Comment, has been railing at the right wing "We ain't got enough sun" meme for some time. And it's not just the mulyuks on Fox's morning show who are spouting this fact-free nonsense: Fox-owned stations around the country have picked it up and consistently air anti-solar, anti-green spots when they're not covering local fires and traffic accidents.
And this would be why Fox viewers are more misinformed that those who watch no news at all. It makes it hard to have a real conversation about policy.
Which is exactly their mission. Why else would they always and consistently be on the wrong side of America's future?
That was my first thought, too. If you want to know why Fox viewers know so little about the world, this is Exhibit A.
I once got into an argument with some Fox nut on a plane who claimed the reason that Fox viewers did so poorly in surveys on current events is because of the way the questions were worded. He didn't explain how you word questions on current events so that only one group gets them wrong.
He couldn't explain because FAUX hasn't told them the answers yet.....
"The United States simply hasn't figured out how to do solar cheaply and effectively."
Ahem.
So while everyone is paying attention to the Eternal Bavarian Sunshine of Fox News' Spotless Minds, there's a more important error being made here...which is that increasing solar energy production isn't unattainable but is actually happening now.
Not to mention the successful geo-thermal program which Bush Jr. zero'd the budget for...
The excuse I heard about solar in Alabama was the south was too hot, the panels melted. And if the excuses didn't convince you, the price would.
grape wins the thread!
OMG, love the term. "The Eternal Bavarian Sunshine of Fox News' Spotless Minds". It perfectly depicts their pre Hitler mentalty.
Rachel, we need to talk about the Drone thing. I'm way leaning to being ok with it. Because, if our POTUS did nothing, they would WHINE about that TOO!
Please, don't waste your power on this issue, unless we get a TpRepub thing in in 2016 (Not Gonna Happen). There is more going on than any of us know. Keep focused on it, but don't dwell on it.
How the right is continuing with their War on getting their fingers in our panties is much more inportant.
* Clip the above and post to the right place. Thx!
LMAO!!!!
more sun, is that like not knowing how the tides work as well?
shaking my head its a wonder how anyone would believe anything from fox/right/wrong/hate party. i mean anyone who believes them has to have a mental issue or just not wanting to belong to reality.
When it's more important to be right than factual, you don't just believe Fox, you believe IN Fox.
We have had solar assist water heating structure for 30 yrs. We originally got a tax credit which made it a bit over $1500 for our cost. When we built our new house, we incorporated the hot-water solar assist system into the plumbing. When the sun shines (very often here in northern CA), it pre-warms the water before dumping it into the hotwater tank. Even cold days in the winter, the water feels warm as it enters the tank. In the summer, the water is so hot that the tank itself almost never turns on. With extra insulation that we built into the system and the house itself, we have power bills less that $50 a month. SOLAR works.
Problem is the payoff isn't immediate. The energy savings don't make the gas or electric meter run noticeably slower. Solar is a years long commitment but we're a country that only thinks as far as the next spread sheet.
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Exactly Rob,
Too bad, it would be easy (in the case of houses) for the Fed. Gov. to give money to local Gov. to offer interest free loans to be paid by whoever lives in the house at a rate of $50 per mo. until it is paid off. If $50 is too much, make it $20. In case of renters, they pay it to the landlord as a separate amount from rent and he pays it to the local Gov.
But, that might be seen as free stuff. And would hurt the profits of somebody.
It is FOX news reports like the one portrayed above, that has made even the most vicious right-winger question WHAT THE HELL are these people talking about?
Wrong.
The Right Wingers are bobbing their heads in agreement.
If "Faux & Friends" said Great Britain has always been a desert with less than 1" annual rainfall their viewers would then believe GB dry.
I know the subject is Germany. I used GB because we know it's sopping wet, and even if we didn't where did the London Fog line of clothing come from ... oh, thats right. Right Wingers name things backward. London Fog means it's dry .... never mind.
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Is that anything like, "we have always been at war with Eastasia"? Ignorance is Strength indeed.
Foo Foo news strikes again!!!
Are there any less intelligent people on television? These people would fit in perfectly on any MTV reality show.
Tell Shibani Joshi not to drive I-70 across western Kansas. The drive will blow her little mind. It is one giant wind farm from Salina to the Colorado state line. In fact there are lots of wind turbines going up in eastern Colorado as well. The real problem is the transmission of the electricity to Denver west and Kansas City east. I guess Gretchen has never been to Southern California and enjoyed the tremendous sunshine, I mean don't they call California the Sunshine State?
We might not be doing as well as we could or should, but we are doing a lot better with wind and solar than I thought possible in 2009.
Is Gretchen a secret Kardashian?
Seriously?
