I knew Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 when it happened. A middle-east dictator wouldn't want to attack a superpower. He wanted to run the middle east. But most people don't understand things like that. They just listened to what the government said, no matter how bereft of sanity it was.

Almost 80% of people polled two days after 9/11 by the Washington Post thought Saddam did it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data082303.htm

Why? Bill Clinton.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Good evening. Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world. Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

Uuuuh...Shooter? Bill Clinton wasn't president after 9/11.

By the way, it's the 21st century. Just to catch you up.

So you think Clinton attacking Iraq over WMD's had nothing to do with people's perceptions of who attacked us on 9/11?

The polling says they did. What do you have to offer that explains that result?

Uuuuh...Shooter. You ever hear of George W. Bush?

The poll you cited says nothing whatsoever about Clinton's strike on Iraq. I'd be very interested in seeing one that did mention that. Cite, please?

My personal experience says that not one of the people I talked to had any opinion about who had attacked us until two things came out in the news:

1) The hijackers were all Saudis

2) The government started telling us that Iraq did it.

Because of #1, until #2, nobody I spoke to considered the possibility it was Iraq.

WHY the hell aren't cheney and gwb in Prison YET ? Fraud / Mis-use of power / Falsifying reasons to send OUR People to war / Sending 50,000 Americans into harms way / Profitting from All of this BS .........................

People's attention spans are so short that half of the people polled about the 9/11 attacks or the Iraq War probably forgot that Clinton was ever President, let alone that he bombed Iraq many years before.

That's really reaching, Shooter, even for you. Also, based on your references, Clinton's attacks were done to protect Israel and other middle eastern nations. They had little, if anything, to do with some likelihood that Saddam would launch an attack of any kind against the U. S.

Of course, people thought that Iraq was involved. Because George W. Bush and the neocons told them so. And why would our president lie? (eyes rolling)

pld, this poll was taken before the Saudi's were implicated. As for your circle of friends, apparently they didn't follow current events. You remind me of the West End socialite who remarked after Reagans's landslide election that she was incredulous, none of her friends had voted for him.

mp, Clinton attacked only 3 years earlier, more importantly there was a big PR campaign to justify the attack. That it was all a "wag the dog" distraction from Lewinsky doesn't change the public's credulity around Iraq as a real threat. Remember this poll was taken within 48 hours of the attack. Nobody had any idea who did it, and the administration didn't go around pointing fingers until much later.

Shooter,

as i remember it REPORTED ON 9/11 by several news sources, bin Laden was the main suspect. of course the "administration" didn't "go around pointing fingers until much later", because THEY WANTED TO GO INTO IRAQ, and 9/11 was a perfect excuse to go after Saddam Hussein.

i have to wonder about the UNINFORMED "public". unlike SARAH PALIN, i was able to determine that the attack on 9/11 was bin Laden, and therefore we should GO AFTER HIM AND NOT SADDAM HUSSEIN.

the only people who weren't concerned about the TRUE SOURCE of the attack on 9/11 was the bush administration because they had their own agenda based on their schizophrenic agenda that GOD told W. bush to invade iraq.

the iraqi war was based on LIES from the bush administration. they sent Joe Wilson to Niger to determine if there were WMD. when Wilson returned he wrote an article in the New York Times (?) saying that there were NO WMD. the bush administration was pissed at Joe Wilson for NOT BACKING UP THEIR STORY, and they outed HIS WIFE, a CIA agent VALARIE PLAME.

Blaming President Clinton for the ignorance of the american public is projecting blame to a democratic President, because YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT THE REPUBLICAN administration did, or like many repubs, YOU AGREE WITH THE LIERS AND STUPIDITY OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

as i remember it, the bush administration blamed Saddam Hussein rather early after the attack, they were determined to go to war in iraq. i hope you watch Rachel Maddow tomorrow night.

Once again, Shooter demonstrates his desire and talent to function as a propagandist.

Just to be clear, whether a country has or is suspected to have a program to develop chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks against the US on 09-11-01. The attackers used commercial jets, not WMD, to destroy targets.

Also, if the development or potential development of WMD were justification for an invasion of a country, we would have to invade most of the developed and developing world. We are talking about 1913 technologies, after all.

