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Professional news organizations put a great deal of care into how they word polling questions. To get reliable results that accurately reflect public attitudes, surveys have to be careful not to guide respondents or skew their answers.
But Fox News polls tend to be a little different.
I remember the first time I marveled at a Fox News polling question. It was March 2007 and the network asked, in all seriousness, "Do you think the Democratic Party should allow a grassroots organization like Moveon.org to take it over or should it resist this type of takeover?" Soon after, another poll asked, "Do you think illegal immigrants from Mexico should be given special treatment and allowed to jump in front of immigrants from other countries that want to come to the United States legally, or not?"
In 2009, a Fox poll asked, "Do you think the United Nations should be in charge of the worldwide effort to combat climate change and the United States should report to the United Nations on this effort, or should it be up to individual countries and the United States would be allowed to make decisions on its own?"
And here's Fox News' latest gem, in a national poll published this morning:
"Former President George W. Bush stopped golfing after the start of the Iraq war. Do you think President Barack Obama should stop golfing until the unemployment rate improves and the economy is doing better?"
Oh my.
First, Bush claimed he gave up golf after the August 2003 bombing of the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad, which killed Sergio Vieira de Mello, the top U.N. official in Iraq. The claim, however, wasn't true. Second, presidential leisure activities have nothing to do with a war, or the economy for that matter.
And third, Obama's golf outings aren't stopping him from addressing the unemployment rate -- a rate that has already improved thanks in large part to the president's policies -- congressional Republicans are.
So why would a news outlet that claims to be legitimate put a polling question like this into the field? It's a question only Fox News can answer.
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They claim of being a news organization is meaningless. They are a conservative entertainment organization. And I use "entertainment" quite loosely.
Faux exists to do what GW Bush did when he tried to "privatize" Socual Security. Faux exists to "Catapult the propaganda."
Whenever I type "FOX News", I put "(sic)" immediately following it. FOX is not news and I express my knowledge of their mistake whenever I mention the organization.
The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism. They use every opportunity to impugn democracy. They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.
-- Vice President Henry Wallace in an op-ed in the New York Times, April 9, 1944
FOX 'News' shocks you with their audacity,
And have BIG problems with their veracity,
But, concerning the drama
Of how they hate Obama,
You have to admire their tenacity...
#1.3...
For those who would like to read more...
BTW... I believe the word Wallace was trying to say was "subjugation", not "subjection"...
Republican thought process:
"How dare he be relaxing when we....I mean HE, is throwing the country in an economic rest?!"
Meanwhile, former President Bush took more vacation time than any other President, and I do not remember hearing them complain about that.
Reagan's Santa Barbara ranch came to be known as the Western White House for a reason. He was quite fond of 'clearing brush' too.
It's a pretty sweet deal, there's a law that allows tax dollars to be spent to make improvements to the President's private property for security and logistical purposes.
Curiously, Lyndon Johnson was the last President from the 'taker' party to take advantage of the public's largesse.
Hold on, I support almost every thing i read on this blog but doesn't Ed have the same kind of polls every night? Let's not over react to something we do too.
Ed doesn't really pretend to be a journalist. He is more of an activist provateur.
Well, altogether I'm not sure MSNBC is any less a cheerleader for the cause. But I don't think the channel claims to be a "news" channel, whereas Fox News does.
He's not claiming to be a true "national" poll; he is just polling his listeners.
Yes, Ed's polls are ridiculously lopsided and I wish he'd stop with them. It's easily the weakest part of his show.
My thoughts exactly. Ed's polls are terrible. They're silly and fun, but effectively just as useless as Fox's poll here.
I agree with Amon Walters. Ed's "polls" only serve to keep his audience engaged. But they're terrible practice for a show like his. He should either make them serious questions, or drop them. Nothing will make them scientific, but they can at least have some legitimacy.
Ed's polls remind me of Lou Dobbs polls when he was on CNN. I like Ed's show but the poll is biased, as bad as Fox polls.
The difference is that Ed's polls only go out on Ed's show. I suspect that most people take them for what they are, which is another way to make the main point he is pushing on that show. Nobody tries to report them as news.
He could also give up peanut butter, bathing and sex. It won't make the GOP come back to the table with a fair plan. So, you just keep playing golf. Mr President. FORE!
Shea...
Give up sex? With Michelle???
Not bloody likely...
How about polling the question "Should Congress work more than 3 days a week and should they stay in session when there is a looming financial crisis?". Ooops, sorry, forgot who we were talking about. That's a legitimate question that has no business being asked by Faux News. Pffft....what was I thinking?
