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In some ways, it's the most important story in the world. The CIA has launched 20 drone attacks against the Taliban in Pakistan so far this month, the New York Times reports, more than in any other month and twice the typical amount.

Last night on the show, Rachel Maddow asked Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. special representative to Pakistan and Afghanistan, whether the American drone campaign amounts to war. "Rachel, war really is hell," Holbrooke said. She pressed him, saying, "Is it war in Pakistan?"

Holbrooke's answer, in essence: You know what you know.

You've seen it. War in the western part of Pakistan? Thousands and thousands of Pakistanis have been killed by the Pakistani Taliban - thousands. Those are the people who trained the Times Square bomber.

The al-Qaeda is sitting up there. The Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani are sitting up there, killing Americans, attacking the Indian embassy. These are really bad people. You mentioned Miranshah in your opening remarks. Miranshah is one of the headquarters of one of the groups
that kills a lot of Americans.

If you're in a war, you can't -- you can't kid yourself about it. I've seen a lot of wars. I hate them more than anything you can imagine. But in this particular case, as the president has said repeatedly, our own homeland security is directly involved.

[America's third war]

White House photo

Man, when the White House gets ready to sell you as the greatest, they don't mess around. Here's the (de-typoed) announcement for Jack Lew as the new (and returning) director of the Office of Management and Budget:

Lew, who already has outstanding experience in the position under the Clinton Administration, has been serving in the State Department under President Obama. During his time under President Clinton, 11 million jobs were created, and the federal budget was balanced for the first time since Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. An inherited $290 billion deficit was turned around, and resulted in a more than $236 billion surplus at the end of 2000.

In our conversation yesterday with Richard Holbrooke yesterday, the first since Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, the U.S. special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan also heaped praise on new OMB director. As a deputy secretary of state, Mr. Holbrooke said, Lew tripled the civilian diplomatic presence in the region. More?

"If he's confirmed, it's a tremendous loss for us because he filled a job that had never been filled before, never existed. The second deputy secretary of state focused entirely on resources and management. He brought to that job six years as head of the office and management under President Clinton.

"In the State Department, it was tremendously complicated because this is a hard place to manage. He also worked with AID. He was my closest collaborator -- still is my closest collaborator in this building. He did a tremendously important job in helping us get the resources to do the civilian effort in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

"But it goes far beyond that. Jack had changed the building, and it was a brilliant decision by Hillary Clinton to bring him into the building. Now it's totally logical that he goes to OMB. It makes absolute sense. He's head and shoulders the best candidate for that job, just as Gen. Petraus was the best candidate to replace Gen. McChrystal, but we will need to fill in behind him.

"He assured me, when called me to tell me what's going on, that if he's confirmed he will spend a lot of time supporting Afghanistan and Pakistan from OMB. So the U.S. government comes out ahead in this thing, because he is coming back into the cabinet and, as Secretary Clinton, said he's been an indispensable person in this building. If he's confirmed it's going to be a great loss for us, but it's the best thing for the U.S."

Photos by Rebekah Dryden

Today's preshow reading comes courtesy of Lauren McGaughy, a reporter for the Asahi Shimbun America, who tweeted, "Just saw Rachel #Maddow in the bathroom at the State Dept! Awesome...albeit embarrassing!"

She had indeed seen our host, getting ready to interview Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan. McGaughy recommends this Foreign Policy article about Mr. Holbrooke. It asks whether the ambassador is indeed on the way out as Gen. McChrystal's aides told Rolling Stone.

The answer appears to be not so fast:

Experts say Holbrooke's long, personal relationship with [Secretary of State Hillary] Clinton affords him a measure of job security. And his involvement in the joint Afghanistan-Pakistan effort to figure out how to engage the Taliban also makes him indispensible in the near term.

"Holbrooke is very deeply invested in the idea of a reintegration program," said Teresita Schaffer, director of the South Asia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

"He is still the center of the universe on decisions in the U.S. government as far as Pakistan is concerned," Shaffer said.

More pics, after the jump.

[Foreign Policy]
[Lauren McGaughy's take on Mr. Holbrooke]

Rachel laughing as EP Matt Saal shows her the time cues.

NBC producer Courtney Kube.

Before the interview begins.

Hey! It's @newmediajim

The interview.