In order to achieve the goal of diverting attention away from those guilty of waging a war of aggression (a war crime as defined by the US during the Nuremberg Trials, btw), Shooter tries to conflate unrelated prior actions by a previous administration with the 9/11 attacks.

This is propaganda in the defense of war criminals, and is reprehensible.

Shooter, nobody was focusing on what Clinton did several years before when those attacks happened. As I said, most people's long term memories are largely absent in situations like this.

Bush and his buddies had long sought a justification for attacking Iraq, dating back to Saddam Hussein's unsuccessful attempts to assassinate GHW Bush. They expertly and cynically exploited the tragedy, using it as a pretense to go after Saddam. They did this by implying, right from the start, that Saddam was a key player in the plan to hijack the planes. That's not an opinion. It's a well documented fact.

If someone had taken a poll asking people why they thought we should go to war with Iraq, any action taken by Clinton would have registered as no more than a fraction of a percentage point.

How about a little honesty for a change? I documented that a majority of people thought Saddam did 9/11 and why I thought they would. In the end Saddam brought all this on himself by blocking inspections of his palaces. He didn't think Bush would invade and he was wrong.

As for "war criminal", considering Cornell West just accused Obama of being one, you might want to be more judicious about labeling.

http://www.inquisitr.com/527455/obama-is-a-war-criminal-prof-cornel-west/

While I would love to see the Hubris Special Monday, My TV suddenly Stuck on 1 channel (3). I assure you a lot of Red States is going to block this history telling saga I can see it now Commet Interferance. Not that people wants to miss the program they just won't be able too; I think." AT KNOW FAUGHT OF THEIR OWN "

Mary,

you are right. it has happened before.

Waging a war of aggression is a war crime. It was one of the principal charges against the defendants at Nuremberg.

Water-boarding is also a war crime. A US tribunal convicted and imprisoned Japanese officers on these grounds following WWII, and the US Federal Courts convicted an American law enforcement official of torture based on his water-boarding of suspect in the 1960's.

The Bush-Cheney administration levied a war of aggression against a sovereign state (Iraq) and used water-boarding (torture) in a desperate attempt to gain intelligence to justify the war after the fact.

This qualifies Mr. Bush and Mr. Chaney as war criminals, based upon the precedents of Allied and US tribunals following WWII and upon precedents from the US Federal Courts.

Well John, It also used to be illegal to kill an American citizen without due process, or disappear citizens indefinitely. Times have changed, the law is whatever the President decides. So you can whine all you want, but it is what it is, and your side is supporting Obama in his quest to be the decider.

So don't come to me denouncing Bush for doing what he thought was right, if you're not going to do the same with Obama. What's it going to be, hypocrisy or Obama the executioner?

blanks,

When Bush was doing that you were cheering him on, NOW you want to condemn Obama for it.

You are full of sh*t.

Shooter,

I think Congress should define the processes and criteria for drone strikes, and have said so repeatedly in this forum. The fact that the GOP controlled House has found the time to pass some three dozen repeals of the ACA while doing nothing about drones is not the fault of the administration.

Same in spades goes for closing Gitmo.

Inability of Congress to pass any meaningful legislation leaves this, and every, administration the choice of never firing a missile from a drone or being judge, jury, and executioner.

Unfortunately, the Obama administration has performed as a 'good emperor' in this instance and has produced procedures that satisfy the appropriate House GOP Chairmen. This is resulting in yet another abdication of power by the Congress in favor of the Executive Branch, which is unhealthy for our republic.

Of course, this 'rot' of our body politic will eventually become obvious, but not until there is a 'bad emperor' in office to abuse these powers.

And spewing propaganda in defense of war criminals is still reprehensible.

Shooter,

Please.

In April of 2006, in his defense of Rumsfeld, W. bush said, "I'm the 'decider' and i decide what is best".

it has never been President Obama's "quest to be the 'decider'". he would never speak so simply and ignorantly about his duties as President.

Shooter, Karl Rove, Roger Ailes, Koch Brothers, and Fox News ---- all peas in the same pod ---lie, distort, distract, deceive --- and they call it "fair and balanced." They believe in divide and conquer and then call you the divider.

