yogavistastudio/flickr
First up from the God Machine this week is an amusing story out of California, where proponents of religion in public schools are suddenly deeply concerned about keeping religion out of public schools.
For the religious right movement, court rulings mandating that schools remain neutral on religion, leaving matters of faith to families instead of public officials, have been a major point of concern for several decades. Conservative activists are convinced that church-state separation doesn't and shouldn't exist, and secular education leads to a wicked society.
But as my friend Rob Boston reported this week, once in a while, the religious right forgets its talking points.
In Encinitas, Calif., an attorney named Dean Broyles has filed suit against the Encinitas Union School District, asserting that a voluntary yoga program for students violates church-state separation. Broyles runs a small legal outfit called the National Center for Law and Policy, which, according to its website, defends "faith, family and freedom." [...]
Was Broyles asleep when Sears explained that separation of church and state doesn't exist? How else can we explain his use of the principle in this lawsuit? Or could it be that Broyles and the ADF are just being hypocritical?
I'm inclined to take Door #3. Putting aside the question of whether voluntary yoga classes offer an example of "religion in schools" -- I consider the argument a real stretch, no pun intended, since plenty of folks practice yoga for reasons that have nothing to do with faith or spirituality -- there's nevertheless something hilarious about far-right activists complaining they want more and less public school promotion of religion at the exact same time.
These folks can believe the separation of church and state is a communistic principle intended to undermine religiosity or they can believe the separation of church and state is a bedrock legal principle that guarantees and protects religious liberty for all. They cannot believe both.
Also from the God Machine this week:
* This may prove to be a fascinating legal fight: "The House of Representatives has overwhelmingly approved legislation that would allow the use of federal money to rebuild churches and synagogues damaged by Hurricane Sandy, despite concern that such aid could violate the doctrine of separation of church and state."
* Pope Benedict XVI is reportedly "taking into consideration" efforts to change church rules so he can abdicate his post even sooner than expected.
* Famous-but-bench-warming quarterback Tim Tebow was set to speak at a hateful Baptist preacher's church, but when controversy erupted, the athlete backed out.
* Mahoney should probably try to avoid characterizing himself as a victim: "Los Angeles' retired Cardinal Roger Mahony, who was rebuked last month for his handling of the sex-abuse crisis, suggests he was 'scapegoated' in a blog post ahead of two important dates: his Saturday deposition in a lawsuit alleging that the church hierarchy protected a priest accused of molesting children and his trip to Rome to help pick the next pope."
* This was probably inevitable: "Prominent Republican lawmakers are standing behind a Christian-run arts and crafts chain in its lawsuit over the Obama administration's birth-control mandate. A group of 11 GOP members filed an amicus brief with the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday. The brief argued that the Obama mandate runs contrary to a federal law protecting religious practice" (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
* The religious right was not at all pleased with this video from "Saturday Night Live," which I have to admit, I found hilarious.
Leave a Comment:
On the issue of emergency funds paid to rebuild churches and synagogues:
I am an atheist and a secularist, a full on supporter of separation of church and state. But this to me is not a separation issue. The owner of a building needs hurricane relief money. What the purpose of the building is should be "transparent" to the government - unless it was an Al-Qaeda hangout or something. In other words, the funds should be paid out indiscriminately, without regard to "religious vs. secular" purpose. Otherwise, the end result is actually violating the separation doctrine: It is tacitly recognizing "non-religiousness" as a criteria for reparation.
Religion=Psychosis
Faithful=Believer=Psychotic
We need a return to being a God fearing country. A Lawrence Welk, strong defense, tough on crime, balanced budget, family values nation honey. This isn't the America I grew up on and its sad to watch it whither on the vine.
And yeah, Hollywood should not be worshiped. Fallen people who themselves are miserable shouldn't be looked to for policy for us!!! TMZ folks get a life!!! Entertain, sing ,dance, act, juggle, joke, and write but don't tell us what we "need" to do. Buncha dimwits!!
Lawrence Welk? Lawrence Welk? Really? That's the kind of country you want? Lily white (except for the token tap-dancer), saccharine, everything from hair length to dating practices strictly regulated, no room for self-expression? (By the way, if you close your eyes, his music was really good, he had great vocalists.) That country no longer exists. Black people are our equals now! They even get themselves elected to high office! You need to loosen up. It's OK, America is still good.
magnoliabelle, If you were black and lived in the South, you might have had a different take on how God fearing and wonderful America was in the fifties.