Thats why we keep Syrup of Ipecac.
....
Remember when Saint Ronnie tore Jimmy's solar panels off the roof of the White House and stuck the hydrocarbon needle deeper into our veins?
The Reagan revolution has hopefully ran its course and we can pick up where we left off thirty freaking years ago.
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This is the direct result of a symptom I ran into talking to my landlord. Solar power isn't as easy as pulling a proprietary substance out of the ground for making money. After you build the collectors( if you can compete with backyard mechanics who git-er-dun themselves) all you have left is first sale. Eventually the market dries up to a trickle through sheer volume of sales and replacement is nil to non- existent. It's a one-shot revenue stream with a limited time-frame and plenty of aftermarket competition. He was opining that you can't get the energy needs of the country met without extractives so we need to pour money into that and give up on alternatives. I asked him what happens to his grandkids and their grandkids when extractive technology hits the brick wall we all know is coming, he said "I won't be here". We need to tear the golden ring off the finger of those who control the decision making process in this area and cast them out. The only people who should be making the decisions about energy policy are the people who care whether or not their grandkids will have grandkids.
This is why I wish the Church would teach Jesus's lessons on reincarnation. Then people would know that they may indeed "be here" to experience all their present day decisions to take without leaving anything for the future generations. (and yes ... it's okay if I get slammed for this... :)
Kind of like putting the discharge from the sewer plant upstream from the intake for the water treatment plant. People get interested real quick.
Germany isn't sunnier than the U.S
No, just saner- they/we got rid of most of their crazies in the years between 1939 and 1945.
Not all of them are gone. They simply moved and hid. As we watch the extremists on the right we may well ask ourselves just where those nasty nazis went. Are they here ? A google search uncovers the truth, they are here and there. Thet are everywhere! They are also impotent nutjobs who will eventually be seen for what they are.
You know what's crazy? Take a look at a world map and track the longitude of the most southern tip of Germany to the United States. Germany, which has gone goo goo for solar, gets as much sun as the STATE OF MAINE.
Tell me we couldn't do that here in the USA and be MUCH more successful with it!!!
Fox Headlines: Obama's failed policies keeps the US from getting its share of sun.
Sorry Alva, you are incomplete.
Germany has more cloudy days than Maine, but it is that far north, so the angle is lower.
Mr. Benen.
Please start wearing a helmet at work.
We don't need you getting frequent concussions from your head hitting your desk so much.
Germany has taken off in solar due to market innovations. Rate-based incentives through city utilities, no interest loans, getting architects involved in building integrated PV. All things we can do here, and did in some states such as the rebate program in California. Now that state utility commissions are setting targets for renewable energy production solar needs to be an increasing part of that mix.
Slate has a good piece on this along with a "Solar Map" showing the quantity of sunlight in Germany and the US:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/07/fox_news_expert_on_solar_energy_germany_gets_a_lot_more_sun_than_we_do_video.html
Fox News has no credibilty on any type of science.
What is this "science" thing of which you speak? At Faux News, I'm sure they've never encountered it.
Germany produces 22 Gigawatts of power from solar power, which means Germany could power 15,400,000 houses - or at least 1/2 of all the houses in Germany. Meanwhile, California is roughly 25% larger in area than Germany with about 40% less population than Germany and is definitely sunnier than Germany. This means that with the sort of solar program in place in Germany, all the houses in California could be powered by solar energy.
http://bit.ly/XrMeBw
Look, anyone with a third grade knowledge of geography can see that Germany isn't much larger than Arizona, and it's a complete no-brainer which of the two gets more sunlight. But what you're failing to see is that, in Fox's America, the election of President Obama has doomed us to a thousand years of darkness. So any efforts at building solar here just won't work.
People here keep wanting to deal with those pesky little things knows as "facts." Republicans don't care about your facts. They just spent an entire presidential campaign lurching from one fiction to another--and they were both up front and proud of it. Why would anybody think that things would change AFTER the election?
I visited Germany twice. When I was in the airplane we were flying above a thick plume of clouds for as far as the eye could see. It was like this both times I visited. Fox does have it wrong. Europe in General seems to be a dark and gloomy, misty place indeed. Thanks.
(Jovian)
I will be watching tonights re-run. New song. Did you hear?
Fox News always sounds better in its original German... just finished watching "Television Under The Swastika" on the youtubes and it is hard to tell the two apart.
I'd swear I saw Gretchen Carlson's grandmother in there somewhere...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-yCsTHLxXs
Why are these people not called out for the misinformation they provide ?? Again and again they bullpucky the public and nothing happens...Hell even Dick Morris got taken to task...The average American should be demanding better or at least start boycotting the advertisers that are paying for the bull.