Eisenhower was right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

So right; I've heard that speech. He saw it coming, for sure.

there is a MUCH BIGGER PROBELM evolving and mutating the USA than the lies the pimped out repubes tell. People not only make bad decisions on lies, and not only implement solutions as warped corrupt and sadistic acts based on the lies, the implementation of this evil (thou shalt not bear false witness) is accomplished with money, rules, employment, institutions, command and control which then seeks to justify its existence and methods in the face of the lies and contrary to the truth that is later revealed.

In short, the USA is becoming as paranoid as israel! That false fear which has no reason for existence - and which conjurers should have been tried and imprisoned, has become an operational environment of VAPOR WARE that seeks to keep itself alive for the sake of the cash flow that the SFB participants enjoy. For example... Salem Witch Burners Association - a collection of people and jobs and authorities and duties having a life unto themselves whose only real defense was to deny the facts and the truth.

For example.... the Spanish Inquisition Incorporated. A large collection of bureaucrats in positions of authority who were paid to perpetrate wrongs upon others and whose soul real defence was to deny facts and truth.

For example.. McCarthy Maniac Enterprises. A collection of pimped out wimps who decided that people should be perfectly perfect to such an extent that they were fit to be branded like cattle - either way. A decendent of the witch burners and other such morons, they set about to proclaim the the Grand Monkseys of Christiandomiciled Robots to be their savior so that all men migh be cast as enlisted or face being delisted. Naturally, their only real defence was to deny facts and truth.

For example.... Tricky Dick and Associates, LLP. A collection of power thieving hoodlums whose pretended purpose was to rescue America from impending communist domination of the world from those fictional characters who believed that communism was going to take over the world and that getting 35 Americans killed every day for 4 years was the way to go. And whose only real defence was to deny the facts and the truth.

For example... DUMYA, CHEATNEE, & @!$%#UTOO, LLC. A pretense professional organization of liars cons and thieves who paid people to wreak havoc upon society and then announced they had a plan to save the country from predictable wreckage. And again - whose only real defence was to deny the facts and the truth to such an extent as to have to make up lies and run shams counter to the broadcast truth.

For example... the PRIVATIZED PRISON INDUSTRY whose job it is is to make sure that wallstreet sucks the money from the economy to create a reduction of resources to create a desparation for survival to create an environment of crime to provide easier qualification for persons looking for food and bed in warehouses of restraint for extended periods of time so that wallstreet can pay their pimped out congress persons to raise taxes from the working public to pay for the building and other expenses to subsidize the warehouses so that wallstreet can reap the profits and pay the execs and board and ceos of the People's Warehousing Condomaximums.

have a nice day.

Re: #3

We need to demand facts.

We need to agree on what is the facts are and base our discussions and debates on the facts.

And we need to NOT waste our time in "witch hunts" and smear campaigns.

That's all the Republicans have.

hint..... PRIVACY IS NOT SECRECY. Privacy is good. Secrecy is evil. Think about it.

Sure, i'm with that. Lets bring up Obama and Clinton on charges for Bengazi also.

I know this is to complex for you to understand, but Obama and Clinton didn't cause Benghazi. Bush and Cheney were directly responsible for Iraq.

Really?-5374886

I’m sure that your Republication hissy fits about the big government spending had absolute nothing to do with Bengazi’s inadequate security budget.

to 5374866: So, Bengazi compares to Iraq? Sure it does. Where was your outrage ten years ago?

You want to blame someone for Bengazi? Look to see who made cuts to embassy security funding first. It wasn't the administration!

It was the majority of house democrats that voted in favor of passing the bill that cut embassy funding.

Funny, the State Dept. rep told Senate committees that funding had nothing to with the lack of security. She (Charlotte Lamb) said it was a directive from the White House that we keep a low security footprint in Libya so as not to look like conquerors.

Jason Chaffetz Admits House GOP Cut Funding For Embassy Security: 'You Have To Prioritize Things'

The Huffington Post | By Sarah Bufkin Posted: 10/10/2012 1:32 pm Updated: 10/11/2012 1:55 pm

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) acknowledged on Wednesday that House Republicans had consciously voted to reduce the funds allocated to the State Department for embassy security since winning the majority in 2010.