I never watched Lawrence Welk. I don't feel deprived at having missed that show.
I don't think we need to be so much a God-fearing country as a God-loving country and try a bit of the Golden Rule instead of all this nonsense we engage in. I understand that I am my brother's keeper, but more to the point, I am my brother's brother. That throws a very different light on it.
A keeper implies that I am superior to my brother. A brother's brother means we are equal. It implies that I love my brother as myself.
That SNL skit is a little gory. Is TRMS going "R"? If so, I expect skin.
psychotic = repulsed by glorified vigilantism
How's the heat now, Dorner?
"These folks can believe the separation of church and state is a communistic principle intended to undermine religiosity or they can believe the separation of church and state is a bedrock legal principle that guarantees and protects religious liberty for all. They cannot believe both."
But remember, this is the same bunch that believe they can somehow follow both Jesus and Ayn Rand without any conflict. And they're all too busy pointing out everyone else's sins (which is itself a sin!) to notice their own hypocricy.
Pity people do not take to heart the actual teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, such as the Law of the Prophets (aka the Golden Rule) and the Sermon on the Mount.
Unless someone can explain how forcing someone else's children to pray in the manner of your church is consistent with the Golden Rule...
Personally, I can think of no better way to tick people off, and I don't think 'Blessed are the trolls' is in the Gospel of Matthew.
Working on some writing, just wanted to wish everyone a great weekend.
Thanks, Tony. Good luck with your writing. Have a good weekend yourself.
I'm turning in. It's been a long day.
Thanks so much, India and back at ya.
So, if you were to boil the pope in water for 3 minutes would that make him Pope Benedict or just better off?
I think I apologize for that stupid question.
you forgot the english muffin and Hollandaise sauce. otherwise, no problem.
I get it that the lawyer is being a hypocrite-one hand they say that separation of church and state really doesn't exist (or shouldn't) on other hand sueing on those grounds for a yoga class(!)
but why seemingly gratuitiously drag in the ADF? I assume you mean the AntiDefemation League? Or am I mistaken. I could see no mention of ADF in the article before that and I dont' see what they have to do with it.
Anyone?
@ Laurali
From Rob Boston's linked article...."[Alan] Sears runs the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), the nation’s largest Religious Right legal group. "
Wrong ADF. Earlier in the thread, the discussion of religion in schools digressed to an info discussion on modern Pagans. ADF is also the acronym of a modern Druid organization - Ar n'Draiocht Fein - of which one of the discussion participants is a member. Your confusion is understandable. :)
Kansas girl,
Sorry about that digression. I am afraid that was my fault.
Re: Item 2 of the list above (about extending federal aids to churches/synagogues affected by Hurricane Sandy: These institutions don't pay taxes into federal coffers, so absolutely should NOT be given any federal money. Wondering how this 'fight' will go down in the public eye - this is likely part of House Republican calculations when they drafted the bill. Objections from vocal citizen opponents should come first (although elected reps who oppose will likely take heat as 'godless' anyway).
Been practicing yoga for 4 years. The instructor I go to emphasizes only the physical aspect of the practice. I once had an instructor who taught in the Orthodox Jewish community. She did several readings regarding the "eightfold path to bliss" as part of her instruction. Her audience objected to the "teaching" , saying that her statments were another religion which conflicted with theirs. This is kind of off point, but...
Just walked out, mid sermon from a guest Pastor from Texas. Mocking the big bang, Planck time, and non literalist biblical accounts of creation.
I made it very obvious walking out via the center aisle. Everyone has seen me do this over various subjects.
And they never say a word to me about it afterwards. It is as if they want to make it unreal- like the NFL alternate reality where players know about other players on their team being gay, but don't want anything to be made public.
This being quiet and making believe everyone is in agreement is nuts. It's driven by the nervous desperation for harmony but winds up destroying it.
John, I'd venture to say some more than noticed. While pompous diatribe is easily washed from the conscience, a dignified action as pure and unfiltered as a single ray of sunshine burns upon the same.
John, some DEFINITELY more than noticed.
As if etched into my conscience - that familiar burn - I'm off to do some yoga.
Re: #62
It is difficult to know what to do when you are sitting in the pew hearing words from the pulpit that you don't agree with - or that you find hurtful. (Been there!)