Should John Boenher be required to leave the alcohol and golf alone until the economy is better, the non-Fox charts showing US economic improvement would gain a sudden validity in the House.
Thank you!!! Beautifully stated!!!
Missy, NeedMore
Great polling questions!
Boehner should be required to abstain from cigarettes every time he talks to the White House, then he'll really negotiate! Each session would last five minutes.
Really? FOX wants to bring up presidents golfing?
"Now watch this drive!" - George W. Bush
Yeah, I remember that sound bite too.
Bush stopped golfing because he had mastered it, just like he mastered diplomacy, economics, humanities and composure!
That's exactly why they are bringing it up. Bush got
criticizedvictimized in the past, so now we go to false equivalences. Is this one closer to reality than say, Benghazi = WMD in Iraq? Maybe. But it's just the same symptom of the victimized mindset.Also note that this question conflicts with the habit of criticizing opponents for bringing up Bush. Did Fox News acquire the licensing rights for Bush? Is it only not okay when the Bush connection is one you don't like?
And bike riding, and eating pretzels and sitting through dinners without upchucking on dignitaries...
Obama needs to buy a ranch and go there three weeks out of the month to "cut brush" just so it doesn't LOOK like a vacation.
NeedMore...
That was Poppy Bush, not W...
Golf. It's the new teleprompter.
You have to look at this story from the perspective of your average Fox News viewer-you know angry old white men. Golf is a White Man's game. Yea, the PGA let's Tiger Woods and other blacks play golf, but it is only recently that blacks have been allowed to join many whites only country clubs and then only because the lame stream media and the libural govermut forced it.
Didn't they just let Condi into Augusta?
And anyone who knows much about W is aware of the fact that he took MORE vacation days than any other President. This while we were engaged in two wars.
Most FOX viewers probably believe W never took one vacation day.
That really is not too far from the truth. You tell a regular Fox News Viewer that Bush 43 spent more time on vacay than any modern day President. And they will flat out say "That's a Liberal Media Lie." For whatever reason, the right has yet to grasp the concept; that spending a quarter billion on gas, to fly AF1 to his ranch in Texas, were indeed vacation days he took.
W who?
Yup, this is dumb and manipulative.
But have you seen some of the polls The Ed Show does? Also dumb and manipulative, and not quite so imaginative.
No, Ed just polls his listeners. He's not claiming any true national polling.
Regardless, my point stands that Ed's polls are also dumb and manipulative.
I made no assertions concerning sampled populations or how the results are touted.
As with most of your other "equivalencies" and "both sides do it" comments, Just John, your head is obviously planted firmly up your ass. Please remove it and turn your brain on before participating. Thank you.
@TConLA
Citation? Please point out at least two "both sides do it" comments made by me,
Until then, I brand you LIAR.
My posts here are all there to see, LIAR. Give me examples, LIAR.
By the way, to see my comments, click on the "just-john" at the top left of my posts. Then scroll downward past the articles part. That should get you to all my comments here, including the two that have been quoted on The Rachel Maddow Show itself.
Ed's "polls" are idiotic, and a disgrace to our side.
Should FOX NEWS stop calling itself a 'news organization' until it actually reports the 'news'? I WANT A POLL.
Faux Fake and BS Gnewz should be on comedy central, but the problem is, they aren't even funny.
Well I am a little confiseed Fox news was repoting that the attacks in Bengazi were terroist attacks the day after. MSNBC CNN etc ect Susan Rice were repoting it to be an angry mob. Now the actual fact is that it was a terroist attack and MSNBC CNN Susan Rice etc etc were flat out wrong. Now I am not some super educated book smart person but Fox news was the only one that was right. So forgive me if I point out the actualt fact that you all are full of chit because the actualy facts proves it. After MSNBC got that wrong with all the rest of the news and even Susan Rice I would say you are all full of chit. My god people try checking some facts for a change.
Very interesting. Just how did Fox know that the attack in Benghazi was a terrorist attack and not just a riot? The CIA and other intel agencies weren't certain about that until more than a day later, which was why Rice and others used the briefing the CIA wrote up.
Strange that, isn't it? How could Fox know something that the CIA didn't?
Rachel Maddow was one of the first to note that the Benghazi attack might be more than merely a mob protest. However, that does not negate the inflammatory nature of the video whose release resulted in mob protests + attacks on US embassies from North Africa to East Asia. And protests occurred all over the world. It's easy to see how a planned attack could be mistaken for just another out-of-control protest. Unless you're heel bent on blaming Obama for everything.
From Wikipedia:
"Protests at diplomatic missions
"Widespread protests followed screening of excerpts of the trailer in Egypt. Many of the protests were focused on United States embassies and consular posts, with some leading to violent confrontations."