On Wednesday morning, CNN anchor Soledad O'Brien asked the Utah Republican if he had "voted to cut the funding for embassy security."

"Absolutely," Chaffetz said. "Look we have to make priorities and choices in this country. We have…15,000 contractors in Iraq. We have more than 6,000 contractors, a private army there, for President Obama, in Baghdad. And we're talking about can we get two dozen or so people into Libya to help protect our forces. When you're in tough economic times, you have to make difficult choices. You have to prioritize things."

For the past two years, House Republicans have continued to deprioritize the security forces protecting State Department personnel around the world. In fiscal year 2011, lawmakers shaved $128 million off of the administration's request for embassy security funding. House Republicans drained off even more funds in fiscal year 2012 -- cutting back on the department's request by $331 million.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/jason-chaffetz-embassy_n_1954912.html

To reinforce Ranger above, the person in charge of funding is questioned...

“It has been suggested that budget cuts are responsible for a lack of security in Benghazi, and I’d like to ask Miss Lamb,” said Representative Dana Rohrabacher (R., Calif.). “You made this decision personally. Was there any budget consideration and lack of budget which lead you not to increase the number of people in the security force there?”

“No, sir,” said Lamb.

Shooter and Ranger... I have to ask, "WHAT PLANET OR TIME WARP ARE YOU ON?!!" Iraq was a mistake... all of us who have been there should have seen that there was no threat of them attacking America... we never found WMD's... Halliburton was worthless, so was KBR... and we the soldiers got shafted and many of us died... Anyway, I learned my lesson... some people are blind because they do not know how to open their eyes, and refuse to listen because they are talking too loudly... are all republicans this thick?!! Just like the "job creator" tag, there is no proof to substantiate what you are saying... why do you sya it? Is it a lie you guys believe or is it a lie you guys do not believe??? Either way it's a lie... research for yourselves. Otherwise... I'm done talking to you guys.

The gop are so psychotic , they brag about drowning our constitutional government in the bath tub , then they imagine they can blame dems when they gut funding , and it blows up in their faces

you people have no souls or common sense

dickless cheatnee never had a fight he could not win! because..... he was too cowardly to ever have to really fight. He is not a leader, he is a greeder.

Back to the original question concerning war crimes, at #4:

Waging a war of aggression is a war crime. It is one of the four indictments at Nuremberg that upon conviction earned Goering the death sentence.

Goering was the Third Reich's equivalent of 'vice-president' during much of its span, from 1933 to 1942. This means Chaney is correct in being afraid to travel anywhere the International Court of Justice can serve a warrant.

The few democrats that voted for the war were exposed to top secret meeting full of lies, it did not occur to them that a president of any party would lie to them in order to get votes to push us into war.

Their problem was being to close to the center while millions of people like me understood that Scott Ritter, Hans Blix & Mohammed ElBaradei were telling the truth.

The closest the Bushmasters came to convincing me was using Colin Powell to lie to the UN, but in the end I figured that CP was, sadly, just being a good soldier and doing what he was told, much to his regret.

Brian,

Of course Democrats voted for the Iraq war also. Do you really believe that Bush and Cheney misled only Republicans?

Will Rachel mention that Democrats voted to go into Iraq? Of course she will. That will most likely be her point - how we all supported a war because we are all LIED to about it.

Amazing - YOU calling someone "biased"!!

Dear rodnchance. You are full of sh!t. Most of the dumbocraps who voted to go to war against Iraq did so because it was the politically expedient thing to do. There were more dumbocraps who voted for Bush's war than those who voted against it.

The minority who voted against going to war stood up to a masterful 'sales' job by the Bush Criminal Enterprise, displayed true patriotism, and displayed an unusual degree of courage in the face of overwhelming numbers. Not included in that number were Hillary Clinton! For the benefit of our country, please stay retired Billary.

Yes “Democrats voted to go into Iraq too” if the Democrats had voted NOT to go into Iraq we would not be having this discussion.

The point is the Executive branch of the USA government out and out lied to the Legislative branch, both Republicans n’ Democrats, and to the American people.