From your post, this has happened before. While it is none of my business, I am curious about a couple of things:
Who in your church picks visiting pastors?
You often have well-written and well-thought out posts. Have you ever communicated to them - or to the regular pastor - the reasons you walked out?
Why do you keep going to that church?
How a church handles controversy (or even if the church allows dissent / disagreement at all) demonstrates what kind of community it is. The big-bang theory or Planck time [note to self - google that term] might not be worth a big discussion, but literal vs non-literal interpretation of the Bible is a crucial topics.
The elders choose the visiting pastors. They only recently chose a permanent pastor so I hope these dark visitations from the South will become less common.
I have voiced my concerns to multiple elders, and today, I gave the head elder who has a divinity degree an earful about inviting idiots like this one. No- I did not word it that belligerently, but I communicated my strong emotion- that I was "livid" about it. I have told them I do not intend to become a member of the church until they declare that the church is not bound by the SBC creed (it bans women from the ministry and a number of other things). This is and atypical SBC church- most are non white, and there are multicultural elements (people speak of meditation, and there are oftentimes hula worship performance). Maybe three of the eight elders are white, and none are from the south.
I don't to go to church to listen to people I agree with but go to evangelize those I don't agree with. It is also good spiritual training for my Children- as they come up against some formidable spiritual issues at an early age. My personal view is that large numbers of the congregants are not Christians, though they profess themselves to be.
The operative word that should have sounded the alarm was, "from Texas".
If we have so called creationism taught in public schools in all fairness all beliefs must be given equal time too . Let's just say it is allowed why stop there let's also go into other areas of belief like Bigfoot/ UFOs /Ghosts! I say keep public education to basic knowledge and facts as we know them and keep religion in the place of worship and keep it out of politics too! I'm not against certain people choosing what they want to believe I know it wrong to shove it down the throats of students because its what they think is right.
PS Maybe all US currency should have on it In God We Trust or Gods or No God at all.
If St. Malachy is correct the next Pope will be the last. Does it mean the Catholic church would come to an end? I doubt it. Maybe the church will have a woman as its top dog perhaps seems men have been doing a poor job.
He may be the last pope because humans are emulating the frog that does not notice it is boiling to death by degrees. Global warming is coming to a venue near you as we speak.
<p>God? </p><p>When I was a young boy my family went to church every Sunday and Midnite Mass on Christmas. We gave thanks for the food we had to eat. We were even "nice" people, what I considered "real Christians". For that my Brother got cancer and suffered for two years in physical and mental pain and my Dad had a stroke and for the same two years slowly faded away. My mother some how kept herself sane caring for her husband and 1st born son, although shortly after they passed away she had what we called then a nervous breakdown. How she held herself together that long I don't know.</p>
<p>Some families lose sons, daughters, dad and mothers in time of war. Some families are lucky(?) and their loved ones come home. I'm sure most of those families prayed in the same way for the safe homecoming of their loved ones but only some of those prays were "answered".</p>
<p>People at odds with each other cut heads off, hands off, breasts off and nail children to the sides of buildings. Where is God?</p>
<p>When a tornado passes thru a neighborhood and all the homes are destroyed except for one we hear from the owners of the still standing house that "God saved their house". I doubt very much that only they were worthy enough to still have a roof over their heads.</p>
<p>Christians and Muslims have killed each other for thousands of years in the name of their "Gods". Protestants and Catholics have killed each other for hundreds of years over their same God because they believe in "him" just a little different.</p>
<p>People that are good people lose loved ones in accidents when the @!$%#s of society do not. There are people much more deserving of a comfortable life who's life sucks and others who deserve nothing and have everything.</p>
<p>For some reason I still do think there may be something after death because I feel that my Dad and Brother have had something to do with my life turning out as well as it has. I do not believe it is the Christian God, or the Muslim God or any other God made up by man. The earth is but one little speck of sand in the universe and there is far too much sadness that exist on it to prove to me that any god is listening to anyones prays. If there is any "superior being" or life force out there he is a hell of lot "bigger" than any God man has dreamt up. Why any individuals life turns out why it does, who knows. Maybe time will tell.</p>
To be brief, if this universe is possible, an infinite number of universes are possible, therefor anything possible is probably probable. Probably there is an afterlife from which your eternal self enjoys coming here to experience pain, uncertainty, hot/cold, ignorance, sexuality, frustration, loneliness, sadness, etc. Experiences not otherwise possible by an all knowing eternal being (soul) on the "other side. They, the other-siders, line up to come here.