The map didn't copy but Wiki had a link to a similar map:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201645180959880549419.0004c9a894dfb66defab9&msa=0
Actualy it is called reporting and the fact that the Libya ruler stated it as well. Also it was the anniversary of 9-11 in which even ray Charles could see it was a terroist attack. In fact Chris Mathews (MSNBC) was still calling it a mob reaction right up to he election. Its not starnge at all because the CIA new it as well. The attackers were using rocket launchers and heavy duty weapons which indicated a planned attack. See FOX had investigating reporters over there asking question and checking it out. If you might remember even Obama admitted during the debates that he knew it was a terroist attack the next day.The only ones who didnt know were msnbc cnn etc etc becasue they did no investigating like FOX did.
Well, all those rugged "I did it myself" - ers need someone to blame when things aren't working out for them. Makes 'em feel better thinking there's a barrier in the way and makes 'em feel superior when that thought can be answered on national tv. Funny how these people think that someone else giving up something they like to do will somehow improve situations.
Fox loves the Second Amendment so much, even their questions are loaded.
I would have to say yes, I strongly believe that the fate of the republic rests on whether the President should wear funny clothes and swear like a sailor occasionally.
What I want to know is when did the Fox crew stop beating their spouses.
"Do you think Fox News lies about everything, or do you think they just don't tell the truth about anything?
The larger point is polls are an utter waste of time. The public is woefully ignorant of just about everything.
But they are a great way for "news" organizations to avoid doing any real work.
Oh, their listenership knows what they're told, Day, and repeat it verbatim. It's Fox's job to make sure they hear the "right" things...
Give me the leeway to write the preamble statement and I'll give you whatever survey response you're looking for.
For example, "Successive national surveys show that the more faithfully that viewers follow Fox News, the more ignorant and ill-informed they are of basic facts of the nation's current events and politics. So, over the next three months, how regularly do you expect to watch Fox News Channel?..."
Can anyone win an award by polling with loaded questions?
Newsmax is a good candidate
Depends on who is giving the award...
TEA Party Association, likely... Pulitzer, not so much...
Fox is performing push polling -- a tactic that is used by certain unethical political organizations. It's unethical assuming that they're attempting this polling on the general public.
Otherwise, if it's just their viewers or online users, it's merely unseemly cheerleading -- unfortunately like Ed Schultz's polls in too many cases (I sometimes am uncomfortable with those).
Indeed. It's propaganda masked as a poll.
Which is why it's national and not just for their viewers.
We've gone from the Gulf war to the golf war
thanx fox!
Nicely played. ;-)
At least it wasn't a birdie from the bunker...
The first time I heard people complaining about Presidential golf, the President was Eisenhower.
Golf is my religion. It irks me to no end that the major players in golf refuse to engage this obvious knock on our game and our POTUS. Golf is disgustingly conservative for a game based on honesty. A PGA Tour player will call a penalty on himself that costs him a tournament, but he won't stand up for the POTUS regardless of politics? The Golf Channel never peeps a word about this, which makes them impotent IMHO.
My favorite were the ones where a viewer would call up the TV station to point out that a player had broken the rules.
Outside of you, what kind of white conservative morons do you think watch the Golf channel?
They call that a push poll. Considering how every president seems to age rapidly before our eyes while doing this job, I would think the man should be entitled to a golf game or two. And gee, let's not get into the game of counting how many days of vacation this man has taken.......
An Obama round of golf lasts three hours. Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, spent weeks on end at their ranches or oceanfront estates.
Fox don't report news, they make news everytime they take sides with a political party. I wouldn't mind it if they said they were an opinion network because that is what I see MSNBC as also, but at least on MSNBC there is a chance I will hear both sides of things. On Fox it is Fox and hyper-fox.
I think the president should stop golfing with men that do not respect women. I also think he should find a sport he is comfortable playing with women. It is time for him to set an example that the boys club is a relic.
That would have been great to see Barack and Hillary play a round.
Patti- what makes you think that golf is not played by women? Who are these men that don't respect women, who are playing with the President? I love golf. It's a physical and mental challenge which changes every time you play the game, regardless of whether you ever go to more than one course. It's a game with handicaps, to even out the scoring and make it challenging for people of all skill levels. There's a woman's tee for a reason.
What sport would you recommend? Croquet? Badminton? Table Tennis? Lawn Darts? Pretty much every sport has highly competitive women in it.
Patti
My grandmother lived on Tamrisk golf course so she could golf. My mother played golf too. Babe Didrickson was one of the greatest golfers ever and she was a woman. Obama just needs to find better golf partners.