I for one would like to know how much money was made by who, because all of that money we are still paying did not go into the troops pockets, and if memory serve weren't private citizens banding together to send needed armament to their sons and daughters?

We were all bamboozled,most of the Democrats and Republicans wish they had never voted yes, and they would take back their vote if they had known the truth that was never spoken. It was the cowardice of our Administration instead of going after the Big fish they settled for a minnow. All the time wagging the tail of the dog. Look there's chicken, an entire government with ADD.

yes but.... the pimped out repubers wold have voted for the war anyway. the chicken crap dems were too cowardly to call DUMYA'S BLUFF. Not so funny, you could look at dumya's expression during his rants for war and see L.I.E. written all over his face upside down and backword. Between every sentence was the phrase "HEY! I'M JES BULL@!$%#'N" or "HEH HEH...DIDYA TAKE THE BAIT YET?" or "B'LIEVE THAT'N? GOT'NOTHER FERYA!". I mean if you could not tell it, your brain needs an overhaul!

Some can see some cannot.

“...more important than accountability for the lies that started the war is making sure it doesn't happen again.”

Who did it is LESS important than making sure that NO ONE can do it again. This by no way means that those involved getaway scot-free, just that safeguards are in place so that some other assbite cannot repeat the same actions.

Holding person ‘A’ accountable for their action only works on person ‘A’ and does not work as a deterrent for person ‘Z’, because person ‘Z’ will think they can get way with it, they are smarter than person ‘A’.

TRUE THAT! As long as there are enough greedy killer sociapaths willing to pay enough pimped out reps enough to conjure enough dimwit support enough to threaten enough cowardly go-alongers, yeah. it'll happen again.

SadOldVeteran,

I agree. The best way to prevent stuff like this from happening again is to arrest, place on trial for war crimes, and upon conviction lock up Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, and any or all of their minions.

The fact that they are running about free only encourages the next warmonger to do as he or she pleases.

Isn't it time we sat Bush and Cheny down in front of a panel and be judged by a jury, the American people. God needs a little help now and then.

So True, So Few. I was relatively well placed in an automotive-related company, which should have seen a bump in orders for material for tanks, trucks, PPE and such. And I kept asking colleagues and friends "where are the war-related orders for products and materials?" because I didn't see anything significant. The answers were kind of "Ummm".

Yes, yes, and yes...I have been saying that for a while, only not as well...The Kochs are by and large an enemy of the state...they have had good results from their efforts...they need to be indicted for treason/sedition as well as their allies...When Grover kept saying things like "drowning" our government, this is what sedition must sound like...Way back when, at the time of Washington, and the other seditious traitors, they must have talked smack about King George and the red coats and look how that ended...There are enough un-hinged true believers who are ready to end my rights to enhance theirs....

DAM! i think you're onto something! BTW, did you also do a "follow the money" enough to connect the iraq bash to it's predecessor, 911? no? well maybe you should have a look at the phone records of the crash teams.... phone records? WHAT PHONE RECORDS?

GOOD POINT. comcast is not very conscientious about their programming skills. Not a really really big deal but they are pricey for their lacky.

Yes, the world was massively deceived by Clinton's left over CIA director who declared the intel a "slam dunk". Mr. George Tenet.

Tenet was so leftover that Bush-Cheney gave him the Medal of Freedom for his Iraq CIA analysis.

Cheney knows how to reward a good "slam dunk."

Isn't it amazing that, to Shooter, no Republican is ever responsible for anything?

It doesn't matter how many Republicans in positions of authority act stupidly and make bad judgments. If there's someone previously appointed by a Democratic president, or who served in a Democratic administration, remaining anywhere in the government, even three agencies removed from the policy making group, that ONE person will be SOLELY and COMPLETELY responsible for anything that goes wrong--no matter how disconnected they may be from that decision.

It must be great to be a Republican and know that nobody in your party has ever been wrong about anything..

Wow! That's a whole lot of hypocrisy for one little MP.

Isn't it amazing that the Democrats and Obama are not responsible for anything.