One would only leave their creator's presence only with the promise of returning. In a sense the universe is driven by boredom/acclamation.
Really, Luz? Aren't you the pessimist! What about all the good things we enjoy as human beings?
Here's a thought: All human cravings are satisfied (or satisfiable) on Earth but one>immortality.
Jeezo, I think we'd both agree if given that there is an afterlife therefor immortality is a given. Christians claim that if you don't accept cheezus then you will spend your immortality burning in hell.
What I'm trying to rationalize above is based on a Near Death Experience some lady called in to a late night talk show on the radio. It was a pretty involved description which she ends telling how she ended up "melding" with the white light until she got Bored and then came back to earth to resume her life here. I do consider this a very accurate appraisal of what happens after death. Your eternal self can understand sadness and negative stuff while hang'n out on the other side but to experience it you best come here. So, poop, let's say your born with cystic fibrosis and yes your life probably sucks, but from an eternal perspective it was a blink of the eye and your back to hang'n with the creatoress and your other buds in a place that is really maybe tooo pleasant and probably lacking in (weirdly) privacy.
God? When I was a young boy my family went to church every Sunday and Midnite Mass on Christmas. We gave thanks for the food we had to eat. We were even "nice" people, what I considered "real Christians". For that my Brother got cancer and suffered for two years in physical and mental pain and my Dad had a stroke and for the same two years slowly faded away. My mother some how kept herself sane caring for her husband and 1st born son, although shortly after they passed away she had what we called then a nervous breakdown. How she held herself together that long I don't know.
Some families lose sons, daughters, dad and mothers in time of war. Some families are lucky(?) and their loved ones come home. I'm sure most of those families prayed in the same way for the safe homecoming of their loved ones but only some of those prays were "answered".
People at odds with each other cut heads off, hands off, breasts off and nail children to the sides of buildings. Where is God?
When a tornado passes thru a neighborhood and all the homes are destroyed except for one we hear from the owners of the still standing house that "God saved their house". I doubt very much that only they were worthy enough to still have a roof over their heads.
Christians and Muslims have killed each other for thousands of years in the name of their "Gods". Protestants and Catholics have killed each other for hundreds of years over their same God because they believe in "him" just a little different.
People that are good people lose loved ones in accidents when the @!$%#s of society do not. There are people much more deserving of a comfortable life who's life sucks and others who deserve nothing and have everything.
For some reason I still do think there may be something after death because I feel that my Dad and Brother have had something to do with my life turning out as well as it has. I do not believe it is the Christian God, or the Muslim God or any other God made up by man. The earth is but one little speck of sand in the universe and there is far too much sadness that exist on it to prove to me that any god is listening to anyones prays. If there is any "superior being" or life force out there he is a hell of lot "bigger" than any God man has dreamt up. Why any individuals life turns out why it does, who knows. Maybe time will tell.
Sounds like you have been exposed to the "Prosperity" doctrines of popular religious cable and radio preachers who want you to send in your "seed" money. Those guarantees of wealth, long earthly life, and health are not in the New Testament. Sadly, some contemporary religious denominations seem to have little to do with God.
#67 Adam
Their God is too small.
Gorguy #66,
"Where was God?" is the wrong question. Where was man?
You people are hilarious
Attorney Broyles appears to be a product of the Dominionist / Reconstructionist long range education program.
JD from Regent University School of Law, in Virginia Beach, Virginia
BA in sociology from Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California
[We should also add economists to that list.]
The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Principles for Political Action by George Grant, published in 1987 by Dominion Press. Page 130
http://www.nclplaw.org/about-us/dean-broyles/
"These folks can believe the separation of church and state is a communistic principle intended to undermine religiosity or they can believe the separation of church and state is a bedrock legal principle that guarantees and protects religious liberty for all. They cannot believe both."
Well, I'd normally attribute it to "Cognitive dissonance"; but the Wikipedia article says that it's a "feeling of discomfort when simultaneously holding two or more conflicting cognitions: ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions", and I get the impression that they only feel discomfort that some kind of vaguely odd and unfamiliar religious-ey-type "something that The Other does" is being "imposed" on them from On High and they don't like it one damn bit.