It doesn't matter how many Democrats in positions of authority act stupidly and make bad judgments. If there's someone previously appointed by a Republican president, or who served in a Republican administration, remaining anywhere in the government, even three agencies removed from the policy making group, that ONE person will be SOLELY and COMPLETELY responsible for anything that goes wrong--no matter how disconnected they may be from that decision.

It must be great to be a Democrat and know that nobody in your party has ever been wrong about anything..

just saying...

Stormfront,

Isn't it amazing that trolls like you post such bullsh*t like you just posted?

Trolls like you come on this site willing to blame EVERYTHING on the Dems, even if you have to twist the truth or tell an outright lie.

Trolls like you are willing to justify every bone head move of the GOP, willing to condone whatever policy, no matter how sexist, racist, or bad for the poor and middle class it is.

It must be grate to be a Repug and know that nobody in your party has ever been wrong about anything...

just saying...

Donna...

you mean the exact same bullish*t that a liberal posted?

one of the difference between you and me is that I am willing to acknowledge that both sides are to blame and that both sides are corrupt.

you are just a lemming following in lock step with all of the others...

just stating facts...

stormfront,

No; I mean the exact same bullsh*t you and other trolls post.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

And your "I am willing to acknowledge that both sides do it" meme is bullsh*t. That is a tired old right wing talking point that you hide behind, thinking that makes you "fair and balanced." But it does not.

You are just another right wing troll who watches too much fox news...

And you wouldn't know a fact if it kicked your teeth in.

Just stating facts...

Let's see, Stormguy53, which party was it whose members held a favorite for the 2008 presidential nomination responsible for her part in the buildup to the Iraq War, and denied her that nomination, largely on that basis?

Which party's proponents forced a sitting president out of office because of his conduct of an unpopular war?

Which party has members who have loudly and publicly criticized a President from their own party for not following through on promises to close Guantanamo, follow through on immigration reform, or to be sufficiently aggressive on health care reform and economic stimulus programs--and expressed their displeasure by withholding votes for party candidates in the 2010 elections?

Which party is it whose proponents are making the biggest issue about the drone strikes and the killing of U. S. citizens without judicial involvement--and about the killing of innocent civilians in the Middle East?

Here's a hint: It ISN'T the GOP.

stormfrontal had a lobotomy and cannot see past his forehead.

i dont do facebook. a guy DECEIVES a couple people he pretends to work for and gets paid for doing so and then steals from them? isnt that the topic of this whole thing? how about GOOGLE PLUS or GOOGLE1?

You do realize that this was not our first time in Iraq right?

You do realize who got us into Iraq twice, right?

lmao? Good Mornin' Viet Nam! Good Afternoon Iraq! Good night Afganistan!

repubs STOLE 2 elections. now bush has the pleasure of being the worst "president" in HISTORY!

ditto. i suddenly realized we had a nation of cons frauds and thieves along with millions of fools and dunderheads. not a good feeling.

Worse, they pimp out our sons and daughters and get them killed in the process for their profits. Dickless Chehey is a pile of @!$%# and a traitor to all mankind.

just goes to show you, not only do repuber neanderthal brains not read... they don't hear, they can't learn, and... are not properly toilet trained.

i tell you the truth.... they killed him without due process because he would tell you that he did not want to go along with the zion bankers who insisted that he hold american currency in reserve and be paid for oil that way. That is the reason for his quick and processless execution.

This is also why the american press bash HUGO CHAVEZ. He removed his gold from the london exchange and took back his county's oil reserves. The banking profiteers are behind every such travesty and simply look for "cover story" which is easy to do since they monopolize the media and pay the pimped out govreps that lie to get elected. Thieves cons liars and frauds at the top. I do NOT include the president or VP or Liz Warren. Jesus Christ did not like them either. And he warned us as did Andrew jackson, Abe Lincoln, JFK and Gen Smedley Butler.

Got all your information about the legal system watching TV court drama's I see. Here is a clue Saddam got more legal representation then 99% of the people locked up in US prisons. Most of whom were told by their court appointed lawyers to take a plea bargain or face harsher sentencing for wasting the courts time.

Kerry should have walked over to dumya and slapped him a good one. Even challenged him to a duel. dumya is a turd.